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 Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 19:38

Back 4 tonight. Clarke usually goes with the three centre halfs. Maybe injuries at CH have forced his hand. McKenna and Hendry need to gel…..hopefully.
But it is a game under the lights and we usually perform much better at night…..



Post Edited (Wed 21 Sep 19:40)
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 20:38

That was ashocking challenge on Adams, merited a Red in my opinion for violent conduct.

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: NikNakPar  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 20:39

Red card all day long
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 20:40

Quote:

NikNakPar, Wed 21 Sep 20:39

Red card all day long


Unbelievable. Cynical and dangerous.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 20:41

I don`t know why the ref looked so pleased with himself.



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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 20:43

Good game, decent tempo, Ukraine a wee bit lucky we`re no` one up.

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 21:17

Three gilt-edged chances in quick succession: unlucky none o` them went in. Armstrong over the bar, Adams hits the bar, goalie saves the third. My heart`s still racin` a bit fae that flurry.

And another one. Could`ve been 3 or 4 nil! Unlucky Scotland, playing with heart and skill.



Post Edited (Wed 21 Sep 21:19)
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 21:20

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL!!!!!!!!!!! McGinn

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 21:28

Yassssssss
2-0

”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 21:30

Dykes header 2-0 !!!!!!!!!!!!

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 21:32

In a bar in Tenerife, pub next door on a different feed,they score 3 minutes before the TV in our bar does.
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 21:35

3-0!!!!!!

”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 21:36

You`d hardly believe an international team could be so poor at defending corners.

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 21:36

Yeehoodydoody! Dykes again wi` oor third.



Post Edited (Wed 21 Sep 21:46)
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 21:39

Pity Scotland couldn`t do this in world cup qualifier....
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 21:40

Quote:

moviescot, Wed 21 Sep 21:39

Pity Scotland couldn`t do this in world cup qualifier....


Why the need to mention that?! Weird.

Excellent performance and result

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 21:50

We can play. Ukraine were good first half. We played as a team, moved it well, the confidence from us was amazing. And I enjoyed the commentary from Coisty and Sam? (/English bloke). I never expected such a treat tonight. Fab entertainment.



Post Edited (Wed 21 Sep 21:52)
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 21:52

Great performance and a thoroughly deserved win.

The comparison between this game and the last one against them was like……………….night and day….🤓

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: RossF  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 21:55

Just shows he good we can be. Not one player went missing tonight everyone was exceptional. I thought Patterson going off injured would affect us but Hickey was phenomenal. We have to keep this going. This team can play. You thought we were gonna struggle to score with the chances we had but then they came like buses. Clarke`s subs were spot on tonight. You can see what a difference Zinchenko makes to that Ukraine squad as we dominated their midfield tonight. 3-0 flattered Ukraine. Let`s hope we can keep this going. Robertson would struggle to get back into this squad as we surely have to scrap the 5 at the back now!

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 22:16

Quote:

da_no_1, Wed 21 Sep 21:40

Quote:

moviescot, Wed 21 Sep 21:39

Pity Scotland couldn`t do this in world cup qualifier....


Why the need to mention that?! Weird.

Excellent performance and result


Because by level of importance this is way below the world cup qualifier. Once again performing when there is less pressure on them.

Let`s hope this is a permanent improvement and not another false dawn.
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: Level par  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 22:33

I think the comparisons to the game in June are a little unfair in fact I’d say circumstances almost were reversed for tonight’s fixture.

It couldn’t be underestimated how well drilled, organised and fit the Ukrainians were for the World Cup qualifier. The war almost acted as a cruel twist of fate as it allowed the majority of the squad to be like a club side and train together for weeks on end, play friendly’s with the overseas star men seamlessly fitting in to the team as the season throughout Europe came to a close. We on the other hand that day seemed leggy in comparison and were unable to match the tempo they played at.

Tonight, roles reversed and we looked the fresher the longer the game went with the Ukrainians only just getting going in a closed door league season.

The reality in my opinion is that we are two very closely matched sides which may be more apparent come Next week. Fingers crossed all we need is a draw as that will be the likely outcome in my opinion

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 22:34

I`m happy as Larry anyway. And all I`m drinkin` is a bottle o` `Innocent Wonder Green` - a weird fruit and veg juice concoction (cheap from Heron) It reminds me of stagnant pond water, but I`m convinced it`s good for me.

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 22:37

Quote:

moviescot, Wed 21 Sep 22:16

Quote:

da_no_1, Wed 21 Sep 21:40

Quote:

moviescot, Wed 21 Sep 21:39

Pity Scotland couldn`t do this in world cup qualifier....


Why the need to mention that?! Weird.

Excellent performance and result


Because by level of importance this is way below the world cup qualifier. Once again performing when there is less pressure on them.

Let`s hope this is a permanent improvement and not another false dawn.


What a miserable hoor

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 23:03

Was a perfectly reasonable comment I thought tbh….we have after all seen many false dawns…nothing miserable about it….

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 23:37

Well there`s a shock......

The thread is about tonight`s game. Not last Junes` which was disappointing obviously but is well in the past.

I wouldn`t want you two anywhere near a team of mine p1ssing on everyones` chips. Be positive and good things will happen.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Wed 21 Sep 23:52

So your not allowed to make any comparisons? We are not restricted by the OP. How boring it would be if we were……It’s a football forum.

The real false dawn was you being reasonable….in one post…..a few days ago, but I see you have reverted back to your argumentative, condescending self again…

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: bannerpar  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 00:16

That`s as good a team performance as I`ve seen in years from Scotland and, as said above, no failures in the team. You never know what you`re going to get from any Scotland game so it`s fingers crossed for Saturday.

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 00:37

Great performance and can`t wait to attend on Saturday night. Place will be rocking.
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: SusieQ  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 01:49

Crucial difference in the 2 games imo - we had 2 months of everyone telling us we should forfeit / wanting us to lose. The players looked like they didn`t know how to play that match (and it would have been entirely different had the game been played as originally planned). Interesting that no one suggested the same of Wales once Ukraine beat us.

In fact I distinctly remember the commentator suggesting sympathy "but this is football" - we were never afforded such sentiment 🤔

Superb second half tonight - only 1 team in it after about 20 mins & we should have been playing 10 men after that shocking assault on Adams.

Roll on Saturday 👏🏼🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿👍🏼


COME ON YE PARS!
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 06:46

In the last 13 games Scotland have lost 2 - an unprecedented run of form for the Scotland national team in all of our lifetimes and apparently the form team in Europe.

The most important thing though, is to still find negatives 👏🏼🤦🏻‍♂️


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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 06:53

Quote:

desparado, Wed 21 Sep 23:52

So your not allowed to make any comparisons? We are not restricted by the OP. How boring it would be if we were……It’s a football forum.

The real false dawn was you being reasonable….in one post…..a few days ago, but I see you have reverted back to your argumentative, condescending self again…


His original comment made no mention of how well we played last night, only that we were poor in June. Quite common on here to only focus on the negative and thats what provokes me into reacting in the way I do. I really don`t know why I bother.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 06:53

Quote:

P, Thu 22 Sep 06:46

In the last 13 games Scotland have lost 2 - an unprecedented run of form for the Scotland national team in all of our lifetimes and apparently the form team in Europe.

The most important thing though, is to still find negatives 👏🏼🤦🏻‍♂️


Exactly. Well said. Really looking forward to Saturday night now.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 06:55

Quote:

SusieQ, Thu 22 Sep 01:49

Crucial difference in the 2 games imo - we had 2 months of everyone telling us we should forfeit / wanting us to lose. The players looked like they didn`t know how to play that match (and it would have been entirely different had the game been played as originally planned). Interesting that no one suggested the same of Wales once Ukraine beat us.

In fact I distinctly remember the commentator suggesting sympathy "but this is football" - we were never afforded such sentiment 🤔

Superb second half tonight - only 1 team in it after about 20 mins & we should have been playing 10 men after that shocking assault on Adams.

Roll on Saturday 👏🏼🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿👍🏼


Another great post. We had the footballing world against us in June. Folk really need to see the bigger picture sometimes

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 07:17

Quote:

bannerpar, Thu 22 Sep 00:16

That`s as good a team performance as I`ve seen in years from Scotland and, as said above, no failures in the team. You never know what you`re going to get from any Scotland game so it`s fingers crossed for Saturday.


Aye, that performance reminded me of the Scotland team at Hampden in the 60s and 70s, the way they set about the opposition. Always on the front foot, working tirelessly, looking to create scoring chances. A thoroughly deserved 3 pts.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 07:47

"Back 4 tonight. Clarke usually goes with the three centre halfs."

The back 3 is more to get Tierney and Robertson into the side than anything else.

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: halbe  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 09:19

Played well last night. Clarke got his team selection right for this one but going to be hard to forget the shambles of his team selection and tactics for the June game that removed us from the world cup...



Post Edited (Thu 22 Sep 09:44)
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 09:33

If we win on Saturday and at least a draw we go up to the Bg Boy group A teams.
As the big teams don’t take it so seriously, we go and win the Nations Cup and be proud of our achievement.

Oh wait, I just woke up.
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 09:35

It will be hard to forget it if folk keep reminding us of it...

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 09:51

Quote:

wee eck, Thu 22 Sep 09:35

It will be hard to forget it if folk keep reminding us of it...


Wasting your time Eck

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: EastEndTales  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 09:58

Summere was a horrific disgrace against them and Ireland. Last night`s score doesn`t fix that, but it`s still encouraging.

Episode 2 of East End Tales is out with Jim Leishman!

https://eastendtales.buzzsprout.com/
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 10:02

Topic Originator: Lambo1885 like
Date: Thu 22 Sep 07:47

"Back 4 tonight. Clarke usually goes with the three centre halfs."

The back 3 is more to get Tierney and Robertson into the side than anything else.

That’s true Lambo. Be interesting to see what he does when Robertson is fit again…

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 10:51

`Summere was a horrific disgrace against them and Ireland. Last night`s score doesn`t fix that, but it`s still encouraging.`

Nothing will fix it. It`s done, finished, kaput - whatever you want to call it. In football it`s all about the next game which you can influence. Why do so many fans hark back to the past? They always want someone to blame and, if someone makes a mistake, they`re not allowed to forget it. It`s the same on here with the Pars. If we get promoted this season you can be sure somebody will post `We should never have been in League 1 in the first place`.

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 11:18

Good to see us being pro-active and closing them down high up the park from the off.Definite positives on our side but wouldn`t be getting too carried away.I thought Ukraine were poor, perhaps understandably with the continued uncertainty,their league having only recently started after 8 months off and Zinchenko and a few others being out.
All that being said you can only beat what is in front of you and will be interesting to see if we can replicate it against Ireland on Saturday.
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 12:19

Not having Robertson available, maybe was a blessing, as the new formation proved to be effective, especially second half?

It will be interesting to see what he does when they are both available?

Shoehorning both in to the side, reminds me of a few England managers who tried to accommodate both Lampard and Gerrard




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: RossF  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 12:31

As much as I want to forget about the last Ukraine game we have to remember that Wales didn`t suffer that from that mind setting. We were poor that day and we were not tonight. Hopefully we learned from that. I think the formation change surprised Ukraine tonight. Ireland is a massive game at the weekend and if we win I think we will top the group as I have a feeling Armenia could take something off Ukraine.



Post Edited (Thu 22 Sep 12:32)
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 12:40

No point looking back. Circumstances were odd and we coped with them badly, but it was only a semi-final. If we`d got through, we would have been underdogs against Wales also. And then the WC is in Qatar, and in the winter.

We were great last night, and have been in other games over the last year or so. We now have a Euros to try and qualify for, which is very realistic. It is also in Germany, so is guaranteed to be a great tournament - and one where the focus can be firmly on the football.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: EastEndTales  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 12:47

Football? Too much beer to focus on distractions like that.

Episode 2 of East End Tales is out with Jim Leishman!

https://eastendtales.buzzsprout.com/
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 12:54

ref: GG Riva
Date: Thu 22 Sep 07:17

"Aye, that performance reminded me of the Scotland team at Hampden in the 60s and 70s, the way they set about the opposition. Always on the front foot, working tirelessly, looking to create scoring chances. A thoroughly deserved 3 pts"



------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much this. I nearly posted, during the match, how it was like watching Scotland in the sixties - the way we got at them, and the confidence we had, to move the ball quickly and press and attack with good penetration. I thought Ukraine were very good in the first half - I couldn`t help thinking they were like a sixties team as well - they reminded me of the mighty Celtic team at EEP in `68, breaking at speed in waves, three or four of them all at once. I think their heads only went down after the second goal. Before that they were breaking with pace and skill - they just lacked a cutting edge.



Post Edited (Thu 22 Sep 21:05)
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: back oh the net  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 14:06

Quote:

moviescot, Wed 21 Sep 21:39

Pity Scotland couldn`t do this in world cup qualifier....


pity you fail to acknowledge the fact that Ukraine had a 4 and a bit month rest before that game where as that game came right at the back of our domestic season in the uk had our players had even a months rest leading up to the playoffs we would have wiped the floor with them then as well

Come on ye pars ⚽️
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 15:43

is that all it was backonet?
so if they had hadn`t a rest we would have pumped them 3-0 last time?

so it`s a fair question... why did we look so good this time round compared to last time - and more importantly, how can we learn from it.

was it simply fatigue and if so, what are we going to do next time we`re all tired?

was it simply formation and if so, why did this formation work when the last time it didn`t (even though we were on a good run of form back then?)

was it that we played the occasion and not the game? someone earlier on said we didn`t do it when it mattered - so maybe there`s something in that and we need to look collectively at how as a team we don`t get sucked into the pressure of what winning or losing could mean and just focus on our game - we`re always going to have moments where it really, really matters, so what can we learn from last time to make sure we`re mentally prepared

I`m not saying we should wallow in our defeats and always look for the cloud... but equally, I don`t think you can just write off losses and ignore them, because if you don`t look back and reflect, then you`ll never learn from them

anyway - good news is that we`re back on the horse and hopefully can show Ireland a thing or two

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 16:05

Doesn`t last night`s performance suggest Clarke and his squad did learn something from the last game against Ukraine? Also, this squad has shown in the past they can perform under pressure eg the play-off against Serbia including the penalty shoot-out.

Some things in football just can`t be explained despite the best efforts of the pundits. Why did we start so poorly last Saturday in a game the players knew meant so much to the fans and which they gave the impression they were `up for` in the pre-match build-up?

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 16:22

The previous game came after a long hard season. The whole team looked far fresher and sharper than the last encounter.

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 17:50

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Thu 22 Sep 12:19

Not having Robertson available, maybe was a blessing, as the new formation proved to be effective, especially second half?


Also felt that the boy not getting a red for the assault on Adams was a disgrace but probably a blessing as Ukraine would have probably had to change things to be much more defensive.
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 18:05

Quote:

JTH123, Thu 22 Sep 17:50

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Thu 22 Sep 12:19

Not having Robertson available, maybe was a blessing, as the new formation proved to be effective, especially second half?


Also felt that the boy not getting a red for the assault on Adams was a disgrace but probably a blessing as Ukraine would have probably had to change things to be much more defensive.


Ironic he was the boy who McGinn arsed out the road for the goal. The irony of them complaining that he`d been fouled 😁😁

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 19:52

Quote:

JTH123, Thu 22 Sept 17:50

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Thu 22 Sep 12:19

Not having Robertson available, maybe was a blessing, as the new formation proved to be effective, especially second half?


Also felt that the boy not getting a red for the assault on Adams was a disgrace but probably a blessing as Ukraine would have probably had to change things to be much more defensive.


Loved the quote last night about how it wasn`t a red but was more than a yellow 😂

Adams was going at some pace so it was a hard one to judge.
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 22:14

IMHO it was a clear red for endangering an opponent. When you saw how Adams` head was thrown back by the impact and the big bump on the boys cheek it was a cert for me.
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 22:21

There has to be some rationalisation of the "professional foul". There is nothing professional about it. It is blatant cheating and spoils the game as a spectacle. And yet it is glorified by commentators, including Kenny Miller. "Taking one for the team" has become a virtue. Last night`s tackle was deliberate, cynical and an act of violence. Every time, in the modern game, when a player makes a surging run from midfield, it can be expected that he will be illegally stopped by foul means. Che Adams was "wiped out", stopped dead in his tracks when he was running at pace. How that can be considered as anything less than a red card shows how much our values of sporting competition has deteriorated and the rules are long overdue a radical change. It has taken a dimension out of our game that once existed and we no longer have.

It certainly lessened my appreciation of the Ukrainian team and made me all the more pleased that we won 3-0 against their 11, which should have been 10 men.



Post Edited (Thu 22 Sep 22:25)
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 23 Sep 06:49

^^^^^ Good post, Paralex.

The term "professional foul" was first used on TV by Liverpool`s Phil Thompson, who was incandescent with rage after his foul on John O`Hare, just outside the box, resulted in the award of a match winning penalty for Nottingham Forest in the 1978 League Cup final. Thompson`s admission, that he had he had deliberately taken out his opponent to prevent a clear goalscoring opportunity, was met with sharply contrasting views in the football world. On one side there were those who were appalled at Thompson`s cynicism and callous disregard for the Olympic sporting ideal, on the other, mainly embraced by his fellow professionals, the opinion that he had been perfectly within his rights to "take one for the team" and that he`d acted within the laws of the game.

Of course that law has now been changed and is punishable with a red card. At the time, many commentators described the foul as a "moral penalty" and Thompson was roundly condemned for his description of his cynical foul, but the term is still widely used over 40 years later, suggesting that it is generally accepted as part and parcel of the modern game.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: Bucuresti Par  
Date:   Fri 23 Sep 14:49

My issue with professional fouls is not so much that they exist, I don`t think we can go back in time and eradicate this tactic now, but more the inconsistency in how referees respond to them. For me, any deliberate `tactical` foul should be a yellow card, it is reckless/violent then a straight red. Far too often players are given just a warning (especially if it`s early in the game). If you make no attempt to play the ball and deliberately foul an opponent it should be a yellow, doesn`t matter how you do this (shirt pull, trip etc). If players were always booked for this, then clearly, after the first yellow, they`d have pretty much lost the option.

Another gripe, another offence that damages the spectacle is kicking/throwing the ball away after it has gone out or after the player`s team has conceded a foul. From memory, this was always a yellow card years ago, nowadays players are allowed to kick the ball a little, or pick it up for a while...Why? You do not have possession, don`t touch the ball (unless you actually give it back, a very rare sporting gesture these days). This would also be an automatic yellow for me.

And time wasting... why do goalkeepers in particular get a warning (normally several) they know the rules, give them a yellow, do it twice, and then your off...and then I think we would see a lot less of this.

Now I am ranting...why do referees need to warn players about shirt pulling at corners as well?

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Fri 23 Sep 22:02

The game is morphing into rugfootbyball.

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Fri 23 Sep 22:06

That was a poorly executed rugby tackle ffs. Ignore the `last man` stuff, that was a red anywhere
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Fri 23 Sep 23:15

I don`t agree - a booking was the right decision for me. Most of the force of the impact was because Adams was running so quickly, rather than because the defender went into him at speed. It`s certainly a foul, but I don`t think that`s bad enough to be classed as serious foul play. I`ll say well done to the referee for making the right decision, when it would have been easy to make the wrong call.

As for taking one for the team, it`s a concept of which I entirely approve. In football, the team is all that matters, and you should always do whatever is necessary for the benefit of the team. You can stick your Corinthian spirit - I often applaud our players when they take a yellow in the right circumstances for stopping a break.

One of my pet hates in football is the complete opposite - defenders often have fouls given against them for standing still while an attacking player runs into them. Similar to this example, they tend to look worse than they are.

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 00:16

Red card all day long. Cynical and dangerous.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 00:34

I think in rugby a penalty try is awarded in such circumstances. In fitba` I`d like to see the punishment fit the crime - not only send the player off for a professional foul but also award a goal. It might not stop players trying it - as one of the Ross County players did to our man a few years ago (in a 2-2 cup match?) and got away with it. I think the stakes are too low against the offender. Just getting a yellow, or even being sent off isn`t enough. Award a goal as well. Of course refereeing fitba` is different to rugby. I dunno why though. I don`t see any reason why fitba`refs have to be soft. And I`m pretty sure in rugby matches even without TMO, refs do award penalty tries on their own judgement.



Post Edited (Sat 24 Sep 00:40)
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 02:12

Brian Graham clothes-lined Jason Talbot in our half. They went on to win a penalty and he scored it.

I can`t stand him when he`s up against us but would have loved him in black and white back in the day

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 04:06

I think the "sin bin" idea in rugby could be highly effective in football too. Ten minutes in the sin bin for those offences that could be described as somewhere between a yellow card and a red.

The effect is immediate and painful for the perpetrator`s team. For 10 minutes they are one man short and have a greater chance of conceding a goal.

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 06:55

Quote:

Socks, Fri 23 Sep 23:15

As for taking one for the team, it`s a concept of which I entirely approve. In football, the team is all that matters, and you should always do whatever is necessary for the benefit of the team. You can stick your Corinthian spirit - I often applaud our players when they take a yellow in the right circumstances for stopping a break.


I rarely disagree with any of your posts, Socks, but the bit I`ve quoted is definitely one. What`s the point of playing any sport if you have to resort to - at best - cynical, unsporting behaviour to win at all costs? Surely, if you`re good enough, you can win without resorting to such underhand tactics? I would think your stance will find plenty of support among professional footballers - they are coached from an early age that winning games is all that matters. This is backed up by quotes from coaches and pundits:-

"Nobody remembers the losers."
"Show me a good loser and I`ll show you a loser."
"If fans want entertainment, they should go to the London Palladium."
"Football is a results driven industry, not a sport."

It`s also fair to say that the majority of fans just want to see their team win most weeks and will happily turn a Nelsonian eye or two to any strong arm tactics by one of their own players if it helps ensure a victory. Why is it then, that there`s such an outcry when cynical tactics are used by opposing players? Let me guess - is it because many fans are two-faced hypocrites?



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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 10:10

It is a tough one isn`t it GG. I`m sure we remember when Luis Suarez decided to become a goalkeeper with a goal line diving handball in the dying embers of a world cup quarter final against Ghana. But for his actions Ghana would have become the first ever African world cup semi finalists but as it was they missed the resulting penalty and it was Suarez` nation that would eventually proceed.
The same when Thiery Henry played basketball with the ball and France scored a controversial winner against Irel3in a world cup play off. And to think we are told as bairns that `cheats never prosper`.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: pars4life1  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 10:29

GG, players are taught that winning is all that matters because it is. There’s no point in taking to the pitch if you’re thinking anything different.

Can’t say I agree with those that are trying to argue that committing fouls deliberately is outrageous cheating, it isn’t. There are laws of the game and it’s up to the players if they are willing to receive whatever punishment they get.

Suarez has done a lot of things wrong in his career. That handball isn’t one of them, it was entirely the correct choice. We know this from statistics. Had he committed the same offence in the first minute of would have been stupid.

Absolutely every single player is trying to manipulate the laws and the referee to their advantage. We watch and cheer on a team of so called cheats every week.



Post Edited (Sat 24 Sep 11:02)
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 11:11

Bit harsh

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: EastEndTales  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 11:17

McFadden did the same against...Norway? Pity they scored.

Episode 2 of East End Tales is out with Jim Leishman!

https://eastendtales.buzzsprout.com/
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 11:17

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sat 24 Sep 10:10

It is a tough one isn`t it GG. I`m sure we remember when Luis Suarez decided to become a goalkeeper with a goal line diving handball in the dying embers of a world cup quarter final against Ghana. But for his actions Ghana would have become the first ever African world cup semi finalists but as it was they missed the resulting penalty and it was Suarez` nation that would eventually proceed.
The same when Thiery Henry played basketball with the ball and France scored a controversial winner against Irel3in a world cup play off. And to think we are told as bairns that `cheats never prosper`.


The Suarez handball was more clear cut, in that it saved Uruguay from almost certain defeat. I doubt there would have been time for them to equalise. Still, he was red carded and Ghana failed to convert the penalty.....

Henry got away with the handball and France profited from it, but if the goal had been disallowed, Ireland would still have needed to score to go through.....



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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 11:33

It`s all shades of grey GG. I mean this red card was harsh in my opinion.
https://youtu.be/6uHhnvquQNs

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 11:43

Quote:

pars4life1, Sat 24 Sep 10:29

GG, players are taught that winning is all that matters because it is. There’s no point in taking to the pitch if you’re thinking anything different.

Can’t say I agree with those that are trying to argue that committing fouls deliberately is outrageous cheating, it isn’t. There are laws of the game and it’s up to the players if they are willing to receive whatever punishment they get.

Suarez has done a lot of things wrong in his career. That handball isn’t one of them, it was entirely the correct choice. We know this from statistics. Had he committed the same offence in the first minute of would have been stupid.

Absolutely every single player is trying to manipulate the laws and the referee to their advantage. We watch and cheer on a team of so called cheats every week.



So much contentious stuff in your post, mate. Not saying you`re wrong but I`m at odds with your opinions and neither of us is likely to be persuaded to change theirs.

I agree winning is important in any competitive sport, but not that it is the be all and end all. The best Pars game I`ve ever been to was a 5-4 defeat by Celtic in 1966. After overcoming the disappointment of losing to a last min pen after being 2 goals up 3 times, I felt a sense of pride that the Pars had played their part in a brilliant game. That Celtic team won every competition it entered that season, btw, in including the Champions Cup.

Infringing the Laws of the Game absolutely is cheating and demeans the sport. Those players who do so hope to get away with it or at least that their team gains an unfair advantage from it. Suarez`s handball maybe wasn`t the worst thing he did in his career, but it left a bad taste in the mouth of many people. Had it been against Scotland, you might have viewed it differently. (The worst ever "incident" for me was Harald Schumacher`s assault on Patrick Battiston in the 1982 WC semi-final.)

As for your last paragraph, just because lots of players do it, doesn`t make it right. Folk often blame the ref for failing to punish players who use cynical tactics and when he does he`s criticised for being overly officious or whistle happy. I remember a game between Portugal and the Netherlands, where neither side held back with some horrific "tackles." The ref issued around 18 yellow cards and I think 4 players were sent off. Both managers suggested it was the ref`s fault as he`d had lost control of the game. 🤣🤣🤣



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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 12:11

I think we all have a blurred line between what we`re OK with, and what goes too far. And I think many of us would struggle to explain ratioinally why two different incidents fall on the opposite sides of that line. Where that line falls is different for each of us.

I don`t agree at all with the statement that `Infringing the Laws of the Game absolutely is cheating and demeans the sport.` The logical interpretation of that is that any foul is cheating, including a wee push as you try to win a header ahead of your opponent or a mistimed tackle where you try to take the ball but instead get the man first. Sometimes you commit a foul - it`s no big deal.

I don`t lilke players deliberately trying to seriously injure an opponent, and I don`t like diving and rolling about pretending to be injured. Most other things I`m OK with, including the Suarez handball. And given what I`ve argued about the incident on Wednesday, I don`t think I can be accused of any hypocrisy on that one, or would have felt differently had my team been on the end of it. I didn`t understand the hate directed his way after that one, and I think just about everyone who has ever taken to a fitba park would have instinctively done the same in that situation. Nobody was injured and nobody was deceived - it was just a player sacrificing himself for the good of the team. Is that not a form of heroism?

It`s quite possible to enjoy a game your own team doesn`t win (I did last week) but the only reason you can have such an engaging game is because both teams really want to win. The great game is a by-product, rather than the aim in its self.

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 12:34

If taking a yellow card for the team is a form of heroism what do you get for taking a red card? The George Cross?

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 14:10

Quote:

Socks, Sat 24 Sep 12:11

I think we all have a blurred line between what we`re OK with, and what goes too far. And I think many of us would struggle to explain ratioinally why two different incidents fall on the opposite sides of that line. Where that line falls is different for each of us.

I don`t agree at all with the statement that `Infringing the Laws of the Game absolutely is cheating and demeans the sport.` The logical interpretation of that is that any foul is cheating, including a wee push as you try to win a header ahead of your opponent or a mistimed tackle where you try to take the ball but instead get the man first. Sometimes you commit a foul - it`s no big deal.

You`ve extrapolated my statement a bit too far, Socks, but that`s my fault for not being clear enough. Perhaps I should have limited myself to starting with "Serious foul play...." as the fouls you list are quite trivial and I certainly wasn`t thinking about them.

I don`t lilke players deliberately trying to seriously injure an opponent, and I don`t like diving and rolling about pretending to be injured. Most other things I`m OK with, including the Suarez handball. And given what I`ve argued about the incident on Wednesday, I don`t think I can be accused of any hypocrisy on that one, or would have felt differently had my team been on the end of it. I didn`t understand the hate directed his way after that one, and I think just about everyone who has ever taken to a fitba park would have instinctively done the same in that situation. Nobody was injured and nobody was deceived - it was just a player sacrificing himself for the good of the team. Is that not a form of heroism?

I could never be OK with the Suarez handball and I know you`re not a hypocrite, but I`d suggest many football fans are exactly that, but may not even be aware of it. So many of us were incensed by the Suarez handball, but how many of us rubbed our hands with glee when Joe Jordan "won" a penalty v Wales in a decisive WC qualifier, the night Jock Stein died? I know I did at the time, but subsequently felt a deep sense of shame and a great deal of sympathy for the Welsh team and their fans. Was that not blatant cheating in your book? No better than diving or feigning injury to try and win a pen or get an opponent sent off, imo.



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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: pars4life1  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 16:50

What are you ok with GG? Shirt pulling? Blatant offence, horrendous cheating? Keepers holding onto the ball as long as the can horrendous unsportsmanlike? Deliberately taking a throw 10 yards higher up? Standing over the ball to stop quick free kicks? Asking the ref why an opponent hasn’t been booked? Having too many subs warming up? Blocking off runners?

I’m pretty sure if you refused to do these things no matter how good you were you’d find playing professionally very very difficult and would likely find yourself on the end of a fair few rollockings from teammates at amateur.

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 17:31

Quote:

pars4life1, Sat 24 Sep 16:50

What are you ok with GG? Shirt pulling? Blatant offence, horrendous cheating? Keepers holding onto the ball as long as the can horrendous unsportsmanlike? Deliberately taking a throw 10 yards higher up? Standing over the ball to stop quick free kicks? Asking the ref why an opponent hasn’t been booked? Having too many subs warming up? Blocking off runners?

I’m pretty sure if you refused to do these things no matter how good you were you’d find playing professionally very very difficult and would likely find yourself on the end of a fair few rollockings from teammates at amateur.


The short answer is that I dislike all the offences you list, in varying degrees, but I accept they`re pretty much part and parcel of the modern game. I also agree that players who never indulge in any of these would not be popular with their managers. Having said that, there are players who have enjoyed a long, successful career and never been booked or sent off.



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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: alwaysaPar  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 17:38

Quote:

GG Riva, Sat 24 Sept 17:31

Quote:

pars4life1, Sat 24 Sep 16:50

What are you ok with GG? Shirt pulling? Blatant offence, horrendous cheating? Keepers holding onto the ball as long as the can horrendous unsportsmanlike? Deliberately taking a throw 10 yards higher up? Standing over the ball to stop quick free kicks? Asking the ref why an opponent hasn’t been booked? Having too many subs warming up? Blocking off runners?

I’m pretty sure if you refused to do these things no matter how good you were you’d find playing professionally very very difficult and would likely find yourself on the end of a fair few rollockings from teammates at amateur.


The short answer is that I dislike all the offences you list, in varying degrees, but I accept they`re pretty much part and parcel of the modern game. I also agree that players who never indulge in any of these would not be popular with their managers. Having said that, there are players who have enjoyed a long, successful career and never been booked or sent off.


Apart from Gary Lineker, in the modern era, say the last 30 years, name another ..............
Edited to say its not an arsey question, just genuinely interested to know.....

Post Edited (Sat 24 Sep 17:39)
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 18:46

Socks, I can`t see how Adams` speed can count against him or for the aggressor. Surely it`s for the person commiting the foul to take that into account?
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: pars4life1  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 18:57


The short answer is that I dislike all the offences you list, in varying degrees, but I accept they`re pretty much part and parcel of the modern game. I also agree that players who never indulge in any of these would not be popular with their managers. Having said that, there are players who have enjoyed a long, successful career and never been booked or sent off.”

I genuinely have no idea how you can watch football or indeed sport as a whole if thousands of offences every game get under your skin. It isn’t just the modern game, these things have always happened, your weird nostalgia didn’t happen. Guys like Roy Barry were praised for being hard in the tackle and making sure the striker knew he was in a game, blatant cheating by your accounts.

On the later point Lineker is a famous example and he openly admits that was due to being too shitebag to tackle. Besides he played when cards were much harder to come by, he also outside of ad campaigns doesn’t treat it as something to be proud of, preferring to lean on his goal scoring.

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 19:39

Quote:

pars4life1, Sat 24 Sep 18:57

I genuinely have no idea how you can watch football or indeed sport as a whole if thousands of offences every game get under your skin. It isn’t just the modern game, these things have always happened, your weird nostalgia didn’t happen. Guys like Roy Barry were praised for being hard in the tackle and making sure the striker knew he was in a game, blatant cheating by your accounts.


I`m surprised that you seem to think I can`t enjoy a good game, just because there`s the odd unsavoury tackle, a bit of shirt pulling or time wasting. These things can increase our blood pressure and actually increase our participation and enjoyment. As for my "weird nostalgia", you couldn`t be wider off the mark - Roy Barry was one of my boyhood heroes. I regarded him as hard but fair, opposing fans thought he was one dirty bassa - that`s the hypocrisy that most of us have, in varying degrees.

One yardstick for our own players and another for opponents....



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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 19:41

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sat 24 Sep 11:33

It`s all shades of grey GG. I mean this red card was harsh in my opinion.
https://youtu.be/6uHhnvquQNs


😂🤣😂🤣



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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 19:43

Ref: JTH123
Sat 24 Sep 18:46

Quote:

Socks, I can`t see how Adams` speed can count against him or for the aggressor. Surely it`s for the person commiting the foul to take that into account?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Spot on JTH.

I`ve been thinking about what competitive sport is. I think mostly it`s competition in which there are rules that both sides are supposed to stick to. To some it seems, being `sporting` has come to mean being soft, but in some sports, competitors are allowed to injure each other. However it is considered sporting so long as both sides are abiding by the rules when they do it.

Hence, I think what it comes down to is that competitive sport - to be sport - is intended to be fair. When Graham yanked Talbot (thanks for the details DA), that wasn`t fair - purely on the basis that one player wasn`t playing by the rules - no need to add anything emotional to it. Same with `the hand of God` goal. It wasn`t fair according to the rules. It was basketball, which most people recognise as a different game.

I like to see fair play, so I`m beside GG Riva on this. I don`t think it`d be all that difficult to clean up the game. Refs just need to be told to clamp down more. But also, some rules need toughening up. At the moment it`s worth an outfield player doing a `goalie,` a la Suarez, because they know the penalty might be saved or missed. That rule gives the offenders a chance for significant gain, which they shouldn`t get. It should be changed so that the ref awards a penalty goal - then it would fully compensate the attacking side without any chance of benefit to the defenders.



Post Edited (Sat 24 Sep 20:54)
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 19:55

Quote:

alwaysaPar, Sat 24 Sep 17:38

Apart from Gary Lineker, in the modern era, say the last 30 years, name another ..............
Edited to say its not an arsey question, just genuinely interested to know.....


Not being arsey either, but you can Google that yourself. 🙂

I was surprised that there`s hardly anyone from the last 30 years, no doubt that`s because today`s refs are far more inclined to pull out a card than their predecessors. Claudio Gentile was as tough and hard as they come and he was sent off once in his entire career, picking up 2 yellows in a European tie v Club Brugge. Closer to home, our own Alex Smith, who`s still a regular at EEP, picked up the only red card of his career, playing in his very last game - a reserve match for Aberdeen. His crime? Swearing. Alex felt quite bitter about his sending off at the time - he told me he was swearing at himself, in a moment of frustration. ☹



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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 21:02

In professional sport when the stakes are high the rules will be pushed to the limit. It would be naive to expect otherwise. The Suarez example is a good one; he blatantly cheated but the benefits outweighed the consequences.
Therefore it`s for the lawmakers to legislate accordingly. If Suarez had been banned for 5 games or the tie forfeited for such an offence this would stop.
I`d be interested to see trials of sin bin use and moving the ball forward 10 yards for dissent. But ffs please sort out the handball laws first.
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 23:53

The Joe Jordan handball incident GG was 1977 and the game against Wales when Jock Stein died was 1985. I think Scotland won the latter game legitimately. But a very sad night all the same that I`ll never forget.



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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: alwaysaPar  
Date:   Sun 25 Sep 08:55

Quote:

GG Riva, Sat 24 Sept 19:55

Quote:

alwaysaPar, Sat 24 Sep 17:38

Apart from Gary Lineker, in the modern era, say the last 30 years, name another ..............
Edited to say its not an arsey question, just genuinely interested to know.....


Not being arsey either, but you can Google that yourself. 🙂


I did , and couldn`t find anything, so that`s why I asked if you had any other information.. .....which you didn`t 🤣
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sun 25 Sep 12:58

"If taking a yellow card for the team is a form of heroism what do you get for taking a red card? The George Cross?"

That`s an odd comment, given that the discussion was in relation to an incident where the player was sent off, and knew with 100% certainty that he would be. Hence my use of the phrase `a player sacrificing himself` - he knew he would go off, and knew he`d miss the next game if his team made it through.

So many of us were incensed by the Suarez handball, but how many of us rubbed our hands with glee when Joe Jordan "won" a penalty v Wales in a decisive WC qualifier, the night Jock Stein died? I know I did at the time, but subsequently felt a deep sense of shame and a great deal of sympathy for the Welsh team and their fans. Was that not blatant cheating in your book?

I didn`t feel anything that night - my excuse is that it as before I was born. Was it really cheating? Hand goes up, touches the ball and the referee makes a bad decision and gives it the wrong way. Had there been a specific and premeditated intent to deceive the referee then you might argue that it was cheating, but that seems very unlikely. Should he have told the referee? Unlikely to happen, and especially so as Scotland seemed to be denied a very good penalty shout in the first half, which may have been on the referee`s mind when he gave that one.

"Socks, I can`t see how Adams` speed can count against him or for the aggressor. Surely it`s for the person commiting the foul to take that into account?"

Of course it doesn`t count against him - nobody has suggested Adams did anything wrong. In relation to the defender, I just don`t think the sanction should be more severe because you turn across someone running quickly than it would be if you turn across someone plodding. Yes, the context always has to be taken into account but the decision should be based mainly on the action of the player committing the foul. I`ve watched it again since originally commenting and I still think the referee was correct, and that it wasn`t bad enough to be sanctioned as serious foul play. You`re entitled to disagree, but I`m not wrong to take the view I have, even if most see it differently.

Therefore it`s for the lawmakers to legislate accordingly. If Suarez had been banned for 5 games or the tie forfeited for such an offence this would stop."

Is that what you think the sanction should be? And have you considered the implications of where that might lead?

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 25 Sep 13:14

`"If taking a yellow card for the team is a form of heroism what do you get for taking a red card? The George Cross?"

That`s an odd comment, given that the discussion was in relation to an incident where the player was sent off, and knew with 100% certainty that he would be. Hence my use of the phrase `a player sacrificing himself` - he knew he would go off, and knew he`d miss the next game if his team made it through.`

Having re-read your comment I can see I misunderstood it to be referring to Wednesday night`s incident rather than the Suarez incident. I think it`s a wee bit ambiguous. Regardless, I do think describing taking a red card for the sake of the team as a `form of heroism` as a bit OTT.

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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 25 Sep 13:24

Quote:

Paralex, Sat 24 Sep 23:53

The Joe Jordan handball incident GG was 1977 and the game against Wales when Jock Stein died was 1885. I think Scotland won the latter game legitimately. But a very sad night all the same that I`ll never forget.


Ah, I managed to conflate the two play off games v Wales. It`s the galloping Auldtimer`s 🙁

We`re both games played at Anfield?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Sun 25 Sep 13:31

No, the `85 game was at Ninian Park, Cardiff. I was there and remember the aftermath like yesterday.
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Sun 25 Sep 13:40

Hi Socks, in relation to the 2 points for my comments;

Of course you`re entitled to your opinion about the Adams foul. I didn`t expect my comment to change your mind and my point still stands that it was serious foul play IMHO.

As regards the sanctions for the "professional foul", I was agreeing with your point that the Corinthian spirit is an outdated concept as far as professional sport goes. I was suggesting that unless punishments more accurately reflect the crime, there is no incentive for those committing these fouls to stop.
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 Re: Scotland v Ukraine
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 25 Sep 13:42

Quote:

Socks, Sun 25 Sep 12:58

So many of us were incensed by the Suarez handball, but how many of us rubbed our hands with glee when Joe Jordan "won" a penalty v Wales in a decisive WC qualifier, the night Jock Stein died? I know I did at the time, but subsequently felt a deep sense of shame and a great deal of sympathy for the Welsh team and their fans. Was that not blatant cheating in your book?

I didn`t feel anything that night - my excuse is that it as before I was born. Was it really cheating? Hand goes up, touches the ball and the referee makes a bad decision and gives it the wrong way. Had there been a specific and premeditated intent to deceive the referee then you might argue that it was cheating, but that seems very unlikely. Should he have told the referee? Unlikely to happen, and especially so as Scotland seemed to be denied a very good penalty shout in the first half, which may have been on the referee`s mind when he gave that.


Jordan went up with his hand almost vertically above his head. He clearly deliberately handled and altered the flight of the ball which he couldn`t reach with his head. Was he trying to engineer an advantage for Scotland? You better believe it. Did he therefore cheat? 🤔 Hmmm. Did the ref get it wrong? Absolutely. Was it all the ref`s fault? 🤔

The ref`s job would be so much easier if players didn`t constantly complicate it by trying to hoodwink him in so many ways like diving, feigning injury, claiming for every decision etc.

Eta. I know we're never going to go back to the Corinthian ideal of the 19th century but that doesn't mean we have to like the unsporting side of modern football.



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Sun 25 Sep 13:47)
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