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 Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Tue 4 Oct 19:49

Ayr United have asked thier fans for thier views on weather kick off times should be moved due to the energy crisis.
There has been discussion amongst some Championship clubs regarding the amendment of kick-off times to combat the ongoing energy challenges and also allow clubs to stream certain matches via PPV.

Ayr United are keen to hear views from supporters regarding these proposed changes which would be on a limited basis over an initial trial period and involve matches kicking-off at 12.45pm instead of 3pm.

Supporters are asked to share their views by filling in an online form

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Tue 4 Oct 20:08

Good idea
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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Tue 4 Oct 20:19

Why is it a good idea?

I`m not sure how helpful it is to ask fans a few questions about it when there`s no info given as to what the cost savings would be. I`d be interested to know, but intuitively it seems unlikely to make enough difference to cover the probable loss of away fans and some home fans who do not live locally and who have to travel some distance.

Maybe some folk see it the other way and would prefer to be home before it`s dark, but if games are moved to 12.45, I think it`s unlikely I`d get to the number of away games I manage currently.

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Tue 4 Oct 20:25

Lots of kids have Saturday morning football, I would end up missing all home games if my boy was playing away and the start if he was playing at home, this must be the case for hundreds of families.

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Tue 4 Oct 20:40

It`s possible that there will have to be rationing or restrictions of electricity use this winter, if gas-powered electricity stations are obliged to close due to shortages of gas.

If that happens, heavy users will be directed not to use electricity unnecessarily, and switching to earlier start times for sporting events is an easy way to achieve that. It`s sensible for clubs to think ahead about what this might mean for their own staff and supporters.

It`s not just football, looking around city centres it`s easy to see lots of display signs that might have to be switched off as well.

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: pars4life1  
Date:   Tue 4 Oct 21:17

Stanza, I don’t think sports grounds are particularly heavy users, especially with LED floodlights, If east end shuts then so should every 3g pitch. You also need to consider that they are taking thousands of people out their homes where they’d be using power instead.

However I’d be more worried that they are an easy target, we saw the reaction over COVID, if any rationing comes in there will be plenty screeching ‘but what about the football, they shouldn’t be doing that’. They’d still want the Xmas lights on tho…

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Tue 4 Oct 22:01

Be interesting if they asked whether fans would prefer an earlier kick off or a 50p winter levy added to ticket price for the meter


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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Tue 4 Oct 22:03

Pars4life I just came on to post exactly that, bringing 4k plus people out there house to EEP would actually result in a net energy usage reduction.

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Tue 4 Oct 22:07

A 12.45 kick off would allow streaming to both home and away fans ,as it`s outside the sky block window .

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Wed 5 Oct 00:27

Quote:

DulochConvert, Tue 4 Oct 22:03

Pars4life I just came on to post exactly that, bringing 4k plus people out there house to EEP would actually result in a net energy usage reduction.


Only if they walked to the match and there was nobody else left at home using electricity!

But I agree - football floodlights will be an easy target for any restrictions, hence my suggestion that clubs should be thinking ahead about the implications for them

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Wed 5 Oct 09:01

Local games starting at 12:45 would be fine but long distance games would be a non-starter in my opinion
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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: theparsman1885  
Date:   Wed 5 Oct 09:13

Energy rich nation having to contemplate rationing of energy.

Let that sink in next time you’re at a ballot box or referenda.

Get this idea straight in the bin.

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Wed 5 Oct 09:34

Quote:

dafc-chris1, Wed 5 Oct 09:01

Local games starting at 12:45 would be fine but long distance games would be a non-starter in my opinion


Not sure why they are suggesting a KO time that early. Even in deepest darkest December Junior games don`t kick off then. 13:30 is the usual KO if I remember correctly.
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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 5 Oct 10:25




That`s a really good point - so not only could save money, but may create a smidge more revenue.

i don`t mind earlier kick off times because i basically go to the football on a Saturday. In fact, when it gets deepest darkest (and coldest) winter i`d prefer an earlier time.

there will always be people who are impacted by any change like this. some on here like friday night games, whereas i can`t make those as have other commitments.

Personally, if we`re concerned about energy consumption and costs of energy, then i would rather we played in the summer. in general terms, it would be warmer, lighter, more pleasant when staying in the same spot for 2hrs, easier travel, etc

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: Alf  
Date:   Wed 5 Oct 10:38

Quote:

theparsman1885, Wed 5 Oct 09:13

Energy rich nation having to contemplate rationing of energy.

Let that sink in next time you’re at a ballot box or referenda.

Get this idea straight in the bin.


It`s not just about rationing, it`s the cost of energy that a lot of smaller clubs will struggle to pay for
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 Re: Earlier Kick Off
Topic Originator: ParfectXI  
Date:   Wed 5 Oct 10:42

Let’s not forget that it’s not just about the floodlights, 3pm kick offs mean colder times which means heating has to work harder inside to keep warm, more lights on around the stadium that wouldn’t need to be on during lighter hours etc. so much more than just the floodlights.

Scott Gardiner was on the radio saying ICTs energy cost were up 400% along with a drop in away fans which he attributes to Petrol costs.

I’m not sure about the 400% but certainly I would suspect energy would at least double, therefore I’d imagine that a lot of clubs will soon be struggling so any way of saving money will be a necessity.

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 5 Oct 12:36

If it was summer football, we`d probably not need to use under pitch heating as well, our cancel games to midweek when it`s defo darker
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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Wed 5 Oct 13:59

I find many of the comments quite odd, when we don`t know what the cost actually is. And without having some number, I find it hard to believe that the cost to run a modern lighting system can be so high that changing kick-off time would make any significant difference - lighting is generally much less erergy intensive than heating. I remember hearing a comment some years ago that at a small part-time club, a handful of adult admissions covers the lighting costs. That seems about right to me, of course taking into account that recent increases might push that up a bit.

To counter the arguments that seem to make out that earlier start times are obvious and there`s no issues with them - in winter, pitch inspections sometimes take place, and if starting earlier there is less time for pitches to thaw in the morning after an overnight frost. Earlier kick-offs and earlier inspections inevitably mean that more games will be off on Saturdays.

As to the argument for reducing electricity usage to save on gas used in generation - gas accounts for only 10% of electricity generation in Scotland, according to this (go down to chart 6):

https://www.scottishrenewables.com/our-industry/statistics

And if that is the argument, where does it end? Presumably we`d have to play our midweek games at a similarly early time if floodlights shouldn`t be used, part-time clubs couldn`t hire floodlit parks for evening training and lighting for groups of haddies having their weekly game of fives would also have to be stopped.

Considering it now as a possible contingency should we be looking at power cuts, or if it were proven that extra lighting costs makes a serious difference to club budgets is OK. However, it certainly shouldn`t be the preferred option. Until such time as someone presents figures for what might be saved, or we get close to a situation when power cuts could be a reality, we should not be doing this.



Post Edited (Wed 05 Oct 14:00)
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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: ParfectXI  
Date:   Wed 5 Oct 18:26

Socks, you have a fair point, but forget that the club is being hit with increases everywhere (as are we all). With Fuel costs as high as they are (ok they went down but still on the extortionate side) buses to away games will be far more expensive than budgeted for since the bus firms will increase hire charges to cover fuel, company energy and all the rest of it. Then increased prices at the hotel they stop at for meals, increased prices for team meals during the week, higher costs of any bank loans.

As we all are aware there has been very little that has reduced prices or even stayed the same. When people start to feel the pinch unfortunately some of us won’t be able to attend matches anymore, that 20 odd quid will be a step too far which means less revenue for the club.

If the movement of games to 1245 in a small way helps us survive through these dark times then I’m all for it.

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie  
Date:   Wed 5 Oct 19:32

Lot of folk involved with other commitments earlier on a Saturday that would have a knock on effect be it kids` football, golf or those who still play themselves on a Saturday morning (as examples of myself and folk i know who attend games).

No harm in trying it though to see if it`s viable.

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Wed 5 Oct 23:21

I`m not forgetting any such thing - rising prices everywhere are unmissable.

"If the movement of games to 1245 in a small way helps us survive through these dark times then I’m all for it."

And do you think playing earlier in the day will help us to survive? If so, what are you basing such a judgement on?

The presumption should be that games start at 3pm unless there`s a very good reason not to. The normal start time is so well established that many fans will have Saturday routines to accommodate this so changing with no serious benefit from doing so would be utterly wrong.

I`ve seen no evidence presented to support it - such evidence would include the cost difference (should be easy to know quite accurately) and expected gain or reduction in attendance (would obviously have to be an estimate). For now, the only `evidence` I`ve seen is people looking at electricity prices and thinking `those floodlights must cost a lot to run`. Well that isn`t good enough.

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 6 Oct 09:55

I don`t disagree with that... Id prefer 3pm Saturday in the summer months myself, which I believe would result in lower energy usage /costs

Post Edited (Thu 06 Oct 09:56)
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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Thu 6 Oct 10:13

Agree with socks on this

Until there`s some costings put on it it`s irrelevant, I think we have become far too conditioned to accepting any old statements (maybe due to lockdown period)

No one seems to have any idea how much floodlights cost to run, so how do we just accept this?

I`m a 3 o`clock guy, changing people`s habits are pretty much pointless. As you say, what about away fans etc.

Even if there has to be rationing (and if things work well there won`t be, if we have a bad winter looks like a possibility) the early kick offs will result in more postponements necessitating more midweek games (and a large drop in income as well)

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 6 Oct 11:00

I`m not clear what all the fuss is about. At this stage some clubs are asking their supporters for their views on the possibility of earlier kick-off times. Nothing has bee decided and I presume the clubs will consider these views along with other information, including costings, before coming to a decision.

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Thu 6 Oct 11:45

There was a thread on the cost of electricity a few months back and I estimated (with the help of a few other posters) that it would cost 25 quid an hour to run the floodlights.

Someone helpfully pointed out that business rates have no cap, so I think it could actually be as much as 50 quid an hour with the current rates. That would work out at no more than 200 quid for a match day if the lights are on from 1:30 to 5:30 or something like that.

In terms of cost, if 10 people decide to stay away because of the change in kick-off time then we could end up making a loss.

In terms of energy rationing I understand that Saturday afternoon isn`t usually a peak time, so moving matches probably wouldn`t help with that.

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 6 Oct 12:28

that`s exactly why i think summer would be better...

no floodlights at all, no heating inside the stadium for all the areas people will be in (and that would be before/after matches, between games, etc), no undersoil heating needing to defrost the pitch/then repeating costs for postponements

...and would save old boys like me with my poor circulation from going home with numb/sore hands and feet whilst providing a much more pleasant experience weather wise for all

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 6 Oct 17:50

Quote:

DBP, Thu 6 Oct 12:28

that`s exactly why i think summer would be better...

no floodlights at all, no heating inside the stadium for all the areas people will be in (and that would be before/after matches, between games, etc), no undersoil heating needing to defrost the pitch/then repeating costs for postponements

...and would save old boys like me with my poor circulation from going home with numb/sore hands and feet whilst providing a much more pleasant experience weather wise for all


I wonder what %age of the population take their main holiday in the summer months? While more people would undoubtedly be more likely to attend games in more pleasant conditions, that would be offset by those who would miss out because they`re away on holiday.

Hard to know which of these would be more significant.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 6 Oct 20:10

So a fortnight in the summer would more than likely equate to one game

How many folk go on holiday in October?
Or Visit family /relatives at Christmas time?

I think it would be much a much?

Post Edited (Thu 06 Oct 20:10)
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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Thu 6 Oct 21:16

I read an article recently about a huge solar energy project in Fife and was surprised to see that our very own Nick Teller was involved. He is involved with a company called Greentech (details below). Surely we could install raised solar panels in the car park at the back of the North Stand that would generate enough energy to power the stadium.

Greentech — planning, developing and operating solar power plants

Greentech is a leading expert when it comes to developing, engineering and operating photovoltaic power plants. With our team of more than 80 employees we are active in 12 different countries. We manage a portfolio of 250 assets for our institutional and private investors with a combined output of more than 600 MW. This makes greentech one of the biggest independent managers of solar power plants in Europe.
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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Fri 7 Oct 06:17

Wouldn`t a summer football season be coming to its conclusion about now? When it`s cold, miserable and has a higher chance of games being postponed? Since all the final games are usually played at the same time, any postponement would be a logistics nightmare.

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Fri 7 Oct 07:32

don`t really get your point KP.

are you saying that it`s better to not play in the summer because the last few games could be in October when it`s cold etc

so instead it`s much better to start in October and play through the winter???

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Fri 7 Oct 07:50

I`m saying that teams looking to win titles, teams trying to escape relegation, teams trying to get into Europe or play offs would want to play their games at the business end of the season in good weather, on good pitches and without having postponements meaning they have to play three games in a week. And also that every final game in the league now usually kicks off at the same time but if a game is called off then every game would have to be rearranged which wouldn`t be ideal. You`re also not letting the grass grow and recover in the summer but that`s another argument.

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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995  
Date:   Fri 7 Oct 08:02

Quote:

DBP, Thu 6 Oct 12:28

that`s exactly why i think summer would be better...

no floodlights at all, no heating inside the stadium for all the areas people will be in (and that would be before/after matches, between games, etc), no undersoil heating needing to defrost the pitch/then repeating costs for postponements

...and would save old boys like me with my poor circulation from going home with numb/sore hands and feet whilst providing a much more pleasant experience weather wise for all


Problem with summer football is this is the busiest time folk jet off on holidays.

c'mon the pars
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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Fri 7 Oct 08:30

I had a fortnight off in the summer - missed Alloa twice and Edinburgh City.

Most of the time we currently don`t play football the schools are still in so there`d not be much of a difference there. Not everyone`s tied to the school holidays but it affects a lot of people and, from experience, I think those who aren`t are no more likely to go in June than September.

I thought the southern pitch of the main stand roof would be ideal for solar panels. I didn`t realise there was an interested party already associated with the club. We`ve sponsored bricks and plaques in the past, why not solar panels?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: Earlier Kick Off Times
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Fri 7 Oct 14:44

Still say people take holidays throughout the year...

Also in the summer, there will be far fewer games postponed to be replayed mid-week, and lots of people, especially away fans, can`t make those mid week games

One other argument I heard is that economically, selling Scottish football to TV companies in the summer would result in potentially a higher value... Much less competition from basically every other league trying to do the same in the winter

Post Edited (Fri 07 Oct 14:50)
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