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 World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Ormiston_Par  
Date:   Tue 8 Nov 23:50

It`s a resounding "nay" from me. This particular WC is just steeped in too much corruption, controversy and tragedy. I can`t support (let alone enjoy) an event that has cost thousands upon thousands of lives. It should never have been allowed to happen.

Having said that, it`s far easier to take such a stance when one`s own team isn`t taking part, so the question of "Would I feel that way if Scotland were there?" is a very tricky one to reconcile. I honestly don`t know, but I`d certainly be very conflicted about it.

As things are, it`s safe to say I won`t be watching any of the 2022 WC, but I`m genuinely interested to know how others feel about it.

(This isn`t a platform for passing judgement btw - to watch or not is a personal choice. People who want to enjoy the tournament should be allowed to do so without criticism).



Post Edited (Wed 09 Nov 00:00)
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: SusieQ  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 00:53

Absolutely nay for me.

Was torn throughout the qualifying between wanting us to do well / keep up the momentum, but not wanting us to qualify for THIS World Cup as there`s no way I was going to go.

Ukraine did us a favour in the end, but I had a feeling Wales would have beaten us too, so - meh.

Usually I get excited at having so much football on but I can`t be bothered with it this time tbh. (And there`s loads of football on every week now anyway!)

Roll on March & the next set of Scotland games I can really get into as I`d love us to qualify for Germany 2024


COME ON YE PARS!
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 06:24

A definite Nay for me.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 06:33

I`ll be watching but not as excited as I would normally be. It just doesn`t seem like a World Cup. It`s like a bunch of glamour friendlies.

What`s disappointing for me is that it takes the hosting a football tournament to highlight a countries failings. Their human rights record has been, to put it mildly, questionable for decades yet the world only seems to pay attention when the World Cup comes into town.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 07:23

What an excellent thread, Ormiston.

When Scotland and Italy were both knocked out, I posted on here that it would make it easier for me to give the tournament a body swerve, but my love of football would probably make it quite difficult to maintain my resolve as the start draws near. Happily, I`m not feeling the love just yet, but I can`t rule out the possibility that I`ll be tempted to watch some games in the later stages, at which point hypocrisy overcomes integrity.

The OP is spot on with his observations. Some $6m was used to bribe the 21 FIFA delegates eligible to vote for this farcical desert venue. Money talks right enough. I watched a news article on an Italian channel a few weeks ago and the stadia are absolutely breath-taking. It ended with a sobering statistic - over 6,000 mainly p*** poor foreign workers have died during the building of these stadia, thanks to an almost complete absence of any health and safety precautions.

What I can`t understand is why the major football nations failed to tell FIFA where they could stick their World Cup, right after the vote was announced. In that sense, they`re just as culpable and corrupt as Sepp Flatter and his cronies.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 07:30

I will be watching as I will focus on the Football and ignore all the other issues surrounding this world cup
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: nick_dafc1  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 08:10

All these people not watching it for human rights record of Qatar, I hope you don`t watch the English Premier League as Man City`s owners and Newcastle`s owners are just as bad on human rights issues and treatment of LGBTQ rights.

UAE and Saudi Arabia are no better on these than Qatar... a lot of hypocrisy in here..
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: EastEndTales  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 08:17

Define boycott?

Not watching any matches including any coverage or highlights? Because it will be almost impossible to avoid any news of it.

For me, I`ll probably take in some games but as we`re not there, I`m not excited at all for it.
Euro 2024 will be vastly different!

Ep. 4 of East End Tales is out now with Colin Miller, talking about Tannadice from 1996

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/11735127
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: EastEndBoy  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 08:21

I`ll not be boycotting it as such. I`ll probably watch a few games but the excitement for it is zero.

It`s been sh@ on to the point it feels almost meaningless. The corruption involved with putting it on is as clear as day. I hope it`s a massive commercial and sporting failure for FIFA. They deserve nothing more.

And that`s before even considering the greenwashing.

...ken?

Post Edited (Wed 09 Nov 08:22)
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: 1985Par  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 08:56

I`ll probably watch it but I`m not looking forward to it in the way I would a summer world cup. I`ve always been against the WC being there on the grounds that I don`t believe in giving the tournament to countries with little or no football culture and no infrastructure in place. The environmental and human cost of building new stadiums for a 3 week showpiece is ludicrous IMO. There are several countries around the world where the fervour for football is already there and the infrastructure already in place - these countries, wherever they are, should be hosting the tournament and the likes of Qatar should need to demonstrate that this is in place before they bid and not on the basis of a " legacy" it might ( but probably won`t) leave. Hopefully i`ll be surprised though and the tournament turns out to be a cracker.

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: GG4  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 09:06

Topic Originator: dafc-chris1 like
Date: Wed 9 Nov 07:30

I will be watching as I will focus on the Football and ignore all the other issues surrounding this world cup

This 100%. Its about football for me and I need my fix.

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 10:29

Not interested, as I am not interested in the “Champions League”. Corruption, money and the spirit of fair competition died in football long ago in the top tiers of every league in Europe. Would love to see this new top tier of European football kick off to disenfranchise the supporters from their teams, lose the support of the TV companies then fall flatly on its face, only for those said teams to come crawling back to their respective FA’s to be told their cut in monies is now equal across the board. The greed in football knows no bounds at those levels.

Prefer to watch the Pars or Junior football with people who have a love for the game rather than listen to people who are just looking for their next investment.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 10:42

The attraction of World Cup football is that it’s more democratic than elite club football: the bigger, richer countries cannot poach players from other nations. This allows countries like Croatia (smaller than Scotland) to show their ability on a world stage. Another enjoyable feature is watching a player scarcely known to us, such as the French second division player Roger Milla, play out of his skin when wearing his country’s colours.

So I’ll watch most of the games same as I have since 1966. Qatar’s treatment of foreign labourers I witnessed first hand a dozen years ago: treated with contempt in visa centres, banned from shopping malls, offered ‘accommodation’ consisting of a tent on a construction site. Their employment rights seemed close to serfdom. A country which you could not leave without the permission of your employer was not for me. Although there was great interest in football when I was there- Zidane was idolised by teenagers- the country was obviously too hot for a summer tournament and is too small to host a world tournament.

I don’t have a very principled record when football collides with politics and human rights. I joined in the optimism of Scotland heading off to Argentina in 1978 although there were plenty advocating boycott on the basis of its fascist regime. Even worse was the tour of 1977 when Scotland played in the Santiago national stadium, torture centre for the Pinochet junta. If I’m still around for 2024 I’ll probably watch that tournament too, even although the richest country in Europe boasts food ‘banks’- what used to be called soup kitchens- and might be run by the AfD by then.

sammer
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: EastEndTales  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 10:47

You`re mad if you think the AfD will be anywhere near a controlling party by 2050 never mind 2024.

I`d also much rather lose my job in Germany than on the UK.

Ep. 4 of East End Tales is out now with Colin Miller, talking about Tannadice from 1996

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/11735127
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 11:11

I`ll be watching it and I expect some of the games will be top notch entertainment. Undoubtedly there will be some incredible goals and games.
A couple of months ago I tuned into watch Newcastle play Man City. A great game which ended 3-3 and the moral arguments against the owners of those two clubs are the same as against this year`s world cup hosts but when the ref blows the whistle nobody cares.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 11:16

Quote:

nick_dafc1, Wed 9 Nov 08:10

All these people not watching it for human rights record of Qatar, I hope you don`t watch the English Premier League as Man City`s owners and Newcastle`s owners are just as bad on human rights issues and treatment of LGBTQ rights.

UAE and Saudi Arabia are no better on these than Qatar... a lot of hypocrisy in here..


Absolutely correct about the EPL, Saudi Arabia and UAE.

But it`s surely fair to say we are all hypocritical (or at least wilfully blind) as football fans. As sammer and others point out, we`ve also been happy to take part in and get excited about a World Cup in fascist Argentina, where the government "disappeared" thousands of its own citizens, and applauded the play of Brazil despite its fascist dictatorship. And then there`s Russia.

The fact is that at the top level in football, money is the only language spoken. The top prizes go to the richest or those prepared to pay for the reflected glory, and the World Cup is no exception.

Having said that, at the moment I have much more interest in results from Peterhead, Airdrie etc than from Qatar, but that might change as the WC progresses.

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Post Edited (Wed 09 Nov 11:18)
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 11:20

Only to watch England get beat

”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 12:18

You might not get your wish Buffy as England might go all the way and win it
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 13:22

Watch the last 16 game Buffy.....

www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/fifa-23-world-cup-prediction-winners-b2221175.html

Post Edited (Wed 09 Nov 13:23)
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 13:34

I must say I don`t have the usual sense of anticipation about this World Cup. I don`t even know when the opening match is but I`ll probably watch whatever key games are on providing they are broadcast at convenient times for UK audiences.

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 17:08

Stanza, it’s not fair or accurate to include the UAE in that. Their treatment of migrant workers is much better that Qatar’s, and within the past 2 years they have become much more tolerant of lgbt rights and have even appointed a minister of tilt.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 17:15

I`m not that fussed...

If Scotland or Dunfermline aren`t playing then I generally don`t have that much of an interest in watching games.

I`ll watch the odd EPL game if I think it`ll be exciting, but if it’s not then I’ll turn over to something else

So it’s a Nay from me - but not because of human rights but because I’ve no real interest or reason to support any of the teams playing
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 18:46

Likely a nay from me. As others have said, Qatar aren`t unique in terms of questionable morals and laws. However, the whole thing seems really off in terms of how they managed to be the successful bidder.

Plus no Scotland there so I`m not really interested.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 18:56

I see Alan Shearer doesn`t think England will get past the quarter-finals because of frailties in defence.

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 20:14

Seems about right. Group is reasonably straight forward and they are likely to get Ecuador or Senegal in the Round of 16 and probably France in the quarters. Defence is easily the weakest part of the team.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 20:14

Quote:

wee eck, Wed 9 Nov 18:56

I see Alan Shearer doesn`t think England will get past the quarter-finals because of frailties in defence.


Don`t rate them going forward either-not scored in 4 of their previous 6 games.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: rikaka  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 21:04

Yeah I`ll be watching, I quite like the novelty having it on at winter this time
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Ormiston_Par  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 22:41

All these people not watching it for human rights record of Qatar, I hope you don`t watch the English Premier League as Man City`s owners and Newcastle`s owners are just as bad on human rights issues and treatment of LGBTQ rights.

UAE and Saudi Arabia are no better on these than Qatar... a lot of hypocrisy in here..


Well, I don`t watch the English Premiership so no hypocrisy here :-) Nor in fact do I tend to watch much football at all that doesn`t involve either the Pars or Scotland. Aside from major tournaments (this one being the obvious exception) and occasionally taking pleasure in seeing the OF get pumped in Europe, I tend to stick to my own teams for the most part.

The 2022 World Cup was awarded to Qatar amidst all manner of corruption and controversy. Money changed hands to ensure that it happened, and subsequently upwards of 6000 people have lost their lives while working to build the necessary intrastructure. To put that in perspective - that`s more than twice the final death toll for 9/11.

While there`s definitely a conversation to be had about the Middle Eastern owners of clubs like Man City and Newcastle (and don`t get me wrong - I don`t think it`s a good look for the English FA to continue making such clubs welcome in their competition) - that is a smaller piece of the bigger picture. Something like the World Cup is much easier (and much more effective) to highlight because of what it represents, and because it is truly a global spectacle.

As for hypocrisy - I think if you`re determined enough, you`ll find it just about anywhere. Speaking out in opposition of the 2022 World Cup is never going to be the wrong thing to do, regardless of who you support or which other competitions you watch.



Post Edited (Wed 09 Nov 22:41)
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Ormiston_Par  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 22:52

Define boycott?

Can I just point out that nobody had mentioned the word "boycott" until you did ;-)

To answer your question though - for me, it`s a conscious decision not to watch any of the games, nor to take an interest in any of the results. It`s an effort not to care, essentially.

Obviously, the WC is going to be all over the media for more than a month and total avoidance of any coverage whatsoever is going to be nigh on impossible. That said, one of the easiest things in the world is to simply keep scrolling, turn the page or to change the channel - just as I would do with literally anything else I didn`t want to read or watch.

The artist formerly known as KGB / Slim Hoolie
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Wed 9 Nov 22:59

Topic Originator: dd23
Date: Wed 9 Nov 17:08

Stanza, it’s not fair or accurate to include the UAE in that. Their treatment of migrant workers is much better that Qatar’s, and within the past 2 years they have become much more tolerant of lgbt rights and have even appointed a minister of tilt.


I have no first-hand knowledge of any of the Gulf states while it sounds as if you have, so fair enough - you will know more about the situation on the ground than I do. I was just going by the several reports I have read on migrant workers` conditions in the UAE, such as the Harvard International Review below.
https://hir.harvard.edu/taken-hostage-in-the-uae/
It may well be that Qatar and Saudi Arabia are worse, but it still doesn`t sound great!

Similarly, Forbes Magazine reported in 2021 a survey ranking the UAE as the 9th-worst country in the world for LGBTQ+ travellers to visit (again behind Saudi Arabia and Qatar, but that`s not saying much!)
Forbes story link

It may well be that things are improving in the UAE and that would be great, but it seems to be from a very low base.

PS I have no idea what a "minister of tilt" is ....

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Thu 10 Nov 07:25

Ha, should have said minister of tolerance.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 10 Nov 07:55

And now we have Qatar`s WC ambassador telling us that homosexuality is a mental illness.....

link to story



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Thu 10 Nov 08:07

So the treatment for metal illness there is the death penalty?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Thu 10 Nov 12:43

I applaud those who will not watch the Qatar WC on principle. But, is it purely a matter of individual conscience, or does it have any value as protest (e.g. regarding deaths of construction workers, LGBT rights etc. ?)

For example, if viewing figures are very low, would that have any effect? Also, if someone watches at home - someone who would never go to a pub to watch, and who doesn`t have subscription TV - what effect, if any, would that have on business, the choosing of future WC venues, or Qatar Human Rights?

I can see a value in this thread - even to discuss the subject is worth something. (The alternative - not to discuss it, would be to maintain status quo. And it`s a subject that progressives believe needs change.)

Having said that, I`m not sure how much Joe Bloggs sitting at home with terrestrial tv watching a match or two really has to do with the big issues. I think, to not watch has value to the individual - by being true to themselves - but I`m wondering if it has any other effect.

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Thu 10 Nov 13:04

Onandupthepars poses a question, to which the answer is always the same:
The actions of one individual can make no difference, but the actions of many individuals can.

Had it not been for the widespread revulsion at the social policies of the various Gulf states it`s very unlikely that even the tiny advances that have been achieved would have happened.

But realistically the wealth of the ruling elites in these countries means that they are almost impervious to outside opinion. Sadly we need their oil industry for our lives to function as we want, but we don`t need to patronise their tourism industry, IMO.

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 10 Nov 13:16

I won`t be watching and I`ll be doing my best to avoid using any of the sponsors too.

The death toll that has been mentioned (two nine-elevens) is enough in and of itself for me to reach that decision, then there`s the corruption and human rights issues on top.

I was more or less done with the World Cup after it was awarded to Russia anyway, and I watched very little of it, so this was just a fairly hefty final straw.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 10 Nov 13:47

At the last UK General Election 75.6% (possibly more if you start to include smaller parties) of the UK electorate voted for two parties that are more than happy to approve arms sales via export licensing to all of the countries football fans are complaining about.

That says to me that quite a lot of people don`t care quite as much as the profess to.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 10 Nov 14:42

That says to me that quite a lot of people don`t care quite as much as the profess to.

I`m not convinced that it`s productive to reject progress in the name of perfection.

If football fans can be made aware of the dire situation in some places through the sport then that has to be a good thing. If some of them even choose to act in a small way then I don`t think that it is fair to criticise them for not having done anything earlier.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Row_ZZ  
Date:   Thu 10 Nov 15:29

Couldn`t give a flying fox. Naturally I would be excited, but given all the humanitarian issues surrounding it, it`s got to be a no from me. Goes against everything I believe in. I just can`t support a World Cup in such a backwater part of the world. No idea how people go on holiday to these places and put up with their disgraceful dogma. Even if we would have qualified, I`d have been watching our games only, and through gritted teeth.

I`m already looking forward to the 2026 one. Scotland`s starting to produce brilliant players all over the place for the first time in absolute donkeys, so hopefully we can qualify for that one!

I Know There's Gonna Be (Good Times)
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Thu 10 Nov 15:33

The country doesn`t sit right with me, neither does the time.

I find it hard to be interested, and I work for one of the biggest bookmakers, so it is actually my job to be interested!

I suppose once the tournament kicks off I will wake up, it`s my favourite by a mile.

We make our own alliances, and sometimes our allies are not pleasant, but this one, a sporting occasion doesn`t sit right, LGBTQ+, the amount of deaths and treatment of migrant workers, women`s rights (!) So many things.

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 10 Nov 15:49

I`m finding it difficult to raise the enthusiasm for it. Right now I`m saying to myself that I`ll give it a miss. Watching England play Wales would be akin to Spurs v Bournemouth or something of that ilk. I see it as an unnecessary hindrance to the football season. I can`t see myself rooting for England or Wales and none of the other countries have much appeal either. Think I`ll stick my head in a good book or two.

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Thu 10 Nov 19:50

Given the saturation coverage of elite European football the sense of a World Cup being underwhelming is understandable. Back in 1966 the nearest I had come to seeing legends like Pele, Garrincha, Yashin and Eusebio was on a Pathe News clip. Now such talents appear on our screens every week. Nothing much new to be seen here you might think.

But international football has a unique appeal. When I watched South Korea dump Germany out of the last tournament I felt the same emotional involvement as when I saw North Korea defend heroically to defeat Italy in 1966. These were mostly average players pulling out the performance of a lifetime and they could do this because they were representing their country. I saw Charlie Dickson’s winner on TV highlights in 1961 and was at Hampden to see Pat Gardner’s blockbusters in 1968, but no goal touched so deep as Archie Gemmill’s in 1978. For a brief few minutes every Scot from John O’Groats to Gretna, across Canada and New Zealand, leapt from their seats and shared an unconfined joy. These moments don’t happen often so we are right to treasure them when they do. World Cup football offers that opportunity.

The humanitarian objections to Qatar are valid, along with many others before and to come. Menotti, the architect of the Argentine victory in 1978 rarely concealed his distaste for the military dictatorship he worked under, and his achievement probably helped the regime cling to power for longer than it might have done otherwise. He saw his victory as belonging to the Argentine football followers and also those who held to a different vision for the country that was Argentina. Was he a useful idiot? An appeaser? A man who believed he was forging a better future? Take your pick.

To paraphrase Dr, Johnson, I think a man who is tired of the World Cup is tired of football.

sammer
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Thu 10 Nov 19:53

Yeah, it`s a no from me, I`ve got zero enthusiasm for this World Cup, it should have gone to some of the Nations in Africa where there is a genuine passion for the game, rather to the place that paid the highest bribes.
I`ve got to admit, I`m really often stunned when I see people I know going on holiday to places like this. It just shows them up to be people who don`t value human rights, workers rights, women`s rights, LGBT+ rights, who condone slavery and homophobia.
I make them aware of my views on it, and think its high time we start shaming these people, and hopefully that will make others think twice about spending their money supporting such regimes
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 11 Nov 05:18

Quote:

sammer, Thu 10 Nov 19:50

Given the saturation coverage of elite European football the sense of a World Cup being underwhelming is understandable. Back in 1966 the nearest I had come to seeing legends like Pele, Garrincha, Yashin and Eusebio was on a Pathe News clip. Now such talents appear on our screens every week. Nothing much new to be seen here you might think.

But international football has a unique appeal. When I watched South Korea dump Germany out of the last tournament I felt the same emotional involvement as when I saw North Korea defend heroically to defeat Italy in 1966. These were mostly average players pulling out the performance of a lifetime and they could do this because they were representing their country. I saw Charlie Dickson’s winner on TV highlights in 1961 and was at Hampden to see Pat Gardner’s blockbusters in 1968, but no goal touched so deep as Archie Gemmill’s in 1978. For a brief few minutes every Scot from John O’Groats to Gretna, across Canada and New Zealand, leapt from their seats and shared an unconfined joy. These moments don’t happen often so we are right to treasure them when they do. World Cup football offers that opportunity.

The humanitarian objections to Qatar are valid, along with many others before and to come. Menotti, the architect of the Argentine victory in 1978 rarely concealed his distaste for the military dictatorship he worked under, and his achievement probably helped the regime cling to power for longer than it might have done otherwise. He saw his victory as belonging to the Argentine football followers and also those who held to a different vision for the country that was Argentina. Was he a useful idiot? An appeaser? A man who believed he was forging a better future? Take your pick.

To paraphrase Dr, Johnson, I think a man who is tired of the World Cup is tired of football.


An excellent, alternative viewpoint, Sammer.

Still and all, it`s not the tournament itself some of us have an issue with, but it`s location. It`s 2022. We`re far better informed than we were in 1978. I watched the Argentina WC, largely blissfully ignorant of the political machinations and "disappearances" taking place under the military junta at that time. I still believe the major footballing nations should have told FIFA and Qatar to do one, in the immediate aftermath of the vote.

There was no need to accuse the Qataris of bribery and corruption. The football associations of these countries could simply have said that they were not prepared to subject their international stars to the inhuman temperatures of a desert summer and that moving the tournament to Nov/Dec was disruptive and impractical. Or they could have been fearless and honest and told it as it is, citing human rights issues in the process.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: EastEndTales  
Date:   Fri 11 Nov 07:09

Bribery in world cup voting goes back decades. The Morrocans were infamously deep in it for what would be France 98.

Ep. 4 of East End Tales is out now with Colin Miller, talking about Tannadice from 1996

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/11735127
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 11 Nov 07:45

Quote:

EastEndTales, Fri 11 Nov 07:09

Bribery in world cup voting goes back decades. The Morrocans were infamously deep in it for what would be France 98.


Sorry for being pedantic, but is it bribery if Morocco didn`t get the WC? The delegates who took any monies offered, but didn`t vote as asked to weren`t bribed, were they? 🤔



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: EastEndTales  
Date:   Fri 11 Nov 07:59

Quote:

GG Riva, Fri 11 Nov 07:45

Quote:

EastEndTales, Fri 11 Nov 07:09

Bribery in world cup voting goes back decades. The Morrocans were infamously deep in it for what would be France 98.


Sorry for being pedantic, but is it bribery if Morocco didn`t get the WC? The delegates who took any monies offered, but didn`t vote as asked to weren`t bribed, were they? 🤔


Of course it is, if its successful or not.

If you try to murder someone, it`s attempted murder. Shall I call it attempted bribery instead ?

Ep. 4 of East End Tales is out now with Colin Miller, talking about Tannadice from 1996

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/11735127
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 11 Nov 10:27

Quote:

EastEndTales, Fri 11 Nov 07:59

Quote:

GG Riva, Fri 11 Nov 07:45

Quote:

EastEndTales, Fri 11 Nov 07:09

Bribery in world cup voting goes back decades. The Morrocans were infamously deep in it for what would be France 98.


Sorry for being pedantic, but is it bribery if Morocco didn`t get the WC? The delegates who took any monies offered, but didn`t vote as asked to weren`t bribed, were they? 🤔


Of course it is, if its successful or not.

If you try to murder someone, it`s attempted murder. Shall I call it attempted bribery instead ?


We`ll have to agree to disagree, EET. Attempted bribery is not bribery, in my humble one - just as murder is different from attempted murder and carries a different penalty. Does any country use the death penalty for attempted murder?



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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: EastEndTales  
Date:   Fri 11 Nov 10:40

So if you try something illegal and fail, it shouldn`t be punished as harshly as what you intended to do? We`ll have to disagree and move on then.

For the record there was a program I watched a few years ago, if I find it I`ll post a link, that showed that literally every world cup bidders showered the selection committees with gifts etc. Its rotten to the core.

Blatter came out few days ago saying it was a mistake to award it to Qatar and put the blame on Platini and UEFA.

Ep. 4 of East End Tales is out now with Colin Miller, talking about Tannadice from 1996

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/11735127
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 11 Nov 12:34

The phrase "human rights for all" is political according to FIFA, which says all you need to know about them.

By the way, my understanding of bribery is the act of paying money in expectation of an outcome: ie the outcome doesn`t have to be delivered, just understood that you are paying the money in the hope that it is.

Same idea as if you attempt to buy drugs from a police officer who doesn`t have any drugs, or you sell baking soda but say it`s cocaine.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Fri 11 Nov 13:41

I used to know someone who refereed in the top tier of African football and he told me of a fellow referee who accepted a bribe to ensure a team won. That team didn’t win so the team who paid him the money reported him to the African football federation for taking a bribe 😀
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: nick_dafc1  
Date:   Fri 11 Nov 13:42

Quote:

red-star-par, Thu 10 Nov 19:53

Yeah, it`s a no from me, I`ve got zero enthusiasm for this World Cup, it should have gone to some of the Nations in Africa where there is a genuine passion for the game, rather to the place that paid the highest bribes.
I`ve got to admit, I`m really often stunned when I see people I know going on holiday to places like this. It just shows them up to be people who don`t value human rights, workers rights, women`s rights, LGBT+ rights, who condone slavery and homophobia.
I make them aware of my views on it, and think its high time we start shaming these people, and hopefully that will make others think twice about spending their money supporting such regimes


You would be shaming yourself too, do you own anything made in China? If you do then you are supporting a country that has a hellish treatment of different cultures.
Kids working for nothing making footballs, clothes etc.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 11 Nov 13:48

Quote:

EastEndTales, Fri 11 Nov 10:40

So if you try something illegal and fail, it shouldn`t be punished as harshly as what you intended to do? We`ll have to disagree and move on then.

I`m not saying that at all. I just asked whether any country applies the death penalty for attempted murder. You`ve then inferred that I was implying that it`s less serious.

For the record there was a program I watched a few years ago, if I find it I`ll post a link, that showed that literally every world cup bidders showered the selection committees with gifts etc. Its rotten to the core.

Can`t argue with that.

Blatter came out few days ago saying it was a mistake to award it to Qatar and put the blame on Platini and UEFA.


That`s laughable. Blatter promised Platini he`d succeed him as FIFA President, if he voted for Qatar.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995  
Date:   Fri 11 Nov 14:09

One of the biggest critics Gary Neville has been bumping his gums for months about it but still more than happy to take money for commentary on it.

c'mon the pars
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 11 Nov 14:33

I suppose forty years ago or so we shouldn`t have had any sort of sporting boycott of South Africa`s racist apartheid regime because back then other countries weren`t also behaving in a perfect manner? Maybe everything is just shades of grey and nothing is right or wrong.
That`s the whole point of the sport washing. It doesn`t make a wrong become clean it just dirties the rest of the load so it doesn`t look so bad.
Last season Ilkay Gundogan led a protest of the German national team before an international match against the treatment of migrant workers in Qatar. A noble thing to highlight no doubt. Yet in that same month he would have his bank account stuffed full of cash from a source of equally low reputation.
A number of players have also commented on their dissatisfaction with the Qatari regime but I suspect very few of them would ever turn down the chance to sign a lucrative contract with PSG, Man City or Newcastle.
Im actually looking forward to the World Cup and will watch every match that I can. So yep I`m a hypocrite as well.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 11 Nov 16:54

Quote:

cammypar 1995, Fri 11 Nov 14:09

One of the biggest critics Gary Neville has been bumping his gums for months about it but still more than happy to take money for commentary on it.


Don`t think Beckham is exactly covering himself in glory!
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 11 Nov 17:32

Whether we lean to the ‘yay’ or ‘nay’ side of the argument all that is required of us is to either turn on or turn off a television set. Others have had more difficult decisions to make.

Carlos Gaszely was a Chilean international footballer who supported the Allende government in Chile. When it was overthrown by a military dictatorship 1973 he was not arrested, presumably because as a high profile player he had a degree of protection. His mother however was detained and treated brutally. Despite this, Casgaly turned out in the Santiago national stadium to go through the motions of scoring a goal against a team which had refused to turn up, thereby taking Chile to the 1974 World Cup finals.

The USSR had refused to play in the stadium since it was still being used as a detention/torture centre for opponents of the Pinochet regime. FIFA sent an investigatory body and since the blood had presumably been washed from the walls and electrodes stuffed into the basement, declared the stadium fit for purpose. There was a lingering suspicion that the USSR did not want to play the match at all since defeat to a fascist regime would be humiliating, and FIFA responded to this by eventually offering a neutral venue in Spain. Except that Franco’s Spain was not considered neutral by the Soviets so it was maybe an offer they were expected to refuse.

Gaszely wrote himself into the record books come the World Cup in 1974 by becoming the first player to be shown the newly introduced red card at a WC. His motives for playing are unclear. Perhaps he or his family were threatened. Perhaps he wanted to play for the people of Chile rather than a regime he hated. After that he played successfully in Spain but still turned out for Chile, managing to miss a penalty at the 1982 tournament. He met Pinochet twice at official functions and by his own account, snubbed him.

Gaszaly is still alive and apparently widely respected inside Chile despite playing under the dictatorship. He even exacted revenge of a sort by appearing in an anti-Pinochet political advert during the time of the General’s demise in 1988. He still turns out for an amateur team and scored 29 goals in 48 games for his country.

https://youtu.be/JvNpugXQ9wc

sammer
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Bazzler1981  
Date:   Fri 11 Nov 18:36

Definitely aye for me if you’re going to go on about human rights you can pick fault with every country including Britain, just out of curiosity how many of the social justice warriors posting about human rights have cars or take holidays abroad or even heat there house?? We get a large portion of our gas from Qatar and a decent portion of oil used for petrol comes from other gulf states with similar human rights records,Surely you are being hypocritical too no?? Unless you live like a Buddhist monk you’re a hypocrite, Nick-dafc has a point with china im sure I read somewhere that almost 100% of houses in Britain have an item in them that was produced in china so where’s th outcry for the turkic Muslims who are getting tortured and killed everyday in china?? Like I said we are all hypocrites so not watching a football tournament because of human rights is a farce

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sat 12 Nov 02:57

Are you saying that you think that people can only be critical of stuff in society if they completely stop participating in society?

Were medieval peasants wrong to call for an end to serfdom because they ate bread?

What about the folk who helped end legal slavery, were they massive hypocrites for wearing cotton?


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"


Post Edited (Sat 12 Nov 02:58)
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: WarringtonPar  
Date:   Sat 12 Nov 12:41

Like most on here I’m struggling to find any enthusiasm for this World Cup though to be honest I suspect that will change when kick off comes round. Like Sammer says you can always reach for the switch if you feel that strongly and fair play if you do. What is noticeable is the low take up from advertisers. I’ve seen little evidence of any comps or tokens that you normally associate with this event and literally no evidence of those annoying car flags though that is sure to change down here if England progress in the tournament. ITV’s Luke warm advertising of the event is further evidence of the overall feel for it. One thing though, my views of Both Gary Neville and David Beckham have changed forever. Neither need the vast sums being offered to them and both have proved where their real values lie. Neville especially having so much to say on any topic these days is there with his hand out once the offer reaches 7 figures, it will be interesting to watch how he reconciles his political beliefs with his actions in the future.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 12 Nov 13:36

There will be a period of national mourning if any English players get injured this weekend!
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: DrumRoad  
Date:   Sat 12 Nov 14:24

The OP’s whole ethical question should never had needed to be posted if FIFA had any kind of integrity & gave Quatar a body swerve in light of their well documented human rights breeches not to mention their health & safety disregard whilst building the stadia

2015/16 League one Winners
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Sat 12 Nov 15:39

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Sat 12 Nov 13:36

There will be a period of national mourning if any English players get injured this weekend!


Maddison taken off injured in first half hour today.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sat 12 Nov 22:29

Ref: Wotsit Sat 12 Nov 02:57

"What about the folk who helped end legal slavery, were they massive hypocrites for wearing cotton?"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I`ve been thinking along similar lines. There`s degrees of hypocrisy. And I doubt there`s many people who are going to watch WC matches who support a lack of Human Rights in Qatar. I think most of them would say they agree it`s a bad choice of venue, for all the same reasons that non-watchers give, but they just don`t believe that watching or not watching will make any difference.

On the other hand, it might make a difference to join a campaign, or write to your MP. And how many non-watchers, or watchers, are going to do that?

I`m not attacking non-watchers, I just think it`s wrong to demonise those who are going to watch. It would be different if, to watch, you had first to register support for the Qatar govt - (vote in support of their non-Human Rights) but that`s not the case. And unfortunately, not watching doesn`t register a vote against the Qatar govt either, or I`d certainly not watch.

Put it this way - can anyone who has a grievance against others because they want to watch WC matches from Qatar, show me what harm they would be doing by watching? Any at all?

Like I said, I think it`s good not to watch, if that means you`re true to your principles, but I don`t think that makes it a case of watchers are worse people than non-watchers. Which is how it seems they are characterised by some posters.

I`ve said what I think, as plainly as I can. It`s my point of view. I`m not trying to sell it.

Show me how I`m wrong.

In practical terms, what difference would it make if you or I watch matches from Qatar?



Post Edited (Sat 12 Nov 22:35)
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sat 12 Nov 22:56

I suppose in the 1960s I could have boycotted Rangers coming to EEP since they were clearly a sectarian side. Except we beat them a few times and I was delighted to be there. But if I had decided to boycott these games, what could I have achieved? A local bluenose diehard from the likes of Inverkeithing would have taken my place on the terracing.

Rangers signed a reputedly Catholic player in Mo Johnston many years later, had a Catholic captain Amaruso, and latterly a lapsed Catholic manager in Gerrard. Yet their supporters still lustily sing The Sash at any given opportunity. How am I supposed to answer to that? What more am I supposed to do? Missionary work in Larkhall?

sammer
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sun 13 Nov 08:40

I suppose if you watch then you are endorsing the tournament via overall viewing figures… this in turn will attract advertisers etc - so in your very small part, you will be involved in the ‘success’ of the tournament.

That success will paint the host nation in a good light (which is what they’re paying for), allow them to present themselves as a worthy host for future events (and a good place to do business etc).

I think that very few, if any, individual efforts or decisions will ever make a difference on any subject… but when everyone decides to take that same small action, then it can potentially add up to a lot
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 13 Nov 08:45

Quote:

DrumRoad, Sat 12 Nov 14:24

The OP’s whole ethical question should never had needed to be posted if FIFA had any kind of integrity & gave Quatar a body swerve in light of their well documented human rights breeches not to mention their health & safety disregard whilst building the stadia


FIFA and integrity in the same sentence? 😃😃😃

DR, Qatar handed out over $6 million in bribes to those who were tasked with voting for the 2022 WC venue. This tiny desert state got more votes than the USA, Australia, Japan and South Korea.

If the major footballing nations had banded together immediately after the vote and told FIFA they wouldn`t - under any circumstances - play in Qatar, we wouldn`t be having this discussion. A new venue would have been found.

No way would we have had a WC in Qatar, minus Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy, Spain, France and yes, even England.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sun 13 Nov 11:57

BTW I think this thread is great…

Watch the WC or don’t watch the WC - that’s a personal choice and everyone is free to weigh that up and make their own decision.

What a thread like this does do, is prompt everyone to actually think about other people and hopefully think about those other people (who they might not normally) with a bit of compassion and consider what they can/can’t/should/shouldn’t do with other people in mind.

Perhaps what we should all do is watch the World Cup as normal, but pledge a couple of pound per match we do watch as donation to a human rights charity?
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 13 Nov 12:09

Put it this way - can anyone who has a grievance against others because they want to watch WC matches from Qatar, show me what harm they would be doing by watching? Any at all?

Nobody here has expressed such a grievance that I can see. Any pressure from things said in this thread on those who choose to watch is coming from within themselves as far as I can see, which is causing a few to lash out at those who have, mostly politely, expressed the reasons why they won`t be watching by making accusations of hypocrisy.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sun 13 Nov 12:35

Ref DBP:
Sun 13 Nov 08:40

Hi DBP,

I think it`s incorrect to imagine that if you watch a game of football it automatically becomes part of viewing figures. As I understand the process by which viewing figures are arrived at, they are based on questionnaires that are filled in by a sample of households. I never had such a questionnaire in my life.

Here is an example of an outfit that collects data to estimate viewing figures:

https://www.barb.co.uk/about-us/how-we-do-what-we-do/

They collect data in two ways: by questionnaire, and by automatic data- gathering from online viewing.

I never watch online, I only watch Freesat. So how could they include me in their viewing figures? They can`t. They can only take the word of people in their household panel, and then multiply up based on assumptions made about the population as a whole (demographics). Now if I watch or don`t watch, it makes no difference to the figures. If I write to BARB and say,`I will not watch any Qatar WC football so count me out,` they are not going to adjust the viewing figures by one.

So, as far as I can see, someone who doesn`t watch on terrestrial tv contributes exactly the same as someone who does watch on terrestrial tv, towards `painting the host nation in a good light`, because the demographics are already fixed. Only the people who fill in the questionnaires can have an effect on those viewing figures.

OK, so it appears there is a slight element of support for Qatar if you watch online.

I only have Freesat, which begs the question - Does watching Freesat tv automatically generate viewing data?

https://www.v-net.tv/2016/04/04/how-freesat-uses-data-from-70000-stbs-to-track-viewer-behaviour-in-real-time/

It appears that it doesn`t. According to the article above, only 70,000 boxes, from people who have given consent, send data to be analysed. So if you`re not one of them, you don`t affect their viewing figures.

There are others on this forum who might like to take up the baton from here but, as far as I can see, if someone watches on Freeview and Freesat, unless they`re part of the sample groups, it would make no difference to viewing figures if they watch or not.

Yes DBP, as you say
`when everyone decides to take that same small action, then it can potentially add up to a lot`

Unfortunately, there seems to be no way in which, just by not watching, anyone who is not in the sample groups, could register positive disaproval of the Human Rights failings and omissions in Qatar.

Those who intend to watch online should be aware that their viewing will automatically be counted.



(All in good faith based on the sources given.)



Post Edited (Sun 13 Nov 12:45)
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sun 13 Nov 12:56

I suppose it’s not just registered viewing figures from tv broadcasters that count. If nobody’s bothered or watching, commercial outlets will pick up on sharpish through various measures and will reflect our collective view.

as I said on a follow up thread, it’s an individuals choice and maybe the best solution is to watch it, but watch it cognisant of human rights abuses and do something positive, eg rather than betting on a team - donate the stake to amnesty or Human rights watch? If you don’t gamble, rather than buying beer , donate the prices of a pint? If you can’t afford that, make a formal complaint to FIFA/EUFA - I’m sure their lots of people know lots of ways to do something proactively
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sun 13 Nov 13:16

Good response DBP. Yes, the best way to try and bring about change is to get involved, possibly with organisations already at work on those issues. Same in regard to Sammer`s post earlier - you don`t have to try and think alone of how to deal with sectarianism, there are organisations at work on that problem, e.g.

Nil by Mouth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nil_by_Mouth_(charity)



Post Edited (Sun 13 Nov 13:17)
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 18 Nov 13:59

The Qataris have made a last minute u-turn by banning the sale of alcohol in grounds during matches except in very expensive hospitality boxes. Budweiser which has a $75m sponsorship deal with FIFA is not impressed!

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 18 Nov 14:13

Budweiser will be loving it. Can`t buy this sort of publicity, especially as it also includes promotion for Bud Zero which is still being sold inside stadiums and all this is costing them i selling a few thousand pints in Qatar.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: EastEndTales  
Date:   Fri 18 Nov 14:25

An absolute disgrace of a country. And a disgrace of a beer.

Ep. 4 of East End Tales is out now with Colin Miller, talking about Tannadice from 1996

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/11735127
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: General Zod  
Date:   Fri 18 Nov 15:25

I’m assuming alcohol is banned due to religious reasons? Unless there is money involved? Not just any money but executive money? Honestly, you could t pay me to watch this tournament. It absolutely stinks and anyone who thinks otherwise is basically condoning this backwater countries vile practices.

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 18 Nov 16:25

They`re really not

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Bazzler1981  
Date:   Fri 18 Nov 18:00

Everyone who is going on about Qatars human rights record being horrendous should look at this link
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-11-03/why-is-the-uk-locking-up-people-with-learning-disabilities-indefinitely
You’re going on about human rights in Qatar but where is your concern for peoples human rights in your own country before worrying about what’s happening in foreign countries.


DBP- viewing figures aren’t going to attract advertising slots for advertising are sold way before the tournament starts, tournament success is measured on a number of factors mainly being how the tournament was ran, the quality of the games, fan experience etc etc

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Fri 18 Nov 18:36

Agreed, but company promotions during the event, depth of write ups in magazine articles, adverts and merchandising materials using World Cup imagery, even future adverts will be based on the popularity of the event driven by viewing figures
These things are self feeding, the more we watch, the more we will see/hear about it, the more we watch, the more qatar win be normalised and presented positively - which is what they’re trying to achieve

Post Edited (Fri 18 Nov 18:37)
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Fri 18 Nov 18:41

Great point Bazzler. What some people fail to recognise is that Western Europe isn’t representative of the world, and this is a World Cup. The alcohol ban is because the Middle East is largely an alcohol free area of the world, and having alcohol in the fan zones is Qatar making an exemption for the rest of the world. When the world cup was hosted by South Africa some organisations tried to get vuvulezas banned because of the background noise coming through tvs, but this is how they do things in that part of the world and should be acknowledged as opposed to westerners trying to change them to our culture.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 18 Nov 19:18

Any chance of getting Badeill & Skinner banned?💩💩💩
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 19 Nov 14:37

So decided to practice what i was preaching…

Joined sky bet and put £10 on Argentina to win, got a free bet of a tenner which went each way on Portugal
…and made a one-off £10 donation (matching what I put into sky bet) to amnesty international.

Not trying to remove any guilt for watching, but wanting to watch with awareness of the issues and trying to make a small difference
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: EastEndTales  
Date:   Sat 19 Nov 14:39

I`m each way on Germany.

Ep. 4 of East End Tales is out now with Colin Miller, talking about Tannadice from 1996

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/11735127
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Sat 19 Nov 15:03

dd23, Qatar got given the World Cup on the basis of their bid document. In it they said it would be a summer tournament with air conditioning in the stadiums and fan zones (it isn`t, and there`s barely shade in the fan zones, let alone air con), that everyone would be welcomed (except LGBTQI+ fans aren`t made welcome, even the press who have proper accreditation and documentation aren`t as seen by the Danish crew told to move on during a live broadcast the other day), that there would be plenty of accommodation and things to do when not at the games (there`s nowhere near enough accommodation even with the container hotels, the cruise ships and the tents, hence people staying in the UAE and further then flying or driving in), that it would be a Green tournament with the games being so close together (which a recent report has shown to he nonsense) and that fans would experience everything that they`d normally experience in a World Cup, including alcohol at the games and in the fan zones (another U turn unless you`re wealthy enough to be in the posh seats. It`s nothing to do with booze or culture or anything else, it`s to do with lies during the bid and corruption on a massive scale.

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: EastEndTales  
Date:   Sat 19 Nov 15:49

I`m currently watching Fifa Uncovered and it`s blatantly obvious that money going to Fifa Exec board members drove the decision, nothing else. Same with Russia.

Ep. 4 of East End Tales is out now with Colin Miller, talking about Tannadice from 1996

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/11735127
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Sat 19 Nov 17:07

I`ve £10 on England, I cannot lose. If they win the cup I get £90 and if they get put out I get the enjoyment of hearing that they lost.

matt forsyth
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: fergie  
Date:   Sat 19 Nov 17:10

Quote:

EastEndTales, Sat 19 Nov 15:49

I`m currently watching Fifa Uncovered and it`s blatantly obvious that money going to Fifa Exec board members drove the decision, nothing else. Same with Russia.


Watched the same on Netflix and it proved what we all knew that FIFA is nothing to do with football and only there to trouser what they can. The only way to hurt them is to start boycotting their sponsor`s like coke etc. I am gonna stick to irn bru going forward lol
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: EastEndTales  
Date:   Sat 19 Nov 17:38

Can`t remember the last time I had Cola or Budweiser. A bloody joke of a beer.

Ep. 4 of East End Tales is out now with Colin Miller, talking about Tannadice from 1996

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/11735127
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sat 19 Nov 17:49

Cola?!

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: EastEndTales  
Date:   Sat 19 Nov 18:24

[Post Deleted] - Rude or abusive message
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sat 19 Nov 19:51

Quote:

EastEndTales, Sat 19 Nov 18:24

Of any kind actually. Pedantic pr1ck 🤣


Sassy

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 20 Nov 08:34

Quote:

kelty_par, Sat 19 Nov 15:03

Qatar got given the World Cup on the basis of their bid document.


Allegedly, KP.

Cynical old farts like me think they got it by by shelling out over $6 million to FIFA Confederation delegates for their votes. They`d have gleaned precisely 0 votes otherwise. Who in their right mind would have voted for such a bizarre venue for football - only the Sahara or Antartica would be slightly worse. And that`s before considering their human rights records.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 20 Nov 09:53

I don`t think there is anything wrong with the venue as such in terms of footballing conditions. Yes it will be warm but no warmer than could be reasonably expected in a summer would cup in say Italy or Spain. In fact had the world cup took place this year in Europe then the heatwave that swept the continent could have surely made playing football near impossible.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sun 20 Nov 13:35

Expect to see the stadiums on one of those YouTube channels in years to come, the channels covering unused buildings!
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 20 Nov 13:44

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Sun 20 Nov 13:35

Expect to see the stadiums on one of those YouTube channels in years to come, the channels covering unused buildings!


The human cost of building these soon-to-become white elephants is horrendous.

Message for you in Off Topic, if you can tear yourself away from the opening match, L.A. I can just see you in front of the telly, with your Qatari top and scarf.......



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Sun 20 Nov 18:11

Quote:

dd23, Fri 18 Nov 18:41

Great point Bazzler. What some people fail to recognise is that Western Europe isn’t representative of the world, and this is a World Cup. The alcohol ban is because the Middle East is largely an alcohol free area of the world, and having alcohol in the fan zones is Qatar making an exemption for the rest of the world. When the world cup was hosted by South Africa some organisations tried to get vuvulezas banned because of the background noise coming through tvs, but this is how they do things in that part of the world and should be acknowledged as opposed to westerners trying to change them to our culture.


Ahhhh the vuvuzela (s) at Starks Park. Still one of the funniest things I have seen at football.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 10:36

The football squad of the hosts are, no fault of theirs, hopelessly poorly equipped to compete at this level.You’re as well giving the next world camel racing finals to Iceland

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 10:42

Quote:

Parboiled, Mon 21 Nov 10:36

The football squad of the hosts are, no fault of theirs, hopelessly poorly equipped to compete at this level.You’re as well giving the next world camel racing finals to Iceland


They were really poor.Hard to believe they are Asian champions.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 13:26

Quote:

parathletic, Mon 21 Nov 10:42

Quote:

Parboiled, Mon 21 Nov 10:36

The football squad of the hosts are, no fault of theirs, hopelessly poorly equipped to compete at this level.You’re as well giving the next world camel racing finals to Iceland


They were really poor.Hard to believe they are Asian champions.


That`s possibly a title that can be won if the opposition and officials are bought and paid for
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 14:05

Oh dear, England are 3 up at half time. The pundits are gushing. They`ve got them winning it already.

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 14:07

How poor are Iran?

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 15:06

Let the English pundits get excited as it just makes it all the sweeter when they fall flat on their face
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 15:17

"They were really poor.Hard to believe they are Asian champions. "

After seeing how bad Iran are, may be not so hard to believe?

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 15:55

Quote:

Lambo1885, Mon 21 Nov 15:17

"They were really poor.Hard to believe they are Asian champions. "

After seeing how bad Iran are, may be not so hard to believe?


Had the exact same thoughts myself 😀
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 15:57

It`s coming home etc etc

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 16:17

Iran ranked 20 in the world ?

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 16:18

Classic question when you get scores like this - were the winning team amazing, or did they look amazing because the losing team were keech?

I didn`t watch much of the game but it looked pretty clear that England would win. Iran seemed to be hoping to hit on the counter. Perhaps losing their keeper impacted on things but that`s pushing it.

One swallow does not a summer make, but that`s a cracking result for England.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 17:01

Just watched the first half of Netherlands v Senegal. No goals so far but the skill and sheer pace of the game is on a different level to the first two matches. Having two well matched teams makes for a better contest obviously. England`s build up play is very laborious in comparison to either of these teams.

sammer
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 17:26

Based on the 2nd half performance Dunfermline would give these 2 a game , awful viewing

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 17:27

65 mins in and that`s the first shot on target for Senegal. The game looks quicker mainly because neither side are trying to put 11 men behind the ball. The second half has been littered with mistakes. The pace of Saka, Rashford, Grealish and Foden would cause either of these sides bother. England`s problems are at the back.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 17:42

England should deal with anyone from this group pretty comfortably,

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 17:59

England will annihilate Senegal.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 19:37

Quote:

londonparsfan, Mon 21 Nov 17:59

England will annihilate Senegal.


You`re presuming they`ll get out of their group. I think England more likely to meet Ecuador.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 20:36

Could well be. Either way England will put them away comfortably.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 23:21

There`s a defensive vulnerability about England. But for horrible finishing, Iran could, and probably should, have scored 4 or 5. Better teams will be looking to exploit England`s frailty at the back.

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 21 Nov 23:48

I suspect that LPF has gone native.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 22 Nov 00:01

I`ve got them going out in the Quarters when they are likely to meet France if the games up to that point go as expected. Even then I don`t think it`s a foregone conclusion but I do think you can get at the English but you`ve got to keep them out at the other end which isn`t easy. I might well be wrong but i think they`re comfortably better than Wales, the US and whoever comes second in Group A.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Tue 22 Nov 09:35

I also had England going out to France in the quarters but losing Benzema is a blow for them.
Pickford and Maguire have a mistake in them though and it could cost them at some point.England have also lost twice to Hungary this year with an aggregate score of 5-0 and yesterday was their first win in 7 so I don`t think they are as strong as they were a few years ago.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Tue 22 Nov 10:04

I`d be wary of paying too much attention on the Nations League campaign.

England must have been on a massive downer following the loss in the final of the Euros. Their first game after that was an away tie in Hungary and they hammered them 4-0 - and went on to qualify with ease.

The Europa League campaign was likely an inconvenient side-show, starting at the end of the 2021/22 season, when the players had been absolutely rinsed due to the delayed covid season and the Euros in 2021. From memory, England didn`t play their games against Italy and Hungary at Wembley and didn`t play all of their first XI. They didn`t win any games, and Germany won 1 out of 6, but they`re both at the world cup and Hungary and Italy aren`t.

Southgate has turned them into a side that sails through qualifying and which turns up at the big tournaments. Yesterday, they played a side which doesn`t typically give away many goals and ran them ragged. Then, midway through the 2nd half, they bring on Foden and Grealish to run at tired defenders. They`ll not win it, but I think they`ll do better than anyone thought - especially if they were giving too much weight into recent results.



Post Edited (Tue 22 Nov 11:49)
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: EastEndTales  
Date:   Tue 22 Nov 10:11

Nations League, I don`t think England were relegated THAT far.

Ep. 4 of East End Tales is out now with Colin Miller, talking about Tannadice from 1996

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/11735127
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 22 Nov 10:18

You play Thursdays cos you`re... 😉

But I do agree the Nations League was different for a few sides this year in that they were trying players with a view to the World Cup rather than trying to win the tournament.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Tue 22 Nov 11:16

Fascinating game between Argentina and Saudi Arabia...

2-1 Saudi...

So much for Asian football being crap...

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Tue 22 Nov 11:52

Changed it now. Old age and all that.

"So much for Asian football being crap.."

Qatar and Iran haven`t exactly set the pulses racing so far. And, to be fair, this is funny but it`s an absolute mugging. Argentina must have been bored of putting the ball in the net after the first half, only went in 1-0 up, came out in the 2nd half expecting the same and suddenly found themselves behind - good goals mind you. They`ve been in panic mode ever since.

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 22 Nov 12:08

That`s a coupon buster for sure.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Tue 22 Nov 12:17

I wouldn`t say that was an absolute mugging at all. The Saudis defended comfortably and professionally. Can think of very few clear cut chances for Argentina. The offside goals were offside because of a disciplined defensive back line.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie  
Date:   Tue 22 Nov 12:25

VAR playing a big part there.

Two goals to the naked eye wouldn`t have been disallowed for offside in real time. They wouldn`t come back from 2-0 and at 3-0 the game is out of sight.

And in fairness without VAR there wouldn`t have been a penalty....

---------------------------------------------------------------


"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Tue 22 Nov 12:28

Argentina had 70% possession, 16 shots on goal vs 3 for the Saudis and they scored with their only two shots on target - in a 5-minute spell after half time, before the game fell back into the pattern of the first half.

They then defended in numbers, kicked anything that moved and wasted time.

All credit to them though. They were only ever going to get a win by doing it this way, and to manage it after falling behind is borderline unbelievable. It was a mugging though, but also why we all love football.

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Tue 22 Nov 12:41

Argentina started with 6 players over 30 (four over 33). They are not going to win the World Cup with an age profile like that.

It was no mugging... the Saudis were literally head and shoulders above them in terms of fitness. They played a high line well and defended as a team. They took their chances when they got them and were always dangerous on the counter. That second goal is bound to be a contender for goal of the tournament. Beautiful footwork.

VAR did its job. The disallowed goals were offside.

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Tue 22 Nov 13:21

I`m not sure what their age has to do with it.

The Saudis defended in numbers, rode their luck (especially in the first half) scored with their two shots on target, and held out for a famous victory. It was a mugging/smash & grab/whatever footballing parlance you prefer.

I don`t begrudge it as I`m not an Argentina fan. Indeed, it is what makes the World Cup great - and the Saudis deserve huge praise for their effort, commitment and two really good goals.

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 22 Nov 13:52

^I`d tend to agree with that. The Saudis didn`t exactly play them off the park for the 90 minutes but then they didn`t have to. Crucially they put the ball in the back of the net one more time than Argentina did and then defended manfully riding their luck when they had to for the rest of the game. Deserved their win but it was a bit of a smash and grab.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Tue 22 Nov 14:08

I think Ozpar is correct: age has got something to do with it. Coaches know the bulk of any professional team should ideally be aged 23-28, which is middle aged in a footballer’s lifespan. Six players starting aged over 30 is a serious imbalance and I would expect that to be changed for Argentina’s next game. They lost their first game to Cameroon in 1990 which was seen as a major shock but still made the final.

sammer
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Tue 22 Nov 14:16

Aye, but age had nothing to do with the debate as to whether it was a mugging or not.

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 22 Nov 21:58

Big rumour that Kane has an ankle injury and is getting a scan done!
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Wed 23 Nov 11:55

Beginning of day 4, 9 games played and 3 0-0 draws.There was only one in the whole of the last World Cup!
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Wed 23 Nov 13:07

Quote:

parathletic, Wed 23 Nov 11:55

Beginning of day 4, 9 games played and 3 0-0 draws.There was only one in the whole of the last World Cup!


Qatar officials on to FIFA right now demanding more goals ?

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Wed 23 Nov 15:01

Germany v Japan was a great game there to be fair.Another minor upset.
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Wed 23 Nov 20:47

Is there a worse team there than Costa Rica?

No shots in 90 mins




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: Big T Par  
Date:   Thu 24 Nov 00:43

The amount of empty seats at the games is unreal.

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 Re: World Cup 2022 - Yay or Nay?
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Sun 27 Nov 15:13

Pleasing to see Japan and Belgium come unstuck today.Both showed a lack of intent and looked pleased to take a draw.Once their opponents took the lead suddenly their urgency increased.
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