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 Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Thu 1 Dec 20:58

Wow ..
Japan 2 Spain 1
Japan through as group winners and looks like Spain through as runners up.
Costa Rica and Germany go out.
Ah didnae see that wan comin 😳

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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Thu 1 Dec 21:08

Was that ball over the bye line FIFA ?

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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: JnrB  
Date:   Thu 1 Dec 21:09

Spain were 100% content with that result. Gives them a more favourable draw coming 2nd in the group.
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Thu 1 Dec 21:15

Team spirit matters as McPake has shown at EEP this year. It matters even more I’m sure when your players are cloistered together for a tournament like the World Cup. Belgium and Germany are out, two teams who don’t seem to have a good vibe to them. Contrast that to Costa Rica who exhumed themselves after a 7-0 thrashing and were barely 10 minutes away from going through.

But pride of place must go to Japan who have come back to win from losing positions against Argentina and Spain. That is an almighty achievement, especially since they were being passed off the park by Spain in the first half. After the break Japan were able to speed up the tempo during an intense period of high energy running at the Spanish defence. Everybody looks good when they have time on the ball but Spain cracked under the pressure. Japan fully deserved to go through and their manager, who just smiles most of the time, and the players all seem to really enjoy what they are doing.

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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Thu 1 Dec 21:16

If 1mm of the ball is overhanging any part of the bye line, then it’s not out. The goal was legit. Sourness doesn’t know the rules and doesn’t understand parallax errors.

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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 1 Dec 21:35

I was surprised the ref allowed the goal because, to the naked eye, the ball looked over the line and I think, without the intervention of VAR, nobody would have queried it if it had been disallowed.

Japan still lack the physicality of other teams but more than compensate for it with their energy, will to win and never-say-die attitude. They were also very well-organised, especially in the second half. Their manager seems a cool dude too.



Post Edited (Thu 01 Dec 21:41)
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Thu 1 Dec 21:57

The ref looked to the linesman whose view was obscured by a Japanese player sliding in and the Spain keeper, so they just left it to VAR. Without VAR, they might’ve disallowed it, and it was so close they couldn’t really be blamed either way.

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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 07:48

The referee didn`t allow it? A few seconds after the ball went in the flag was raised and the referee then told Spain to wait before taking the bye kick so they could check. He didn`t signal for a goal and the linesman didn`t either.

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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 08:24

Without VAR this would undoubtedly have been chalked off - one example where VAR does in fact work but it just shows what an impossible job linesmen have in deciding when the ball is out for corners and throw ins - how many times have we screamed that the ball is clearly out when it may not have been? - maybe the rule should be changed? Incredibly frustrating that the commentators and “experts” in the studio don’t understand the rules.

Andy J
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 08:29

With the technology around now and a chip in the ball it`s surely only a matter of time before this can be dealt with.It`s a black and white call.
There are constantly instances of linesmen giving throw-ins when it`s clear the full ball hasn`t gone out and they are standing right next to it.This would have been ruled out 99 times out of 100 without VAR.
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: EastEndTales  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 08:38

I think human error has a place in football. That might sound crazy.

Ep. 6 of East End Tales is out now with AUSTIN McCANN! Reminisce with us about the big Fife derby in 2011, otherwise known as BMMMH day!

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/12099928
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 09:07

Quote:

EastEndTales, Fri 2 Dec 08:38

I think human error has a place in football. That might sound crazy.


Agree 100% with this. Goal line tech is acceptable but VAR is killing the game

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 09:20

I don’t think the VAR technology itself is killing the game, it’s delivering what it is expected to.

It worked perfectly for the Japan goal, showed all the angles and evidenced that curvature of the ball was on the line, so it’s a goal as per the current rule set

If VAR wasn’t there goal wouldn’t have stood.

It’s the use of VAR by the referees that is killing it for me, they need to get to decisions a lot quicker and try hold the same standard across all matches.

Post Edited (Fri 02 Dec 09:24)
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 09:24

Quote:

da_no_1, Fri 2 Dec 09:07

Quote:

EastEndTales, Fri 2 Dec 08:38

I think human error has a place in football. That might sound crazy.


Agree 100% with this. Goal line tech is acceptable but VAR is killing the game


I`m not keen on VAR either.Goal line technology, offside etc is OK with me as it`s a black and white call and there is no subjectivity.Watching slo-mo replays of fouls can be misleading not to mention time consuming.

£1.2 million a year it costs the Scottish clubs. Surely that money could be invested more wisely elsewhere?
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 09:25

Football is a much better game when the decisions are correct and can be shown to be so.
VAR is the best and most innovative thing to happen to football since nets.
Hopefully it will be utilised more and more and work quicker which is all it needs.
They`ve nearly got it correct at this WC and it will only improve.
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 09:42

Quote:

moviescot, Fri 2 Dec 09:25

Football is a much better game when the decisions are correct and can be shown to be so.
VAR is the best and most innovative thing to happen to football since nets.
Hopefully it will be utilised more and more and work quicker which is all it needs.
They`ve nearly got it correct at this WC and it will only improve.


^^^ Agree

If that was Scotland playing Spain and that goal was chalked-off this may have been a different forum.

VAR is in its infancy and can only improve.

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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 09:48

In my opinion it hasn`t improved the game in any way. Anything that involves more people taking longer to make a subjective decision does nothing to improve the quality of the game.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 09:53

Until last night who (apart from refs presumably) knew that it was the curvature of the ball in relation to the line rather than the point of contact with the line that determined whether a ball was out of play or not? That means without the introduction of VAR and goal-line technology it was nigh impossible for a human to judge whether the law had been broken or not. An AR looking along the line with an unimpeded view might be able to make the call but the ideal position would be in mid air directly above the ball!

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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 10:09

Surely everyone knew it was the whole of the ball that needed to be over the line? I think we`ve all seen the goal line technology decisions with the little graphic that comes up with the top down image of the ball over or not over the line. Heck even hawk eye at Wimbledon works using the whole ball over the line.
Japan scored a perfectly legitimate goal that the ref wasn`t going to allow. Thankfully var was able to correct his mistake.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 10:11

I`d rather they improved the standard of officials.A poor decision can just as easily be made watching a TV screen as on the park as has been proven recently.


Here is the best view of the goal I`ve seen looking along the line.

https://www.tiktok.com/@randombitz4u/video/7172305667754052870?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=mobile&sender_web_id=7132486235253212677
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 10:15

I, and I suspect most others, knew the rule but hadn’t really thought it through until VAR (correctly) made us do so last night - maybe the rule needs to change and not VAR. Without VAR Japan would wrongly now be out of the World Cup - there will still be wrong decisions (there have already been a couple of questionable penalties generally favouring the “bigger” teams) but more of the big decisions will be right.

It’s dead easy to say things were better without it - just wait for the outcry if Falkirk get a winning goal in the New Year game when we’re all convinced the ball was nowhere near crossing the line.

Andy J
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 10:18

for me, if we`re using VAR to more accurately get decisions correct that`s fine... but unlike many other sports using VAR, football is a much more flowing game without so many routine stoppages to play.

i think if we`re going to continue with VAR, then we have to accept it is going to fundamentally change our game `flow` and look to the best way to deal with that for players, officials and fans alike.

this could mean things like: `flags on the play` from increased officials to allow those everyone is comfortable with to keep going, introducing a game clock, so that live game time is monitored as opposed to what seems like subjective / unknown additional time, etc

i don`t think we can just bury our heads or sit and complain - i`d rather we accepted it was being adopted and spend some energy looking at how best to fit it into and enhance the game as opposed to trying to shoe-horn it in to the current approach/expectations

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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 10:41

Quote:

DBP, Fri 2 Dec 10:18

for me, if we`re using VAR to more accurately get decisions correct that`s fine... but unlike many other sports using VAR, football is a much more flowing game without so many routine stoppages to play.

i think if we`re going to continue with VAR, then we have to accept it is going to fundamentally change our game `flow` and look to the best way to deal with that for players, officials and fans alike.

this could mean things like: `flags on the play` from increased officials to allow those everyone is comfortable with to keep going, introducing a game clock, so that live game time is monitored as opposed to what seems like subjective / unknown additional time, etc

i don`t think we can just bury our heads or sit and complain - i`d rather we accepted it was being adopted and spend some energy looking at how best to fit it into and enhance the game as opposed to trying to shoe-horn it in to the current approach/expectations


Cricket and tennis have adapted it to suit their needs and to keep up speed of play.In theory both of them could be fully automated(I think some tennis already has been?) If a player has run out of challenges/reviews the umpires call stands even if the technology is there to show the decision was wrong which I`m not sure I agree with either.It`s a tough one to find a balance on.

On the whole I think it has been utilised pretty well in the World Cup to be fair.The Welsh keeper would have escaped the only red card so far?

Post Edited (Fri 02 Dec 10:44)
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: Parsweep  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 10:55

Quote:

da_no_1, Fri 2 Dec 09:07

Quote:

EastEndTales, Fri 2 Dec 08:38

I think human error has a place in football. That might sound crazy.


Agree 100% with this. Goal line tech is acceptable but VAR is killing the game


Can`t believe I`m agreeing with da lol !

Bobvo
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 11:40

Never having attended a match where VAR is operating I find it hard to imagine the emotions fans experience while waiting for a VAR decision, especially if there`s no attempt to show the process to the fans as happens in most other sports. The best feeling at a match is probably to see your team score and a quick check that the ref and AR are happy confirms the goal stands. Taking away that certainty is a downside of VAR but I suppose it just adds another element of tension and suspense.

It`s all very well to say human error is part of sport but everyone involved in football complains about the lack of consistency in referees` decisions and VAR was meant to address that but of course replays of incidents are always subject to interpretation so we still have human error. Isn`t it the case that some of the Laws of the Game have been rewritten in an attempt to standardise VAR interpretations (eg handball, fouls or offside arising in first phase or second phase, etc)? Trying to clarify things has just added to confusion.

There has always been more luck in football than most were prepared to admit and a lot of it related to refereeing decisions. I don`t think VAR has changed that but I think it has probably improved the overall standard of decision-making.

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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: Parfect69  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 12:17

I’m glad VAR wasn’t around when Frank Lampards effort wasn’t given. ;-)
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: Ben,D.A  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 12:19

I you look at corners being taken, some players place the ball outside the curve and the linesman is standing over him checking no rule was broken.
I`m not sure if any far side linesman could make a decision considering there were 2 goal post, at least 12 pair of legs with the ball and the line basically hidden. A good call from VAR.

only 11 make the team,the rest can just but dream.
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 12:21

Quote:

wee eck, Fri 2 Dec 09:53

Until last night who (apart from refs presumably) knew that it was the curvature of the ball in relation to the line rather than the point of contact with the line that determined whether a ball was out of play or not?


Pretty much anyone whose taken a corner this century, and most folk who have watched one being taken.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 12:41

Well, there a few pundits who had played professional football who didn`t seem to know. Probably every schoolkid knows the whole of the ball has to cross the line for the ball to be out of play but the terminology `curvature of the ball` was new to me. Looking down over a stationary ball at a corner kick is a lot different from looking along a line at a moving ball.

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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 17:38

VAR has to stay, the process will improve in time.

If only it was in place for Henry’s handball that essentially stopped Ireland from reaching the majors.

Hippolyte’s acrobatic dive for the penalty against us which killed off any chance we had of getting promoted that year - think we still had a chance of playoffs?

Any other stinkers that immediately come to mind?
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 17:47

Balde handball
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 18:26

Ashcroft getting sent off in the playoff v Dundee Utd
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 18:39

World Cup final 1966

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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: EastEndTales  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 18:46

Lambert`s dive at East End

Ep. 6 of East End Tales is out now with AUSTIN McCANN! Reminisce with us about the big Fife derby in 2011, otherwise known as BMMMH day!

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/12099928
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 Re: Japan Vs Spain
Topic Originator: Jeffery  
Date:   Fri 2 Dec 18:55

Dorrans red card for handball at Hamilton last December.

Lost 1-0 because of that penalty. We were on top until he went. Replays showed it was very harsh and the red was rescinded, unfortunately the lost points are never returned...

Last season it did feel like these things weren't balancing themselves out.

Post Edited (Sat 03 Dec 00:43)
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