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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 19 May 11:16
A single club ( or two at most) dominating their domestic league is not a new phenomenon but it has gradually taken hold in many different countries. The biggest clubs have become richer, often at the expense of smaller rivals, giving their leagues a lopsided, unhealthy appearance. The only fans who aren`t concerned by this are the fans of those dominant clubs;
Celtic, Man City, Bayern, PSG, Real/Barca, *Juventus etc. Even smaller countries like Greece, have Olympiakos winning their league on a regular basis. *Came unstuck this season after winning 9 in a row.
What`s the answer to this problem? Some of the big clubs thought they had the solution with the European Super League proposal, which was thankfully booted out of the park - for now. Only the EPL is likely to offer a serious challenge to Man City, because several clubs have owners with deep pockets. To the likes of Chelsea, Man U and Liverpool, you can now add Arsenal and Newcastle - not sure about Spurs.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Fri 19 May 11:24
The Americans combat this issue by having a draft system in which the lowest ranked team pick the best youth prospects. This would of course need the youth system to be overhauled but would certainly help the smaller clubs grow.
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Topic Originator: arpar
Date: Fri 19 May 11:47
Juventus haven`t won the last 3 titles. Inter then Milan then Napoli so a bit of variety now.
Post Edited (Fri 19 May 11:47)
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 19 May 12:10
" Juventus haven`t won the last 3 titles. Inter then Milan then Napoli so a bit of variety now."
My badđ I`ve either been holidaying on Mars or had a brain fart. đ
ETA. Never mind the nit picking, arpar. Answer the question. đ
Post Edited (Fri 19 May 12:20)
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Topic Originator: parathletic
Date: Fri 19 May 12:45
It would be interesting to see comparisons pre and post Champions League.It seems it has been to the detriment of domestic football with financial gaps widening? Of course,there are exceptions to the rule like Newcastle although they haven`t won anything yet.
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Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Fri 19 May 12:58
In the NFL all attendance money except hospitality is pooled and split evenly between the teams
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 19 May 13:28
Could the fact that `clubs` in the US operate as franchises have an impact on how income and other assets like players are allocated? Parties may not be interested in acquiring a franchise unless there are some guarantees in place re share of income etc. In the past franchises have moved locations to a different city, presumably for commercial reasons, so there is obviously a big emphasis on profitability. On the other hand, is there promotion and relegation to and from the major leagues in US sports?
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Fri 19 May 13:33
Quote:
weemike, Fri 19 May 11:24
The Americans combat this issue by having a draft system in which the lowest ranked team pick the best youth prospects. This would of course need the youth system to be overhauled but would certainly help the smaller clubs grow.
What if the lower rank clubs canât offer a significant wage structure ?
In the US even the âpoorerâ teams pay big dollars.
We simply do not have comparable structures.
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Fri 19 May 14:22
Of the leagues you`ve listed, the EPL is the most competitive and it`s not that good. Even with Arsenal playing out or their skins early season there was a sense of inevitably around City catching them - with City hitting form at the exact same time as Arsenal got hit by some key injuries, and big players losing form.
Even as an Arsenal sympathiser, I can`t see them mounting as strong a challenge next year, without huge investment, which I`m not sure they can afford. Kroenke`s pockets don`t come close to to Sheikh Mansour`s - and Man City already have a head start. The only way I see Man City being derailed will be if some of the FA charges stick, and I can`t see that happening with the amount of money City are spending on legal fees to defend themselves.
It`s a sad state of affairs, but I also don`t see any easy solutions - Football is just following the global trend of wealth centralisation and unless some of the wealthy are incentivised to spread their wealth, nothing will change soon.
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Fri 19 May 14:48
Quote:
veteraneastender, Fri 19 May 13:33
Quote:
weemike, Fri 19 May 11:24
The Americans combat this issue by having a draft system in which the lowest ranked team pick the best youth prospects. This would of course need the youth system to be overhauled but would certainly help the smaller clubs grow.
What if the lower rank clubs canât offer a significant wage structure ?
In the US even the âpoorerâ teams pay big dollars.
We simply do not have comparable structures.
They are not comparable, the only way something like this would work would be if the youth structure was something along the lines of the league or Uefa owning the 18-21 year olds on set wages,
When a youth player becomes 18 he is eligible for the draft, Peterhead choose him, he plays 3 years at peterhead (improving them as he is better quality) and then at 21 he is available to purchase with a % going to the owning body( spl or uefa) and a % going to peterhead
This way the SPL create revenue to fund grassroots and pay the set wages, Peterhead get some sort of income and an Improved squad.
It would require a complete overhaul but it would stop all young kids with the slightest bit of promise being hoovered up and then left on the scrap heap.
I`m just brainstorming here but our game needs a complete overhaul to some degree as it is somewhat stale.
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Topic Originator: 1985Par
Date: Fri 19 May 15:19
I suppose most leagues are dominated by a few big clubs but the problem seems particularly acute in Scotland where the current league leaders are 41 points ahead of 3rd place and only 1 team outside the top 2 has a positive goal difference. ( Hearts +5)
It seems like our top league is nothing more than a vehicle to take Rangers and Celtic to the champions league and, although i want the best for DAFC, it`s an annual ritual that i don`t really want to be part of.
I propose that the other clubs in the premiership conspire with say the top half of the championship to create a breakaway league. Do we need Rangers and Celtic or do they need us? If they want to play each other 38 times a season then let them.
Wishful thinking, i know.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 19 May 17:00
Quote:
1985Par, Fri 19 May 15:19
I suppose most leagues are dominated by a few big clubs but the problem seems particularly acute in Scotland where the current league leaders are 41 points ahead of 3rd place and only 1 team outside the top 2 has a positive goal difference. ( Hearts +5)
It seems like our top league is nothing more than a vehicle to take Rangers and Celtic to the champions league and, although i want the best for DAFC, it`s an annual ritual that i don`t really want to be part of.
I propose that the other clubs in the premiership conspire with say the top half of the championship to create a breakaway league. Do we need Rangers and Celtic or do they need us? If they want to play each other 38 times a season then let them.
Wishful thinking, i know.
The thing that hacks me off is that the big clubs go out of their way to screw the smaller ones - offering derisive sums for transfers, or even tapping players up and getting them for free. Football clubs are not supermarkets. Football leagues need several strong clubs, not just one or two as is the case in the Scottish Premiership. I`d like the Pars to get there, but like Bandy, I don`t fancy watching us getting scudded most weeks.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sat 20 May 08:48
I had a quick look at the MLB draft system in the USA from last year - the first pick would attract a salary offer of $8 million plus.
Players at the lower end of the draft are looking at around $2 to $3 million.
There simply isnât enough money in the Scottish game to adopt a similar model, even in principle.
NFL appears to work a different scenario - possibly because players can progress more quickly to the big league lineups.
Post Edited (Sat 20 May 08:49)
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Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Sat 20 May 09:41
I think the Bosman ruling and the scrapping of the 3 foreigner rule caused the increase in the rich-poor gap.
The SPL was fairly competitive before that. Celtic finished 5th in 89-90 just 4 points ahead of newly promoted Pars.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 24 May 17:18
I see the United Rugby Championship in which Edinburgh and Glasgow compete are worried about the lack of real competition at the top and bottom ends of their league which they think isn`t helped by a lack of promotion and relegation. A draft system is one of the options they are considering.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Wed 24 May 19:28
To answer a previous question - the major sports in the USA do not have promotion and relegation as we know it.
My basic knowledge is MLB - there are no teams of sufficient stature below the level of the American and National league franchises that can step up - and the pyramid structure is not based on that model.
Where there may be promising conditions for new MLB status clubs the leagues can and do allow new potential franchises to bid to locate in specific cities - but that`s a long and detailed procedure, underpinned by really big finance considerations.
There is stiff competition between cities to make a winning case.
Occassionally an established franchise decides its interests are elsewhere and simply up and move. The San Francisco Giants and Los Angeles Dodgers departed New York decades ago and relocated in California.
There are three levels of professional baseball below MLB - AAA, AA and A, the triple A clubs fly to their way games.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Wed 24 May 23:07
There are some lessons for Scottish football from the MLB, but it is not a perfect model, mainly due to the lack of promotion and relegation.
Like in the SPFL, national television rights represent the highest proportion of MLB income, but these revenues are split evenly among the clubs.
Notably, a portion of the revenues generated by the most prominent teams is distributed among lower-revenue teams. The goal is to help smaller-market teams compete with larger-market teams by providing them with additional financial resources.
The MLB has a luxury tax, often called the "salary cap." It is designed to create a financial disincentive for teams exceeding a predetermined player payroll threshold.
The luxury tax threshold is set each year, and teams exceeding this threshold must pay a tax on the overage amount. The revenue generated from the luxury tax is then redistributed to the teams that did not exceed the threshold.
This mechanism aims to prevent large-market teams from significantly outspending smaller-market teams and helps maintain competitive balance.
There is much to be said for the player draft system instead of our existing transfer system, but its main problem is that it directly contradicts the Bosman Ruling.
Trades involve the exchange of players between teams, often with additional considerations like cash or draft picks. Free agency allows players with expiring contracts to sign with any team that offers them a contract. Waivers provide a mechanism for teams to release players, and if unclaimed, the player can be assigned to a minor league team.
Incidentally, Aussie Rules adopts a similar model to the MLB, which generally sees clubs` success ebb and flow in a manner the SPFL could only dream about. There have been seven winners of the AFL premiership in the last ten years.
In practical terms, it would be sensible for the SPFL to restructure its financial operations like MLB and Aussie Rules. However, we know that the Old Firm and probably two or three bigger clubs would stop it.
Scottish football seems cursed by a never-ending cycle of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Thu 25 May 08:50
There is nothing stopping the spfl having a model where all players under 21 HAVE to be signed by the league as opposed to the clubs, and then those players get distributed to the teams in a draft type manner with the wages being uniform.
Said players could then be available on the open market for a transparent fee at 20/21
with the developing club gaining a %.
It would require more thought for the ins and outs but such an idea should atleast be entertained to see if it could be feasible.
If we keep with the status quo it is only going to get worse.
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Topic Originator: doctordandruff
Date: Thu 25 May 10:17
The Champions League has exacerbated the gulf and it will only get worse. The stupid 4 games against each other per season destroys any hope as it`s chucking 24 points away to the Old Firm, plus Aberdeen having to visit Easter Rd, Tynecastle etc twice means the 3rd place potentials are taking a lot of points off each other. I remember that at one point, as a percentage, more tv money was going to the Old Firm that it was to Real and Barca in Spain at the time individual clubs negotiated their own deals.
I feel clubs are waking up to the fact no-one cares about Celtic or Rangers, as can be seen with record attendances this year. They just need the cajones. If only Aberdeen hadn`t jumped into bed with Celtic when Rangers went bust. Scumbags.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Fri 26 May 14:31
Well explained Oz.
It`s all about money.
The size of the USA in comparison to the number of clubs is also relevant.
30 MLB clubs across a country that is marginally over 33 times the size of the UK in terms of land area, and with a population of 330 million, give or take.
Clubs play 162 games over the season, half at home - so attendance revenue, which is significant, is for 81 matches.
Compare that to SPL with 19 home games - puts income into comparable perspective.
There is simply not enough finance in Scotland to make a draft system viable.
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Topic Originator: parathletic
Date: Fri 26 May 14:44
In the NBA this season Dallas still had a chance of making the playoffs but rested all of their best players and also threw away an 11 point lead in the last quarter of a game.They were apparently `tanking` to ensure they got a first round pick of the next draft and basically writing off this season.I wonder how that went down with their own fans.They got fined $750k.
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