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Topic Originator: Steve mcgregor
Date: Sun 10 Sep 14:11
Just read he is thinking of switching his allegiance over to Scotland. Very good player would enhance the squad. What’s folks thoughts?
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Topic Originator: dafc
Date: Sun 10 Sep 14:25
If he is eligible which it appears to be via grandparents then he has my approval. It simply increases the quality of the squad and keeps everyone on their toes. We aren’t good enough to turn players away, albeit we have a strong squad now.
Would be looking at livramento from Newcastle too albeit positions where we are strong, but can’t have enough good quality players
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Topic Originator: WarringtonPar
Date: Sun 10 Sep 14:48
I agree that he’d be a welcome addition and would undoubtedly strengthen the squad as he’s a quality player but the fact he’s indicated that he’s waiting to see if we qualify or not irks me a bit. You’re either in or you’re not.
That said the goalkeeper Gunn turned us down for 7-8 years before he was finally convinced to join up.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 10 Sep 14:52
They`re all jumping on the bandwagon now!
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Topic Originator: incognito
Date: Sun 10 Sep 15:40
All coming from minow news outlets so I am still speculative that he is even considering the swap. However I have absolutely no problem with these players waiting to see if we qualify or not.
If we qualify it could be their only chance to play at an international tournament as they aren`t good enough to play for England currently and we are clearly an more lucrative opportunity to play for and that`s fine. On the flipside they say yes now, we don`t qualify and then they can never have the opportunity to play for England in future.
People think far too strongly about football as not an occupation. Compare it to any other job and we would all do the same to perform at the highest level.
For me he doesn`t start over any of our current midfielders but he would be a great addition.
"Did you see what happened to the magic car?
It turned into a street!"
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sun 10 Sep 16:44
He hasn’t played for England so don’t see the issue in it - we need to have the strongest squad we can get and if he’s eligible and wants to play for us then take him!
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Sun 10 Sep 17:53
"He hasn’t played for England"
He actually has - one cap v Wales in a friendly.
But if Clarke thinks he`ll advance the squad, I`m all for it.
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Topic Originator: AlterPar
Date: Sun 10 Sep 20:18
Never really understood international sports. I’m far from patriotic but it just doesn’t make sense having a Scottish team full of Englishmen etc. I think the whole world is just a bit upside down to be honest!
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Topic Originator: Paralytic77
Date: Sun 10 Sep 20:20
We’re in no position to judge
McTom, Adams etc
Get him in
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Topic Originator: neilholland999
Date: Sun 10 Sep 22:53
Quote:
AlterPar, Sun 10 Sept 20:18
Never really understood international sports. I’m far from patriotic but it just doesn’t make sense having a Scottish team full of Englishmen etc. I think the whole world is just a bit upside down to be honest!
I`m Scottish, and my wife is English. Do you not think my daughter (who was born in England) deserves the right to choose which national team she plays for (hypothetically, of course)?
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Topic Originator: stevemac
Date: Mon 11 Sep 01:18
Report Abuse Reply To This Message
Re: Harvey Barnes
Topic Originator: incognito like
Date: Sun 10 Sep 15:40
All coming from minow news outlets so I am still speculative that he is even considering the swap. However I have absolutely no problem with these players waiting to see if we qualify or not.
If we qualify it could be their only chance to play at an international tournament as they aren`t good enough to play for England currently and we are clearly an more lucrative opportunity to play for and that`s fine. On the flipside they say yes now, we don`t qualify and then they can never have the opportunity to play for England in future.
People think far too strongly about football as not an occupation. Compare it to any other job and we would all do the same to perform at the highest level.
For me he doesn`t start over any of our current midfielders but he would be a great addition.
I guess you`ve got your fishing rod out on this one....so I`ll bite!
You seriously think we should be open armed to players wanting to only play in particular games/tournaments?
What about the guys grafting every game?
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Topic Originator: BA
Date: Mon 11 Sep 10:50
He’s probably just making it up to try and give Southgate an ultimatum and persuade him to give him a chance.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 11 Sep 11:18
Is Ryan Fraser still at Newcastle? He was a useful member of the Scotland squad until he fell out of favour with Eddie Howe, as he did at Bournemouth.
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Mon 11 Sep 11:29
The snobbery some folk have about who should play for Scotland is absurd, it’s like we should reject criteria that every other country can use.
France won the World Cup in 1998 and 2018 with teams full of non French born players but we would be expected to reject those same players
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Mon 11 Sep 11:31
Quote:
P, Mon 11 Sep 11:29
The snobbery some folk have about who should play for Scotland is absurd, it’s like we should reject criteria that every other country can use.
France won the World Cup in 1998 and 2018 with teams full of non French born players but we would be expected to reject those same players
Exactly, the rules are there for a reason, if the player can improve us, get them called up. Morrison was English, but was a great servant for Scotland for example
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Topic Originator: Pars Athletic
Date: Mon 11 Sep 11:34
Quote:
wee eck, Mon 11 Sep 11:18
Is Ryan Fraser still at Newcastle? He was a useful member of the Scotland squad until he fell out of favour with Eddie Howe, as he did at Bournemouth.
I`m sure he is on loan at Southampton
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Mon 11 Sep 11:44
Barnes isn’t going to get a game ahead of Grealish, Rashford or Foden
Southgate is notorious for not blooding new players
It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Mon 11 Sep 11:51
P. 2 of the France 98 squad were born outside France. 4 if you include Thuram and Karembeu who weren`t born in mainland France, but born in French dependencies who aren`t themselves FIFA members.
2 of the 2018 squad were born outside France. 3 if you include Lemar who was born in Guadalupe.
Hardly constitutes `full of` players not born in France.
In fact the other way around is more interesting..
52 players at the 2018 world cup were born in France.
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Mon 11 Sep 11:57
Quote:
Bandy, Mon 11 Sep 11:51
P. 2 of the France 98 squad were born outside France. 4 if you include Thuram and Karembeu who weren`t born in mainland France, but born in French dependencies who aren`t themselves FIFA members.
2 of the 2018 squad were born outside France. 3 if you include Lemar who was born in Guadalupe.
Hardly constitutes `full of` players not born in France.
In fact the other way around is more interesting..
52 players at the 2018 world cup were born in France.
Oh well then ‘just’ 4 or 5 World Cup winners we should say no to if in the position 🙄
Doesn’t undermine my point does it?
Post Edited (Mon 11 Sep 11:58)
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Mon 11 Sep 12:17
The point is fine - it`s just that the France squad isn`t a good example. A better example would be Algeria/Senegal etc who`ve massively improved by embracing France born players who are eligible. Indeed actively recruiting them..
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 11 Sep 12:30
Quote:
Bandy, Mon 11 Sept 11:51
P. 2 of the France 98 squad were born outside France. 4 if you include Thuram and Karembeu who weren`t born in mainland France, but born in French dependencies who aren`t themselves FIFA members.
2 of the 2018 squad were born outside France. 3 if you include Lemar who was born in Guadalupe.
Hardly constitutes `full of` players not born in France.
In fact the other way around is more interesting..
52 players at the 2018 world cup were born in France.
Ooft! That`s a belter of a post, Bandy.
I think it`s possible that P may have assumed that most of those players with a non-Caucasian skin tone were immigrants, rather than descendants of immigrants who were born in France.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Mon 11 Sep 12:35
Quote:
GG Riva, Mon 11 Sep 12:30
Quote:
Bandy, Mon 11 Sept 11:51
P. 2 of the France 98 squad were born outside France. 4 if you include Thuram and Karembeu who weren`t born in mainland France, but born in French dependencies who aren`t themselves FIFA members.
2 of the 2018 squad were born outside France. 3 if you include Lemar who was born in Guadalupe.
Hardly constitutes `full of` players not born in France.
In fact the other way around is more interesting..
52 players at the 2018 world cup were born in France.
Ooft! That`s a belter of a post, Bandy.
I think it`s possible that P may have assumed that most of those players with a non-Caucasian skin tone were immigrants, rather than descendants of immigrants who were born in France.
Well you thought completely wrongly then - it’s also a rather unpleasant insinuation you’re making. At least Bandy can engage in conversation sensibly as opposed to whatever that was meant to be.
It was well covered at the time about the positive impact immigration had had on the French national team. Maybe the numbers are relatively low but the point is sound as was acknowledged.
Post Edited (Mon 11 Sep 12:43)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 11 Sep 13:37
To answer my own question (at 11:18 above) I see Ryan Fraser is still at Newcastle but on loan at Southampton for this season.
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Topic Originator: WarringtonPar
Date: Mon 11 Sep 13:51
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Mon 11 Sep 11:44
Barnes isn’t going to get a game ahead of Grealish, Rashford or Foden
Southgate is notorious for not blooding new players
You’re right Raymie but judging by the press down here the ‘Southgate out’ bandwagon is beginning to take shape, with much criticism of his loyalty to Henderson and McGuire. Another dodgy result and the walls will start closing in. I hope Barnes sees sense and commits to Scotland soon as another striking option would be very useful.
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Topic Originator: EastEndTales
Date: Mon 11 Sep 14:04
If I`m being sceptical it`s about him furthering his own career with an already successful national team. Would he be interested if we were still dugshyte and getting pumped away to minnows?
Ep.11 of East End Tales is out now- Jack de Gier!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/13376303
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Mon 11 Sep 14:08
Probably not. But nothing breeds success like success - grabbing quality players while we can is a no brainer, even if it means some of the `stalwarts` (e.g Dykes) are used less.
There`s very little room for sentimentality in elite sport.
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Topic Originator: Swisspar
Date: Mon 11 Sep 16:56
Majority of the current English squad are Irish descent. Trippier, Maguire, Kane, just for instance.
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Topic Originator: WarringtonPar
Date: Mon 11 Sep 17:09
Quote:
Swisspar, Mon 11 Sep 16:56
Majority of the current English squad are Irish descent. Trippier, Maguire, Kane, just for instance.
Add Rice and Grealish who both represented Ireland at youth level.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Mon 11 Sep 17:43
The rules regarding nationality have always been on castors. When Italy won the World Cup in 1934 there were three Argentineans in the team and one of them- Monti- had played in the 1930 WC Final for Argentina!
In contrast the UK footballing authorities were traditionally very strict on nationality, probably to ensure that Sir Stanley Rouse could count on 4 votes at any FIFA meeting. This resulted in the nonsense of Joe Baker being deemed an Englishman due to his 6 weeks in Liverpool as an infant whilst Jimmy Wardhaugh, born in Berwick, was considered Scottish since he was born north of Shielfield Park.
Despite their goal scoring records which have stood the test of time, neither Baker nor Wardhaugh had much in the way of international careers. The same is true for the three amigos in this picture, possibly the greatest players of the 1950s, who could boast a combined total of around 1200 career goals as well as a few international jerseys.
Di Stefano (Colombia, Argentine), Kubala (Czechoslovakia, Hungary) and Puskas (Hungary) all became naturalised Spanish players but to no great effect. Spain were knocked out of the 1958 WC qualifiers by Scotland, then finished bottom of their group in Chile in 1962. Under present day rules di Stefano could have played for Eire since he had a grandmother from County Mayo.
sammer
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 11 Sep 19:03
Quote:
P, Mon 11 Sept 12:35
Quote:
GG Riva, Mon 11 Sep 12:30
Quote:
Bandy, Mon 11 Sept 11:51
P. 2 of the France 98 squad were born outside France. 4 if you include Thuram and Karembeu who weren`t born in mainland France, but born in French dependencies who aren`t themselves FIFA members.
2 of the 2018 squad were born outside France. 3 if you include Lemar who was born in Guadalupe.
Hardly constitutes `full of` players not born in France.
In fact the other way around is more interesting..
52 players at the 2018 world cup were born in France.
Ooft! That`s a belter of a post, Bandy.
I think it`s possible that P may have assumed that most of those players with a non-Caucasian skin tone were immigrants, rather than descendants of immigrants who were born in France.
Well you thought completely wrongly then - it’s also a rather unpleasant insinuation you’re making. At least Bandy can engage in conversation sensibly as opposed to whatever that was meant to be.
It was well covered at the time about the positive impact immigration had had on the French national team. Maybe the numbers are relatively low but the point is sound as was acknowledged.
My apologies for misinterpreting your post, P. It wasn`t meant to be unpleasant. It`s long been commented that the France national team was nothing to write home about until they negan to include players from minority ethnic backgrounds. It seemed to me that Bandy had given you a metaphorical clip round your ear for making an elementary error, but I was obviously mistaken as you didn`t take it that way.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Mon 11 Sep 23:31
GG,
The French teams who won the World Cups were not ‘full of non-French born players’ as P claimed, so there is nothing to interpret or misinterpret. He made a sweeping claim that Bandy, very politely, demolished and P is now seeking victimhood. P clearly assumed that black players were not native French and is now back tracking on that claim and trying to open up a racist angle which actually lies closer to his original post. Yet P claims his point still stands, against all the evidence presented. If I have done him a disservice I am sure he will respond.
The positive impact of players with roots from what were formerly French colonial countries is well known and undisputed. Marius Tresor and Tiganya were examples of this in the early 1980s long before the globalist elite sought to celebrate diversity in sport the better to impose their own economic agenda. Zidane will stand as the greatest French icon of this trend, albeit he has never been entirely comfortable with the polished narrative that is served up in western media. No one whose parents came from Algeria could ever be that naïve.
Mbappe is the latest talent to hammer this point home and is generally given a negative press in Anglophile media, the outrageous suggestion being that a man who has scored in two World Cup Finals including a hat trick has `[underachieved.` Can you imagine Geoff Hurst being subjected to that drivel? Yet the minute Mbappe, in some Brexit pipe dream, ever signs for a top EPL club he will be heralded as the greatest Frenchman of his generation and the fans might even sing that great anthem, ‘Le Marseilles.’
sammer
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Tue 12 Sep 00:06
There is nothing new under the sun. At Scotland`s last world cup appearance we had three players not born in Scotland in the squad, Matt Elliott, Neil Sullivan and Johnathan Gould. At the world cup to feature Scotland before that , Italia 90`, we had two non native Scots in the form of Richard Gough and Stuart McCall.
As for P I really don`t think he was making a statement with any racist undertone. I mean Youri Djorkaeff was born in France of Polish and Armenian parents. It`s wasn`t just non Caucasian players that he may have been thinking of. He did make a statement that wasn`t any able to withstand any factual scrutiny however. I think it`s something of a myth I have often heard repeated about the French world cup squad of 1998 and heard it once again on Talksport as recently as four hours ago. It`s something I had assumed to be true and so I thank Bandy for providing the factual evidence disproving it.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Tue 12 Sep 07:59
Did the successful Eire team not pioneer the use of players from outwith the Emerald Isle in their 90`s and 94 World Cup squads?
In fact if you had drunk a pint of Guinness you were in and thus encouraged boys like Mcgeady and Macarthy to declare themselves Irish, following in the steps of Ray Houghton.
Mind you if you have any Irish relatives in your timeline you can get a European passport these days and freedom of movement!
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Wed 13 Sep 07:26
Quote:
sammer, Mon 11 Sep 23:31
GG,
The French teams who won the World Cups were not ‘full of non-French born players’ as P claimed, so there is nothing to interpret or misinterpret. He made a sweeping claim that Bandy, very politely, demolished and P is now seeking victimhood. P clearly assumed that black players were not native French and is now back tracking on that claim and trying to open up a racist angle which actually lies closer to his original post. Yet P claims his point still stands, against all the evidence presented. If I have done him a disservice I am sure he will respond.
The positive impact of players with roots from what were formerly French colonial countries is well known and undisputed.
.’
Hold the front page - Sammer in slavering nonsense shock
I ‘clearly assumed’ nothing of the sort, there are scores and scores of articles on the impact of immigration on the French national team, I was at the 1998 World Cup and remember it well. It was well covered at the time as a talking point and whether it was 2 or full of there were non French born players available to the French team.
You somehow then say my point doesn’t stand - you seem to be struggling with the fact that my point was that non French born players were a benefit to World Cup winning teams and there is no sense in Scotland rejecting players when teams at the pinnacle of the game do not. This remains my point and that we in Scotland shouldn’t limit our own options - explain where it is incorrect?
Seriously why on earth would you leap to the belief that anyone would think if someone is black they couldn’t be French born? Immigration in France has been significant from waaaayyyy before I was born and having first travelled in France in the 1980’s and seeing that diversity first hand it’s not something that would or could even remotely cross my mind. It says more about your thought processes on race in France than anything else. English born black players have played for England my entire life so an assumption that not being white means you’re not Western European has never even been a thing
Ok so on point and since you have stated it is wrong - a ‘couple’ of players in each of the French World Cup winning teams were not born in France, tell me why should Scotland not utilise the same rules and why would we reject players not born in Scotland when other nations do not?
Post Edited (Wed 13 Sep 07:42)
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 13 Sep 11:22
It was nonsense to claim that 2 players meant the French squad was `full of` players born outwith France, and P must have had a reason for mistakenly believing this. I could well understand if he assumed that several of the black players were born in former French colonies but since he says this was not the case then there must have been some other reason.
Scotland is in no position to turn away any players eligible to play for the country and if the players are willing to commit themselves to Scotland then they should be considered for selection. But there is no guarantee that scooping up a few decent players will improve the team, as I pointed out earlier with the example of Spain in the 1950s.
sammer
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Topic Originator: fcda
Date: Wed 13 Sep 13:09
I remember a newspaper article at the time, showing all the French players in turn and insinuating that a high number weren`t "really" French.
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Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Thu 14 Sep 22:45
‘At the world cup to feature Scotland before that , Italia 90`, we had two non native Scots in the form of Richard Gough and Stuart McCall.’
Plus the late Andy Goram, though he never got a game as we persisted with an out of form Jim Leighton.
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Topic Originator: kozmanout
Date: Fri 15 Sep 06:17
Now the boy from Newcastle Elliot Anderson has got cold feet and doesn`t fancy playing for Scotland anymore and fancies a crack at getting into the England team. He looks a decent player but as we seen on Tuesday that is one hell of a squad to break into.
Post Edited (Fri 15 Sep 06:18)
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 15 Sep 08:08
Supposedly didn`t enjoy being in the camp. Fair enough, it`s his decision to make, but he shouldn`t be asked again.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Fri 15 Sep 10:46
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Fri 15 Sep 08:08
Supposedly didn`t enjoy being in the camp. Fair enough, it`s his decision to make, but he shouldn`t be asked again.
Is there actually any direct quotes from him stating that he didnt enjoy it and doesnt want to be called up to the next one?
Not seen a single thing where he has commented on pulling out of the squad himself…..
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 15 Sep 12:42
No direct quotes. Will find out soon enough if he`s called up again in three weeks.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Jeffery
Date: Fri 15 Sep 21:00
Quote:
Dave_1885, Fri 15 Sep 10:46
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Fri 15 Sep 08:08
Supposedly didn`t enjoy being in the camp. Fair enough, it`s his decision to make, but he shouldn`t be asked again.
Is there actually any direct quotes from him stating that he didnt enjoy it and doesnt want to be called up to the next one?
Not seen a single thing where he has commented on pulling out of the squad himself…..
I wondered the same. It looks like the Scottish Daily Express printed the story but gave no source, multiple other outlets then printed the same quoting the Express.
Could be true but let`s see.
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