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Topic Originator: jwd1103
Date: Wed 15 May 20:23
Yes in it`s current implementation. It was supposed to be for clear & obvious errors. If it takes more that 30 secs max to make a decision then it should be the on field decision that "wins". Taking more than 30 seconds surely means it is not a clear & obvious error. Also the hand ball lottery rule needs to be addressed. It varies from minute to minute, not just game to game. A complete shambles aided & abetted by VAR
Sucking the joy out of football
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Topic Originator: Paralex
Date: Thu 16 May 00:47
I reckon the hand ball situation will never be satisfactorily resolved and is too much open to corruption. A quick decision is OK but not if it is on the whim of one man, a referee who with the best will in the world could be easily swayed by a baying home crowd. I would give more than half a minute, at least one minute.
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Topic Originator: DNCH
Date: Thu 16 May 05:26
I don`t think VAR is that bad. It`s clearly had teething issues and the scrutiny its under will force those to be corrected but some of the decisions have so much on the line. If we get rid of it we go back to just hounding referees instead. It`s too easy a complaint to make. Let`s just improve it.
Imagine we had VAR in the 2004 Cup Final when Balde clearly handled the ball?
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Thu 16 May 07:55
They have tried to engineer it in a way when the ref is still in charge.
In my opinion, VAR should ref the game. They have more tools than the ref.
All contentious throw ins, corners etc VAR could give an absolute decision quickly
The ref then relays that decision to the crowd.
This half baked idea is always set up to still be controversial
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Thu 16 May 08:25
In its current form I’d bin it
If we’re going to continue with it, then I’d focus on couple of decisions and change the rules and use to make it instant
For example, the players all wear those sportsbra gps things - we could use that technology to know exactly where players are, not their left big toe but their torso - and where they are in relation to all other players - that’s instant and empirical data
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Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Thu 16 May 09:05
revert to using when "clear and obvious". If something takes 10 replays in slow motion from multiple angles on a subjective decision it is not clear and obvious.
if ref goes to monitor he gets to see it once in real time if he would change mind. none of this freeze frame at point of contact that makes it look 10times worse than it is.
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Thu 16 May 09:09
They should scrap the monitors,
The var ref should be able to say send number 7 off dangerous play and that`s it.
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Topic Originator: Alter Ego
Date: Thu 16 May 09:17
Scrap VAR altogether and get back to the game that it was. VAR just slows everything down and even with all this software they still get it wrong so whats the point? I would like to hear what the referees have to say on this?
Mon the Pars!
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 16 May 09:18
Is it only in Scotland and England that VAR causes so many issues? Does it work to everyone`s satisfaction in other Leagues?
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Thu 16 May 09:50
VAR technology is brilliant, it’s just a shame it’s wasted by incompetent decision making.
The Gordon penalty incident last night a clear example.
It would be good if they can get it for offsides in the way it works for the ball over the line, the decision is instant, imagine that is tricky to do though and it’s always bugged my at being flagged for offside by a toenail.
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Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Thu 16 May 09:56
"I would like to hear what the referees have to say on this?"
95% of the issue is players/fans/pundits not knowing the laws of the game. Alan Shearer on MOTD telling the world "that for me isnt a foul" maybe not for you Alan but IFAB laws of the game says it is
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Topic Originator: 1985Par
Date: Thu 16 May 10:38
"95% of the issue is players/fans/pundits not knowing the laws of the game. Alan Shearer on MOTD telling the world "that for me isnt a foul" maybe not for you Alan but IFAB laws of the game says it is"
But the laws of the game are black and white and the game of football isn`t. And, try as the rule makers might to rid the game of any sort of nuance or interpretation, often it requires just that. Penalties for innocuous, unavoidable and completely accidental handball being just one example.
And for offsides - scrap the lines. Show an official a still picture. If he can`t decide within 5 seconds if a player is on or off then , for all intents and purposes, he is level and give the benefit of any doubt to the attacker.
Post Edited (Thu 16 May 10:44)
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Thu 16 May 10:52
The rules of the game are NOT black and white. There`s a huge degree of subjectivity.
Black and White would be `if the ball strikes the ball on the hand a direct freekick is awarded`.
That`s not how the rule is written - it introduces all kinds of consideration points which are subjective `natural position`, `distance ball has travelled` etc etc.
My view is that VAR should have a much wider remit and be used much more like Rugby.
- VAR could and should intervene where necessary - not just in the 4 areas it`s currently used. And VAR should be allowed recommend yellow cards are issued.
- `Clear and Obvious` needs to go. It adds additional subjectivity - not only does VAR need to determine whether an error has been made, which is tough they also need to determine whether it was `clear and obvious`.
- There should be room for VAR to intervene where the referee just hasn`t seen things. A good example being the Bruno Guimaraes elbow on Jorginho at St James` earlier this season. The ref didn`t decide that wasn`t a foul - he just didn`t see it. In that case VAR should be able to say `There is foul play you haven`t seen, recommend a review at next stoppage` - and then the ref can view the incident and determine the appropriate action, including awarding a yellow if necessary.
- As in Rugby - the referee should be able to ask different questions; saying `I think I saw this, can you confirm that`s accurate` vs `I haven`t seen closely enough to make a decision - please help me decide`.
I`ll all for VAR, but the Premier League implementation is dire.
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Topic Originator: 1985Par
Date: Thu 16 May 11:18
Bandy - indeed the rules aren`t black and white but, in my opinion, the authorities are trying to do all they can to remove any form of subjectivity. You hear managers moaning every week about "consistency". Well as long as humans are officiating they aren`t going to get it. My feelings are often that the ref has his hands tied and isn`t allowed to apply any common sense, interpretation or subjectivity even if he wanted to. The rules are the rules and he`ll be downgraded to the junior ranks if he doesn`t apply them to the letter. This is the point i was trying to make.
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Topic Originator: ParfectXI
Date: Thu 16 May 12:45
VAR is an excellent piece of kit, however, it’s woolly rules on usage etc needs to change!
There are still mistakes with VAR but far less than previous, let’s not forget it’s still relatively new and things will get faster the more the issues get ironed out.
Just think of it this way - in hypotheses next season would you be happier if come the end of the season we are going for promotion a killer slightly dubious goal is scored against us that would keep us down and the VAR takes 2-3 minutes to check everything (which might rule the goal out) OR there’s no VAR and the referee deemed it a goal straight away?
Personally I’d rather have the check
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Thu 16 May 18:11
Just scrap it. It`s rubbish, it takes all the fun out of the game. Just let the ref make the decisions on the pitch. Players scoring goals, then a kind of half celebration, is it gonna be chalked off for a minor infringment or not, and the big delay while they check, followed by a half hearted eventual celebration. It`s kack. While they are at it, go back to 3 subs, too many now.
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Topic Originator: thebear
Date: Thu 16 May 23:27
Bin it or have it only cover ball over line issues which are black and white !!!
Offside should be based on the front most part in contact with ground, not who has longest nose or pinochio would always be offside
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Fri 17 May 09:43
Quote:
red-star-par, Thu 16 May 18:11
Just scrap it. It`s rubbish, it takes all the fun out of the game. Just let the ref make the decisions on the pitch. Players scoring goals, then a kind of half celebration, is it gonna be chalked off for a minor infringment or not, and the big delay while they check, followed by a half hearted eventual celebration. It`s kack. While they are at it, go back to 3 subs, too many now.
The more subs is to do with player fatigue and burnout, 3 subs is dated
COYP
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Fri 17 May 11:06
Quote:
EastEndTales, Fri 17 May 09:55
Nah, it just favours bigger clubs that can stockpile more players for their bench, diluting the quality trickling down.
Sorry but i disagree with you wholeheartedly
COYP
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Fri 17 May 13:53
Three subs was in place relatively briefly anyway.
The classic setup was only two on the bench. I think it was only one initially? That was fortunately before my time!
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Sat 18 May 10:18
VAR works for every other sport. I don`t think VAR is the problem. The rules needed tweaking to suit the new technology. We all heard the clear and obvious error but that was scrapped when they started looking at shoelaces etc etc.
I find it astonishing that the so called best league in the world definitely the richest still can`t implement a system which other leagues with drastically lower finances can.
Take rugby as an example if there is a potential miss by the match officials the VAR shows the match official the incident and let`s them make the decision. Willie collum doesn`t change his decision in the old firm game but usually the referee changes his mind when he goes to the monitor.
I like VAR not as it is at the moment though but I can see the potential in it. Let`s go back to the clear and obvious and let the referee see things in real time instead of showing stills first which pushes a narrative to what the decision might be.
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Sat 18 May 10:31
Quote:
cammypar 1995, Sat 18 May 10:18
VAR works for every other sport. I don`t think VAR is the problem. The rules needed tweaking to suit the new technology. We all heard the clear and obvious error but that was scrapped when they started looking at shoelaces etc etc.
I find it astonishing that the so called best league in the world definitely the richest still can`t implement a system which other leagues with drastically lower finances can.
Take rugby as an example if there is a potential miss by the match officials the VAR shows the match official the incident and let`s them make the decision. Willie collum doesn`t change his decision in the old firm game but usually the referee changes his mind when he goes to the monitor.
I like VAR not as it is at the moment though but I can see the potential in it. Let`s go back to the clear and obvious and let the referee see things in real time instead of showing stills first which pushes a narrative to what the decision might be.
We should get the rugby refs to learn footy rules and hire them for var etc, would probably be worthwhile
COYP
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Sat 18 May 10:43
Can`t do much worse than the ones we have now. It`s not surprising we hardly get any of our officials doing games out with Scotland.
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Sat 18 May 16:52
Will be very hard to get rid of it as people`s jobs and investment are now dependent on it, not to mention the people who introduced it are still in a job.
It`s a dreadful system and should never been introduced.
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Topic Originator: Steviethepar2
Date: Sat 18 May 17:09
Bin it not been needed last 100 years
personally only thing annoys me in Scotland is not having goal line tech and communications / secrecy of refs
One of issues with VAR is the be all and end all of video refs looking to stop something to forensic detail
should be a rule on time - 30 secs if u don’t see by then then it isn’t a clear and obvious error - not even American footy goes that far
It is also shambolic to zoom in to micro detail to see if a ball skimmed a player finger nail for a handball or offside - rules of offside changed years ago to level is on in favour of the attacker - VAR offside should be a clear like half a body same as linesman would decide on
Ps we are in the championship and despite what we think not that many wrong decisions are made and they even themselves up move the season
And just to round my rant on VAR off
Despite what u may think of corrupt Sepp Blatter he said this in 2012 below —-yes 2012….
"In my opinion and as long as I`m involved with the destiny of FIFA, I will make sure no technological help will be introduced in refereeing because we must rely on human beings," said Blatter. "Technological items would destroy an essential element in this game - the emotion. If part of our game becomes scientific, it will take away that emotion."
Blatter accepted that the quality of referees will have to be improved, saying: "What we shall do is to make sure refereeing will always be improved by courses providing technical and practical instruction. Those who are refereeing and running the line have to know and feel football.
"But when we made experiments to put in place electronic devices to change the decision of referees, they were very destructive. I do not believe football would digest such a change."
Post Edited (Sat 18 May 17:26)
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Topic Originator: Steviethepar2
Date: Sat 18 May 17:16
Quote:
shellypar, Sat 18 May 10:31
Quote:
cammypar 1995, Sat 18 May 10:18
VAR works for every other sport. I don`t think VAR is the problem. The rules needed tweaking to suit the new technology. We all heard the clear and obvious error but that was scrapped when they started looking at shoelaces etc etc.
I find it astonishing that the so called best league in the world definitely the richest still can`t implement a system which other leagues with drastically lower finances can.
Take rugby as an example if there is a potential miss by the match officials the VAR shows the match official the incident and let`s them make the decision. Willie collum doesn`t change his decision in the old firm game but usually the referee changes his mind when he goes to the monitor.
I like VAR not as it is at the moment though but I can see the potential in it. Let`s go back to the clear and obvious and let the referee see things in real time instead of showing stills first which pushes a narrative to what the decision might be.
We should get the rugby refs to learn footy rules and hire them for var etc, would probably be worthwhile
I’ve been to many rugby games one of big differences are the comm s to the crowd and the clear decision making
Even then last couple year they learned as well with the bunker review for a red card reducing the time taking for decisions
Another big aspect in international rugby football can’t replicate is the refs - on the field in charge and assistants / video are all top level refs and will be in charge in the middle themselves so there is a big level of trust and learning with younger refs between them which I hear in broadcast comms
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Tue 21 May 05:41
Quote:
Steviethepar2, Sat 18 May 17:09
Bin it not been needed last 100 years
personally only thing annoys me in Scotland is not having goal line tech and communications / secrecy of refs
One of issues with VAR is the be all and end all of video refs looking to stop something to forensic detail
should be a rule on time - 30 secs if u don’t see by then then it isn’t a clear and obvious error - not even American footy goes that far
It is also shambolic to zoom in to micro detail to see if a ball skimmed a player finger nail for a handball or offside - rules of offside changed years ago to level is on in favour of the attacker - VAR offside should be a clear like half a body same as linesman would decide on
Ps we are in the championship and despite what we think not that many wrong decisions are made and they even themselvmove the season
And just to round my rant on VAR off
Despite what u may think of corrupt Sepp Blatter he said this in 2012 below —-yes 2012….
"In my opinion and as long as I`m involved with the destiny of FIFA, I will make sure no technological help will be introduced in refereeing because we must rely on human beings," said Blatter. "Technological items would destroy an essential element in this game - the emotion. If part of our game becomes scientific, it will take away that emotion."
Blatter accepted that the quality of referees will have to be improved, saying: "What we shall do is to make sure refereeing will always be improved by courses providing technical and practical instruction. Those who are refereeing and running the line have to know and feel football.
"But when we made experiments to put in place electronic devices to change the decision of referees, they were very destructive. I do not believe football would digest such a change."
I agree with some but not all of that 😂 if you have to draw more than 1 line for offside then give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker - you shouldn’t need to minimise it that much.
Your point on Championship refs not getting much wrong though, is a load of tosh 😂 in near enough every game there is at least 1 glaringly obvious error just feet from an officials position. The reason VAR doesnt work is the incompetence of the refs, not the tech.
Post Edited (Tue 21 May 05:44)
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Tue 21 May 11:25
Must say that the refs have been dire in the Championship this season!
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