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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Wed 2 Dec 15:45

I see that this thread is still being viewed several months after it was started. As we come nearer to Christmas maybe that is a time when people have at least a passing thought for God and eternity.Maybe some of us have that deep hunger to know God and have that close loving relationship with Him. I read, some years ago the Memoirs of Robert Murray McCheyne, a minister of St. Peter`s church Dundee who had such a close and intimate relationship with God and died at the age of 29. I then stood at his grave which is at the front of the church and said to myself "that man is not dead, he was powerfully alive in the Spirit of God during his life and he is more alive now than he ever was". In the late 60`s the Moody Blues sang a very moving song which included the line " I need a miracle in my life". Maybe that`s how some of us feel now. Well because of Christmas (and Easter) we can have that miracle in our lives. Reaching out to God is an acknowledgement of our weakness but in doing so God fills us with His strength so that we have grace and goodness to give to others. One man I knew in my workplace many years ago, who had come through a serious operation, boasted that he had got through it without asking for God`s help while another man in the office asked for God`s help every day of his life. My youthful perception was that one was like a withered plant, dry and lifeless while the other was like a fountain of life radiating with joy and bringing hope to many. The latter was my boss and many years later he told me that that he had been diagnosed with a brain tumour. He said with a smile on his face "Paralex I`m going to the glory". He did go to the glory and as I watched his coffin being lowered into the grave I thanked God for his life and for the powerful influence for good he had been on my young life.




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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Thu 3 Dec 20:40

Quote:

Paralex, Wed 2 Dec 15:45

I see that this thread is still being viewed several months after it was started. As we come nearer to Christmas maybe that is a time when people have at least a passing thought for God and eternity.Maybe some of us have that deep hunger to know God and have that close loving relationship with Him.


If he makes up my wages to 100% if I get furloughed again then I'm in.
Surely the "creator" can do that for me... Or does he not sign the cheques? 🤔

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Thu 3 Dec 20:55

Yas, loved this thread, glad it’s been reincarnated...
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 3 Dec 21:19

Quote:

Berry, Thu 3 Dec 20:55

Yas, loved this thread, glad it’s been reincarnated...


You mean resurrected ya numpty!

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 3 Dec 22:39

Well widtink He has given the scientists the skill to provide a vaccine so hopefully you won`t have to be furloughed again. I doubt if our Great Creator can be held to ransom but when we are willing to trust everything to Him it`s amazing what He can do. Of course I don`t subscribe to the Prosperity Gospel (give your life to Jesus and your bank balance will expand). Becoming a Christian is more in line with the comment of CT Studd who said, "if Jesus Christ be God and died for me, no sacrifice is too great for me to make for Him". Or Jim Elliot who said, " he is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose".

I was going into the Norrie one Saturday a few years ago and one of the stewards asked me to show him the contents of my backpack. I took out a pair of gloves a paper to read at half time, a fold up umbrella and my wee Bible. I said and this is my Bible if you don`t have one be prepared to sell your house if that`s what it takes to get one. I`m not sure he grasped the urgency of the situation. The next home game I did the same and the steward who was of African descent, probably from Nigeria, his eyes lit up and he said " the Word of God" with obvious pleasure. Well if any of you have a Bible read Isaiah chapter 9 and then Isaiah 53. Both chapters speaking about Jesus. A modern hymn by Stuart Townend has the words, "he took the blame, bore the cost, I stand forgiven at the cross". There`s no better feeling than knowing that our slate is wiped clean and we are forgiven by God and that the Mighty God our creator is happy with our lives.

Trust Him with your life Widtink and many things will fall into place. You will never regret it.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Thu 3 Dec 22:43

Quote:

Paralex, Thu 3 Dec 22:39

Well widtink He has given the scientists the skill to provide a vaccine so hopefully you won`t have to be furloughed again. I doubt if our Great Creator can be held to ransom but when we are willing to trust everything to Him it`s amazing what He can do. Of course I don`t subscribe to the Prosperity Gospel (give your life to Jesus and your bank balance will expand). Becoming a Christian is more in line with the comment of CT Studd who said, "if Jesus Christ be God and died for me, no sacrifice is too great for me to make for Him". Or Jim Elliot who said, " he is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose".

I was going into the Norrie one Saturday a few years ago and one of the stewards asked me to show him the contents of my backpack. I took out a pair of gloves a paper to read at half time, a fold up umbrella and my wee Bible. I said and this is my Bible if you don`t have one be prepared to sell your house if that`s what it takes to get one. I`m not sure he grasped the urgency of the situation. The next home game I did the same and the steward who was of African descent, probably from Nigeria, his eyes lit up and he said " the Word of God" with obvious pleasure. Well if any of you have a Bible read Isaiah chapter 9 and then Isaiah 53. Both chapters speaking about Jesus. A modern hymn by Stuart Townend has the words, "he took the blame, bore the cost, I stand forgiven at the cross". There`s no better feeling than knowing that our slate is wiped clean and we are forgiven by God and that the Mighty God our creator is happy with our lives.

Trust Him with your life Widtink and many things will fall into place. You will never regret it.


Surely he also created the virus?
Or at least knew it was going to happen with him being all powerful.
And yet did nothing to stop it.
Make you wonder if perhaps he's not real.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Thu 3 Dec 22:58

Oh it's far to late for me to turn to religion.
Never really seen any point to it.
But each to their own.
The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother’s keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.
Yes I know its not from the bible... But I've always liked that version 🤣

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 3 Dec 23:13

God didn`t create the virus sadindiefreak. He created a perfect world. All the ills of humankind are the results of human rebellion against God inspired by the spirit of evil who will be dealt with at the end of time. When Jesus died on the cross he provided a way of escape for us to free us from the power of sin and Satan but by and large the world is still under his influence. The enemy of God still operates in the world but as the Bible says, his time is limited until all of God`s people are gathered in. We have a stark choice. Go with God or cast your lot in with Satan.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 3 Dec 23:20

The last thing you should do widtink is turn to religion. Religion is something we do. It has a dead sound like some kind of ritual. Religion is dead. Turn to God, your Maker, your Creator. Discover the very reason that you have a life, to know Him to love Him, to belong to Him. Paul says "you He made alive when you were dead in your trespasses and sins". Dont choose religion whatever you do, choose spiritual life over spiritual death and begin to live life for real.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Thu 3 Dec 23:22

I'm with Satan.... He listens to metal 🤘

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Fri 4 Dec 00:04

Well (all joking aside) that is an option that is open to us widtink because God gives us free will to choose between good and evil and that answers sadindiefreak`s objection to God that there is evil in the world in the form of the virus. It`s there because we have chosen it. "Men loved darkness rather than light". And we pay the price for that by having to put up with plagues and viruses. It seems that we choose to live in a way that does harm to ourselves and the environment and then go bleating to God that life isn`t just as comfortable as we would like it to be.



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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Fri 4 Dec 05:08

Your God isn’t very nice! He requires worship but doesn’t intervene!

I have 3 kids, so pretty much the opposite I get no praise and have to intervene!

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Fri 4 Dec 10:38

For the Christian worshipping God is not a requirement but a great delight. He sets our hearts on fire as we praise Him. One of the main things Christians are missing just now is meeting together to sing praise to God.He does intervene in human life but maybe not always in the way we would want Him to and there are no doubt good reasons for that. Christmas tells us that God intervened in human life by coming to live among us in the form of His son Jesus. Life is not always easy for any of us and sometimes it is grim but God promises to help us through it if we trust Him. "Cast your burdens on God, He will sustain you".

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sat 5 Dec 03:36

Which God are you talking about here?
Zeus?
Baal?
Brahma?
Odin?
Yahweh?
Krishna?
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sat 5 Dec 09:21

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sat 5 Dec 11:29

We`re talking about the God who broke into human life by becoming a man and living among people. The God who for our sake became poor. The God who came to His own people and who was despised and rejected. He was a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. He was tempted in every respect like we are and yet without sin. He was the God who was whipped, cursed and spat upon and before His accusers remained silent. He was the God who was wounded for our transgressions and who bore our sin. He was the God of whom it was said He helped others but couldn`t save Himself. He is the God who said I am the resurrection and the life , whoever believes in me will never die. He is the God who says "I stand at the door of your heart and knock, whoever hears my voice and opens the door I will come in". Jesus!! Immanuel!!! God with us.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sat 5 Dec 12:29

Quote:

Paralex, Sat 5 Dec 11:29

We`re talking about the God who broke into human life by becoming a man and living among people. The God who for our sake became poor. The God who came to His own people and who was despised and rejected. He was a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. He was tempted in every respect like we are and yet without sin. He was the God who was whipped, cursed and spat upon and before His accusers remained silent. He was the God who was wounded for our transgressions and who bore our sin. He was the God of whom it was said He helped others but couldn`t save Himself. He is the God who said I am the resurrection and the life , whoever believes in me will never die. He is the God who says "I stand at the door of your heart and knock, whoever hears my voice and opens the door I will come in". Jesus!! Immanuel!!! God with us.


So you admit more than one god exists then?
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Stoo  
Date:   Sat 5 Dec 18:09

This thread is nuts.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sat 5 Dec 20:06

Don`t know how you come to that conclusion sadindiefreak. I think I have given a fairly accurate description of the God of the Bible (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) and particularly of God the Son, Jesus who was born of the virgin Mary, who was crucified, dead and buried, who descended into hell and on the third day rose from the dead. Who appeared to many people after His resurrection. He then ascended into Heaven and when this tired old world is wrapped up will return to this world and every person will see him

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sat 5 Dec 20:13

Quote:

Paralex, Sat 5 Dec 20:06

Don`t know how you come to that conclusion sadindiefreak. I think I have given a fairly accurate description of the God of the Bible (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) and particularly of God the Son, Jesus who was born of the virgin Mary, who was crucified, dead and buried, who descended into hell and on the third day rose from the dead. Who appeared to many people after His resurrection. He then ascended into Heaven and when this tired old world is wrapped up will return to this world and every person will see him


So you are saying there is only one God?

A yes or no answer will suffice.

Post Edited (Sat 05 Dec 20:14)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sat 5 Dec 20:46

Yes there is only one true God. He is the God who is responsible for the creation of the cosmos and all life within it. He is the Triune God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Of course there are other gods which are inventions of people. In the Bible there was Baal and Dagon and several others made out of wood or stone, there was Artemis of the Ephesians but over the generations they have fallen by the wayside.



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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sat 5 Dec 21:22

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sat 5 Dec 21:40

Many quite normal human beings have had their lives completely transformed in the most wonderful way EEP by a personal meeting with Jesus. What are other people`s answers to the meaning of life. Do we just live and die and that`s the end of it? No meaning, no purpose just eternal oblivion? Jesus said I have come that you may have LIFE. I was first taught that by a Sunday School teacher who wore his Pars scarf to church, at Cairns Parish Church Cowdenbeath, that seems quite normal to me. He obviously believed it and 10 years later I found out it was true for me. I`m so grateful for those who took the time and effort to tell me so I`m making a point of passing it on to others and very grateful to sadindiefreak for giving me that opportunity.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sun 6 Dec 00:08

Quote:

Paralex, Sat 5 Dec 21:40

Many quite normal human beings have had their lives completely transformed in the most wonderful way EEP by a personal meeting with Jesus. What are other people`s answers to the meaning of life. Do we just live and die and that`s the end of it? No meaning, no purpose just eternal oblivion? Jesus said I have come that you may have LIFE. I was first taught that by a Sunday School teacher who wore his Pars scarf to church, at Cairns Parish Church Cowdenbeath, that seems quite normal to me. He obviously believed it and 10 years later I found out it was true for me. I`m so grateful for those who took the time and effort to tell me so I`m making a point of passing it on to others and very grateful to sadindiefreak for giving me that opportunity.


Exodus 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.

Firstly what a loving God you have killing all these innocent children and animals.
Secondly, who are these "gods of Egypt" that he is going the "execute judgment" on if according to you he is the only God?
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sun 6 Dec 00:52

God has given life to all creatures sadindiefreak including you and me and He will take our lives away at the time when it suits Him. It`s sad that sometimes the gross wickedness of people has brought our Creator God to the point of regretting that He has created us. That seems to have been the case with the Egyptians of that time. God gives us all many chances to get our lives right with Him but if we keep hardening our hearts against Him there comes a time when the way back becomes so difficult that we can`t find it in our hearts to accept the salvation that He offers.

You have answered the second point yourself sadindiefreak. There were other gods with a small g but these were created by human imagination, not pre existent superbeings. Egyptians of that time may also have been able to do magical tricks through invoking the name of these gods because evil spirits have power to perform supernatural signs too.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sun 6 Dec 01:22

Why does he have to judge other gods if they don't exist. That makes zero sense.
And to be OK with the massacre of every first born child in Egypt is abhorrent.
They were not "wicked" this was about trying to force Pharaoh to release the Jews.

Infact Pharaoh wanted to release them but your loving God thought otherwise, so took away his "free will"
Exodus 10:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:

This story is utterly vile in that God know Pharaoh wanted to give up but God intervened to stop him knowing he would massacre tens of thousands of innocent children.

Thankfully it's all just a fairy tale but the fact you believe it and justify the genocide of children shows you to be one sick individual.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sun 6 Dec 01:56

As I said the gods of Egypt did exist in the minds of the people and evil powers exercised through them. I would surmise that this is what God would be judging.

As I also said all of us owe our lives to God. He gave lives to the children and perhaps it could be seen as a mercy if He took them into His own presence rather than have them grow up in a wicked atmosphere.

Maybe Pharaoh hardened his heart so many times against God that God did not allow him to repent. It is a warning not to trifle with God.

Your final point is vicious and inappropriate. To accuse me of having a vile attitude towards the death of children when we live in a generation that murders hundreds of thousands of children every day by means of abortion is beneath contempt. I have a grandson whom I love with all my heart who has down syndrome. My son and his wife who are also Christian`s refused to have a test that would have identified the abnormality in order to offer abortion. Abortions are being offered in Scotland daily to couples who are expecting children with such abnormalities. I wonder what position you may take in such a situation?

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sun 6 Dec 03:20

No children are murdered through abortion at that point it is a blob of cells and not a human life.
I am pro choice and would not for example force a girl who had been raped by her father to give birth.
I'm sure you would be all too happy to remove the rights of women because of your beliefs.

Your attitude to the genocide of children and to womens reproductive rights is vile.
Previously on this thread you showed little compassion to kids who had been raped by clergy.
That coupled with your willingness to accept genocide in the name of your God makes you pretty deplorable in my opinion.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sun 6 Dec 09:40

With the risk of descending to a level that you seem happy to adopt and I want to avoid it may now be my turn to say your attitude is vile. "A blob of cells"? Seems that you only play the human sympathy card when it suits you. I`m talking about abortion on demand, for personal convenience not the extreme cases that you seem very eager to latch on to.

I rest my case.




Post Edited (Sun 06 Dec 11:38)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sun 6 Dec 12:04

I certainly don't agree with "abortion on demand" as you put it.

The fact is that women don't use abortion for convenience they use contraception. Something else religious zealots like you are so keen to deny them access to.

With roughly a quarter of all pregnancy ending in miscarriage I would suggest that if your sky fairy were actually real they are the biggest abortionist there is.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sun 6 Dec 18:39

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sun 6 Dec 19:10

Very solidly presbyterian Church of Scotland EEP nothing else and everything I have written is orthodox Christian faith and all officially held by the Church of Scotland. The sad thing is that these issues have become like a foreign language to the people of Scotland when we used to be know as people of the Word.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sun 6 Dec 20:41

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sun 6 Dec 21:26

I`m not too surprised by what you say EEP because as 1 Corinthians chapter 1 from verse 20 says " has God not made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe....... For the foolishness of God is wiser than men and the weakness of God is stronger than men."

I`m not surprised that the things of the Spirit seem like nonsense to you because according to the above verses from the Bible that is the natural reaction. We need God to open our eyes.

Amen and goodnight to all.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 6 Dec 21:28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzlc-KsIUIU


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sun 6 Dec 21:41

Quote:

Paralex, Sun 6 Dec 21:26

I`m not too surprised by what you say EEP because as 1 Corinthians chapter 1 from verse 20 says " has God not made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe....... For the foolishness of God is wiser than men and the weakness of God is stronger than men."

I`m not surprised that the things of the Spirit seem like nonsense to you because according to the above verses from the Bible that is the natural reaction. We need God to open our eyes.

Amen and goodnight to all.


So God wants us to be foolish and we need him to open our eyes.
What chance does anyone have if God decides not to open their eyes.
I'm condemned to eternal torture through no fault of my own.

In the verse before yours starts
1 Corinthians 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

God actually actively stops people from having wisdom and understanding.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sun 6 Dec 21:45

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: NikNakPar  
Date:   Sun 6 Dec 23:01

Wow.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Mon 7 Dec 00:09

Oh I see the wolves are circling. Please make sure your Christmas is not an Xmas. And a happy New Year to all our readers.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Mon 7 Dec 01:32

Quote:

Paralex, Mon 7 Dec 00:09

Oh I see the wolves are circling. Please make sure your Christmas is not an Xmas. And a happy New Year to all our readers.


Are you having a go at the use of the term Xmas now?
If so I suggest you educate yourself to the origins of Xmas.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 7 Dec 18:06

Quote SIF :-

No children are murdered through abortion at that point it is a blob of cells and not a human life.


I think sadly it is a human life many times SIF :(

By the time you`re 24 weeks pregnant, the baby has a chance of survival if they are born.

An abortion may be performed up to the time when the foetus is viable outside the mother’s body. Under the Criminal Code, this is 24 weeks. In practice, doctors apply a two-week margin of error, and stick to a time limit of 22 weeks.

A 1 pound, 1 ounce infant born 18 weeks prematurely has survived for almost two months in San Diego.

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Mon 7 Dec 18:43

Quote:

Buspasspar, Mon 7 Dec 18:06

Quote SIF :-

No children are murdered through abortion at that point it is a blob of cells and not a human life.


I think sadly it is a human life many times SIF :(

By the time you`re 24 weeks pregnant, the baby has a chance of survival if they are born.

An abortion may be performed up to the time when the foetus is viable outside the mother’s body. Under the Criminal Code, this is 24 weeks. In practice, doctors apply a two-week margin of error, and stick to a time limit of 22 weeks.

A 1 pound, 1 ounce infant born 18 weeks prematurely has survived for almost two months in San Diego.


Thats why I'm not entirely comfortable with abortion at this stage.
I would like to see to time reduced to perhaps around 14-16 weeks.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Mon 7 Dec 20:05

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Wed 9 Dec 15:11

Have to admit, I'd be along the same lines as saying about 16 weeks for the abortion limit. As men though I don't think we have a right to control what women do with their bodies.

As we've seen again though, the Christians are every bit as bad as fundamental as those other Abrahamic religions they claim superiority over.

All of these man-made mythological ideologies are just laughable. If nobody had heard of it and it suddenly appeared today then people would mock it in the same way as they do scientology.

If you study even a little Astrophysics, you soon see the insane scale of the universe (and its only the visible universe, i.e. 4.56Bn Light years away that we can actually see!) then it really becomes obvious how ridiculous the notion of a couple of lads in the Middle East on this tiny spec of dust being enlightened to all things by some magic in the sky actually is. All about that conditioning during youth though... 😂
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Wed 9 Dec 17:50

Quote:

hurricane_jimmy, Wed 9 Dec 15:11

Have to admit, I'd be along the same lines as saying about 16 weeks for the abortion limit. As men though I don't think we have a right to control what women do with their bodies.

As we've seen again though, the Christians are every bit as bad as fundamental as those other Abrahamic religions they claim superiority over.

All of these man-made mythological ideologies are just laughable. If nobody had heard of it and it suddenly appeared today then people would mock it in the same way as they do scientology.

If you study even a little Astrophysics, you soon see the insane scale of the universe (and its only the visible universe, i.e. 4.56Bn Light years away that we can actually see!) then it really becomes obvious how ridiculous the notion of a couple of lads in the Middle East on this tiny spec of dust being enlightened to all things by some magic in the sky actually is. All about that conditioning during youth though... 😂


Yet plenty scientists, including astophysicists believe in a God.

https://evangelicalfocus.com/science/881/Sarah-Salviander-The-journey-of-an-atheist-astrophysicist-who-became-a-Christian



Post Edited (Wed 09 Dec 17:50)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Wed 9 Dec 20:34

What percentage of Astrophysicists are religious ParROT?

We've seen in previous debates that you go on the defensive whenever your religion is questioned. Again, you show that conditioning is key.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Wed 9 Dec 22:11

Quote:

PARrot, Wed 9 Dec 17:50

Quote:

hurricane_jimmy, Wed 9 Dec 15:11

Have to admit, I'd be along the same lines as saying about 16 weeks for the abortion limit. As men though I don't think we have a right to control what women do with their bodies.

As we've seen again though, the Christians are every bit as bad as fundamental as those other Abrahamic religions they claim superiority over.

All of these man-made mythological ideologies are just laughable. If nobody had heard of it and it suddenly appeared today then people would mock it in the same way as they do scientology.

If you study even a little Astrophysics, you soon see the insane scale of the universe (and its only the visible universe, i.e. 4.56Bn Light years away that we can actually see!) then it really becomes obvious how ridiculous the notion of a couple of lads in the Middle East on this tiny spec of dust being enlightened to all things by some magic in the sky actually is. All about that conditioning during youth though... 😂


Yet plenty scientists, including astophysicists believe in a God.

https://evangelicalfocus.com/science/881/Sarah-Salviander-The-journey-of-an-atheist-astrophysicist-who-became-a-Christian


She might well believe in God. That means absolutely nothing though.
If she is an astrophysicist I can absolutely guarantee you she doesn't believe the universe is only 6000 years old.
So her having a belief in a higher power might well make sense to her she would absolutely not support your world view.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Wed 9 Dec 22:41

Oh it`s a warped mind that tries to stand up for the rights of the unborn child, I see. Kind of inverted logic that. Some on this thread are keen to accuse our God and Maker of cruelty from incidents that happened thousands of years ago which have no possible bearing on our lives today but when it does come down to things that affect us here and now they take a very liberal attitude. People are having abortions when casual sex goes wrong and they become pregnant or when they decide that a slightly deformed baby does not deserve to live. Our God says " before I formed you in the womb I knew you". He gives the unborn foetus the precious dignity of a human being. Oh but I am warped for thinking that. Am I also warped for saying that God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. God is real and whoever we are He loves us and does not want any of us to perish but we will if we ignore His wonderful way of salvation. Oh but don`t believe me, I`m completely warped.



Post Edited (Wed 09 Dec 22:43)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Wed 9 Dec 23:06

Quote:

Paralex, Wed 9 Dec 22:41

Oh it`s a warped mind that tries to stand up for the rights of the unborn child, I see. Kind of inverted logic that. Some on this thread are keen to accuse our God and Maker of cruelty from incidents that happened thousands of years ago which have no possible bearing on our lives today but when it does come down to things that affect us here and now they take a very liberal attitude. People are having abortions when casual sex goes wrong and they become pregnant or when they decide that a slightly deformed baby does not deserve to live. Our God says " before I formed you in the womb I knew you". He gives the unborn foetus the precious dignity of a human being. Oh but I am warped for thinking that. Am I also warped for saying that God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. God is real and whoever we are He loves us and does not want any of us to perish but we will if we ignore His wonderful way of salvation. Oh but don`t believe me, I`m completely warped.



Yes you are warped because you would happily have all the worlds muslim, all the world hindus, all the worlds followers of every other faith suffer eternal torture simply because of where they were born or what culture they were born into.
That is sick and twisted in my view.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Wed 9 Dec 23:30

Quote:

Paralex, Wed 9 Dec 22:41

Some on this thread are keen to accuse our God and Maker of cruelty from incidents that happened thousands of years ago


Didn't everything in the Bible happen thousands of years ago?

Are you suggesting we ignore all of it?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Wed 9 Dec 23:58

Quote:

hurricane_jimmy, Wed 9 Dec 20:34

What percentage of Astrophysicists are religious ParROT?

We've seen in previous debates that you go on the defensive whenever your religion is questioned. Again, you show that conditioning is key.


I don't. I don't feel in any way that I need to defend any religion. I just stated a fact that many scientists are Christians. I linked an example to an astrophysicist in particular as that was pertinant to your point.

You can argue or believe anything you like. I don't give a flying hoot! The fact is the world contains many extremely intelligent people, including scientists, doctors, surgeons engineers and ....the list goes on, who are theists.

By all means disagree but your idea that theists are stupid is just wrong.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 10 Dec 00:01

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Wed 9 Dec 23:06

Quote:

Paralex, Wed 9 Dec 22:41

Oh it`s a warped mind that tries to stand up for the rights of the unborn child, I see. Kind of inverted logic that. Some on this thread are keen to accuse our God and Maker of cruelty from incidents that happened thousands of years ago which have no possible bearing on our lives today but when it does come down to things that affect us here and now they take a very liberal attitude. People are having abortions when casual sex goes wrong and they become pregnant or when they decide that a slightly deformed baby does not deserve to live. Our God says " before I formed you in the womb I knew you". He gives the unborn foetus the precious dignity of a human being. Oh but I am warped for thinking that. Am I also warped for saying that God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. God is real and whoever we are He loves us and does not want any of us to perish but we will if we ignore His wonderful way of salvation. Oh but don`t believe me, I`m completely warped.



Yes you are warped because you would happily have all the worlds muslim, all the world hindus, all the worlds followers of every other faith suffer eternal torture simply because of where they were born or what culture they were born into.
That is sick and twisted in my view.


I don't know where you get that lot from.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 10 Dec 00:06

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Wed 9 Dec 22:11

Quote:

PARrot, Wed 9 Dec 17:50

Quote:

hurricane_jimmy, Wed 9 Dec 15:11

Have to admit, I'd be along the same lines as saying about 16 weeks for the abortion limit. As men though I don't think we have a right to control what women do with their bodies.

As we've seen again though, the Christians are every bit as bad as fundamental as those other Abrahamic religions they claim superiority over.

All of these man-made mythological ideologies are just laughable. If nobody had heard of it and it suddenly appeared today then people would mock it in the same way as they do scientology.

If you study even a little Astrophysics, you soon see the insane scale of the universe (and its only the visible universe, i.e. 4.56Bn Light years away that we can actually see!) then it really becomes obvious how ridiculous the notion of a couple of lads in the Middle East on this tiny spec of dust being enlightened to all things by some magic in the sky actually is. All about that conditioning during youth though... 😂


Yet plenty scientists, including astophysicists believe in a God.

https://evangelicalfocus.com/science/881/Sarah-Salviander-The-journey-of-an-atheist-astrophysicist-who-became-a-Christian


She might well believe in God. That means absolutely nothing though.
If she is an astrophysicist I can absolutely guarantee you she doesn't believe the universe is only 6000 years old.
So her having a belief in a higher power might well make sense to her she would absolutely not support your world view.


What is my world view.....the one she wouldn't support (you assume)

I think her article states she became Christian specifically.
I assume therefore that there is a chance that she believes in the 6000 year thing that you assume I may believe too.
I actually have no idea. Ive heard good arguments for and against the literal 6000 years. Don't really care which is correct and don't think it matters.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 10 Dec 00:53

I wouldn`t happily have anyone perish and neither would the God of the Bible which says that God is not willing that any should perish. That`s why Jesus said "go into all the world and preach the Gospel. That`s why many Christian missionaries gave their lives in doing so. That`s why my wife and I went to China to teach the Bible to Chinese students. People who have never heard the Gospel are dealt with by God in a different way than those who have heard and rejected it.

The Christmas message is that God Himself broke into this world as a baby. He grew up, became a man and made it known that he was the Messiah promised in the Old Testament. He didn`t come merely to give us a good example. He came to die for our sins but we need to humble ourselves and accept the free gift He offers us. That was the reason we had Christmas and that was the reason we gave gifts because God gave us Jesus Who offers us free forgiveness of sins and eternal life.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Thu 10 Dec 01:45

Quote:

Paralex, Thu 10 Dec 00:53

I wouldn`t happily have anyone perish and neither would the God of the Bible which says that God is not willing that any should perish. That`s why Jesus said "go into all the world and preach the Gospel. That`s why many Christian missionaries gave their lives in doing so. That`s why my wife and I went to China to teach the Bible to Chinese students. People who have never heard the Gospel are dealt with by God in a different way than those who have heard and rejected it.


So you actually go out of your way to make sure people brought up in other religions or cultures who have never heard of your beliefs with the knowledge that if they reject them they will suffer eternal torture. Which they are very likely to do as they are probably indoctrinated just as you are.
But if you didn't inform them they would be treated in a different way ( presumably less badly). I can't even begin to fathom what twisted mind would think that this is a good thing.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 10 Dec 02:28

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Thu 10 Dec 01:45

Quote:

Paralex, Thu 10 Dec 00:53

I wouldn`t happily have anyone perish and neither would the God of the Bible which says that God is not willing that any should perish. That`s why Jesus said "go into all the world and preach the Gospel. That`s why many Christian missionaries gave their lives in doing so. That`s why my wife and I went to China to teach the Bible to Chinese students. People who have never heard the Gospel are dealt with by God in a different way than those who have heard and rejected it.


So you actually go out of your way to make sure people brought up in other religions or cultures who have never heard of your beliefs with the knowledge that if they reject them they will suffer eternal torture. Which they are very likely to do as they are probably indoctrinated just as you are.
But if you didn't inform them they would be treated in a different way ( presumably less badly). I can't even begin to fathom what twisted mind would think that this is a good thing.


Me niether. Good job it's not the case.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 10 Dec 08:16

No that`s definitely not the reason I do it. I do it because Jesus tells His followers to go into all the world and teach the Gospel. I do it to see the delight on people`s faces when they come to know Jesus themselves. I do it to encourage Christian believers in other countries who are under pressure because their Governments persecute Christians. One young pastor in China`s face lit up when he heard that I was from Scotland because his family several generations before had heard the precious Gospel of Jesus through the great Scottish missionary William Chalmers Burns. When you see God working in people`s lives and transforming their hearts bringing the life saving Gospel to people is the greatest calling a person can have.



Post Edited (Thu 10 Dec 08:19)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Thu 10 Dec 08:47

Quote:

Paralex, Thu 10 Dec 08:16

No that`s definitely not the reason I do it. I do it because Jesus tells His followers to go into all the world and teach the Gospel. I do it to see the delight on people`s faces when they come to know Jesus themselves. I do it to encourage Christian believers in other countries who are under pressure because their Governments persecute Christians. One young pastor in China`s face lit up when he heard that I was from Scotland because his family several generations before had heard the precious Gospel of Jesus through the great Scottish missionary William Chalmers Burns. When you see God working in people`s lives and transforming their hearts bringing the life saving Gospel to people is the greatest calling a person can have.



Why are you going to Asia to teach the Gospel, the Holy spirit expressly forbids it.

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia.

In fact why preach it to any Gentiles? Jesus says not to.

Matthew 10:5-6 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Post Edited (Thu 10 Dec 08:48)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 10 Dec 14:08

Good to see you`ve been reading the Bible sadindiefreak but a wee bit further study will indicate that these quotations are very specific to their context and not general instructions that override the great commission of "go into all the world and preach the gospel"

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Thu 10 Dec 15:50

Quote:

Paralex, Thu 10 Dec 14:08

Good to see you`ve been reading the Bible sadindiefreak but a wee bit further study will indicate that these quotations are very specific to their context and not general instructions that override the great commission of "go into all the world and preach the gospel"


Of course I have been reading the bible.
Thats why I'm an atheist.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 10 Dec 16:56

I do regret that sadindiefreak because as the great spokesperson for atheism (Richard Dawkins) says:-

"The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference."

Thankfully that is not what I have experienced in my life and many others will agree with me that it is not their experience either. Of course Mr. Dawkins goes on to say that there is an appearance of design in the universe (which must serve as one of the greatest understatements ever made). When we put our lives into God`s hands there is great purpose. Good and evil is part of our every day experience. Jesus did good to many and Hitler did evil. Pitiless indifference is not my experience of life. There are so many that are reaching out in kindness right now.



Post Edited (Thu 10 Dec 23:57)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 24 Dec 22:10

Can`t let Christmas Eve go without a comment.

"He came down to earth from heaven
Who is God and Lord of all,
And His shelter was a stable
And His cradle was a stall"

Did the God who has given us all life actually become a man and live among us? Can we really know if there is any purpose to our lives? Can we really know if the God who created us actually cares anything about us?

Who is He in yonder stall,
At whose feet the shepherds fall?
Tis the Lord Oh wondrous story,
Tis the Lord the King of glory,
At His feet we humbly fall,
Crown Him Crown Him
Lord of all.

Dear Pars supporters, this is no fairy tale. This is the second most import thing that ever happened. The most important was the fact that He gave up His life on the cross that you and I might have life eternal. "Eye has not seen nor ear heard, neither has it entered the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those who love Him".

"Lo within a manger lies, He who built the starry skies
Tis the Lord Oh wondrous story,
Tis the Lord, the King of glory,
At His feet we humbly fall,
Crown Him, crown Him Lord of all."

There are so many things that compete for our attention in our lives but don`t forget to give a thought to the God who has given us life. Don`t be duped by those who say we came about by an undirected process. We were wonderfully made.

I thank you all Pars fans on these forums for helping me through these difficult months. Possibly many of you have personal circumstances that are not ideal and I have too but the camaraderie and footballing wisdom of my fellow fans has been a real asset in difficult times. We love the Pars and always will but the Love of God must always come first. Set your heart on Him, trust Him and follow Him. He will never let you down.

"God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks to us in our conscience and shouts to us in our pains. It`s His megaphone to rouse a deaf world." C.S.Lewis.



Post Edited (Fri 25 Dec 02:28)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Thu 24 Dec 23:30

Snooze
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Fri 25 Dec 22:08

Braw. Love it, but 25th December.....naw!

That is Saturnalia, a Roman festival. Nothing to do with Christ. For this reason I am not offended by secular groups saying happy holliday. Holliday means (holy day anyway).
No problem picking a day to celebrate the birth of Christ but I think he would prefer we followed the Jewish feast patterns rather than the pagan Saturnalia and Easter.



Post Edited (Fri 25 Dec 22:15)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Fri 25 Dec 23:01

I dont care when Xmas is as long as I still get enough socks to last the year 🤣

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Fri 25 Dec 23:36

Quote:

widtink, Fri 25 Dec 23:01

I dont care when Xmas is as long as I still get enough socks to last the year 🤣


So dae ye go commando?

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Fri 25 Dec 23:40

Only when on manoeuvres 🤣

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 02:09

Can`t turn back the clock now Parrot. Having Christmas in midwinter is good from several points of view and for Christians it is a very useful exercise to contemplate annually the wonderful action of God breaking into human history as a baby. It also gives us great excuse to sing and listen to Christmas carols, many of which are full of fantastic theology, beautiful poetry and exquisite music. Listen to John Rutter`s version of "O Holy Night". Truly sublime and captures something of the amazing wonder of the event.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 09:16

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 12:34

Not surprised you find the incarnation difficult to grasp EEP, most people do as I do but there were wise men from the East who understood there was something very special happening and later on an old man called Simeon in Luke chapter 2 had a very clear understanding of the awesome thing that God was going to do in the life death and resurrection of His son.

God became flesh and dwelt among us. He came to His own people and they despised and rejected Him. God came and lived with us for 32 years. We didn`t recognise who He was and we put Him to death.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 12:40

Quote:

Paralex, Sat 26 Dec 12:34

Not surprised you find the incarnation difficult to grasp EEP, most people do as I do but there were wise men from the East who understood there was something very special happening and later on an old man called Simeon in Luke chapter 2 had a very clear understanding of the awesome thing that God was going to do in the life death and resurrection of His son.

God became flesh and dwelt among us. He came to His own people and they despised and rejected Him. God came and lived with us for 32 years. We didn`t recognise who He was and we put Him to death.


You do realise that these "wise" men probably had the IQ of a primary 7 child these days and were probably very poorly educated.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 13:27

That maybe so moviescot, but I doubt it. They had a pretty good grasp of astronomy and astrology to be able to read the signs in the stars. But we don`t need phd`s or great IQs to grasp the truth of the Gospel. It seems that God is more prepared to reveal himself to people who are humble in heart and have a low opinion of their supposed wisdom.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: MikeyLeonard  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 13:29

jesus christ........no this religious guff again 😔
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 14:03

Maybe that response illustrates the point of Isaiah 53 verse 3. "He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows and familiar with suffering". "But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities, the punishment that brought us peace was upon him".

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 15:53

Quote:

Paralex, Sat 26 Dec 13:27

That maybe so moviescot, but I doubt it. They had a pretty good grasp of astronomy and astrology to be able to read the signs in the stars. But we don`t need phd`s or great IQs to grasp the truth of the Gospel. It seems that God is more prepared to reveal himself to people who are humble in heart and have a low opinion of their supposed wisdom.


I don't doubt it. They were Primary 7 educated at best possibly even 6. My daughter knew more of the world and stars at P6 then they ever did. And as for astrology that's a pseudoscience. Just the sort of stupid nonsense that these poorly educated people would believe.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 16:22

But as I said we don`t need great education to hear God speaking to us moviescot. God spoke to young Samuel in the temple and he heard his voice and obeyed and served Him all his life.

But it seemed that God did convey enough information through an unusual phenomenon in the stars to let them know that something great was happening in Bethlehem. They may not have had great overall knowledge but they had a revelation from God that nobody else in the world at that time apart from the shepherds in the field at Bethlehem had. Go chooses who He speaks to and He will reveal Himself to you too if you really want Him to.



Post Edited (Sat 26 Dec 17:18)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 17:34

Quote:

MikeyLeonard, Sat 26 Dec 13:29

jesus christ........no this religious guff again 😔


What would you expect on a thread entitled, "God." Why bother opening it?

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 18:35

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 19:40

Thought you might have known that from your Sunday School days EEP, (1Samuel chapter 3) but maybe you didn`t go the week they were doing that story. I`m sure there were plenty good sunday schools going in Dunfermline in your young days. St. Ninians, the North Parish church and several Baptist churches. Any of these could have expanded your knowledge of these wonderful historic Bible stories. Oh and I put a wee note in the Wailing Wall myself 6 years ago. It said "thank you God for your precious Son Jesus, a truly Jewish man but the Saviour of all who truly believe in Him".



Post Edited (Sat 26 Dec 19:42)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 20:41

Quote:

Paralex, Sat 26 Dec 16:22

But as I said we don`t need great education to hear God speaking to us moviescot. God spoke to young Samuel in the temple and he heard his voice and obeyed and served Him all his life.

But it seemed that God did convey enough information through an unusual phenomenon in the stars to let them know that something great was happening in Bethlehem. They may not have had great overall knowledge but they had a revelation from God that nobody else in the world at that time apart from the shepherds in the field at Bethlehem had. Go chooses who He speaks to and He will reveal Himself to you too if you really want Him to.



Yes but uneducated people such as they were are easily duped. And boy were they duped.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 21:11

Two of the strongest Christian`s I know are Professors at Glasgow University so I guess that kind of defeats the argument that only uneducated people are Christian believers.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 21:27

You need to be particularly thick to suggest Christians are either weak or uneducated.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 21:59

Quote:

Paralex, Sat 26 Dec 21:11

Two of the strongest Christian`s I know are Professors at Glasgow University so I guess that kind of defeats the argument that only uneducated people are Christian believers.


Not talking about current day Christians. Talking about the idiots that started the fairy tales.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 21:59

Quote:

Paralex, Sat 26 Dec 21:11

Two of the strongest Christian`s I know are Professors at Glasgow University so I guess that kind of defeats the argument that only uneducated people are Christian believers.


How educated after you because that's not what I said.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 22:29

It`s either a fairy tale or the "power of God for salvation to everyone who believes ". I go for option nr 2.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: MikeyLeonard  
Date:   Sat 26 Dec 22:45

Quote:

PARrot, Sat 26 Dec 17:34

Quote:

MikeyLeonard, Sat 26 Dec 13:29

jesus christ........no this religious guff again 😔


What would you expect on a thread entitled, "God." Why bother opening it?


So I could post a moan about it. . . .thought that was pretty obvious. Doh
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 27 Dec 09:21

Quote:

MikeyLeonard, Sat 26 Dec 22:45

Quote:

PARrot, Sat 26 Dec 17:34

Quote:

MikeyLeonard, Sat 26 Dec 13:29

jesus christ........no this religious guff again 😔


What would you expect on a thread entitled, "God." Why bother opening it?


So I could post a moan about it. . . .thought that was pretty obvious. Doh



I sincerely hope your day gets better.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 27 Dec 09:26

Quote:

moviescot, Sat 26 Dec 21:59

Quote:

Paralex, Sat 26 Dec 21:11

Two of the strongest Christian`s I know are Professors at Glasgow University so I guess that kind of defeats the argument that only uneducated people are Christian believers.


Not talking about current day Christians. Talking about the idiots that started the fairy tales.


You mean the ones who witnessed it first hand and were so weak they willingly endured the wrath of Rome and their circus.
I wonder if many aethiests are so strong they would hold as fast to their beliefs when facing hungry lions.
Takes a bit of balls eh!

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sun 27 Dec 09:47

Quote:

PARrot, Sun 27 Dec 09:26

Quote:

moviescot, Sat 26 Dec 21:59

Quote:

Paralex, Sat 26 Dec 21:11

Two of the strongest Christian`s I know are Professors at Glasgow University so I guess that kind of defeats the argument that only uneducated people are Christian believers.


Not talking about current day Christians. Talking about the idiots that started the fairy tales.


You mean the ones who witnessed it first hand and were so weak they willingly endured the wrath of Rome and their circus.
I wonder if many aethiests are so strong they would hold as fast to their beliefs when facing hungry lions.
Takes a bit of balls eh!


There is no documented evidence of anyone having witnessed Jesus. The first mention is decades after his supposed existence.
Tales of Christians being fed to the lions etc are also vastly exaggerated.
Over a 300 year period only around 80 Christians faced any punishment from the Romans that could be attributed to their faith. Hardly the mass persecution its made out to be. While millions have died at the hands of Christians for being "heretics" or having another faith.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Sun 27 Dec 10:34

The first written documentation about Jesus were at least 50 years after his death. These were not first hand accounts. These were written down from word of mouth stories.
Anyone who has played Chinese whispers will know how even a simple phrase can change between only 10 people. Imagine the difference in a tale being told over 50 years.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sun 27 Dec 12:09

We can`t go back 2000 years to check it out for ourselves so unlike the apostle Thomas we won`t get physical proof that Jesus lived but the important thing for us is that He is alive now and He calls us to give our lives to Him. I wonder if you believe that the Apostle Paul ever lived. He met Jesus several years after Jesus had ascended back into heaven. The meeting completely changed his life. So much so that he was beaten, imprisoned and finally beheaded for his faith in Jesus. He said for me to live is Christ and to die is gain. Paul`s final days in Rome are well documented. We know where he died and where he is buried. Meeting Jesus Christ produces a complete revolution in our lives. He is doing that for many right now and He can do it for you.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sun 27 Dec 12:11

Naw he cannae.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sun 27 Dec 13:14

Ah we have to want Him to more than anything else Widtink.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sun 27 Dec 13:37

Nah... I want tae win the lottery more.
Does that make me a bad person?
Hey ho... 🤣

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sun 27 Dec 13:55

We are all bad people "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" and "the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all". And "there is no other name given to men by which we must be saved".

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sun 27 Dec 14:06

Is there anything that you don't have a quote from the bible for? 🤣

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Sun 27 Dec 16:09

I believe it is generally accepted that Jesus ( or Yeshua) was a real person. There is some evidence for the the existence of Jesus. But of course which Jesus? Jesus was an fairly common name at the time.

Anything written down about his teachings etc were written down dinner 50plus years after his death. As I've said before over a period of 50 years of verbal stories can change and be vastly embellished

Take some truth and make it more interesting. Probably not intentionally but just to make the stories better.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Sun 27 Dec 17:10

Quote:

Paralex, Sun 27 Dec 12:09wonder if you believe that the Apostle Paul ever lived. He met Jesus several years after Jesus had ascended back into heaven.


Sounds like the Apostle Paul was a major bull sht artist and someone had enough of his cr@p 🤷🏻‍♂️

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sun 27 Dec 20:48

Of course all of that could be true, that it is all made up fables, although four gospel writers tell us that Jesus lived in Israel. They tell us about the things he did in and around Galilee and in Jerusalem. They all tell us that He died on a Roman cross and came back to life.I didn`t believe that Jesus had any power to change my life but I am eternally grateful that someone told me that I needed His death on the cross to pay for my sins and give me spiritual life. When I asked Jesus to be my Saviour He came into my life by his Holy Spirit and gave me a real relationship with His father God. What Jesus did worked for me and for countless others that I know. If someone told me how I could be saved from eternal loss and it really works, it would be quite wrong of me to keep that Good News to myself and not tell as many people as I can about it.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: RhinoPars  
Date:   Sun 27 Dec 22:14

Paralex, despite your claims that you have, you have clearly NOT "looked very carefully into scientific theories for the existence of the universe and the solar system and human and animal life." I am afraid the evidence for evolution is overwhelming from many different fields of study. However I suspect your religion is so important to you personally that you suffer badly from Cognitive Dissonance on this. FYI humans are also animals (albeit the cleverest species on the planet).

If you are prepared to keep an open mind I suggest you read Richard Dawkins` The Blind Watchmaker or Climbing Mount improbable to better understand how complex life can evolve through many small steps over time without the need for anyone in the universe to wave a magic wand and instantly "create" different species. Simple rules (in evolution`s case selection pressures operating on genetic variability) can over time result in very complex outcomes.

While I am sure Richard Dawkins will be quite happy to be called Richard, he has a PhD and was a Professor at Oxford for many years. Upon retiring he was also appointed Emeritus Professor. Therefore if you insist on using titles when you refer to him, he should be Professor or Dr not Mr.

Granted we don`t (yet) know how life and DNA came into being or how the big bang occurred to start our universe. However, once you have DNA and habitable planets then natural selection processes can over (in most cases) long periods result in the evolution of complex lifeforms such as us Humans.

Strictly speaking we are a little intercrossed with Neandertals with some people in Asia having some genetic variants from Denisovans. Analysis of my DNA shows I have inherited a small amount of DNA from my Neanderthal ancestors. Out of the 7,462 variants tested, I had 231 variants in my DNA that can be traced back to Neanderthals - representing



Post Edited (Sun 27 Dec 22:18)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: RhinoPars  
Date:   Sun 27 Dec 22:33

end of post cut off.

-representing less than 2% of my DNA. At least I inherited six Neandertal variants associated with being a better sprinter than a distance runner. While this may explain my limited abilities as a long-distance runner, when I was younger, being faster than average was useful when I was playing football, rugby, cricket, hockey and ultimate frisbee.

As a secularist I strongly support your right to believe in what you want as long as you don`t impinge on my life and attack my right to freedom of speech and thought. If you make extraordinary claims you can expect to be asked to be asked to provide extraordinary evidence to support them. Like Ritchie I sadly suspect you will not be prepared to try to understand and study evolution genuinely. We will probably have to agree to disagree. At least we both support the Pars!

I hope you had a great Christmas just as I had a nice festive season.

Post Edited (Sun 27 Dec 22:45)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 28 Dec 21:41

Paralex... I'm looking for a new car.
What would Jesus drive in these times?

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Mon 28 Dec 22:07

Quote:

widtink, Mon 28 Dec 21:41

Paralex... I'm looking for a new car.
What would Jesus drive in these times?


A Triumph(ant) Herald

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Tue 29 Dec 12:19

You are quite wrong Rhinopars I have made extensive study into theories concerning the origins of life and it comes down to the simple choice that either you believe that a god called natural selection working on random mutations created everything or that a transcendent all powerful mind created everything. Neo Darwinians are still scrambling in the dark to discover the Power behind creation and it`s not natural selection because it lacks the power to create novel life forms.

The discovery of remains of different kinds of human like creatures is also fascinating. One view is that the first man was the original Heidelberg man and that Neanderthals, Denisovans and Homo Sapiens were descended from Heidelberg man. New evidence appears fairly regularly.



Post Edited (Tue 29 Dec 12:57)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 29 Dec 14:19

Quote:

Paralex, Tue 29 Dec 12:19

You are quite wrong Rhinopars I have made extensive study into theories concerning the origins of life and it comes down to the simple choice that either you believe that a god called natural selection working on random mutations created everything or that a transcendent all powerful mind created everything. Neo Darwinians are still scrambling in the dark to discover the Power behind creation and it`s not natural selection because it lacks the power to create novel life forms.

The discovery of remains of different kinds of human like creatures is also fascinating. One view is that the first man was the original Heidelberg man and that Neanderthals, Denisovans and Homo Sapiens were descended from Heidelberg man. New evidence appears fairly regularly.



So a species that predates Neanderthals is what you think "Adam" was.
So God created man in his own image but that man was a creature less evolved than a Neanderthal.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Tue 29 Dec 15:44

No I reckon Neanderthals was truly human, descended from Adam.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 29 Dec 15:50

Quote:

Paralex, Tue 29 Dec 15:44

No I reckon Neanderthals was truly human, descended from Adam.


😂😂😂😂😂😂
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Tue 29 Dec 15:56

Neanderthals were not necessarily less evolved since they married into our species. Unless you think they forced themselves upon our species they managed to win the hearts of young ladies and that I would imagine shows some degree of refinement.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 29 Dec 15:58

Quote:

Paralex, Tue 29 Dec 15:56

Neanderthals were not necessarily less evolved since they married into our species. Unless you think they forced themselves upon our species they managed to win the hearts of young ladies and that I would imagine shows some degree of refinement.


Married Neanderthals? 😂😂😂😂😂😂 And you expect to be taken seriously.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Tue 29 Dec 16:23

How else do you explain the inter breeding.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

But all of that is in the cloudy mists of time and subject to high degrees of conjecture. All types of scientists have come to wrong conclusions about things before now. For example until the early part of the 20th Century Neo Darwinian scientists believed that the universe was eternal, that it didn`t have a beginning. Now it seems to be universally accepted that the universe did have a beginning. What great power I wonder caused something so vast and powerful to come into being. Oh it was natural selection working on random variations. I think my head needs to be zipped up the back to believe that one.


Post Edited (Tue 29 Dec 16:37)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 29 Dec 16:35

Quote:

Paralex, Tue 29 Dec 16:23

How else do you explain the inter breeding.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


How do you explain interbreeding between different species of dog?
Don't see loads of dogs getting married, do you?
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Tue 29 Dec 16:48

Well if you go down that line you would have to believe that our ancestors were unthinking beasts who had no refinement at all. That doesn`t seem to be the case with creatures who painted in caves and had communal sensitivities. Did a sense of right and wrong or conscience or the ability to relate to and worship God also "evolve". Probably not enough time for that in the evolutionary scale of things. No, humankind has a dignity and value that is much greater than the animals who are subject to him. We can know God. We can love God. We can meet with Him at the deepest level of our need. If we truly want Him to He comes into our lives and shows us His great loving kindness. It`s that very thing that softens our hearts and fills us with His peace even in the face of death.



Post Edited (Tue 29 Dec 19:14)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Wed 30 Dec 09:24

I wonder how much honest investigation Rhinopars has made into theories about the origins of life. I would contend that he has probably only read those books and articles that tend to uphold or enhance his preconceptions. We all do it Rhinopars. Mr. Dawkins is entertaining enough but he sees no purpose in human life which is a pretty bleak outlook. He sees no design in life or does he? Because he admits there is an appearance of design. Oh well observed Mr. Dawkins, only an appearance? Where is the design that the Neo Darwinian mechanism of gradual change over a very long time through natural selection working on random mutations cannot account for? It is in the digital coding in DNA and it is in the molecular machinery that operate within our own bodies. Any computer programmer will tell you that complex programs don`t work themselves out they need someone to painstakingly input the data. Oh but Neo Darwinists believe that natural selection did it through trial and error and won`t accept the notion that maybe it was actually designed.

Every so often in the history of humankind a figure emerges with a point of view that shakes the current established ways of thinking. Such a man is a wee grandad from Pennsylvania who wears a bunnet and jeans. The Neo Darwinian establishment don`t like him because his views don`t sit easily with the Darwinian doctrines they want to preserve at all costs. They scoff at him and laugh off his assertions but in the background they have no scientific proofs to counter his assertions only in their own words, "a series of wishful speculations". The man is Professor Michael Behe who coined the phrase "irreducible complexity". The irreducible complexity refers to the molecular machines which perform vital functions within our own bodies. They are made up of many parts and require all of the parts to function properly. No scientific experiment has yet been carried out that begins to explain how such a complex machine could possibly have come about through the Darwinian process of gradual change over time. Even though scientific discoveries point unmistakably to the input of a designer the Darwinian Establishment holds to the creed of one of its foremost members who said, " we should reject as a matter of principle the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity, even though there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations".

So you see we are all being duped into thinking that Neo Darwinian scientists have all the answers when we are being fed with pseudo science eminating from a preconceived world view.



Post Edited (Wed 30 Dec 10:55)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 30 Dec 16:05

Putting the prefix ’Neo’ in front of ‘Darwinism’ will not discredit the theory any more than the theory of ‘Intelligent Design’ would be any more discredited by calling it Neo Creationism. All theories have to be adapted in light of new evidence.
Which it is why only a poor scientist would ever claim to know ‘The Truth.’ That conceit remains the privilege of high priests and theology. A good scientist knows that he, or she, is only presenting the best account of reality available at the given time.

Your comments regarding Neanderthals are a good example of this. The old fashioned notion that Neanderthals were knuckle dragging brutes has little supporting evidence, and almost every year the ‘discovery’ of tool making, sailing, art is placed back another few thousand years into our history. Given that Neanderthals had the same potential brain capacity as modern humans and that their life would have been more precarious, the likelihood is that they were just as intelligent as modern humans and as capable of us as concrete and abstract thought. That they dreamed, loved their children, acquired tribal affiliations and frequently warred with rivals I would take as read. So, all too recognisably human save for the fact that their technology and science was, by our standards, primitive. Thus far I can agree with you, even to the extent that Neanderthals would have likely had their own form of what we might call religion.

The problem is that modern homo sapiens only contains Neanderthal DNA outside of Africa, so if the mythological Adam was indeed the father of Neanderthals he did not presumably originate from the very place that science and common sense indicates homo sapiens first appeared. Which hits on another problem, for me at any rate. Why did God, of all the places on earth, decide to send his son (and only one at that, and no daughters) into a dry, desert area to preach the gospel instead of Africa, where he’d decided to set the whole homo sapiens show into motion in the first place?

sammer
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Wed 30 Dec 17:16

Your point about people saying that they know the truth rings quite true Sammer. What a cheek to say they are custodians of the truth. Who do they think they are? That is my response too. Jesus is recorded as not just saying He knows the truth but that He is the truth. What an absolute joke!! Who does He think He is. That would be my reaction too. Unless in fact He was Who He said He was. Was He the most important person who ever lived or just a con man faker? Was He completely deluded Monty Python type joke figure or the Saviour of the world? Whoever He was we can`t ignore His claims. They are stated quite clearly in the gospels. Our human time scale in the Western world is based on His life. We live in the year 2020 based on the approximate year of His birth. He is in our face and we are forced to come to a conclusion as to Who He was/is. And the possibility remains that He is the Truth and if He was/is He had every right to say so.

I can`t disagree with much of the rest of what you say. Studies in genetics projecting way back into the past will probably give skewed results and while I find that fascinating too I await further research and new discoveries.

I`m not sure why you think it strange that a Messiah figure should appear in Israel rather than Africa.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 30 Dec 21:52

My assumption is that Jesus was a Che Guevara character of his time, a man who spoke fearless truth to those in authority, calling for a better world. He was soon executed as most are who try this are and then forgotten. But he had a powerful enough message that could inspire those who followed.

My point about Africa is that Homo Sapiens first appeared there. When the first signs of lapsing from God’s Will first became apparent God should have sent his son there to sort things out. Instead, for reasons unfathomable, he sent his son into a desert people. Maybe God was anti-Semitic and disliked Jews.

Home Sapiens in Africa did not have the necessity to interbreed with Neanderthal so far as we know, therefore interbreeding is a northern hemisphere feature. So I can’t understand how Adam can be seen as the father of Neanderthal man who is very much a northern hemisphere influence on Homo Sapiens. Was Adam Caucasian? An Aryan?

As for the gospel, spreading the good news in Aramaic would have been as useful as spreading Einstein’s Theory of Relativity in Gaelic. A good message for sure, but what a chance to take. God certainly backed his judgement on that one.

sammer
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 31 Dec 00:38

It`s only a theory Sammer but the only Christian apologist I have heard giving lectures about the subject is William Lane Craig, a fairly well known debater who has debated with Richard Dawkins. I suppose that excavated remains of humanoid are relatively scarce and to some extent only a sketchy picture is known. There was an early humanoid found in Heidelberg in Germany and Craig theorises that this was the correct timescale for a father figure to other humans from which we are all descended. It doesn`t mean that the founding father of Heidelberg man came from Germany, it is possible later generations migrated there. I suppose Craig starts from a Christian point of view and tries to make sense of information that seems to indicate different kinds of humanoid and timescales.

People have to make their own mind up about Jesus and that is up to us all to do that. Your assumption about Him doesn`t fit in with the Biblical view of His life. There were Che Guevara characters around at the time of Christ but He refused to be an ordinary revolutionary seeking to change only social and political values. The people wanted someone to free them from the power of Roman occupation but He refused to do that. While He taught lessons about spiritual life and morality, healed the sick and challenged the religious authorities the overwhelming reason for His appearance in the world was to die, taking the place of the Jewish sacrificial system and becoming the sacrificial Lamb of God who would take away the sin of those who called on Him for forgiveness and turning away the righteous anger of His father God from punishing us for our sinfulness. That is a far more radical revolution than any that Che Guevara or his like were ever involved in. That is the Bible teaching of the purpose of Jesus. At one church I attended as a boy in Glasgow I was taught that Jesus was no more than a good example but that is a far cry from what the Bible actually teaches. The death of Christ brings transforming power into peoples lives right now. I was reading about Sir Anthony Hopkins tonight. He was an atheist and an alcoholic. A woman challenged him at an AA meeting. Why don`t you just trust in God she said. He was at rock bottom and desperate so he asked God please to help him. He is now a Christian believer and the power of the Christian gospel saved him. God is near to the crushed in spirit.

I suppose there can be many questions as to why God has chosen to do things in a certain way and I don`t have answers to that. To my mind the Judeo Christian method is the one that God has used to provide a solid answer to the human dilemma.He has provided us with a way out of our problem a free gift that doesn`t need to be worked for. It is accepted by faith. No other religion offers the certainty of full and free forgiveness of sins from our creator God. Because of Jesus death and resurrection we can know where we stand with God. We are in the clear with Him, ransomed, redeemed, restored and forgiven.



Post Edited (Thu 31 Dec 00:41)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sun 3 Jan 21:23

"I can cry at the drop of a hat because the wonderful, terrible passion of life is so short."

He also said that which runs particularly true, I'd love nothing more for there to be an afterlife, to think that when we die there's somewhere to go, where you could hold your memories and meet loved ones dearly departed would be incredible, I just can't see it at all which is incredibly sad.

There's just so much pointing against it, with nothing pointing towards it other than faith.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 3 Jan 21:33

Good post Grant .... my auld Gran used to say to me when a loved one or friend died.... Weel they will ken the secret noo

Post Edited (Mon 04 Jan 08:31)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Mon 11 Jan 14:43

Can we know absolute truth?

A certain man who some say was born in Fortingall, Perthshire, asked Jesus in John chapter 18, "what is truth". He obviously didn`t accept Jesus` statement that those who were on the side of truth recognised the truth that Jesus spoke and paid attention to Him because Pontius Pilate sent Jesus to his death.

Unless we want to hide our heads in the sand, surely if the truth about our human condition is available, we would want to know what it is.

Is the truth that is available to us as confused as our own generation makes out by the thought that one person`s "truth" is as valid as any other`s. Or is there truth that has been unmistakenly preserved and passed down the generations for us to study, to consider and understand.

No person in the history of the world had a more profound decision to make about Jesus than the man Pontius Pilate. He agonized about it. His wife had disturbing dreams about it and warned her husband not to harm Jesus. But he couldn`t find it in himself to come out on Jesus` side. He ordered Him to be beaten and handed over for crucifixion.

Jesus endured His punishment with calm acceptance and prayed on the cross, "Father forgive them they don`t know what they are doing". Jesus offers full and free forgiveness to us all because like Pontius Pilate we have all decided against Him. But the forgiveness is not automatic, we have to ask for it.

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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Mon 11 Jan 16:14

Quote:

Paralex, Mon 11 Jan 14:43

Can we know absolute truth?

A certain man who some say was born in Fortingall, Perthshire, asked Jesus in John chapter 18, "what is truth". He obviously didn`t accept Jesus` statement that those who were on the side of truth recognised the truth that Jesus spoke and paid attention to Him because Pontius Pilate sent Jesus to his death.

Unless we want to hide our heads in the sand, surely if the truth about our human condition is available, we would want to know what it is.

Is the truth that is available to us as confused as our own generation makes out by the thought that one person`s "truth" is as valid as any other`s. Or is there truth that has been unmistakenly preserved and passed down the generations for us to study, to consider and understand.

No person in the history of the world had a more profound decision to make about Jesus than the man Pontius Pilate. He agonized about it. His wife had disturbing dreams about it and warned her husband not to harm Jesus. But he couldn`t find it in himself to come out on Jesus` side. He ordered Him to be beaten and handed over for crucifixion.

Jesus endured His punishment with calm acceptance and prayed on the cross, "Father forgive them they don`t know what they are doing". Jesus offers full and free forgiveness to us all because like Pontius Pilate we have all decided against Him. But the forgiveness is not automatic, we have to ask for it.


You are no longer using this thread as a conversation about religion but using it to preach your bs.

As the person who started this can I ask admin to close comments on this thread to stop this religious extremist pushing any more of his vile worldview on us.
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 11 Jan 16:51



Admin
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 11 Jan 17:17

Unfortunately I don`t seem to be able to close the thread at this time (probably a glitch with the system).
So it`s either leave it here for now until the glitch is fixed.... Or delete the thread entirely.
Your call.

Admin
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Mon 11 Jan 17:28

Quote:

widtink, Mon 11 Jan 17:17

Unfortunately I don`t seem to be able to close the thread at this time


Is that the power of prayer at work?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Mon 11 Jan 17:37

I`m happy to be sidelined but I urge you all not to sideline Jesus.


But it does seem that this forum seems to be fine with people using the precious name of Jesus as a swearword but there is an objection to those who love His name and want to stand up for it.


Post Edited (Mon 11 Jan 17:52)
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 Re: God.
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Mon 11 Jan 19:09

Quote:

widtink, Mon 11 Jan 17:17

Unfortunately I don`t seem to be able to close the thread at this time (probably a glitch with the system).
So it`s either leave it here for now until the glitch is fixed.... Or delete the thread entirely.
Your call.


Delete.
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