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 SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Tue 13 Jul 17:53

Pleased to confirm I managed to get some of my money back

https://order-order.com/2021/07/13/scottish-police-launch-snp-fraud-probe/

Post Edited (Tue 13 Jul 18:00)
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 13 Jul 18:23

You got your money back and the police have just started their investigation?

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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Tue 13 Jul 19:11

Quote:

wee eck, Tue 13 Jul 18:23

You got your money back and the police have just started their investigation?


Yip £120 , still trying to get the remainder. Many folk who committed to the ringfenced fund have been reimbursed.
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 13 Jul 19:47

The cash must be available then?

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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Tue 13 Jul 20:01

Quote:

wee eck, Tue 13 Jul 19:47

The cash must be available then?


Certainly was for me.

Think the Polis may have it in for the Independence Movement, first Salmond and now the Murrells.

Hopefully the Polis deploy the 22 officers they put on the Salmond investigation .

Post Edited (Tue 13 Jul 20:02)
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 13 Jul 23:33

I think the problem for the SNP is that they appear to have used the terms ring fenced and earmarked interchangeably when describing the intent for the money where they have two different meanings and potentially raise different expectations in the eyes of the donors.

Its SNP supporters, or at least former SNP supporters, that have made the complaints to the police so I don't think it's a vendetta.

From what I can make out the gist of the complaints are that the people who donated are claiming they were told and believed the money would be ring fenced and not spent on anything other than another Indy referendum.

The SNP appear to be claiming that the money is still earmarked for that purpose but have not provided evidence that the money has been ring fenced (and from what I can tell are not legally obliged to under party account reporting rules) so it will come down to whether the police find evidence that the SNP have fraudulently obtained the donations (I.e. they made knowingly false claims when the money was donated or were reckless with the use of the money) based on the complaints that have been made.

I'll be surprised if they find evidence of fraud but it does look a bit of a mess from the outside.

Post Edited (Tue 13 Jul 23:39)
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 13 Jul 23:55

Quote:

Tenruh, Tue 13 Jul 17:53

Pleased to confirm I managed to get some of my money back

https://order-order.com/2021/07/13/scottish-police-launch-snp-fraud-probe/


Guido Fawkes. OMG whats with the posting links to toxic right wingers.
Are you sure you actually want independence cause you have a damned funny way of showing it?
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Wed 14 Jul 00:13

I agree SIF, some of the stuff Tenruh posts is the sort of thing I have seen increasingly from some so-called independence supporters. I think parts of the movement have been infiltrated by agitators who are trying to derail everything. I was almost distracted by them myself
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Wed 14 Jul 06:11

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Tue 13 Jul 23:55

Quote:

Tenruh, Tue 13 Jul 17:53

Pleased to confirm I managed to get some of my money back

https://order-order.com/2021/07/13/scottish-police-launch-snp-fraud-probe/


Guido Fawkes. OMG whats with the posting links to toxic right wingers.
Are you sure you actually want independence cause you have a damned funny way of showing it?


https://www.thenational.scot/news/19438835.police-announce-formal-investigation-snp-fundraising/

Here's a sanitised version of the story for you.

Post Edited (Wed 14 Jul 06:14)
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Wed 14 Jul 06:19

Quote:

red-star-par, Wed 14 Jul 00:13

I agree SIF, some of the stuff Tenruh posts is the sort of thing I have seen increasingly from some so-called independence supporters. I think parts of the movement have been infiltrated by agitators who are trying to derail everything. I was almost distracted by them myself


The biggest agitator to the independence movement is the SNP Leader and her husband.
Try paying attention and you'll see she has completely destroyed the independence movement,as confirmed by your personal attack on myself

Post Edited (Wed 14 Jul 06:21)
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Wed 14 Jul 07:42

Quote:

Tenruh, Wed 14 Jul 06:19

Quote:

red-star-par, Wed 14 Jul 00:13

I agree SIF, some of the stuff Tenruh posts is the sort of thing I have seen increasingly from some so-called independence supporters. I think parts of the movement have been infiltrated by agitators who are trying to derail everything. I was almost distracted by them myself


The biggest agitator to the independence movement is the SNP Leader and her husband.
Try paying attention and you'll see she has completely destroyed the independence movement,as confirmed by your personal attack on myself


You realise the complaint was raised by Sean Clerkin?
He is not and never has been a member of the SNP.
He is well known to most people as he was in Scottish Resistance which he has been thrown out of.
Scottish Resistance are the clowns who protest outside Tunnocks, have a banner saying England out of Scotland (it has been pointed out to them multiple times that this can be seen as racist but they still insist on carrying it)
The guy that got kicked out of the group that are complete nutjobs for being too much of a nut job.

My branch had a meeting last week and the subject of this ring-fence money came up.
The treasurer went into great detail about it.
The party have well in excess of £1m in their bank account. So the money is there.
Political parties are not permitted to have multiple bank accounts at national level for reasons of transparency around donars. So the money could not be ring-fenced in a separate account.

I would agree that there should be more transparency around the finances, especially regarding this money. It is however my firm belief that there has not been any fraud.
I'm happy for there to be an investigation by the police to put this to bed.
I fear however the folk like you who are out to sabotage any chance of independence we have will accuse the police of being in Sturgeons pocket though.
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Wed 14 Jul 08:19

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Wed 14 Jul 07:42

Quote:

Tenruh, Wed 14 Jul 06:19

Quote:

red-star-par, Wed 14 Jul 00:13

I agree SIF, some of the stuff Tenruh posts is the sort of thing I have seen increasingly from some so-called independence supporters. I think parts of the movement have been infiltrated by agitators who are trying to derail everything. I was almost distracted by them myself


The biggest agitator to the independence movement is the SNP Leader and her husband.
Try paying attention and you'll see she has completely destroyed the independence movement,as confirmed by your personal attack on myself


You realise the complaint was raised by Sean Clerkin?
He is not and never has been a member of the SNP.
He is well known to most people as he was in Scottish Resistance which he has been thrown out of.
Scottish Resistance are the clowns who protest outside Tunnocks, have a banner saying England out of Scotland (it has been pointed out to them multiple times that this can be seen as racist but they still insist on carrying it)
The guy that got kicked out of the group that are complete nutjobs for being too much of a nut job.

My branch had a meeting last week and the subject of this ring-fence money came up.
The treasurer went into great detail about it.
The party have well in excess of £1m in their bank account. So the money is there.
Political parties are not permitted to have multiple bank accounts at national level for reasons of transparency around donars. So the money could not be ring-fenced in a separate account.

I would agree that there should be more transparency around the finances, especially regarding this money. It is however my firm belief that there has not been any fraud.
I'm happy for there to be an investigation by the police to put this to bed.
I fear however the folk like you who are out to sabotage any chance of independence we have will accuse the police of being in Sturgeons pocket though.


Anyone is at liberty to report anything which they think is breaking the law,and only then after initial enquiries do the Police along with the prosecution services decide as in this case proceed to advance it.

The fundraiser was described as Ringfenced solely for the Indy2 campaign and many contributed who were not members of the SNP.

Doesn't matter how much money is in the accounts now, the account showed in 2019 there was less than £95,000.


Why was Douglas Chapman and 3 members of the finance Committee denied access to the accounts and forced to resign within 6 months of being elected the SNP treasurer?

Open your eyes the summer convention is online so will the Autumn one also, your not even getting a say now. It will be controlled by the chairman so don't waste your branch time discussing motion's.
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 14 Jul 08:23

Chapman, Cherry etc are likely defectors.
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Wed 14 Jul 09:44

Quote:

jake89, Wed 14 Jul 08:23

Chapman, Cherry etc are likely defectors.


Why would they defect..doesn't make sense that comment.

I think they resigned from the SNP NEC for various reasons which includes being a member held them personally libel along with the other members if the organisation went into liquidisation, along with the NEC losing member control to the Murells .

Post Edited (Wed 14 Jul 09:45)
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Wed 14 Jul 20:06

Three members of the Finance Committee resigned, saying they were denied access to financial information which prevented them from fulfilling their obligations.

The Treasurer resigned, saying he was denied access to financial information which prevented him from fulfilling his obligations.

The party’s accounts were published, showing that the cash resources of the party fell well below the “ringfenced” money.

These people want to run an independent Scotland. They couldn’t run a bath.

My dog eats meat
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 14 Jul 20:30

Quote:

Tenruh, Wed 14 Jul 09:44

Quote:

jake89, Wed 14 Jul 08:23

Chapman, Cherry etc are likely defectors.


Why would they defect..doesn't make sense that comment.

I think they resigned from the SNP NEC for various reasons which includes being a member held them personally libel along with the other members if the organisation went into liquidisation, along with the NEC losing member control to the Murells .


Neither are fans of Sturgeon. Just playing devil's advocate here.
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 15 Jul 06:41

Just to be clear Malcolm, these people want to gain independence for Scotland. At which time (and every four out five years afterwards) we the voters will decide who runs the country…

SNP are a means to an end

Post Edited (Thu 15 Jul 08:06)
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Fri 16 Jul 13:08

Quote:

DBP, Thu 15 Jul 06:41

Just to be clear Malcolm, these people want to gain independence for Scotland. At which time (and every four out five years afterwards) we the voters will decide who runs the country…

SNP are a means to an end

Post Edited (Thu 15 Jul 08:06)


That’s correct. Nevertheless, these people do want to be the ones running an independent Scotland. I suspect none of them would retire.

My dog eats meat
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Fri 16 Jul 13:52

https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/07/16/why-did-this-happen/

The independence movement is split right down the middle and the above article explains why....Waken up Scotland

Post Edited (Fri 16 Jul 13:53)
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 16 Jul 15:37

Doesn`t every `blogger` have an agenda?

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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Fri 16 Jul 18:04

Yeah but as it stands SNP are our only plausible vehicle for securing independence…

After that, all they can do is ask, and we are free to choose who we like

Post Edited (Fri 16 Jul 18:05)
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 16 Jul 18:51

Nicola Sturgeon filled cabinet posts with......... females!!!! What are they doing being involved in politics!
What a load of tosh that article was.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Fri 16 Jul 20:11

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Fri 16 Jul 18:51

Nicola Sturgeon filled cabinet posts with......... females!!!! What are they doing being involved in politics!
What a load of tosh that article was.


Just another independence supporter with a different viewpoint from you. Where do you both differ?
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Fri 16 Jul 20:14

Quote:

DBP, Fri 16 Jul 18:04

Yeah but as it stands SNP are our only plausible vehicle for securing independence…

After that, all they can do is ask, and we are free to choose who we like


Unfortunately I think you are correct.
When do you think it will happen?
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 16 Jul 20:42

It`s not about a different viewpoint as per say. It`s the spin this blogger puts on things. He seems to take umbrage with Sturgeon filling her cabinet position with a high percentage of females despite the fact that females make up slightly more than half of the population.
Presumably he thinks Derek Mackay was a better choice than Kate Forbes as finance secretary as he was male.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Fri 16 Jul 21:17

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Fri 16 Jul 20:42

It`s not about a different viewpoint as per say. It`s the spin this blogger puts on things. He seems to take umbrage with Sturgeon filling her cabinet position with a high percentage of females despite the fact that females make up slightly more than half of the population.
Presumably he thinks Derek Mackay was a better choice than Kate Forbes as finance secretary as he was male.


Obviously wee Nic thought Derek was a better choice ?

Any updates on Patrick Grady
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 16 Jul 22:01

No heard anything about Grady since he was accused of sexual harassment. Seems to be a theme among male snp members in elected positions doesn`t it? Salmomd, Mackay and Grady.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Fri 16 Jul 22:38

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Fri 16 Jul 22:01

No heard anything about Grady since he was accused of sexual harassment. Seems to be a theme among male snp members in elected positions doesn`t it? Salmomd, Mackay and Grady.


What elected position was Salmond in when they came for him?

Post Edited (Fri 16 Jul 22:48)
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 16 Jul 23:05

None, he`d already been kicked out by the voters by then. However his misdeeds happened while he was Scotland`s most powerful politician.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Fri 16 Jul 23:45

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Fri 16 Jul 23:05

None, he`d already been kicked out by the voters by then. However his misdeeds happened while he was Scotland`s most powerful politician.


None, so you made it up ?

Not that it's the first time it's happened to Salmond.

Tick Tock

Post Edited (Fri 16 Jul 23:58)
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 17 Jul 00:09

Made what up? Salmond`s inappropriate conduct happened when he held elected office. That`s a fact.
You shouldn`t wrap yourself up in Salmond so much Tenruh. He was and is a flawed character. He wasn`t the independence movement as much as liked to think it was all about him.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sat 17 Jul 06:45

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sat 17 Jul 00:09

Made what up? Salmond`s inappropriate conduct happened when he held elected office. That`s a fact.
You shouldn`t wrap yourself up in Salmond so much Tenruh. He was and is a flawed character. He wasn`t the independence movement as much as liked to think it was all about him.


Think if you look back you'll see it wasn't me who brought Salmond into the discussion but
You.

Keep in mind it's not just Salmond who's a devisive individual but Sturgeon also.

Post Edited (Sat 17 Jul 07:03)
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Tue 20 Jul 15:46

There seems to be more than a whiff of “wheesht for Indy” going on here.

Sadindiefreak – I would ask the treasurer of your local party to point to the money in the accounts, given the last set of published accounts shows less than £100k in the bank, and as far as I am aware there appear to be difficulties in getting the latest set prepared.

LPF - What is the difference between “ear-marked” and “ring-fenced”?

It seems clear that the so-called ringfenced (or earmarked) monies have been spent and the SNP is coming up with a host of feeble excuses and deflections. It looks like a scam to me, and in normal times in a normal party, I would have expected resignations or sackings at the very top.

Obviously there is a problem with having the CEO and Party Leader as a married couple, and it is at times like these it becomes more apparent.

With regard to the cabinet, I think it is a fair charge that NS is prioritising friendship and gender balance over competence, although the blogger may be seeking to imply a different point.

Glad you got some of your money back, tenruh.

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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 20 Jul 16:30

Why not wait and see what the outcome of the police investigation is before slinging mud around?

If NS is favouring friendship and gender balance over competence in her Cabinet appointments she must have been taking lessons from Boris Johnson. In which devolved areas is the Westminster government outperforming the Scottish government by the way? They never seem to come under scrutiny to the same extent for some reason.

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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 20 Jul 22:46

Earmarked is an allocation for spending that you can fulfill anytime whereas ring fenced is properly segregated in the same way solicitors would have to keep client money segregated.

Sorry to add by segregated I don't necessarily mean in a different bank account as that doesn't seem to be the standard in this case but it would come with an expectation that the money wouldn't be used for anything other than the Indy campaign.

Post Edited (Tue 20 Jul 23:01)
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 20 Jul 22:55

So when will the investigation conclude?
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 20 Jul 23:26

Ask the polis! How is anyone else supposed to know?

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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Sat 24 Jul 20:05

“It seems clear that the so-called ringfenced (or earmarked) monies have been spent and the SNP is coming up with a host of feeble excuses and deflections. It looks like a scam to me, and in normal times in a normal party, I would have expected resignations or sackings at the very top.”

Charles Ponzi?

My dog eats meat
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sun 25 Jul 08:32

Quote:

Malcolm Canmore, Sat 24 Jul 20:05

“It seems clear that the so-called ringfenced (or earmarked) monies have been spent and the SNP is coming up with a host of feeble excuses and deflections. It looks like a scam to me, and in normal times in a normal party, I would have expected resignations or sackings at the very top

1 out of 10 for effort...

Don't think you could compare what goes on in Scotland with the corruption in England.
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 25 Jul 10:24

Why can`t political parties stick to old-style, tried and tested corruption - you give us some money and we`ll do you a favour?

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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Sun 25 Jul 16:47

Quote:

Tenruh, Sun 25 Jul 08:32

Quote:

Malcolm Canmore, Sat 24 Jul 20:05

“It seems clear that the so-called ringfenced (or earmarked) monies have been spent and the SNP is coming up with a host of feeble excuses and deflections. It looks like a scam to me, and in normal times in a normal party, I would have expected resignations or sackings at the very top

1 out of 10 for effort...

Don't think you could compare what goes on in Scotland with the corruption in England.


This is pathetic whitabooterry. Are you seriously suggesting this doesn’t matter because some people believe that even worse is going on elsewhere?

My dog eats meat

Post Edited (Sun 25 Jul 16:48)
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sun 25 Jul 17:30

Quote:

Malcolm Canmore, Sun 25 Jul 16:47

Quote:

Tenruh, Sun 25 Jul 08:32

Quote:

Malcolm Canmore, Sat 24 Jul 20:05

“It seems clear that the so-called ringfenced (or earmarked) monies have been spent and the SNP is coming up with a host of feeble excuses and deflections. It looks like a scam to me, and in normal times in a normal party, I would have expected resignations or sackings at the very top

1 out of 10 for effort...

Don't think you could compare what goes on in Scotland with the corruption in England.


This is pathetic whitabooterry. Are you seriously suggesting this doesn’t matter because some people believe that even worse is going on elsewhere?


What's going on here is an ongoing Police investigation, no individual has been found guilty of wrongdoing.
What's happening in the English Parliament is out and out tory corruption, no whitabooterry about it.
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 Re: SNP Police Fraud Probe
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 25 Jul 17:41

Well said, Tenruh. Corruption at Westminster just seems to be accepted as the norm. Even if ministers or certain practices are investigated and queried the findings are just dismissed. `Nothing to see here; please move on.`

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