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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 12 Sep 17:08
There are some interesting comments from readers at the foot of the article if you scroll down to them and most aren`t complimentary to the writer. Basically they argue that historically Scotland have flourished at international level when their home league has been relatively weak because the best players have been good enough to attract bids from England, and now from the Continent, which have caused them to leave. Lack of finance, mainly due to poor TV deals, also means Scottish clubs can`t compete with clubs from other leagues for the best Scottish players.
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Topic Originator: DunPar
Date: Tue 12 Sep 17:33
We don`t have the money to keep players at Scottish clubs. Rangers and Celtic can`t keep hold of their best youth prospects (e.g. Gilmour and Doak). We need to convince the Scandic and the Low country leagues (and Ireland and possibly Portugal) to join us in an Atlantic League that might allow Rangers, Celtic, Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen to have a chance of bringing in some meaningful TV money and pay more competitive salaries (yeah, still wont be able to match the EPL.......). We`re a wee country of 5.5 million people. If we joined forces in an Atlantic League then our bigger teams could share in the TV money that a combined population of 60-70 million might bring in ...............I`m sure it would be far more than we can alone.........maybe if there were three leagues of 16, DAFC could get a seat at the table ?
Scotland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal, Ireland ? Hell, let the Luxembourgers and the Icelanders in (if they can get through the qualifying cup) !!
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Topic Originator: DunPar
Date: Tue 12 Sep 17:37
To add to the above, more people per capita watch football in Scotland than any other nation in Europe, yet we seem to have the shittiest TV and sponsorship deals in Europe.
TV deals (GBP per season) in Europe for football leagues
EPL - 1.6bn
Bundesliga - 1.08bn
La Liga - 1bn
Portugal - 163m
Netherlands - 90m
Belgium - 89m
Norway - 55m
Sweden - 40m
Denmark - 37m
Scotland - 25m
Add them all (the "Atlantic Leagues") together and it`s just about halfway to La Liga !
Post Edited (Tue 12 Sep 17:47)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 12 Sep 18:02
Even kicking out the OF wouldn`t make Scottish football attractive as most of the subscribers will be fans of the ugly sisters.
The TV deal is bloody awful but presumably makes little profit or there would be more competition. SPL TV was suggested a few years ago but went nowhere, presumably because the money simply wasn`t there.
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Topic Originator: mikey_boy
Date: Tue 12 Sep 22:16
Norway has a similar population to Scotland so it’s absolutely mad that they are generating double in terms of tv revenue. Pretty sure Scottish football has a bigger global audience than Norwegian games.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Tue 12 Sep 23:40
Scotland are doing well because our players are “abroad”…..you want you best players playing at the top level at the Scottish leagues arent close to that currently
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Topic Originator: DulochConvert
Date: Wed 13 Sep 01:34
You all forget Scotland pays 13.8% of all sky subscriptions, so by that we pay already a lot into the pot!
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Wed 13 Sep 18:41
Maybe simplistic - but I reckon we have too many senior clubs for the available potential audience.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Thu 14 Sep 06:15
Quote:
veteraneastender, Wed 13 Sept 18:41
Maybe simplistic - but I reckon we have too many senior clubs for the available potential audience.
I have to agree with the first part of your post, VEE - that`s straight from the Ibrox school of logic. 😀 You may remember Rangers came to the same conclusion as you in the mid-60s.
There were too many senior clubs in Scotland. 37 in two divisions of 18 and 19. The solution? Cull 5 clubs to leave two divisions of 16. Problem solved. 😀
They even identified the 5 clubs that they believed should be put down. I think Berwick Rangers was one of them. Unluckily for Rangers, their proposal failed and Berwick exacted their revenge in January `67 in one of the most famous SC upsets of all time....
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Thu 14 Sep 10:21
Quote:
veteraneastender, Thu 14 Sep 09:22
I mind the old Div.2 of the 60`s well GG - the odd number of clubs was an absurdity - one team in rota would have a Saturday free from a league game.
Here are the details of the 5 clubs the Ibrox mafia wanted to ditch.
https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/rangers/latest-rangers-news/rangers-newco-1964-bid-to-eject-minnows-could-come-back-to-haunt-club-2479294
Three of them have since fallen from the regular leagues.
It is interesting VEE about the qualification for Rangers decision at the time about smallest gate receipts. So all about revenue as opposed to profitability. Seems Rangers (then) and The Rangers (now) maybe haven’t grasped that clubs may be solvent even with small revenue.
Highly interesting insight to how certain clubs perceive smaller clubs and maybe still do.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Fri 15 Sep 09:34
Back in that era the Scottish League had a prescribed formula to guarantee the visiting club a fixed "gate income" - the home team in Div. 1 was obliged to pay a minimum of £500, in Div. 2 it was £150.
The visitors were entitled to their extra share of the attendance revenue if that was above these figures.
Clubs in the lower tier (from memory) often had decent(ish) crowds, especially where a local derby was involved.
Alloa, for example, could get between 3-4 thousand on a good day.
Mind you the entrance charges in those days were almost next to nothing compared to more modern times.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Tue 19 Sep 13:20
Celtic announce a pre tax profit of £40.7 million for Yr ending 30th June 2023.
How can clubs compete against that?
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Topic Originator: Paralex
Date: Tue 19 Sep 17:55
Back in that era, world superstars like Jim Baxter and Jimmy Johnstone were paid so poorly in comparison, that the former served me up a 🥗 salad in his pub in Paisley Road one lunchtime and the latter was seen brushing sand from my friend`s close, when working as a labourer for a well known Glasgow building contractor. Even the lowest level stars, in the English Premiership are financially secure for life if they exercise a modicum of common sense.
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Topic Originator: Paralytic77
Date: Tue 19 Sep 19:31
I got offered to sign for Rochdale in English 4th league I think back in around 2002 ish for £2000 a week basic plus win bonuses and appearance money on top
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Tue 19 Sep 20:02
"Norway has a similar population to Scotland so it’s absolutely mad that they are generating double in terms of tv revenue. Pretty sure Scottish football has a bigger global audience than Norwegian games."
Pretty sure they broadcast every game live from Thursday night through to Monday at various times. No such thing as a regular Saturday 3pm kick-off.
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Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis
Date: Tue 19 Sep 20:38
They play mostly at 5pm on a Sunday in Norway. Typically, there is a game before then and one after - and one or two on a Saturday.
I think it`s Denmark where everything is more spread out for TV e.g. games at 2pm, 4pm, 6pm and 8pm on a Sunday plus one on a Saturday night, one on a Monday and sometimes even a Friday game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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Topic Originator: ParfectXI
Date: Tue 19 Sep 20:38
Scottish football was killed in the late 80s/90s when prize money, tv money etc all favoured the Ugly Sisters which led to what we have now - the most unbalanced league anywhere. A league where 2 teams can spend on 1 player more than the entire playing budget of the other teams. Then we have the TV coverage - so far there has only been 1 game announced that doesn’t involve either of the OF. That’s hardly going to attract a neutral from say Poland to follow Aberdeen or Hearts, no they’ll follow a team they see regularly, therefore increasing the OFs revenue from the continent.
We saw the bias towards the OF back when Rangers were liquidated, we had a certain Neil Doncaster trying to blackmail the other clubs to let the NEW Rangers to parachute straight into the Premiership, then when that didn’t work they sold all their games TV rights putting them on the TV weekly again with a team that was full of decent Premiership players.
Scottish football will never be attractive when the league is essentially a 2 horse race with the gulf in class between the top 2 and the rest so massive and the powers that be so uninterested in changing
Post Edited (Tue 19 Sep 20:38)
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Topic Originator: ballingrypar
Date: Tue 19 Sep 21:48
agree, 100%
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Topic Originator: Indiapar
Date: Wed 20 Sep 05:51
I believe the Deloitte review of the SPFL had made several recommendations to generate revenue over the next 5 years from approx 29million to 50 million by changing the structure from an administrate focus to a more business focus including marketing the SPFL as one of the most dramatic and passionate in Europe. The fundamental flaw in this as I see it is that it is not. I think if we were right up there in European competitions then it would be different. The recommendations seem very accountancy centric. Important as it is to generate income, I think a more holistic view is needed that considers all aspects of the game including their customers, the fans. To hang your hat on TV rights and good marketing is a risk.
Post Edited (Wed 20 Sep 05:52)
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Wed 20 Sep 06:34
Is Sky the only constant in football TV rights? Except the Beeb and STV (although I am not sure the last time STV did any continuous football coverage)
How many other companies have come and gone and what was Scottish football’s association with each of them in turn.
I am not following football by TV, but does Scottish football sell itself to the highest bidder irrespective of who they are?
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Topic Originator: EastEndTales
Date: Wed 20 Sep 07:06
Quote:
Indiapar, Wed 20 Sept 05:51
I believe the Deloitte review of the SPFL had made several recommendations to generate revenue over the next 5 years from approx 29million to 50 million by changing the structure from an administrate focus to a more business focus including marketing the SPFL as one of the most dramatic and passionate in Europe. The fundamental flaw in this as I see it is that it is not. I think if we were right up there in European competitions then it would be different. The recommendations seem very accountancy centric. Important as it is to generate income, I think a more holistic view is needed that considers all aspects of the game including their customers, the fans. To hang your hat on TV rights and good marketing is a risk.
Doesn`t matter if it is or isn`t, if you keep telling people it is they`ll catch on.
For too long we talk down our own game. If we started talking it up more, all the way from top to bottom, then it would be easier to sell.
As it is, the BBC and most other media outlets don`t give anyone outside our top two barely 2 seconds worth of proper, insightful discussion or coverage.
Whats our chances when it`s like that? Football isn`t a race to monopoly, it relies on competition, the stronger the better.
Ep.11 of East End Tales is out now- Jack de Gier!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/13376303
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 20 Sep 07:39
People who talk down the SPFL leagues clearly don`t pay much attention to the EPL. Most of it is pretty dire. How many.are genuinely excited watching the likes of Bournemouth?
People will watch any old cack if it`s marketed properly. Get the SPFL games on the TV as "real" football. Sell it to the US, Canada, Australia. Yes, promote the OF but get some footage of the many other derbies.
I don`t know who is responsible for "selling" the league to TV companies but they do a crap job of it from what I can see.
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Topic Originator: par-91
Date: Thu 21 Sep 09:52
You watch premier league games and have people standing recording goal celebrations, showing no emotion. You have home fans asking away players for shirts and autographs. You have home fans filming away teams celebrate their goals, that seem to be enjoying the experience.
Scottish football crowds don’t have that kind ‘tourist element’ to anywhere near the same extent as the ‘big’ leagues and I think it results in the crowd being more passionate at games than you see in the ‘big’ games on tv.
Even the Manchester derby, or the north London derby, I don’t think the crowds there are as passionate as we saw last season for the games v Falkirk. I think the club and the results mean more to the majority of match-going fans in this country than down south. Yes, there are still passionate fans in the premier league. But a significant % of crowds seem to be tourists that are just happy to be there, win, lose or draw.
Likewise, players in this country (perhaps outside of the old firm) don’t earn life changing money. They’re battling for new contracts so that they can afford their mortgage payments. They’re playing for their boyhood club, they’re trying to impress scouts to earn a lucrative move that could set their family up for life. The guys who move to Scottish football as a retirement home tend to fail. Regardless of talent/ability, if they’re not passionate enough they just won’t cut it in the Scottish game.
We can’t compete with the Premier League financially, which is why we should be using the passion and the rivalries to market Scottish football. I think we’re still the highest attended league in Europe by % of population, so there’s clearly a real desire and passion for the game in this country and that’s what needs to be used.
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Thu 21 Sep 10:04
I still find it baffling that the championship TV money goes into the big pot and split amongst the leagues instead of split between the teams in the championship who are directly affected by the fixtures moved.
The last time we were in the championship we had games v rovers and Dundee moved to Friday nights. This costs the club a sizable fee when you would imagine the club would have these games earmarked as our big gate games. It`s crazy that teams whose games aren`t affected by this are getting a slice of the pie.
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: Indiapar
Date: Thu 21 Sep 15:07
I suppose my question would be...what is the end game to market scottish football internationally. If it is to generate revenue and income rather than being a sporting spectacle. Fans become customers such that the connection at a local level could be lost. The influence of local supporters could be diminished in favour of decisions at a more global level. Smaller clubs could lose out to the bigger clubs creating greater disparity in the leagues.
Personally I think it is a rocky road to go down and I favour more the path we have chosen to put in the ground work and develop local talent to knit the club into the fabric of the local community
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Topic Originator: DunPar
Date: Sat 23 Sep 09:41
Scottish football is simply not very marketable. Home supports don’t turn up for the old firm visits. What happened to the days when EEP was rammed with 20,000 for Celtic visiting (Eric Ferguson). We seemed to have a lot more excitement (and crowds) back then……..we need to improve standards to get crowds back but I’ll stick to my earlier post……..our bigger clubs will have a better chance if they could generate a bit more income in a bigger league. Not just the Old Firm……..I’m sure Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen could do well if the league structure (eg the Atlantic League) had a second (or third) tier to initially accommodate them.
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Topic Originator: EastEndTales
Date: Sat 23 Sep 12:07
Quote:
DunPar, Sat 23 Sept 09:41
Scottish football is simply not very marketable.
Completely disagree. If done right it`s got bags of potential.
Ep.11 of East End Tales is out now- Jack de Gier!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/13376303
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Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Mon 25 Sep 20:40
Quote:
DunPar, Sat 23 Sept 09:41
Scottish football is simply not very marketable. Home supports don’t turn up for the old firm visits. What happened to the days when EEP was rammed with 20,000 for Celtic visiting (Eric Ferguson). We seemed to have a lot more excitement (and crowds) back then……..we need to improve standards to get crowds back but I’ll stick to my earlier post……..our bigger clubs will have a better chance if they could generate a bit more income in a bigger league. Not just the Old Firm……..I’m sure Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen could do well if the league structure (eg the Atlantic League) had a second (or third) tier to initially accommodate them.
I`m sure Alan Burrows while Motherwell CEO said 20-30% of home supporters don`t turn up for home games v Old Firm because of being on TV and the associated songs behaviour of said fans .
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