|
|
Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Wed 13 Dec 15:02
Would any Pars fan be willing to travel to France with McCrae`s Battalion Trust (MBT) and represent Dunfermline Athletic at the twentieth anniversary of the commemoration cairn in Contalmaison?
McCrae`s Battalion (16th Royal Scots) was "Scotland`s Sporting Battalion" in WW1, containing footballers from several clubs (notably Hearts but also Dunfermline, Hibs, Raith Rovers, Falkirk, East Fife and St Bernard's), as well as athletes from many other sports.
The Battle of the Somme began on 1 July 1916 (the darkest day in British Army history, with 20,000 deaths) and amid the slaughter some men from McCrae`s Battalion reached the village of Contalmaison, the deepest advance into enemy-held territory.
In 2004 a memorial cairn was erected in Contalmaison and on 1 July every year a service is held there, with the villagers welcoming pilgrims to remember the sacrifices on both sides. For the last few years a wreath has been laid there by a supporter of Dunfermline Athletic, and McCrae`s Battalion Trust would very much like this tradition to continue.
The MBT bus leaves Edinburgh on 29 June, returning 4 July - the itinerary for this year`s pilgrimage is HERE. Places fill up rapidly, so if you want to go please contact Jack Alexander ASAP on 07876 106509 or jack@mccraesbattaliontrust.org.uk
Jack can provide prices and available variations if you choose to share hotel or ferry accommodation.
I have been to Contalmaison a few times, and from personal experience the whole MBT trip is hugely enjoyable, deeply moving, always interesting and highly recommended. Send me an email (click on "Stanza" for address) if you want more information about what is involved.
_________________
 Support Dunfermline Athletic Disabled Supporters` Club (DADSC) when you shop online with one of 8000 firms: https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/dadsc[
Post Edited (Wed 13 Dec 20:56)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Wed 13 Dec 19:16
I`ve always wondered why players from Fife clubs would serve in The Royal Scots in WW1 - it is not their traditional recruiting area.
Possible because the individuals concerned lived in the Lothians ?
Alternatively they may have been transferred from other regiments to make up manpower shortages due to the appalling casualty rates as the war progressed ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: The Roy Barry Fan Club
Date: Thu 14 Dec 11:49
I can completely endorse what Stanza says.
This is a tremendous trip for anyone interested in World War One and especially anyone with an interest in the history of Dunfermline Athletic. This year they plan to visit the Thiepval Memorial and there are the names of Davie Izatt and Jimmy Morton of Dunfermline Athletic who were killed together on 1 July 1916. If you have a moment on Saturday, you can see Jimmy Morton`s war medal, death scroll and photograph in uniform in one of the display cases outside the Shop. They were bought by the Heritage Trust last year when offered on eBay.
I have been three times and enjoyed each and every trip. Especially notable is the friendship of the people of Contalmaison, who put on a private hog roast lunch for McCrae`s each year. It is also very good value. I think I paid around £600 this year.
In answer to VEE, although it is absolutely correct to say that Dunfermline was in the recruiting area allocated to the Black Watch, Sir George McCrae was extremely well connected in Dunfermline. Indeed in his younger days, he worked as a draper in Dunfermline , and there met his wife to be, Lizzie Russell, who came from a well-known shop-keeping family. They married in the front-room of the parental home in the New Row in July 1880. It would be a dreadful irony that her nephew, Robert Russell, also of the New Row in Dunfermline would be the first man killed in action when the battalion crossed to France in early 1916. I know one of her great great nephews who used to be a regular contributor to Dot Net and is a season ticket holder.
Not only that, but when McCrae became a very successful draper in Edinburgh, he established a close friendship with William (later Sir William) Robertson of Hay and Robertson, linen manufacturers of Dunfermline. In the years before 1914, Sir William was a leading light in the Liberal Party in Scotland, and it was through his influence that George McCrae obtained a seat in parliament. It is not surprising therefore that McCrae asked for, and got, Bill Robertson, Sir William`s son, to act as adjutant of the battalion. Bill was wounded with McCrae`s when hit in the knee. Bill`s grandson sits just behind me in the south stand, and is noted for his disparaging comments of referees (absolutely correctly in my judgement).
Jack Alexander has this to say on Page 86 of his book on the battalion: "And finally the Dunfermline contribution - around 100 young lads from Sir George`s old haunt, raised by local architect Stewart Kaye, who had already been promised a precious commission." These Dunfermline men served largely in D Company of McCrae`s Battalion (16th Royal Scots) in sufficient numbers for the Dunfermline Press at the time to refer to D Company as `the Dunfermline Company`. 14 Platoon was led by Bob Martin, a linen mill manager from Dunfermline, who rose to be Company Commander. These men were present in large numbers at the raising of the Battalion at the Usher Hall in November 1914.
Post Edited (Thu 14 Dec 11:52)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Thu 14 Dec 18:17
TRBFC, territorial regimental recruiting procedures were never set in absolute tablets of stone,thanks for the explanation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Thu 14 Dec 23:42
Quote:
The Roy Barry Fan Club, Thu 14 Dec 11:49
I can completely endorse what Stanza says.
This is a tremendous trip for anyone interested in World War One and especially anyone with an interest in the history of Dunfermline Athletic............
..............
I have been three times and enjoyed each and every trip. Especially notable is the friendship of the people of Contalmaison, who put on a private hog roast lunch for McCrae`s each year. It is also very good value. I think I paid around £600 this year.
For anyone interested in going I now have a complete list of prices, which range from £545 to £645 depending on the type of ferry cabin and hotel room, and how many people are sharing - superb value for the quality of the tour and the expertise of the MBT guides. Single cabins/rooms are also available - but at a premium.
_________________
Support Dunfermline Athletic Disabled Supporters` Club (DADSC) when you shop online with one of 8000 firms: https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/dadsc[
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: jdafc
Date: Tue 19 Dec 06:09
I have contacted Jack to check on availability for two to travel next year.
Hopefully there will still be spaces for a couple of oldies.
Always a Par
JD
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Tue 9 Jan 18:53
Hi jdafc,
Did you manage to get booked up for the 2024 trip?
_________________
Support Dunfermline Athletic Disabled Supporters` Club (DADSC) when you shop online with one of 8000 firms: https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/dadsc[
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: jdafc
Date: Wed 10 Jan 09:28
Unfortunately not.
I haven`t had a reply to my email yet.
I used the email address for Jack that was provided, I emailed from work but gave my personal email address for a reply so he has two addresses to reach me at.
Pity, as we were keen to go.
Always a Par
JD
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Wed 10 Jan 12:16
Please send me an email or otherwise contact me and I`ll get in touch with Jack - he can be quite tardy sometimes in replying.
_________________
Support Dunfermline Athletic Disabled Supporters` Club (DADSC) when you shop online with one of 8000 firms: https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/dadsc[
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: The Roy Barry Fan Club
Date: Wed 10 Jan 13:12
Hi jdafc
As Stanza says, Jack can be a bit tardy -- so please contact Stanza (his email is in the Stanza details) and he can give you further contact details and a phone number for Jack Alexander -- I have tended to text him in the past. I believe Stanza is also happy to get in touch with Jack on your behalf.
It is a great experience!
Post Edited (Wed 10 Jan 13:15)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Wed 10 Jan 14:27
Did Jeremy Paxman not reference this in his introduction to a 2014 TV series on the Great War? He was speaking on the pitch at Tynecastle and noted that the old stand was also 100 years old, linking it to the centenary of the war.
A memorial to Hearts players who lost their lives stands outside Haymarket
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: The Roy Barry Fan Club
Date: Wed 10 Jan 15:07
I believe that you are quite right about the Paxman documentary.
The War Memorial at Haymarket was built in 1922. The wikipedia entry is as follows:
"In the centre of the crossroads at the heart of Haymarket is a war memorial in the form of a clock tower that was unveiled in 1922.[3] It is principally to commemorate former players of Heart of Midlothian F.C. but also for players from other Scottish clubs, those being Hibernian, Raith Rovers, Dunfermline, East Fife and St Bernard`s, who were also part of McCrae`s Battalion, known as "The footballers` Battalion", who died in World Wars I and II. It was designed by the sculptor Henry Snell Gamley.[4] The memorial was temporarily removed in 2010 to allow construction of the tramway across the road junction. It was replaced in a slightly different position in 2013, in time for the commemoration of the centenary of the outbreak of World War I. The clock was made by James Ritchie & Son, who were clockmakers in Edinburgh.[3]"
In recent years, I have laid a DAFC wreath there on behalf of the Club on Remembrance Sunday , along with Hibs, Raith Rovers, and Falkirk. McCrae`s Battalion was a WWI battalion , being 16th Royal Scots.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Wed 10 Jan 15:07
Parboiled - Quite possibly, Hearts are the club most associated with McCrae`s Battalion, as in a remarkable publicity coup he persuaded the whole first team to sign up, then paraded them on stage at the Usher Hall to encourage others to sign up, before mounting a white horse and leading the crowd down Lothian Road to the recruiting office!
However, players, officials and fans of other clubs (Dunfermline, East Fife, Falkirk, Hibernian, Raith Rovers, St Bernards and many smaller clubs) and indeed representatives of many other sports, joined the 16th Royal Scots, which became known as Scotland`s Sporting Battalion. It is perhaps because of their underlying fitness that they were so successful in the Western Front campaigns - but fitness was no protection against machine gun bullets, and many lost their lives. Lots of players of course joined other army units, but it was the initial action of Hearts players and officials that defused the anti-football movement during WW1.
There`s a summary on the MBT site here, including the Hearts Roll of Honour:
http://www.mccraesbattaliontrust.org.uk/the-sporting-battalion/
_________________
Support Dunfermline Athletic Disabled Supporters` Club (DADSC) when you shop online with one of 8000 firms: https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/dadsc[
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Wed 10 Jan 19:40
Quote:
Stanza, Wed 10 Jan 15:07
Parboiled - Quite possibly, Hearts are the club most associated with McCrae`s Battalion, as in a remarkable publicity coup he persuaded the whole first team to sign up, then paraded them on stage at the Usher Hall to encourage others to sign up, before mounting a white horse and leading the crowd down Lothian Road to the recruiting office!
That is quite a good site. I found this passage interesting-
"Against this background of intimidation and intolerance, professional football, of all things, became the target of an orchestrated campaign of abuse, led by the wealthy London brewery heir, Frederick Charrington. Footballers, said the critics, were shirkers and cowards, content to hide at home while better men risked their lives at the front. Football was a ‘moral scourge’ and the Government should take measures to ‘stop’ it forthwith. This position, as indefensible as most of the makeshift British trenches in France, reflected a narrow pre-war opinion that professional sport was somehow corrupting the spirit of the nation’s youth. A famous cartoon in the satirical magazine, Punch, evoked thoughts of a ‘Greater Game’ – played not for trophies but for honour on the field of battle."
It`s quite a sad tale really. I do wonder if the footballers who signed up to McCrae`s Battalion should really be so celebrated. The found themselves intimidated and shamed by the ruling classes, who had not exerted the political will to find a peaceful solution and didn`t have the intelligence to lead a military campaign that had done anything other than send masses of men to their death.
Against this backdrop of intimidation they allowed themselves to be forced to join up, and paraded as poster boys, encouraging thousands of other local men and young boys to sign up as cannon fodder.
My own Great-grandfather signed up at the age of 17, very quickly got married and left my pregnant great-grandmother alone (probably expecting to be back before the birth), but got his head shot off and died in the mud and blood a few months later.
The survivors didn`t come back to a land fit for heroes, and my great grandmother had to raise a little girl on her own without suitable compensation or support for the loss she had suffered. I can still remember listening to her when she was alone in her room, when she in her late 90s, singing a tearful lament to the love of her life "My Johnny lies over the ocean".
If they had been true heroes, they would have said no, and let the ruling classes fight it out by themselves
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: jdafc
Date: Thu 11 Jan 07:20
Good morning Stanza.
Jack has been in touch at last. He sent his initial reply to the wrong JD. Better late than never I suppose, as I was beginning to think that it wasn`t to be.
He has told me that the usual gents who place the DAFC wreath are unable to attend this year so I could be placing it on behalf of the club. Happy to do that.
I`m sure all the details will be ironed out prior to departure.
Looking forward to it now.
Always a Par
JD
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Thu 11 Jan 13:49
Thank you JD, that`s great that you`re getting things sorted with Jack.
I`ve no way of getting in touch with you, so could you please drop me an email (click on "Stanza" for address) and we can work out details for the wreath etc.
You`ll find the whole experience very moving (and enjoyable).
_________________
Support Dunfermline Athletic Disabled Supporters` Club (DADSC) when you shop online with one of 8000 firms: https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/dadsc[
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Thu 11 Jan 16:29
Regarding that lovely old Archibald Leitch stand I mentioned earlier..when it was demolished to pave the way for completion of yet another utterly soulless stadium fans were invited to bid for various bits and bobs that were salvaged.
One was delighted to become the proud owner of one of the turnstiles which had been in use all those years. I think he used it as a back garden gate, though whether he charged his missus 2/6d to hang the washing out …
|
|
|
|
|
|
