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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sun 20 Oct 14:04
Is the worm finally turning?š¤š²šš¤
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 20 Oct 14:47
No Celtic will still win the league and probably by quite a significant margin. Aberdeen though could possibly sneak into second place if the stars align correctly between now and May.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Sun 20 Oct 15:17
Rangers fans complaining about 3 stands being half empty , when they could be full of their fans, maybe less away fans increases the home teams chances of getting a result.
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Topic Originator: maradona86
Date: Sun 20 Oct 16:47
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Sun 20 Oct 14:04
Is the worm finally turning?š¤š²šš¤
2 cheeks of the same erse
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Sun 20 Oct 16:47
Quote:
saltonsgonagetu, Sun 20 Oct 15:17
Rangers fans complaining about 3 stands being half empty , when they could be full of their fans, maybe less away fans increases the home teams chances of getting a result.
It absolutely does increase their chances.
I remember even feeling intimidated at EEP when we allowed their fans to infiltrate most of our ground including the home end and NW stand.
Sometimes if you have ambition, stop thinking of the pounds missing in the coffers and think about getting it up the OF
Zwei Pints Bier und ein PƤckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 20 Oct 16:50
Rangers š
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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Sun 20 Oct 17:39
Quote:
AdamAntsParsStripe, Sun 20 Oct 16:47
Quote:
saltonsgonagetu, Sun 20 Oct 15:17
Rangers fans complaining about 3 stands being half empty , when they could be full of their fans, maybe less away fans increases the home teams chances of getting a result.
It absolutely does increase their chances.
I remember even feeling intimidated at EEP when we allowed their fans to infiltrate most of our ground including the home end and NW stand.
Sometimes if you have ambition, stop thinking of the pounds missing in the coffers and think about getting it up the OF
Yip, this!
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Topic Originator: cfad
Date: Sun 20 Oct 17:50
Celtic will still walk the league but Aberdeen will split them this year
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 20 Oct 20:23
Quote:
AdamAntsParsStripe, Sun 20 Oct 16:47
Quote:
saltonsgonagetu, Sun 20 Oct 15:17
Rangers fans complaining about 3 stands being half empty , when they could be full of their fans, maybe less away fans increases the home teams chances of getting a result.
It absolutely does increase their chances.
I remember even feeling intimidated at EEP when we allowed their fans to infiltrate most of our ground including the home end and NW stand.
Sometimes if you have ambition, stop thinking of the pounds missing in the coffers and think about getting it up the OF
That was ridiculous we gave them that much.
Iām sure I seen something somewhere that since St Mirren decided to restrict their numbers (they are still getting a full stand btw) that the overall numbers at each match against the OF were up and that their results were slightly improved
COYP
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Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford
Date: Sun 20 Oct 21:31
Yep it was a horrible, horrible feeling seeing the old firm in the NW stand in the Yorkston/Masterton era. Good job we put that extra revenue to good use huh!!
You`re correct about St Mirren. Results and attendances improved.
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Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis
Date: Mon 21 Oct 09:02
Said it a while ago, if/when we get back to the Premier League, I`d give them 500 seats in the Cowden end - 250 in sections A and E - and the police and stewards in between. If they kicked off, I`d reduce it the next time.
Still remember last League game of 2004, just before the cup final, Rangers fans invade the pitch (after a sh*t season), security do nothing other than line the home fans to make sure none of us do the same.
F*** that happening ever again.
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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Mon 21 Oct 09:42
Little chance of hosting them in the league for the foreseeable future - but what if either were drawn in the cup at EEP ?
Would you expect the club to restrict visiting fans as suggested - considering DAFC have barely got two pennies to rub together ?
I doubt the beancounters on the board would consider that for a nano second.
Post Edited (Mon 21 Oct 09:43)
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Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis
Date: Mon 21 Oct 11:20
`If/when we get back to the Premier League` was your main clue.
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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Mon 21 Oct 12:08
If we do draw them in the cup, I would probably expect the club to give them the cowden end and the north east stand.
Main, Norrie and North west for home fans
COYP
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Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford
Date: Mon 21 Oct 13:12
Quote:
NMCmassive, Mon 21 Oct 12:08
If we do draw them in the cup, I would probably expect the club to give them the cowden end and the north east stand.
Main, Norrie and North west for home fans
Yep, they`d get that and the south east.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Mon 21 Oct 13:30
Quote:
DA-go Par Adonis, Mon 21 Oct 11:20
`If/when we get back to the Premier League` was your main clue.
My response was appropriate to that.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Mon 21 Oct 13:42
Quote:
Rusty Shackleford, Mon 21 Oct 13:12
Quote:
NMCmassive, Mon 21 Oct 12:08
If we do draw them in the cup, I would probably expect the club to give them the cowden end and the north east stand.
Main, Norrie and North west for home fans
Yep, they`d get that and the south east.
See thatās where Iād draw the line, I wouldnāt give them the South east. Iād open it for home fans - or at least hold it in reserve for home fans.
Imagine playing for the in the home team and seeing the away fans in 3 stands. Puts you on the back foot instantly. The likelihood is weād get beat but I donāt see the point in turning a home fixture into an away fixture just for a potential extra few thousand. 4,500/5000 seats in the east and north east is more than enough in an 11,000 capacity stadium for an away team.
COYP
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Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis
Date: Mon 21 Oct 14:23
Quote:
veteraneastender, Mon 21 Oct 13:30
Quote:
DA-go Par Adonis, Mon 21 Oct 11:20
`If/when we get back to the Premier League` was your main clue.
My response was appropriate to that.
Not really, you brought in the possibility of us drawing them in the cup in our current predicament - which was nothing to do with the policy I was talking about.
You then seemed to answer the question yourself by saying the current board wouldn't entertain it.
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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
Post Edited (Mon 21 Oct 14:24)
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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Mon 21 Oct 15:08
Quote:
DA-go Par Adonis, Mon 21 Oct 09:02
Said it a while ago, if/when we get back to the Premier League, I`d give them 500 seats in the Cowden end - 250 in sections A and E - and the police and stewards in between. If they kicked off, I`d reduce it the next time.
Still remember last League game of 2004, just before the cup final, Rangers fans invade the pitch (after a sh*t season), security do nothing other than line the home fans to make sure none of us do the same.
F*** that happening ever again.
Remember that day well, and was absolutely raging at the way the club treated us rather than them, they got as far as the tunnel as well.
Personally, thatās what I would do, good suggestionā¦ā¦have faith, weāll be back there one day!
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Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford
Date: Mon 21 Oct 15:10
Quote:
NMCmassive, Mon 21 Oct 13:42
Quote:
Rusty Shackleford, Mon 21 Oct 13:12
Quote:
NMCmassive, Mon 21 Oct 12:08
If we do draw them in the cup, I would probably expect the club to give them the cowden end and the north east stand.
Main, Norrie and North west for home fans
Yep, they`d get that and the south east.
See thatās where Iād draw the line, I wouldnāt give them the South east. Iād open it for home fans - or at least hold it in reserve for home fans.
Imagine playing for the in the home team and seeing the away fans in 3 stands. Puts you on the back foot instantly. The likelihood is weād get beat but I donāt see the point in turning a home fixture into an away fixture just for a potential extra few thousand. 4,500/5000 seats in the east and north east is more than enough in an 11,000 capacity stadium for an away team.
Me neither but that`s what I think would happen.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Mon 21 Oct 15:27
"Not really, you brought in the possibility of us drawing them in the cup in our current predicament - which was nothing to do with the policy I was talking about.
You then seemed to answer the question yourself by saying the current board wouldn`t entertain it."
I just don`t follow the distinction between a league game or a cup tie in terms of potential attendance.
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Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis
Date: Mon 21 Oct 15:55
It`s because I wouldn`t be trying to maximise the overall attendance in a league match against either of the former Old Firm - if the club found itself in the top division.
I think that policy ultimately costs a provincial club like ours.
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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Mon 21 Oct 16:24
Quote:
veteraneastender, Mon 21 Oct 15:27
"Not really, you brought in the possibility of us drawing them in the cup in our current predicament - which was nothing to do with the policy I was talking about.
You then seemed to answer the question yourself by saying the current board wouldn`t entertain it."
I just don`t follow the distinction between a league game or a cup tie in terms of potential attendance.
Iām with you VEE. It would need to be a one size fits all approach for league and cup.
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Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis
Date: Mon 21 Oct 16:50
If we were in the Premier League, I`d do the same in cup games.
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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Mon 21 Oct 17:26
Screw the money - if we get back to the top flight give them either the East or the North East and thats it. Too long have these clubs ruled the roost and brought their vitriol and bile to other grounds. If we are the family club we claim to be we should do everything we can to minimise bigotry within our ground.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 21 Oct 18:01
The vast majority of club owners do not follow the logic of their fans, and perhaps it`s just as well. They will normally want to maximise their income from every home game played, so that means giving more seats to clubs with larger travelling support. š
Unpalatable though that may be to most of us, it makes good financial sense. Many Pars fans will remember seeing both the South Stand and the Norrie with plenty of empty seats when we have hosted the OF. Some have even posted on here that they refuse to attend these games on a point of principle.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis
Date: Mon 21 Oct 19:34
It might not make financial sense in the longer term.
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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Mon 21 Oct 19:55
Iām caught in 2 minds really, I hate seeing Old Firm fans being given home ends by the clubsā¦.but I hate having Old Firm fans in seats in the home ends because itās the only way they could get a ticket. Iām sure most of us have witnessed this, sitting watching a game in your normal seat or whatever, and surrounded by little pockets of them or seeing folk jump up to celebrate when they score.
It is a double edged sword for clubs and I do get it, ultimately they are a business and fans are consumers, whether we like it or not.
I remember Jim Leishman once saying (at a fan event) āI would rather see Dunfermline fans in Dunfermline seats, but we canāt attract enough Dunfermline fans into those seatsā. I think thatās the harsh reality and the point that needs to be addressed, but sadly itās not an easy fix or we would have got there by now.
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Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford
Date: Mon 21 Oct 20:06
Quote:
DA-go Par Adonis, Mon 21 Oct 19:34
It might not make financial sense in the longer term.
Plus, I`m not sure we should be looking at football owners as a model of profitability. St Mirren should be applauded for having the courage to try something different and follow through with it.
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Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis
Date: Mon 21 Oct 20:15
There`s 3,000 season ticket holders - probably more if we got promoted. Just limit the sale of additional tickets to season ticket holders.
There won`t be too many Pars supporters who want to go, don`t have a season ticket and do not know a single person who has one.
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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Mon 21 Oct 21:23
St Mirren crowds versus the Old Firm, are up since they cut their allocation .
I`m sure Alan Burrows said when at Motherwell 30-40% of season ticket holders did not turn up for Old Firm games , not that you will find these stats in the Scottish media .
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 22 Oct 07:45
Quote:
saltonsgonagetu, Mon 21 Oct 21:23
St Mirren crowds versus the Old Firm, are up since they cut their allocation .
I`m sure Alan Burrows said when at Motherwell 30-40% of season ticket holders did not turn up for Old Firm games , not that you will find these stats in the Scottish media .
That`s quite a claim from both Alan Burrows and St Mirren. I`ve no reason to doubt either, but find both quite fascinating.
Let`s take Motherwell first. Why would so many ST holders stay away for their home games v the OF? Was it because they feared the almost inevitable tanking, crowd trouble or the rancid atmosphere complete with sectarian singing?
And why are St Mirren fans now turning up in increasing numbers? Is it really just down to the prospect of having less away fans in the stadium? Is it not more likely that it`s because their team is now more resilient and competing than that of a few seasons ago?
Arguably, the last time the Pars had a competitive team was under the two Jimmies, at the beginning of the century. As I recall, we struggled to bring in much more than 5/6 thousand home fans in most games and never managed to sell out even when Rangers or Celtic were in town. Of course, that was probably down to those games being shown live on the BBC on a Sunday pm.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford
Date: Tue 22 Oct 09:02
Even lower than that GG. Some of the attendances during the Jimmies era were miserable and I`d love to discuss it at length on here one day.
Something that really sticks in the memory for me is Motherwell at home a few days after beating Caley in the Scottish Cup semi. There`s no doubt that this was the absolute peak point of DAFC in the last 35 years or so. Qualifying for Europe guaranteed, sitting 4th in the SPL and a cup final to look forward to. Skerla, Brewster, Crawford et al in the team.
The crowd that day? 4,290.
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Topic Originator: parsfan
Date: Tue 22 Oct 09:13
Quote:
saltonsgonagetu, Mon 21 Oct 21:23
St Mirren crowds versus the Old Firm, are up since they cut their allocation .
I`m sure Alan Burrows said when at Motherwell 30-40% of season ticket holders did not turn up for Old Firm games , not that you will find these stats in the Scottish media .
It sounds like for St Mirren they`re trying to imply more home fans are going because there`s less away fans. It could just mean that there`s more away fans in the home end. Couple that with the tendency these days to inflate the attendance figures by including people who aren`t there and there could potentially be less home fans in the ground than normal. They just have the stats to prove the opposite.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Tue 22 Oct 09:23
Back in the successful era of the 1960s average crowd for a league game was 5-6 thousand.
Generally only visits from the Glasgow and Edinburgh teams with their travelling support would result in a bigger attendance.
BR used to run special trains for Hibs and Hearts fans which were well used.
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Tue 22 Oct 11:25
I look back on that two Jimmies era with a mixture of joy and sadness.
Joy because that team was fantastic to watch and genuinely the 3rd/4th best team in Scotland, playing some champagne football at times.
Sadness, because that`s probably the best Pars team I`ll ever see. At the start I think yorkston/Masterton`s intentions were good...invest in the team and hope the bigger crowds would follow; almost `build it and they will come` field of dreams stuff. The crowds however never materialised, the investment never came back, which precipitated an awful cycle of decline which Masterton and Yorkston were ill-equipped (I`m feeling kind today) to manage.
It`s sobering to think that that`s the geunine `ceiling` for the Pars - we were punching above our weight (having spent money we didn`t have), and still the crowds wouldn`t move...if I were a prospective investor in the Pars, I`d be looking back on that era and wonder exactly what I would be investing in.
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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Tue 22 Oct 13:44
Quote:
Rusty Shackleford, Tue 22 Oct 09:02
Even lower than that GG. Some of the attendances during the Jimmies era were miserable and I`d love to discuss it at length on here one day.
That would be a good discussion but sadly itās in the past and despite the club being excellent on the park, I donāt remember us really getting into the community in any way. HOWEVERā¦.i can accept that I might be wrong on that one, I spent that whole period in the Royal Navy and travelling up from Portsmouth pretty much every week to watch games, and wasnāt really living in the area at the time.
Quote:
Bandy, Tue 22 Oct 11:25
I look back on that two Jimmies era with a mixture of joy and sadness.
Joy because that team was fantastic to watch and genuinely the 3rd/4th best team in Scotland, playing some champagne football at times.
Sadness, because that`s probably the best Pars team I`ll ever see. At the start I think yorkston/Masterton`s intentions were good...invest in the team and hope the bigger crowds would follow; almost `build it and they will come` field of dreams stuff. The crowds however never materialised, the investment never came back, which precipitated an awful cycle of decline which Masterton and Yorkston were ill-equipped (I`m feeling kind today) to manage.
It`s sobering to think that that`s the geunine `ceiling` for the Pars - we were punching above our weight (having spent money we didn`t have), and still the crowds wouldn`t move...if I were a prospective investor in the Pars, I`d be looking back on that era and wonder exactly what I would be investing in.
This is spot on
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Tue 22 Oct 15:07
I agree with that regarding the Masterton era, that was the best it could be for us, financially doping to the hilt, international players, signing the captain of Aberdeen on better wages than they could afford, cup finals, genuinely looking like a contender for being the best of the rest outwith the Old Firm, European football and still we were getting crowds of around 5,000.
Pretty much shows the German investors had it spot it on with trying to grow a community club culture and team based on a thriving Academy. Pity they couldn`t engage the fans to bring them along on that journey and the fans couldn`t engage their brains to look outside the box
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Tue 22 Oct 16:33
Quote:
red-star-par, Tue 22 Oct 15:07
I agree with that regarding the Masterton era, that was the best it could be for us, financially doping to the hilt, international players, signing the captain of Aberdeen on better wages than they could afford, cup finals, genuinely looking like a contender for being the best of the rest outwith the Old Firm, European football and still we were getting crowds of around 5,000.
Pretty much shows the German investors had it spot it on with trying to grow a community club culture and team based on a thriving Academy. Pity they couldn`t engage the fans to bring them along on that journey and the fans couldn`t engage their brains to look outside the box
I would say that is a bit unfair reflection of the fans. I run a business and I disagreed with some of the amateur work being produced by the investors. I was invested in the journey but it quickly goes south when the plans started to flounder and people lose confidence whether the plan is viable. Given the board are selling up I think that tells us more about their journey.
If I picked up incorrectly on the inference then I apologise.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Tue 22 Oct 17:48
"I would say that is a bit unfair reflection of the fans."
A good deal more than a "bit unfair" comment.
There isn`t an extensive latent fan base out there prepared to meet the overpriced admission prices to attend football regularly.
A different scenario from the days when Leishman`s teams were drawing in thousands paying a few quid at the gate.
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