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Topic Originator: USMac
Date: Sun 21 Dec 21:54
Looking at other Scottish Championship and League One rosters, I see many former Pars’ players or loanees. I was trying to think who is playing at a higher level — top level in Scotland or top 3 levels in England. I can think of 3:
Josh Edwards (injured) at Charlton
Lewis McCann at Fleetwood
Kevin Nisbet at Aberdeen
Anyone else? Thanks
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Sun 21 Dec 22:02
Shankland (Hearts)
Tobi, Mayo, Anderson, Kiltie and Polworth (Killie)
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Topic Originator: AlterPar
Date: Sun 21 Dec 22:07
Scott Banks
Bobby Kamwa
Ewan Henderson
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 21 Dec 22:22
Honestly questioning how much higher a level Fleetwood is tbh… just because it’s down south means nothing. He controlled the ball with his knee and it ended up in the main stand last season, I’ll guarantee he’s not improved that much
COYP
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Topic Originator: parsloyal98
Date: Sun 21 Dec 22:25
Jakub Stolarczyk immediately springs to mind. Playing as the no. 1 at Leicester City.
We love Dunfermline We do!
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Sun 21 Dec 23:55
Ross Graham (Dundee Utd). In fairness, he was only on loan at EEP.
_________________
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Topic Originator: Dart
Date: Mon 22 Dec 12:20
Myles Hippolyte at Wimbledon and Reece Cole at Exeter in the 3rd tier.
I don`t know what level the Canadian Premier League is but Fraser Aird recently scored a penalty in the Cup Final for Cavalry. Played in heavy snow, Aird gets pelted with snowballs by the Ottawa fans after scoring. Ottawa`s equaliser, dubbed the "icicle kick" is worth seeing too. Here`s a link to highlights - Aird`s goal is around the 3 minute mark:
https://youtu.be/O56wF0Sf4DU?si=UOT_sARagIu3E8UT
Post Edited (Mon 22 Dec 17:22)
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Topic Originator: adj27
Date: Mon 22 Dec 12:29
Always liked Reece Cole and felt Yogi didn’t give him much of a chance - I see he scored again at the weekend. Fleetwood do not play in the top 3 tiers in England.
Andy
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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Mon 22 Dec 12:51
Having previously lived in the south coast of England for 12 years and regularly watched Portsmouth, Bournemouth & Plymouth over that time, I’m not having the English League 1 & 2 being described as a higher level, no way!
Loving You, Is In My DNA 🇾🇪
Post Edited (Mon 22 Dec 12:55)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 22 Dec 13:45
If Leagues 1 and 2 in England are no better than our Championship I`m surprised more Scottish players aren`t playing there. According to most sources the average wage in EL1 is c£6k per week and in EL2 is c£2k per week. I can`t see any Scottish Championship clubs competing with these wages apart from maybe Ross County and, if so, they are hardly justified based on performance this season.
Even Scottish Premiership clubs have recruited players from the English National League to improve the quality of their squad. Malachi Fagan-Walcott who was on loan to us a couple of seasons ago, having previously been on loan at Dundee, and was easily good enough for our Championship is now playing for York City in the ENL.
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Topic Originator: WarringtonPar
Date: Mon 22 Dec 13:58
Quote:
wee eck, Mon 22 Dec 13:45
If Leagues 1 and 2 in England are no better than our Championship I`m surprised more Scottish players aren`t playing there. According to most sources the average wage in EL1 is c£6k per week and in EL2 is c£2k per week. I can`t see any Scottish Championship clubs competing with these wages apart from maybe Ross County and, if so, they are hardly justified based on performance this season.
Even Scottish Premiership clubs have recruited players from the English National League to improve the quality of their squad. Malachi Fagan-Walcott who was on loan to us a couple of seasons ago, having previously been on loan at Dundee, and was easily good enough for our Championship is now playing for York City in the ENL.
Depends how you’re measuring quality. Quality of football or the level of salary. If it’s quality of football then I’d have to say I agree with the previous poster. The lower league games I’ve seen down here (league 1&2) are no better than league 1 in Scotland with the exception of a few teams where added investment has been made through the likes of Birmingham City or Wrexham in recent years.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 22 Dec 14:38
`Quality` is obviously a subjective judgement but generally in football, as in most walks of life, better players command better wages. If Scottish Championship players are generally as good as English League 1 and 2 players why don`t these English clubs sign more Scottish players to try and bring their costs down? There`s such a difference in average salaries I`m sure they could tempt players south at lower rates than they`re paying their English counterparts.
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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Mon 22 Dec 15:35
Quote:
wee eck, Mon 22 Dec 14:38
If Scottish Championship players are generally as good as English League 1 and 2 players why don`t these English clubs sign more Scottish players to try and bring their costs down? There`s such a difference in average salaries I`m sure they could tempt players south at lower rates than they`re paying their English counterparts.
I don’t think there’s necessarily 1 right or wrong answer for this question Wee Eck, but it’s an interesting one that could be debated. My gut instinct would say that clubs don’t tend to have the resources to scout the area, but I might be wrong. What I would say, is over the past 30 or so years, a lot of Scottish players have moved down to that level and many have made a good living from it.
I mentioned my 12 years on the south coast. In my time, I saw a number of Scottish players playing for and against Portsmouth, Bournemouth and Plymouth. From memory, Mark Burchill, Kevin Harper, Richard Hughes & Garry Brady, Warren Cummings, Peter Grant, Derek Holmes, Kieran McAnespie, Paul Telfer, Graham Mathie& Steven Milne, which I would say is a pretty decent amount.
Quote:
wee eck, Mon 22 Dec 13:45
Even Scottish Premiership clubs have recruited players from the English National League to improve the quality of their squad.
We have, but I think there’s a general acceptance that “rough diamonds” can be found at that level in England and items obviously a large pool to pick from, even The Wee Team picked a few players from there in the summer and the likes of Motherwell (Inverness and Ross County previous) regularly do. However, I would love to see the stats in how many had been hits and how many have been back down the road after a season or 2 with very little game time.
Loving You, Is In My DNA 🇾🇪
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Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Mon 22 Dec 15:39
"If Leagues 1 and 2 in England are no better than our Championship I`m surprised more Scottish players aren`t playing there. According to most sources the average wage in EL1 is c£6k per week and in EL2 is c£2k per week. I can`t see any Scottish Championship clubs competing with these wages apart from maybe Ross County and, if so, they are hardly justified based on performance this season."
issue in english L1 and L2 is most contracts are 12month deals. A young guys with a family isnt going to uproot from central belt of scotland to @rse end of england for a 1 year deal with no stability.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 22 Dec 16:28
Lewis McCann is under contract at Fleetwood until 2027 and Josh Edwards is under contract at Charlton until 2028. There must be lots of players in the Scottish Championship who are on one-year contracts. Hammy and TOB are two examples.
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Topic Originator: Berkey
Date: Mon 22 Dec 18:39
Without wishing to be pedantic but isn’t Fleetwood in the 4th tier of English football not in the top 3 leagues as the op suggests.
We played some conference teams in the cup not that long ago and the results were mixed but mostly positive for Scottish teams, can’t imagine league 2 is much different from middle of the Scottish championship.
Quite a few Scottish players head down south and within a year or so they are back. Suggests they don’t settle well or perhaps if only a year or 2’s deal they don’t uproot the family if they have kids settled in school. If the kids are young there isn’t anyone there to help if you move away from family either.
The post below replying to me is by one of .nets finest champions of mediocrity!
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Topic Originator: neils
Date: Mon 22 Dec 19:19
I find it hard to compare, league 2 is probably mid Scottish Championship, but the main difference is the league alone is a minimum of 46 games! So, fitness is the main thing, any games I`ve watched, it`s tended to be all players look like athletes, skill comes second.
There`s a whole bunch of players in our league that couldn`t possibly hack that level of exercise. Ditto, I would imagine a few that aren`t great, but could fit in league 2 because of physicality.
The money is an obvious attraction, even a fairly minor team can give out a life changing contract if it`s long enough.
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Topic Originator: Jock Par36
Date: Mon 22 Dec 19:49
I watch the English championship, league`s 1 and 2
there is mo way that English league 2 is better
than the Scottish championship
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Topic Originator: Par-timer
Date: Mon 22 Dec 20:14
In terms of where we would sit in the English pyramid, our own average gate is very similar to the average for L2, whereas the average SC gate is closer to that of the NL. The average gate in L1 is double ours, and two clubs (Bradford and Bolton average over 20k per home game.
With regard to players we have had recently, whilst Myles Hippolyte, Fraser Murray and Scott Banks are L1, LMcC and Bobby Kamwa are L2 and MFW and Josh Coley are NL, Dan Pybus, Miles Welch-Hayes, Xavier Benjamin and Brad Holmes (8 goals from 9+16 appearances this season for the Nash with their dismal 341 average crowd) are all down at NLN/S level.
Our most talented players (eg JCM) could probably therefore aspire to play L1 or above in the future if they continue to develop, whereas less gifted but hard-working team-mates could still eke out a living in the lower reaches of the National Leagues, but there doesn’t seem to be a particularly great correlation between performance for the Pars and future English pyramid level looking at the examples above.
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Topic Originator: USMac
Date: Mon 22 Dec 21:09
Thanks for everyone’s contributions. Certainly, there would be players who formerly played on loan with the Pars who have moved to higher levels, so I was more focused on players that were actually our players.
My mistake: Fleetwood is not L1.
I do think that L1 is a higher level than Sc Champ, but that L2 is not.
Some former players are in the top Ireland or N Ireland leagues, e.g., Andy Ryan at Larne or Declan McManus at Coleraine, but I don’t have a sense whether that would be a higher level. DM was at TNS previously too.
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Mon 22 Dec 21:51
I`ve been going to see Barnet (L2) pretty frequently this season.
In a match between the two teams I reckon Barnet would just about shade it - but it`d be close. Slicker in goals is really solid (don`t be fooled by his Scotland performance). the defence is filled with `steady` performers - I can`t recall a `howler` from any of them this season. the midfield is workmanlike (I`m not a fan of the midfield) and up front they have Ndlovu and Assombalonga as target men, and Stead who works his socks off. Kanu gives them some unpredictability wherever Brennan chooses to play him.
The difference however is that Barnet has a pretty good record of producing players that move up the leagues - with some making it to the lower reaches of the Prem (Jason Puncheon, Ronnie Edwards) or upper reaches of the Championship (Mason-Clarke, Albert Adomah).
If you`re young(ish) and REALLY want to make in football I`d choose to be in England L2 over the Scottish Championship every day of the week.
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Tue 23 Dec 02:06
Quote:
Bandy, Mon 22 Dec 21:51
If you`re young(ish) and REALLY want to make in football I`d choose to be in England L2 over the Scottish Championship every day of the week.
I agree with that. English clubs, certainly from L1 upwards, many in L2, and even some from the NL, pay better wages, and also have better facilities than any Scottish Championship clubs apart from maybe 2 or 3.
In addition, the undeniable fact that there are far more clubs at these levels paying good money means there are more opportunities for a good player to make a decent career. Obviously there is more competition too for these rewards, so the player has to be mentally resilient and have a belief in his own ability, so that if he is unsuccessful at one club he can try again somewhere else.
_________________
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Topic Originator: DNCH
Date: Tue 23 Dec 03:47
Forgive me if this one has been said but Liam Polworth played for us 2/3 seasons ago on loan and he`s currently at Kilmarnock. I`ve almost zero memory of him.
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Topic Originator: adj27
Date: Tue 23 Dec 08:51
Unfortunately i remember him well - very poor for us. Steven Lawless about the same time - both should have contributed much more than they did - suspect the manager was mostly to blame.
Andy
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