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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sun 25 Jan 11:33
Here`s a fascinating discussion with Falkirk CEO, Jamie Swinney, on improving Scottish football. It covers many of the topics we regularly discuss here.
Swinney clearly explains the flaws of the current financial distribution in Scottish football and offers some creative solutions.
It`s a very good discussion and his ideas are well worth considering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bsylhVz298
Post Edited (Mon 26 Jan 00:35)
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 25 Jan 11:40
Quote:
OzPar, Sun 25 Jan 11:33
Here`s a fascinating discussion with Falkirk CEO, Jamie Swinney, on improving Scottish football. It covers many of the topics we regularly discuss here.
Swinney clearly explains the flaws of the current financial distribution in Scottish football and offers some creative solutions.
It`s a very good discussion and his ideas are well worth considering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bsylhVz298
When I get the chance I’ll listen to it. Kinda had a wee bit back and forth with Jamie on X and I’ve got to say he strikes me as a level headed and ambitious guy. He doesn’t just talk about improving his own club but will talk about Scottish football as a whole.
As a football fan we need to be realistic, the best the Pars could ever hope for is a wee run in the European Conference league and in the end we’d be extremely lucky to get past the group stages. The Old Firm may still have the ability to win the Europa League but Champions League they’re 2/3 steps behind the best.
Could Scotland reach 1/4 finals and semi finals of major tournaments? I think if Croatia and Wales can, we can however, our league structure needs to helps our national team and not hinder it.
COYP
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sun 25 Jan 20:20
What are his “creative solutions” to improving Scottish football ?
If it’s a based on a redistribution of money based on sharing gate receipts then it’ll get nowhere.
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Topic Originator: ParfectXI
Date: Sun 25 Jan 20:40
veteraneastender wrote:
> What are his “creative solutions” to improving Scottish
> football ?
>
> If it’s a based on a redistribution of money based on sharing
> gate receipts then it’ll get nowhere.
Revenue share WILL happen - it won’t be in the next year or two but it will happen!
It will happen when TV companies and fans get bored with the same 2 winning the league easily every year, leading to the TV companies even less interested in buying the rights! It’ll happen when the OF stop becoming competitive in Europe and they waken up and realise it’s because they barely get any real competitive football within the leagues due to the gulf in money and class of players that teams are able to attract!
Some of this we are already starting to see, however, Doncaster and the OF boards are still under the impression that The Premier League is an attractive watch (for the first time in a long time it has been this year but that has been down mostly to Poor Rangers and Celtic teams with terrible managers at points rather than anything else)
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sun 25 Jan 22:02
Quote:
ParfectXI, Sun 25 Jan 20:40
veteraneastender wrote:
> What are his “creative solutions” to improving Scottish
> football ?
>
> If it’s a based on a redistribution of money based on sharing
> gate receipts then it’ll get nowhere.
Revenue share WILL happen - it won’t be in the next year or two but it will happen!
It will happen when TV companies and fans get bored with the same 2 winning the league easily every year, leading to the TV companies even less interested in buying the rights! It’ll happen when the OF stop becoming competitive in Europe and they waken up and realise it’s because they barely get any real competitive football within the leagues due to the gulf in money and class of players that teams are able to attract!
Some of this we are already starting to see, however, Doncaster and the OF boards are still under the impression that The Premier League is an attractive watch (for the first time in a long time it has been this year but that has been down mostly to Poor Rangers and Celtic teams with terrible managers at points rather than anything else)
Wishful thinking.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 25 Jan 22:21
Quote:
veteraneastender, Sun 25 Jan 20:20
What are his “creative solutions” to improving Scottish football ?
If it’s a based on a redistribution of money based on sharing gate receipts then it’ll get nowhere.
He explains them in the video.
The main thing actually seems to be a bigger league. He highlights that it gives most teams more security about what league they`ll be in so can plan better. It also means less pressure and higher likelihood to take a chance on youth.
Unfortunately, it would mean fewer games against Celtic and The Rangers so wee clubs see that as a loss of revenue and Celtic and Rangers fans need regular derbies as an excuse to commit domestic abuse.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Mon 26 Jan 00:35
Jamie Swinney also pointed out that it is about reducing the slice of the Scottish revenue pie that the Old Firm receives.
If, say, 3 or 4 million pounds were taken from their "prize" money and distributed among the other clubs, it would make a world of difference to most of the teams outside the Premier League. That money is small fry to Celtic or Rangers, who already benefit hugely from additional Euro and advertising/sponsorship revenues.
He explains the scale of this bit really well.
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Topic Originator: Jock Par36
Date: Mon 26 Jan 12:19
We have to stop this awful way, our league`s are set up.
Let`s get back to playing each other twice a season.
The present set up is only for the 2 ugly weegie teams
There is nothing in reality, that Celtic and Rangers can
do about, because there is nowhere else for them to go
England do not want them, so for goodness sake, let`s
change this setup.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Mon 26 Jan 12:55
The prize money is based on final league tables and progress in cup competitions.
How do you tweak these to reduce the old firm share ?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 26 Jan 13:01
Quote:
veteraneastender, Mon 26 Jan 12:55
The prize money is based on final league tables and progress in cup competitions.
How do you tweak these to reduce the old firm share ?
The current percentage for 1st is around 14%, 10% for second, 8% for third. You change that so it`s 10, 9, 8. Arguably you could reduce the amount the bottom Premier club receives too as it`s currently DOUBLE what the winner of the Championship receives.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Mon 26 Jan 16:06
Celtic have over 15 years worth of 1st place prize money sitting in their coffers right now. Not to mention the largest gate income and, Id guess, the largest sponsorship income as well.
There is no chance clubs like that will vote (or allow) for change knowing that others could close the almighty gap to them.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Mon 26 Jan 16:32
Two leagues of 21 .. 4 up 4 down .. no split .. 2 points a win 1 a draw .. simples
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: Polt
Date: Mon 26 Jan 18:35
I would like to see the English system implemented here. 3 or 4 leagues of 20 with lowland and highland clubs joining the 3rd league. As has been shown in past a lot of these former Junior clubs have developed to a stage of being better than the lowest tier of league 2.
Spartans - Edinburgh - Kelty hearts - cove - East Kilbride
Just shows that there is a need for change as we are currently strangling potential great clubs. In the past we recruited from these teams and they gave us some amazing players. Alex smith Dunbar to Dunfermline won Scottish cup - moved to Rangers playing in a European cup final.
I really feel if we were to expand it would make the leagues so much more competitive and also entertaining. 2 up 2 down with extra place up and down via play offs similar to what we have now without the shocking advantage to premiership team. A complete pyramid system.if old firm don’t like it … expell them but they gonna need to learn to share in the long term I think it would bring big investment in Scottish football.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Mon 26 Jan 19:11
Quote:
Buspasspar, Mon 26 Jan 16:32
Two leagues of 21 .. 4 up 4 down .. no split .. 2 points a win 1 a draw .. simples
In years gone by we’ve had a division where one team had an idle Saturday in rotation - having two would be a backward move.
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Mon 26 Jan 19:49
You can see from the way the leagues are set up at the moment it`s probably the best League sizes we can have. A top tier of 12 clubs is about perfect. If you replace Livingston with us, that would be the ideal top 12 based on club size. Any more than that, and you would have a top flight with some poorly supported teams, Ayr United, Arbroath, Raith Rovers. If you had 16 teams in the top flight there would be no team out with the top flight worth having in it, it would weaken the other leagues. Currently in the top 4 leagues, there are hardly any games that are dead rubbers. Only thing I would like to see is the winners of the Highland and Lowland Leagues get automatic promotion and the bottom two from League Two automatically relegated
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Topic Originator: Jock Par36
Date: Tue 27 Jan 13:01
Playing each other 4 times a season is not the answer.
We have to increase the size of the league`s. To make
it more intense, the bottom 4 all relegated and the 2
above in a relegation play off with the 5th and 6th
teams in the league below. I suggest league`s of 18 teams.
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Topic Originator: doctordandruff
Date: Tue 27 Jan 15:32
We had a chance for real change when Rangers went bust. Instead, Aberdeen jumped into bed with Celtic and the chance was gone.
I think thats probably the case at a lot of prem teams, happy to blame the Old Firm and Sky but actually want the status quo to stay.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Tue 27 Jan 17:18
I don`t see extending the leagues having a significant effect - maybe a couple of clubs added to the top tier, but no more.
The real problem IMO is that we just don`t have enough clubs of sufficient stature (attendance potential being a key factor) to make a difference there.
Would Arbroath (for example and no disrespect) be an improvement ?
The miserable crowd at the recent Livingston v St.Mirren game brings this issue into focus.
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Topic Originator: Jock Par36
Date: Tue 27 Jan 18:16
Does it really matter which clubs are in the top league.
In previous years, we`ve had teams such as, Hamilton,
Inverness, Ross County, Gretna, and at the moment
Livingston, and all these teams had very little support.
The league setup in Scotland is boring and it`s time
for change.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Tue 27 Jan 21:30
Yes - and all named have slipped down, some further than the second tier, Hamilton in a serious mess and Gretna gone.
Livi in danger of relegation as well.
Post Edited (Tue 27 Jan 21:31)
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Topic Originator: USMac
Date: Wed 28 Jan 01:13
Let’s go to a 16-team top league where everyone plays everyone else home and away (30 matches). then, the league splits into quarters and each group of 4 teams plays the other 3 teams home and away again (6 more matches).
So you play 4 matches only against the 3 teams closest to you in the standings. That’s how you sell the Glasgow duo on the idea.
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Topic Originator: Jock Par36
Date: Wed 28 Jan 01:14
A chance of being relegated affects all teams and if
you can`t cope in a higher teir, then do not go there.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Wed 28 Jan 13:27
Im actually starting to think the league size is less significant but I do think a 16 team league with a split for Europe and title/ relegation. We would have to accept the number of ‘nothing’ games would also increase. As would the diversity of clubs that would be involved. No doubt clubs like Arbroath/Raith Rovers would eventually get a shot in the top league. As would we!
Honestly though, a little less cash for the top teams and a little more for the bottom teams would go a long way.
I’ve not listened that much of the interview with Jamie but I agreed with him about redistribution of Prize money. Think you would eventually see Rangers and Celtic redeveloping their stadiums to raise attendances. I don’t think either would have problems since they’ve both got such a high percentage of ST holders and a waiting list for ST tickets. Celtic especially should have done more with Celtic park by now.
COYP
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Wed 28 Jan 14:05
"A chance of being relegated affects all teams and if
you can`t cope in a higher teir, then do not go there."
It doesn`t affect all clubs though - 2 have never been relegated from the top tier since leagues started around 1890 and Rangers only went down for non playing issues off the park.
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Topic Originator: DunPar
Date: Wed 28 Jan 14:54
Okay, it’s not the most prestigious league in the world but some club successes recently……..Norway. I didn’t realise that they have a 16 team/30 game league season. No idea how successful the format is but Bodo Glimt have done alright (even if they’re just 28th in champions league) from it even with average gates that are less than Motherwell.
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Wed 28 Jan 15:06
Is there a reason you didn`t include Partick Thistle and St Johnstone there red-star-par? Those clubs along with ourselves could see decent crowds, especially if we were doing well or were competitively priced.
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Topic Originator: neils
Date: Wed 28 Jan 16:08
Y, I go with red star, there simply aren`t enough clubs of good size, and we have 25 full time clubs which is a lot.
It does get repetitive playing each team 4 times, but on the flip side practically every game has something to play for up to the end.
I always favoured a 16:team top flight, but that`s pretty much where we were before Premier league was started, there were too many clubs stagnating, and crowds were really low.
Definitely would like to see more promotion/relegation from the bottom league- if it`s 2 places automatically would give teams a better chance.
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Wed 28 Jan 16:18
Employ the german league system but with 16 teams?
COYP
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Wed 28 Jan 17:40
Quote:
kelty_par, Wed 28 Jan 15:06
Is there a reason you didn`t include Partick Thistle and St Johnstone there red-star-par? Those clubs along with ourselves could see decent crowds, especially if we were doing well or were competitively priced.
Sorry, I had been in the boozer for a few hours when I wrote that, so probably didn`t fully expand on what I meant. Basically replace Livi with us, that would be the 12 biggest teams. You could add St Johnstone and Partick Thistle to that and have 14 reasonably well supported teams, but after that the crowds are awful. A 16 team league would soon become boring, predictable, and crowds would suffer. I reckon we would see those top 14 sides pretty much ever present and then have teams like Raith, Arbroath, Ayr, Morton just yo-yo-ing up and down. At least now we see occasional shocks where a Dundee United or Hibs fall out of the top league for a while
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Wed 28 Jan 19:53
Quote:
red-star-par, Wed 28 Jan 17:40
Quote:
kelty_par, Wed 28 Jan 15:06
Is there a reason you didn`t include Partick Thistle and St Johnstone there red-star-par? Those clubs along with ourselves could see decent crowds, especially if we were doing well or were competitively priced.
Sorry, I had been in the boozer for a few hours when I wrote that, so probably didn`t fully expand on what I meant. Basically replace Livi with us, that would be the 12 biggest teams. You could add St Johnstone and Partick Thistle to that and have 14 reasonably well supported teams, but after that the crowds are awful. A 16 team league would soon become boring, predictable, and crowds would suffer. I reckon we would see those top 14 sides pretty much ever present and then have teams like Raith, Arbroath, Ayr, Morton just yo-yo-ing up and down. At least now we see occasional shocks where a Dundee United or Hibs fall out of the top league for a while
Two of the clubs you mention were in League One not so long ago. Falkirk had been there for a while, just like we had been not too long before. The clubs with the biggest support don`t necessarily have the best players or shrewdest managers.
There should be a place for "wee" teams to mix it with the big boys when they get the right mix and perform above their historical average.
The top 16 in Scottish football would see teams like Morton, Raith, Dunfermline, Falkirk, Patrick and a few others yoyo-ing in and out, with teams like Queens Park and Arbroath (to name a few recent examples) sneaking in briefly for their moment of glory. There would be plenty of movement in and out of the division, much more variety season to season than the current top 12.
As for the meaningless games, I think that those are where managers used to give the young lads a chance, helping their development. We used to produce a lot more top players when we had meaningless games where the managers felt safe to try their promising youngsters.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
Post Edited (Wed 28 Jan 19:54)
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Wed 28 Jan 20:48
I kind of think we have things just about spot on with the league set up but would like Two up two down from the SPL and championship with a straight playoff with the third placed team.
I remember the days when 4th spot was considered a disaster with pars fans but we would take that now.
It is what it is.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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