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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sun 7 Jun 12:52
Ref: thebear Sun 7 Jun 10:36
I believe we have far higher potential, we just [have] to keep moving on, must win league this year.
--------------------------------------------
Yes indeedy - we are currently far short of our potential as a club. If we want to keep the players we want to keep - we have to get into the Premiership asap so as to afford higher wages and other attractions - otherwise we`re likely to need significant rebuilds year on year just to stay where we are - in this foresaken league.
I think it`s why NL was gutted that we didn`t win through the play-offs - he probably knew that would undo some of the positive work done in the season just past. We absolutely must get oot this `kin league!
Post Edited (Sun 07 Jun 12:57)
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Topic Originator: John-Boy
Date: Sun 7 Jun 15:44
F@lkirk sold 5300 season tickets in 48 hours.
I’m afraid we are a long shot from that - but the potential is definitely there for that to happen.
I can’t ever see a St Johnstone achieving anything like that.
I understand the club staff need a break, but I think we failed to materialise on the wave of the cup final positivity.
Free shirt when you buy a season ticket, or a cup final flag, something/ anything with the sheer volume of traffic going through the club shop.
Potential needs to match execution.
Do you think I'm the man?
A) Yes, B) A or C) B
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Topic Originator: 33Par
Date: Sun 7 Jun 18:33
Yes, but Grangemouth stadium only holds under 8000 hence the rush for a season ticket.
Marootsmin
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Topic Originator: dd23
Date: Sun 7 Jun 19:23
Quote:
onandupthepars, Sun 7 Jun 12:52
Ref: thebear Sun 7 Jun 10:36
I believe we have far higher potential, we just [have] to keep moving on, must win league this year.
--------------------------------------------
Yes indeedy - we are currently far short of our potential as a club. If we want to keep the players we want to keep - we have to get into the Premiership asap so as to afford higher wages and other attractions - otherwise we`re likely to need significant rebuilds year on year just to stay where we are - in this foresaken league.
I think it`s why NL was gutted that we didn`t win through the play-offs - he probably knew that would undo some of the positive work done in the season just past. We absolutely must get oot this `kin league!
That’s a never ending cycle though. We get in the premiership and sign better players, then we can’t keep them because we’re not a top 6 club. We become a top 6 club and sign better players which we can’t keep because we’re not in Europe, then it’s the europa league etc, etc. Personally although I’d always like us to be better I’m happy with what we’ve got and where we are because I just enjoy watching us play (most of the time😜).
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 7 Jun 19:29
Surely every club has potential but it depends who is in charge. The Pars should be in the Premiership. That`s not me saying that as a Pars fan, but as a realist. We`re a well supported club so should have the additional funding to make things happen. The problem is that it`s easy come, easy go with Scotland`s football finances. The longer we`re out the Premier the harder it becomes to get there despite higher numbers of people through the gate.
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Topic Originator: Hoolie
Date: Sun 7 Jun 19:48
The Germans put this club back at least 1 or 2 seasons where we should be.
The new investors did the right thing bringing a far superior manager for the championship in Lennon and build from there.
We have massive potential but need to bring money in selling our top players and get players in that have potential then when the books are balanced can keep these players or sell..
Getting Lennon/backroom staff was the best business the club has done..his experience would have a lot to do on how the club/behind the scenes is now.
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Sun 7 Jun 20:03
Quote:
Hoolie, Sun 7 Jun 19:48
The Germans put this club back at least 1 or 2 seasons where we should be.
The new investors did the right thing bringing a far superior manager for the championship in Lennon and build from there.
We have massive potential but need to bring money in selling our top players and get players in that have potential then when the books are balanced can keep these players or sell..
Getting Lennon/backroom staff was the best business the club has done..his experience would have a lot to do on how the club/behind the scenes is now.
They have lifted the profile of the club as well
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: Hoolie
Date: Sun 7 Jun 20:12
Profile of the club has gone up and the signing or possible signing of Wanyama when Lennon came in was brilliant imo.
We all know the guy was a heavy lump now but Lennon stirred it all up with a player all Scottish fans saw playing well for Celtic.. he was a fat dud but Dunfermline became a name again and in papers/social media…
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sun 7 Jun 22:14
Quote:
Hoolie, Sun 7 Jun 20:12
Profile of the club has gone up and the signing or possible signing of Wanyama when Lennon came in was brilliant imo.
We all know the guy was a heavy lump now but Lennon stirred it all up with a player all Scottish fans saw playing well for Celtic.. he was a fat dud but Dunfermline became a name again and in papers/social media…
I don’ follow what you are saying here ? Who did Scottish fans see playing well for Celtic ?
Post Edited (Sun 07 Jun 22:14)
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sun 7 Jun 23:14
I think our current set-up - with the financial backing and management and ethos at EEP now - has set us on a course that could see us completely break our old underachieving yo-yo mould and become established for many years in the top flight.
I see no reason why, if our chiefs and backers stick with us, we can`t fulfill our potential to become regular top six or thereabouts. Who would we expect to remain bigger than us as a club? Only `Tic, Huns, Jambos, Hibees, Dons and Arabs maybe - I don`t think of any other clubs having possibly greater potential than us.
Well our top brass will have to work even greater magic in the season to come, this is the one we`ve been waiting for when I think NL & co. will be doing their utmost to compete for the title.
Post Edited (Mon 08 Jun 00:22)
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Topic Originator: gwh18
Date: Sun 7 Jun 23:39
There can’t be many teams outwith the teams listed above that have lost as many finals as Dunfermline. . I’ve got to work for the next 20 years and seen us lose 5
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 8 Jun 06:24
I wonder what our average attendance might be if we were to be promoted next season and finished in the Top 6 in 27-28. Believe it or not, we averaged close to 11,000 under Jim Leishman when we still had the standing terracing. If memory serves, it was the 5th highest in the country that season. Was that when we had Kozma, O`Boyle and Ross Jack up front?
It was a different story when we finished 4th and made the SC Final in 2004 under the 2 Jimmys. I think we averaged around 6,000 for league matches. That was the reason JC gave for sloping off to Aberdeen. Of course, we know the real reason.....
Not your average Sunday League player.
Post Edited (Mon 08 Jun 06:25)
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Mon 8 Jun 07:56
It`s an interesting point, we get a large number of home fans every week and sometimes just a bus full of away fans. You have to think, what would the crowds be like if we had a couple of thousand away fans every game as well.
I`m not sure why the crowds were so poor under Calderwood when the team were one of the best in Scotland outwith the Old Firm. Masterton and Yorkston pretty much bet the house on the crowds increasing. Personally for me, I went off going to the matches for a while around this time, I think I had been used to the blood and guts battling, the out and out attacking football under Leishman and then Paton, and found it really exciting. The way Calderwood`s teams played just didn`t do it for me in the same way, and we were rumoured to be paying some players about £5,000 a week at that stage, which said nothing to me about my life, and I stopped having the connection with the players that I`d felt previously
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Mon 8 Jun 08:10
The crowds were inflated during the 80’s due to us having an 18000 capacity stadium which was often filled when the old firm came to town.
For the run of the mill fixtures vs St Mirren etc, you were looking at roughly what we get now.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Mon 8 Jun 08:26
The admission price during Leishman’s time as manager were a fraction of later seasons - around £2-£4.
That attracted peripheral fans.
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Topic Originator: BouncyPar
Date: Mon 8 Jun 08:36
Quote:
veteraneastender, Mon 8 Jun 08:26
The admission price during Leishman’s time as manager were a fraction of later seasons - around £2-£4.
That attracted peripheral fans.
Start adding in the increase of peripheral costs such as transport, beer, food etc and suddenly a trip to the football (even a home match) becomes an expensive luxury these days.
Plus the all-seater stadiums have ruined/changed the experience for many.
It ain`t what it used to be, sadly
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 8 Jun 08:44
The Courier is reporting that total ST sales are heading towards 1,000 and around 20% were to fans who hadn`t bought one last season.
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Mon 8 Jun 11:22
Quote:
AdamAntsParsStripe, Mon 8 Jun 08:10
The crowds were inflated during the 80’s due to us having an 18000 capacity stadium which was often filled when the old firm came to town.
For the run of the mill fixtures vs St Mirren etc, you were looking at roughly what we get now.
Correct.
Although the core Pars fanbase might have been a bit larger, much of the increase in attendances came through the travelling supports - see the graph on this site for the difference between highest and lowest attendances at that time.https://parsdatabase.co.uk/stadium/Attend/Attendances.htm
I have a suspicion (no stats to back it up) that travelling supports for most teams are no longer what they used to be, so even with a smaller stadium we would be unlikely to completely fill it for a lot of Premiership matches
_________________
 Support Dunfermline Athletic Disabled Supporters` Club (DADSC) when you shop online with one of 8000 firms: https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/dadsc[
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Topic Originator: thebear
Date: Mon 8 Jun 13:12
The problem is we are going through a successful run, so our fans will increase a bit, if promotion happens it will increase a bit more.
Other than the top 4 fans tend to be quite low, similar levels to us, so if they are struggling fan levels decrease, that means travelling fans are very poor, this made worse by costs of tickets, transport and food,so to end up paying £50 for a poor match, means they dont bother. Sadly that can be seen all the way through the leagues. We need success but also have the potential to have 10k fans every week, then it`s sustainable.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Mon 8 Jun 15:36
10,000 at EEP is wishful thinking - except on a few odd occasions.
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Topic Originator: p4r5f4n
Date: Mon 8 Jun 15:55
I was in charge of the turnstiles cash counting between 1966 and 1998 and I’m pretty sure that if you excluded Rangers and Celtic the attendances were between 5000 and 7000. European games were significantly more.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 8 Jun 15:56
Quote:
AdamAntsParsStripe, Mon 8 Jun 08:10
The crowds were inflated during the 80’s due to us having an 18000 capacity stadium which was often filled when the old firm came to town.
For the run of the mill fixtures vs St Mirren etc, you were looking at roughly what we get now.
That`s undoubtedly true, AAPS, but since EEP became an allseated stadium, it`s only been sold out on a few occasions. I can recall games v Dundee Utd, Raith and Falkirk, but never Celtic or Rangers.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Mon 8 Jun 16:11
Quote:
GG Riva, Mon 8 Jun 15:56
That`s undoubtedly true, AAPS, but since EEP became an allseated stadium, it`s only been sold out on a few occasions. I can recall games v Dundee Utd, Raith and Falkirk, but never Celtic or Rangers.
That coincided with almost every home game v either of the two cheeks being live on TV, and moved away from Saturday 3pm - reducing the chances of a sellout
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Topic Originator: neils
Date: Mon 8 Jun 16:20
Also I think there is a low home walk up for cheeks games, many think why bother with the hassle.
I think our regular support is pretty much the same as Motherwell, St Mirren etc. like these teams we get the odd couple of seasons where there is a big boost (first season back etc) but typically go back down eventually. It`s not easy supporting a diddy team, and there will always be a few seasons where we are mince, with people throwing in the towel.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Mon 8 Jun 17:15
"That`s undoubtedly true, AAPS, but since EEP became an all seated stadium, it`s only been sold out on a few occasions. I can recall games v Dundee Utd, Raith and Falkirk, but never Celtic or Rangers."
GG - was that Dundee United game not reduced to £5 admission ?
Some season ticket holders were unable to get in.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Mon 8 Jun 18:25
I think there was a mixture of things going on that affected attendances late 90’s onwards.
Many just didn’t take to being told to sit down when they had years on the terracing.
In the Premier League we’d lose a lot more than we won by and large and that affected walk up fans who decided to stay away particularly when there was TV cameras there.
I think the game we won 3-2 vs Rangers the Norrie end was less than half full for example.
The football under Calderwood wasn’t as pleasing on the eye either after the Paton years of ‘up and at them’
Finally it was all about cash from our board back then.
There didn’t appear to be great deals for youngsters getting a season ticket from what I remember.
That’s been somewhat addressed in recent years but time will tell if we revert back to fleecing the fans if and when we go back up.
I hate to say it but F*lkirk had the right approach last season.
Get the punters in the door first and foremost and you have fans for life rather than short term financial gain.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 8 Jun 19:18
Quote:
veteraneastender, Mon 8 Jun 17:15
"That`s undoubtedly true, AAPS, but since EEP became an all seated stadium, it`s only been sold out on a few occasions. I can recall games v Dundee Utd, Raith and Falkirk, but never Celtic or Rangers."
GG - was that Dundee United game not reduced to £5 admission ?
Some season ticket holders were unable to get in.
Aye, our first ever game on SKY -Sunday evening at 6.05. They just let everyone in that evening, and many ST holders arrived just before KO, to find walk ups sitting in their seats.
An organisational disaster. 🙄
"That coincided with almost every home game v either of the two cheeks being live on TV, and moved away from Saturday 3pm - reducing the chances of a sellout."
Correct, Lux. These games were moved to the Sunday at 3 pm and on the BBC. The home side got £50k, the visitors, £45k. Yorkston told me the £50k just about covered the loss at the turnstiles while the OF got £45k, whereas normally they`d get hee haw for an away game..... 🙄
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Wed 10 Jun 16:46
The reality is that we have a core support between 4000 to 5000 which swells for high profile games, especially where the opposition bring a decent travelling support.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Wed 10 Jun 17:33
What d`you mean by `core support` VEE? You mean support through thick and thin? 4,000 to 5,000 may be right - especially while we`re in the Championship. But Dunfermline`s population is increasing and if we were established in the Premiership - regularly in the top six or challenging for it - I think our average support would be `core` plus a lot more. Our potential support is not fixed at where we are now, d`you agree?
Post Edited (Wed 10 Jun 17:35)
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Topic Originator: BouncyPar
Date: Wed 10 Jun 17:50
Dunfermline may be increasing in size, but a large amount of the new population is folk moving into the area, particularly from Edinburgh, who already have family ties to clubs. It`s not unusual to see kids in Duloch with Hearts or Hibs shirts on. It would be nice to see them support local, but the glamour of regular European football across the water means that whilst the population of our city is increasing, the interest in the club might not match it unfortunately
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Wed 10 Jun 18:21
Fair point, Bouncy.
Becoming established in the top flight is a necessity though - at least we know that much, so as to gain plenty spondulix, retain good management and attract good playing and background staff to our progressive club.
Excellent image-building and marketing, attractive not just to the converted, might also help.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Wed 10 Jun 18:39
"What d`you mean by `core support` VEE? You mean support through thick and thin? 4,000 to 5,000 may be right - especially while we`re in the Championship. But Dunfermline`s population is increasing and if we were established in the Premiership - regularly in the top six or challenging for it - I think our average support would be `core` plus a lot more. Our potential support is not fixed at where we are now, d`you agree?"
No, disagree.
No credible evidence to assume otherwise.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Wed 10 Jun 21:33
Falkirk`s support has increased following promotion. I`d say that`s evidence that ours will likely do the same.
Is it your view that we don`t have the potential to become established in the Premiership?
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Topic Originator: Hunter78
Date: Wed 10 Jun 21:56
Quote:
onandupthepars, Wed 10 Jun 17:33
What d`you mean by `core support` VEE? You mean support through thick and thin? 4,000 to 5,000 may be right - especially while we`re in the Championship. But Dunfermline`s population is increasing and if we were established in the Premiership - regularly in the top six or challenging for it - I think our average support would be `core` plus a lot more. Our potential support is not fixed at where we are now, d`you agree?
We’ve proved it in the past. Gates don’t go much for home support but add another 1-2h for away fans. Our average gate will increase to around 8k but home fans won’t move much, if at all.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Wed 10 Jun 23:00
"Falkirk`s support has increased following promotion. I`d say that`s evidence that ours will likely do the same.
Is it your view that we don`t have the potential to become established in the Premiership?"
Using another club as evidence is a dubious yardstick.
We`ve just played Partick Thistle in a crunch home leg Championship playoff - attendance at EEP 6,873 - of which 1840 were visiting fans.
OK, the game was on TV - but if it hadn`t have been the crowd would not have been all that much bigger IMO.
If we reach the SPL crowds will improve, partly due to away support, however they won`t otherwise rise significantly - especially if the club introduces different category pricing.
Post Edited (Wed 10 Jun 23:01)
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Topic Originator: thebear
Date: Wed 10 Jun 23:22
Think is reasonable to say core of 5k, rising to 8 for big matches.
But increased atmosphere from more away fans and and better quality football, with some success, I would expect our core to rise to 8k.
The edinburgh effect on support is fair, but still think bigger population will give bigger support, it might not be that much, at the start but when you add the effects from above it`s going to get even more.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Thu 11 Jun 00:22
I wonder if any of the 10,000 or so extra Pars fans - over and above our so-called `core` support - who went to Hampden might swell our numbers next season?
We made significant progress over the season. Our management is ambitious - together with an ongoing improvement in our brand of fitba, these things might translate into increasing support. Our season ticket sales seem to be on the up. What`s not to like?
Post Edited (Thu 11 Jun 00:25)
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