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 Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Orangeryhoor  
Date:   Mon 9 Feb 18:05

Oystons sue web forum

Football

Blackpool's owners are suing a web forum for libel in the latest of a series of actions against fans making derogatory comments online.
Owen and Karl Oyston are seeking £150,000 damages from the Back Henry Street website.
Papers were served on Thursday over six alleged defamatory comments which were made in 2014.
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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: DRFC_no1  
Date:   Mon 9 Feb 18:08

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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Hummingbird Harry  
Date:   Mon 9 Feb 18:19

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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Pars Will Never Die  
Date:   Mon 9 Feb 18:24

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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Crabbit  
Date:   Mon 9 Feb 18:48

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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Frank Grimes Jnr  
Date:   Mon 9 Feb 18:55

Blackpool are a bunch of

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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 9 Feb 19:00

Horrible club....allegedly pay their ground staff in slaughtered kittens...allegedly.

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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: mcfc-par  
Date:   Mon 9 Feb 20:52

Whatever they said about the Oystons it probably wasn't strong enough.
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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: LesPaulPar  
Date:   Mon 9 Feb 21:08

Was .net not getting threatened with legal action when Masterton was at his sh**e?



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Post Edited (Mon 09 Feb 21:08)
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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: The Lawyer  
Date:   Mon 9 Feb 22:17

Very sad to read this. However, the point has been made many times in the past that anyone libelled on a forum like this has a potential claim against the forum as well as the person who wrote the post.
Against that background, it is wholly understandable that the site administrators sometimes err on the side of caution. That shouldn't stop fair comments made in a sensible way.

Paraid
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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: brian  
Date:   Tue 10 Feb 02:53

I concur with the lawyer. :o)

its my opinion that this web site has never had a problem with people providing their own opinion. however, how that information comes across was always the problem (and as far as I am concerned is still a problem).

regardless of the content of posts should a web forum administrator get threatened with legal action they have no option but to react in the first instance.

if posts were written in a different manner then there would have been no reason for any legal action - so no point in blaming the web forum administrators !

I really don't wish to bring up this old chestnut again and don't wish to go over old ground and certainly won't wish to get into long long thread about it.

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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Hunky Par  
Date:   Tue 10 Feb 08:43

Lawyer. You might be able to help on this.

If theres a clear disclaimer on the board somewhere that states that the individual posting is solely liable for anything put on the site would that exonerate any liability for the board owners/administrators or whoever else for anything put on the site?


Btw I don't have anything controversial to post to make that clear

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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: jamiec1983  
Date:   Tue 10 Feb 10:58

why don't the Blackpool Board bring out a share issue..........
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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Tue 10 Feb 12:01

"If theres a clear disclaimer on the board somewhere that states that the individual posting is solely liable for anything put on the site would that exonerate any liability for the board owners/administrators or whoever else for anything put on the site?"

PPP, I'm pretty sure that a forum owner cannot walk away from their legal responsibilities as easily as that. The general rule is that the publisher of a defamation faces liability.

If the owner does not monitor the content or respond to complaints, he might not be classed as an author, editor or primary publisher but is likely to be treated as not having taken reasonable care and therefore treated as a secondary publisher.

Given that the UK is the libel capital of the world for bringing dubious cases before a court, it is not in a forum owner's interests to take risks!

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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Hunky Par  
Date:   Tue 10 Feb 12:41

Quote:

Stanza, Tue 10 Feb 12:01

"If theres a clear disclaimer on the board somewhere that states that the individual posting is solely liable for anything put on the site would that exonerate any liability for the board owners/administrators or whoever else for anything put on the site?"

PPP, I'm pretty sure that a forum owner cannot walk away from their legal responsibilities as easily as that. The general rule is that the publisher of a defamation faces liability.

If the owner does not monitor the content or respond to complaints, he might not be classed as an author, editor or primary publisher but is likely to be treated as not having taken reasonable care and therefore treated as a secondary publisher.

Given that the UK is the libel capital of the world for bringing dubious cases before a court, it is not in a forum owner's interests to take risks!


Fair enough Stanza. I would argue though that its the internet equivalent of charging a landlord for what someone someone says in his pub. Also is twitter and fb libel for everything thats written on there?

Btw this isn't anything to do with admin specifically here btw (or what happened before). I just think the laws a farce if the owner of the website is charged for something someone else posts


Edit to say- since the law isn't clear as far as I aware then I don't blame admin for taking precautions



Post Edited (Tue 10 Feb 12:46)
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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: mcfc-par  
Date:   Tue 10 Feb 12:51

I would argue though that its the internet equivalent of charging a landlord for what someone someone says in his pub.

One obvious difference is that what's posted on here stays here for a decent length of time and can be read by anyone with access to the internet in that time - whereas a comment made in the pub is heard by a few people and most likely forgotten by the next morning.

Also the pub landlord does not actively encourage you to make comments, he's more concerned with selling you drinks. this forum is here for the sole purpose of people posting comments.
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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Hunky Par  
Date:   Tue 10 Feb 12:56

It is true though

I found this on the web (although not sure how accurate it is)

http://www.urban75.org/info/libel.html


"On the web, the writer, the web site owner and the ISP can all be sued just like the writer, the magazine and the distributor in the print field. A link could also be potentially defamatory if you are linking to defamatory material."





Post Edited (Tue 10 Feb 12:57)
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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Hunky Par  
Date:   Tue 10 Feb 12:57

"One obvious difference is that what's posted on here stays here for a decent length of time and can be read by anyone with access to the internet in that time - whereas a comment made in the pub is heard by a few people and most likely forgotten by the next morning."


"Also the pub landlord does not actively encourage you to make comments, he's more concerned with selling you drinks. this forum is here for the sole purpose of people posting comments."

Valid points, But I still feel the laws a farce on the subject

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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Crabbit  
Date:   Tue 10 Feb 13:05

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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Hunky Par  
Date:   Tue 10 Feb 13:08

http://www.scl.org/site.aspx?i=ed40836


"Defence for operators of web sites

An important innovation in the 2013 Act is its treatment of intermediaries such as internet service providers, search engines and usenet and web site hosts. Section 5 of the 2013 Act creates a new defence for the operators of web sites in respect of a statement posted on a web site. Where an action is brought against an operator of a web site it will be a defence if the operator can show that he or she did not post the statement on the web site. The Defamation (Operators of Web sites) Regulations 2013 provide the detail of the operation of s 5 and introduce a notice of complaint and take down procedure.

There is no special defence for the operators of web sites in Scotland. However, the provisions of reg 19 of the Electronic Commerce (EC Directive) Regulations 2002 continue to apply, providing a service provider with a defence until such time as it obtains knowledge of defamatory material, provided that it acts expeditiously to remove or disable access to the material.

It is likely that in Scotland, as in England, victims will continue to take a pragmatic approach to material posted on web sites. The terms and conditions of the web site operator will normally contain provisions on take down. In most cases that will be the most effective way of getting the content removed without the need for litigation. Indeed, initial anecdotal evidence also suggests that some of the larger internet businesses consider that the administrative burden imposed upon them by s 5 means that it is easier to simply take down the allegedly defamatory material. It will be interesting to see how the use of this defence develops. "

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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Tue 10 Feb 16:01

"...... providing a service provider with a defence until such time as it obtains knowledge of defamatory material, provided that it acts expeditiously to remove or disable access to the material."

Which is what the dafc.net administrators do, and confirms what I was saying about the need for them to respond properly to any complaint or report of defamation or other possible offence.

BTW, both Facebook and Twitter adopt the same principle, whereby every report of an offending post or tweet is investigated (or so they say!)

It might be worth noting that in Sep 2014 the Court of Justice of the EU confirmed, in the context of the EU's E-Commerce Directive, that online news publishers can be held responsible for defamatory comments or other illegal material on their websites regardless of what business model they adopt.

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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Hunky Par  
Date:   Tue 10 Feb 16:46

I don't think I am even debating what dafc.net are doing anymore infact I even posted the below quote and cited the law as it stands

"Edit to say- since the law isn't clear as far as I aware then I don't blame admin for taking precaution"



What I am saying is in my opinion I don't think they should be liable in any way and the law as it stands is an ass. I do not think they should be liable for what other people post even if they run the website



Post Edited (Tue 10 Feb 17:22)
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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Crabbit  
Date:   Tue 10 Feb 16:51

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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Hunky Par  
Date:   Tue 10 Feb 17:19

Quote:

Crabbit, Tue 10 Feb 16:51

But how then do you hold folk accountable? A lot of folk on here choose to be anonymous


They can request ip addresses which the courts can ask the site for.

If someone's using a fake one then thats ups to the courts to deal with in a ideal world. The site owners have done all they can at a reasonable level.

You find criminals who are guilty not the next best person to satisfy finding someone imo (I know they person might not be a criminal but its the same logic)



Post Edited (Tue 10 Feb 17:28)
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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: The Lawyer  
Date:   Tue 10 Feb 17:37

PPP sorry for the delay I responding. I think you have pretty much answered your own question.

The law recognises that the owners of social media sites, and a forum like ours, have no control over what is posted. However, if they do become aware of an allegedly defamatory statements they need to act promptly if they wish to avoid potentially becoming a party to any subsequent legal action.

It would be highly unlikely that a Scottish court would award any substantial damages against a forum like ours, even if comments were clearly defamatory, provided the administrators acted reasonably promptly to remove the offending comments after the matter has been drawn to their attention.

Unfortunately this is by no means the first example of litigation against website owners.

Paraid
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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Hunky Par  
Date:   Tue 10 Feb 17:41

Thanks Lawyer. One last question if possible and relates to this part of your answer.


Quote:

The Lawyer, Tue 10 Feb 17:37


The law recognises that the owners of social media sites, and a forum like ours, have no control over what is posted. However, if they do become aware of an allegedly defamatory statements they need to act promptly if they wish to avoid potentially becoming a party to any subsequent legal action.



When you say become aware of a remark does that mean by complaint? Or do they have to make a judgement call themselves?

If its the latter it is surely a subjective opinion from someone (an admin person) who chances are doesn't have a law degree.

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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: The Lawyer  
Date:   Tue 10 Feb 19:14

Interesting question. There is no doubt that where a complaint has been made action is required.

It would be a heavy burden to require an administrator on say Facebook to read every post so there has to be some limit on what an administrator needs to do, in the absence of a specific complaint.

Nonetheless, if the site administrator sees a post which he or she reasonably believes to be potentially defamatory there may be justification in removing the post in some limited circumstances.

The classic example is where someone who believes he has been defamed e.g Lord McAlpine (or is determined to protect his reputation like Robert Maxwell) simply issues or threatens to issue writs against anyone who is in anyway involved. I believe Dot net was at one point in the not too distant past where it faced this prospect.

Paraid
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 Re: Blackpool to sue football forum
Topic Originator: Hunky Par  
Date:   Tue 10 Feb 21:36

Cheers

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