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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 2 May 16:14
In an effort to take my mind off what was a rather difficult day for me yesterday, I turned my thoughts more positively today to reflect on the wonderful little marvel that is this website.
It struck me that it is 25 years since I first made contact with other Pars fans out there on the Internet. So, I thought that now is probably as good a time as any to make a start recording the History of Dotnet.
Today, I have put together a bit of an essay of that history as I see it with some of my impressions along the way. But like all history, it is open to different interpretations, so I see this as the first step in an ongoing work in progress that should involve you all. Feel free to add your own impressions, so that we can build up the story before it gets lost to time.
I would ask Admin to ‘sticky’ this thread at some point so that it can be kept for Pars fans in the future.
The essay will follow this.
Oz
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 2 May 16:17
The History of Dotnet
It was 25 years ago, back in 1995, that Microsoft launched its revolutionary Windows 95 operating system, and for those of us with the desire and the money to keep up with the latest computer trends at home, it opened a whole new world of opportunity.
With the additional purchase of a 14.4k modem, suddenly the Internet became available at the click of an icon on our computer screen.
Those of you of a certain age will well remember the long agony we endured as we listened to the changing pitches and painful screeching sounds of the modem connecting with our phone line, allowing us entry into this new and exciting world. And once in, it was as if one’s life up to that point had been without colour.
While the Internet had been in existence for some decades by then, it was still primarily the preserve of academia, the military and government agencies around the world. In many respects, Windows 95 democratised the Internet and opened it up to folk like you and me.
In those days, there were a variety of search engines to explore the Internet. My early favourite was known as Alta Vista, and it was through this that I discovered I was not the only Dunfermline Athletic supporter online. To my utter amazement, I quickly realised that there might be as many as 20 Pars fans on the Internet!
A medical student at St Andrews University called Tracey Haldane had set up a website and email mailing list for Pars fans. And before I knew it, here was I, in Melbourne, Australia corresponding three or four times a day by email with fellow fans in Scotland, England, the US, even in East Asia.
I still remember some of those early dotnetters. There was Jeff Farrell in San Diego, John Morman in San Jose, Keith Franklin in Tokai, Japan. There was another Keith (Mackie), a chef who I think lived in Alloa, and Ronz (I don’t think I ever found out his second name!) who drove trains in and out of Edinburgh, and Stevie Starr, who later gained almost legendary status posting as My Lovely Horse here on dotnet. Other names I remember were Deek Margetts, Stephen Slater, Jean Cotter, Stuart Holland, Tony Mann, Jonathan Lord, Ross Arnott, Dennis Jubb, Michael Thomas, Tom Goodison and Colin McKean.
I would like to think that most of these fine people still post on here, though I don’t know their dotnet monikers.
Many of them, like Tracey, were uni students with easy access to the Internet. There were two or three up at Dundee Uni as I recall.
One, who I remember well, was Cammy Wilson (the last I heard he was in Shanghai, China). One hilarious night, Cammy frantically posted messages to say that he was a wee bit pissed and locked inside the university library. So being good dotnetters, several of us kept him company through the night with regular emails until he found release in the morning.
There was John Murphy in Aberdeen, who came from Crossgates and was a close pal of then Pars manager, Bert Paton. He worked for a North Sea oil company in Aberdeen. Murph had a way with words and would often come up with some poetry to review the latest happenings at East End Park. His closeness with Bert meant that, now and again, we dotnetters were aware of the goings-on at the club when others, including the press, were not. Naturally, we kept schtum about it.
In Dunfermline, we had the local butcher and renowned author of ‘Black & White Magic’, Douglas Scott. The always innovative Douglas introduced live email updates from matches, an absolute boon to those of us living overseas; a tradition carried on today with less clunky means by the wonderful Buffy.
I am quite proud of the fact that I was directly responsible for the first “official” meeting of dotnet Pars. It was on 22 March 1997 at the East Port Bar up the toon.
My then 13-years old daughter, Kirsty, and I flew over from Oz to Scotland to visit the grandparents and decided to take in the Pars v Celtic game that day. Ahead of the trip, I suggested that it might be an excellent idea to meet up with a few of the folk I had been corresponding with this past couple of years. To my delight, a dozen or so lads turned up, and we had a good time getting to know each other over a few pints. The game itself turned out to be a beauty. It was a 2-2 thriller, with Celtic’s centre-forward, Jorge Cadete, throwing a significant tantrum towards the end. I think it was his last game for the club.
Such was the novelty of our meeting that it got reported in the Dunfermline Press and the Daily Record. Thanks to Murph, Kirsty and I had got to meet Bert Paton before the match, and I gave him an Aussie hat with hanging corks designed to swat away the flies. The back page of the Record the following Tuesday carried a picture of Bert wearing the hat that I had given him with due mention of our internet group.
And so began a tradition of dotnet fan meetings that lasted for several years, most notably when Marv (Steaua) hosted several very well attended fan meets at her pub in the town.
From that point on, going to a Pars match became a somewhat different experience for dotnetters. Up to then, it had primarily been a solitary experience in the sense that it was you, perhaps a couple of schoolmates or friends or family, surrounded by a sea of strangers. As time went on and the online presence of supporters grew, it became far more common to be acquainted with many more supporters in the crowd. That surely was a very healthy and positive outcome.
Another development of note in those early days of the email message list was the creation of an internet fans’ football team, known as Parscelona. I think it was Johnnie MacDougall who set it up, with guys like Chris Ozog and Alan Maxwell in the team, with train-driver Ronz in goal. The idea was for online supporters to arrange games against each other and promote good relations between opposing fans. And it worked too. It was a terrific idea, though I don’t know if it is still going.
It was Douglas Scott who launched the original dotnet – dafc.net – on the Rivals network, I think. I would guess that this would be around 1998 or 1999. Someone will doubtless clarify that. From then on, activity on the Pars email message list started to fall off. I think the last message that I got from the list would be four or five years ago. Progress, I suppose, but sad in a way too, for looking back now the email message list was something special.
With the advent of dafc.net, we had a real-time message board. And for the first time, we saw anonymity become the modus operandi as each of us adopted a pseudonym. With that, we gradually saw a change in behaviour.
Where before, correspondents on email had communicated mainly civilly and courteously; over the years, there has been a noticeable decline in that respect. That is regrettable, of course. Perhaps it is as much a reflection of a generational change. Younger correspondents had been weaned on the Internet; it was a regular part of their daily lives, not a new-fangled novelty as it was in the early days for us, and consequently they were less cautious in their approach to online debate.
Today, a barbed comment does not have the shock value of 20 years ago.
Around about the turn of the century, as the club changed ownership and Jimmy Calderwood replaced Dick Campbell, many things at East End Park changed. There was a massive investment in the ground, and the club facilities were improved to meet modern day standards. International-class players that we would not usually have contemplated arrived to wear our new black and white pinstriped strip. We all felt we were on the cusp of something quite extraordinary.
As part of this development, the club’s official website got revamped, and Douglas Scott moved over from dafc.net to lead that change. In his place, Brian Duncan took over the fan website.
Under Jimmy Calderwood’s stewardship, the Pars improved markedly culminating in an appearance in our first Scottish Cup Final since 1968. Although we lost out to Celtic, our presence in the final ensured our entry into the 2004/05 UEFA Cup, our first taste of European Football since we lost to Anderlecht over two legs back in 1970.
After a summer break of growing anticipation and excitement, we learned that we were to play the Icelandic club, FH Hafnarfjordur. On the face of it, this was as good a draw as we could have hoped for, but we soon discovered there was an issue. It was a big one; the game would not be televised.
But we had by then come to learn that there was no end to the ingenuity of the Pars family and in our moment of need, up popped LuxPar with the answer. Incredibly, he negotiated and established, at considerable personal expense, the TV rights to the match in Iceland. And so, thanks to his efforts, Pars fans around the world got to see the game live from Reykjavik on their computer screens.
I honestly cannot remember if the second leg up in Perth was televised. My memory suggests that it was not and that I listened to live commentary from BBC Radio Scotland, but in common with most Pars fans that I know, I seem to have blanked that horror night out of my mind.
In the following years, more and more fans tuned in to dafc.net to get their updates on all things Pars. By the turn of the decade, the noticeboard was essential reading with popular posters such as Fu Manchu, Slim Hoolie, Honk and the previously mentioned My Lovely Horse playing a huge part in keeping us entertained and informed.
It was a glorious time for dafc.net. There were sublime moments when posts went off in zigzagging tangents and posters made quips that were so humorous, even the Queen at her most austere would have burst out laughing.
It surely was the zenith for the website, but sadly, its nadir was just around the corner.
By 2011/12, it was becoming increasingly clear that all was not well financially at East End and we were starting to get posts to that effect from some folk with inside information. There is no need to go over the ins and outs of this regrettable period, but with the benefit of hindsight we now know that the stance taken by the site administrators at the time was perhaps not the best one.
However, a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then. The schism that resulted in 2013 left painful wounds, but time is a great healer and it would be wonderful to see those old posters return to the site as their contribution is sorely missed.
The one thing that I have most appreciated from my 25 years on dotnet has been the people that I have met through it. I guess that over the years I have probably met and talked to 40 or 50 Pars fans in Scotland and around the world. It could well be more than that.
On my travels around Australia, I have made a point of meeting Pars fans in Melbourne, in Sydney, Adelaide, Perth and Townsville. I have caught up with Scots Pars travelling through Oz, guys like Par in Exile, and drank bottles of Singha beer with Rigger Al and ThaiPar in Bangkok. It has been a wonderful experience.
When all is said and done, this little old website is a very important means of genuinely uniting us. We shouldn’t take it, or the people who put it together, for granted. And to be honest, having recently seen how generously and lovingly the Pars family came to the support of one of our finest in his moment of personal tragedy, I don’t think we do take it for granted.
In recent years, Brian and his dedicated team have brought a new level of professionalism to the site. Let’s be honest, it is very well run. I would challenge anyone to find a better, more inclusive fan site in Scotland.
On matchdays, we have Buffy up the stand typing her commentary on her laptop so that fans everywhere can keep up with the action on and off the pitch, while Jordan, Brian and the others are perched up in the gantry providing overseas fans like myself with a live feed of the match over Pars TV.
I can hardly wait to see them back in action again. Let’s hope it is not too long until they are.
Thank you dotnet.
:)
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Topic Originator: Par
Date: Sat 2 May 16:33
I wish that we could all come together again like the old .net. Let bygones be bygone and move on together. The site has never been the same since the split.
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Topic Originator: 1970par
Date: Sat 2 May 16:45
Keith Mackie is not a Chef (he does enjoy food though)
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Topic Originator: General Zod
Date: Sat 2 May 16:52
This forum was a good laugh around 18 years ago or so. It’s nothing at all like it used to be and it’ll never be as good again. You look at this website once or twice a day for a week and there’s nothing really new or interesting. It’s been that way since the mass exodus a few years back. A real shame too.
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Topic Originator: wetherby
Date: Sat 2 May 17:04
Very interesting post OzPar. I recognise some of the names from years past.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sat 2 May 18:02
Quote:
General Zod, Sat 2 May 16:52
This forum was a good laugh around 18 years ago or so. It’s nothing at all like it used to be and it’ll never be as good again. You look at this website once or twice a day for a week and there’s nothing really new or interesting. It’s been that way since the mass exodus a few years back. A real shame too.
I only discovered Dotnet in 2006. Before that, my IT skills were probably too basic. I've mostly enjoyed being on here, but not the horrible time when the club almost died and there was lots of in fighting among our members, culminating in the split. Calling it a "mass exodus" is a tad hyperbolic. I think a good number of those who left Dotnet have been lost altogether, rather than to the EEB, which is an excellent forum but sparsely populated.
Well done to Ozpar for starting such an interesting thread. I hope you're feeling much more upbeat after your low yesterday.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Sat 2 May 18:09
Very good post Oz.
I think I discovered the Internet around 1999 and of course one of the first things I did was to search for Pars related stuff which is when I found the old version of DotNet.
It was great to be able to chat and read accounts from fans old and young, far and wide about their experiences.
There must, as time went on, have been literally hundreds of regular contributors and some have sadly passed on since.
I think 'granda' from Glasgow was one of the notable ones who's loss was profoundly felt on here many years ago.
It was before Facebook and twitter etc so it really felt like an important place to come to get any information Pars related and really enjoyed the many characters, many of whom left or were kicked out by various admin down the years.
A forum isn't about the people who run it but by the people who are in it to make it work and enjoy the various opinions, the wind up merchants, the knowledgeable and the various others.
One of the greatest threads which I believe is still on the sticky forum was when our club's existence was hanging from a thread and Lord Woolman, I think his name was had to make the decision as to our survival as Gavin Masterton went to court post administration to keep vital assets to himself which would have destroyed us for certain.
As was said, some posters, honk notably among others, had shed some light on behind the scenes Skullduggery long before and this forum went into total meltdown as we seemed to be only fed information via the club itself beforehand.
This was/is why this forum called DotNet was so vital in saving our club.
It's part in this cannot be downplayed even slightly.
It would be great to see old characters back here again but feel that ship has sailed but at the same time say it is a great testament to contributers here, it is still going over two decades later.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Sat 2 May 18:11
Oz from the very day you speak about
And reference to the email meeting too 😀
____________________
contact: email me
File Share: https://share2.co.uk
ParsTV: https://ParsTV.co.uk
Post Edited (Sat 02 May 18:13)
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Topic Originator: thaldane
Date: Sat 2 May 18:44
This is bringing back great memories and yes I am the Tracey Haldane mentioned above but I wasn't clever enough to be a student - just a plain old admin/it person at Edinburgh Uni who realised quickly there were lots of fans all around the world that would benefit from hearing from others and so the email group started - I left my job at Edinburgh Uni and passed it over to St Andrews Uni as at the time I had no idea how I would be able to continue it. Of course the first thing I bought was a computer and a modem so I wasn't missing for long. My memory isnt very good but I do remember a meeting before walking to East End Park. I do often wonder what happened to a lot of the people from that time. I also still look at the forum but don't post often.
Post Edited (Sat 02 May 18:49)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 2 May 19:26
I recall the likes of Marchmont Par and Peter. I don't know if either if still posting under a different name or not.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Sat 2 May 19:56
Superb OzPar hope you are well
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sat 2 May 21:11
Tracey Haldane,
You were a pioneer so don't play down what you accomplished. You were the first woman in DAFC space same as Gagarin was the first man in space. ( Two weeks before our 1961 Cup victory)
From Moscow I salute you with my vodka.
sammer
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Topic Originator: Townsvillepar
Date: Sat 2 May 21:21
Great post OzPar. I still look at dotnet at least once per day. It is a crucial part of my support for the Pars, and keeps me informed! I hope you are well, and also hope to see you back in Townsville soon.
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Topic Originator: 1970par
Date: Sat 2 May 21:59
I was also at University,
janitor!
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Sat 2 May 22:20
Great Post OzPar - incredible to read the history. In some ways I still yearn for the scrolling single message board, and the posters who don't post here any more..
SanguinePar and slim_hoolie (KGB) are two I miss the most, but there are plenty of others. There was one hilarious poster who always posted their messages with rAndOm CaPiTaL LeTteRs in every word, but I can't for the life of me remember who it was.
The capitalisation has gone - I wonder if the poster still posts,
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Sun 3 May 14:42
Good thread Oz and thanks for the compliments. That’s an extra bun on yer plate for yer next visit. 😊
I joined in 2003. It was great to meet up with fellow pars fans, and I’ve retained great friendships with a few posters since then.
I’d never been on a message board and I’d no idea how to conduct myself or indeed converse with people I’d never met. It was a challenge and a learning curve.
When the gaffer handed me the updates baton in 2007 there were big shoes to fill. I laughed every week at the retorts of Fu Manchu and Socks, and I was really nervous. 13 years later it’s been the best thing I’ve ever been involved in. Confidence wise it’s been the making of me on different levels. The fans, the club, the pundits, the away days oot = all wonderful. I’m looking forward to the new season when it starts again.
Mon the Pars fans x
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: kingseat par
Date: Sun 3 May 15:39
Nice read. I was one of the lucky ones who had free internet access at Dundee University as I was employed there and signed up to Dotnet in 98. No dial up, absolute luxury! I spent far too much time using it to read about the Pars rather than molecular biology. Happy days.
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Topic Originator: Parfect68
Date: Sun 3 May 16:31
Quote:
kingseat par, Sun 3 May 15:39
Nice read. I was one of the lucky ones who had free internet access at Dundee University as I was employed there and signed up to Dotnet in 98. No dial up, absolute luxury! I spent far too much time using it to read about the Pars rather than molecular biology. Happy days.
Lol, me too Kingseat, was working in the School of Pharmacy at Liverpool John Moores University and spent way too much time on dotnet when I should have been preparing the future generations of pharmacists! Sure the classes of 98-2002 had their Uni education enriched by golden nuggets of info from dotnet.
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Topic Originator: kingseat par
Date: Sun 3 May 19:36
Parfect68
kingseat par
Nice read. I was one of the lucky ones who had free internet access at Dundee University as I was employed there and signed up to Dotnet in 98. No dial up, absolute luxury! I spent far too much time using it to read about the Pars rather than molecular biology. Happy days.
Lol, me too Kingseat, was working in the School of Pharmacy at Liverpool John Moores University and spent way too much time on dotnet when I should have been preparing the future generations of pharmacists! Sure the classes of 98-2002 had their Uni education enriched by golden nuggets of info from dotnet.
Lol. Absolutely Par68. I'm sure there were Uni staff with much worse search histories than ours.
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Topic Originator: yorkiepar
Date: Sun 3 May 19:40
Honestly can't remember when I first got hooked - think it was probably the early noughties. But have certainly followed (and enjoyed) it since early days.
Like others I miss some of the more informed and interesting posters - Marchmont Par, McCaig's Tower and, yes, Honk all spring to mind.
Love Socks's contributions - always well written and meticulously crafted. Oh yes, you too, GG!
Hate ALL the trolls, many of whom seem thankfully to have gone quiet of late.
Prejudices aside, I wish it many more years of existence.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sun 3 May 19:52
Does anyone know if Raymond ( Fu Manchu ) and Stevie ( My Lovely Horse ) are around and well?
Stevie could tell a good story about the pair of us in hospitality at Livingston...
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: wetherby
Date: Sun 3 May 19:55
I saw/spoke to Fu in Charlie D's last season or perhaps was it the one before.
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Topic Originator: Grant
Date: Sun 3 May 20:05
Used to have Fu on Facebook but he seems to have deleted it.
Very decent guy.
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Topic Originator: StevenPar77
Date: Sun 3 May 21:20
Quote:
Grant, Sun 3 May 20:05
Used to have Fu on Facebook but he seems to have deleted it.
Very decent guy.
Still on FB but under a different name.
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Topic Originator: Ben,D.A
Date: Mon 4 May 01:53
Fu manchu.
Penalty shoot out and we all know what happened.
Fu manshoe.
Aye .. the auld days.
only 11 make the team,the rest can just but dream.
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Topic Originator: Keith FJ
Date: Tue 5 May 04:00
Tracey! Great to see your name up here, and thank you for the memories OzPar! I remember meeting in a pub near Dens Park, I think prior to the Challenge Cup Final (?) that is the last time I remember going there.
The history goes back even further. Around 1990, when the only people who really had internet access were students, there was a discussion board on the Edinburgh University server called "eduni.football", a few Pars fans found each other on it, and Tracey got us organised into one of these new fangled "mailing lists". This is probably where things started, and things grew from there. I remember a few meetings in the East Port bar, and a marvellous first football match at the Jack Kane Centre between Parcelona and Edina Hibs in 1996 (?). Things changed over the years, particularly when the internet could be accessed from homes, and new fangled things like websites appeared, which is where we are now.
There were originally an inordinate number of Keiths on the list, and we distinguished ourselves by where we were from, hence "Keith fae Alloa" and "Keith Fae Japan" (hence I'm Keith FJ).
I've accidentally ended up living all over the place, although I am back in Japan now in Tokyo, where I have been for the past 9 years. I get back home about twice a year and able to see most of the original crew loitering in the same place under the Norrie at half time.
Sorry to say I never actually met Tracey in person, but (bowing deeply as they do here) domo arigatou gozaimasu (thank you very much).
Hope everyone is keeping safe and well, and I look forward to my next trip once the current situation is resolved.
Keith FJ (TokyoPar)
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Topic Originator: RhinoPars
Date: Thu 7 May 20:13
Thanks Oz,
I think Dotnet has been a godsend for us expats over the years providing a way to keep in touch with the club from afar. I too miss some of the good posters from the past, but there are still some good posters who consistently write interesting and well thought out posts about issues and games. Dotnet also has its own living football encyclopedia and quizmaster extraordinaire Sammer!
Thanks to Brian for his efforts to keep it going.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Fri 8 May 13:35
Great to hear from you again, Keith. Yes, I remember catching up with you in Whites Bar before the Challenge Cup Final in Dundee.
I am so pleased that you and Tracey have been able to fill the gaps in the really early history of dotnet and take it right back to its roots.
So we are probably celebrating our 30th Anniversary this year. That's just incredible!
:)
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