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Topic Originator: Bertiesback
Date: Tue 4 Dec 19:20
Anyone else watching the debate in Parliament at present must be aghast at what is now apparently deemed acceptable Labour members of parliament.
No f-----g wonder this country is in a mess when you look at the thick as mince idiots who represent these labour constituencies.
We may as well close the doors and shut the place down. It has been one of the most despairing televised hours I can remember - they actually make May look good.
An abhorrent opposition and an incompetent and not fit for purpose negotiation team led by a remainer (May) has stitched up the citizens of the UK.
Is it any wonder we have been outwitted by the EU?
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Tue 4 Dec 20:36
Not very often I'll agree with you granted, but you're absolutely spot on.
Looking increasingly likely that Brexit is never going to happen.
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Topic Originator: back oh the net
Date: Tue 4 Dec 23:11
Quote:
Captain Desmond Fancey, Tue 04 Dec 20:36
Not very often I'll agree with you granted, but you're absolutely spot on.
Looking increasingly likely that Brexit is never going to happen.
In all honesty I hope you are right and it all goes t!ts up for may and co as from a totally selfish point of view I would genuinely be fearing for my job as a good 70% of the work force across all 3 shifts where I work are migrant workers what happens if and when they all have to leave?
Come on ye pars ⚽️
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Topic Originator: WORST
Date: Wed 5 Dec 06:21
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Wed 5 Dec 07:01
Quote:
WORST, Wed 5 Dec 06:21
I really don’t think brexit will happen, I’ve alway thought this decision would somehow get reversed.
We can only hope.
Me too, the utter panic when the leave vote came through was clear as day, not to mention the confusion amongst the Tories who desperately wanted a little dictatorship tax haven but didn't seem to want hated for it.
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Topic Originator: DRFC_no1
Date: Wed 5 Dec 14:02
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Wed 5 Dec 14:39
Given that 17.4 million people voted to Leave and less than 1 million people are unemployed in the UK I'd suggest you go back to studying basic arithmetic.
Hopefully you'll do better at that than you do studying people.
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Topic Originator: DRFC_no1
Date: Wed 5 Dec 15:09
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Topic Originator: Bertiesback
Date: Wed 5 Dec 16:05
I voted leave and these points were minor concerns compared to getting back sovereignty.
I just do not think it is natural to let another country or group of countries dictate policy in my country. I wouldn't let the Americans do it so why would I let the French and the Germans?
Your attempt to appear virtuous regarding free movement (which is absolutely bonkers imo) and getting rid of migrants apparently doesn't stretch to respect for the unemployed.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Wed 5 Dec 17:30
We aren't really being dictated to though. We have input into the laws that get made so we're governing by consensus with Europe in most cases. The commonality of those laws enhances business, environmental protections, law enforcement, scientific research, health care and offers protection to individuals living in other countries etc etc.
We also hold a veto on a lot of issues so for most crucial issues, we could reject a proposal if we didn't like it. In other cases where the veto isn't applicable we could influence other Member States to vote against a measure if we didn't like it. As noted in the video on my other thread it's something like 2% of the laws in the EU we voted against that we are subject to.
We're also not completely taking back our sovereignty. Whilst many on the Leave side are trumpeting WTO rules, their rules aren't governed by UK courts, we'll still be subject to their tribunal decisions on trade matters (have a look at New Zealand and lamb) and any deal with the US is going to involve Investor State Dispute Settlement which is even worse.
Personally I'm more bothered about the quality of the laws being passed than the nationality of the people making them (main reason I'd have voted Yes). I'd rather be Governed pretty much by any of Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, Germany, Finland, Iceland etc etc rather than Westminster. Leaving magnifies the right wing bams ability to turn is into some neo cons wet dream. I don't want us anywhere near that. Working class people aren't going to benefit from Brexit.
Freedom of movement is terrific and I genuinely don't understand why anyone could think it's bonkers bar some of the issues around not being able to block certain categories of criminals from entry into a Member State which is definitely not an unreasonable concern.
I also don't think many people have any direct experience of how crap the immigration system is for non EU migrants. People seem to think it's as simple as popping in an application and hey presto in you come. It's an administrative nightmare and subject to all kinds of caps in place that can change on a tit for tat basis.
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Topic Originator: WORST
Date: Wed 5 Dec 20:44
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Wed 5 Dec 22:31
A partially aroused racist 😉
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Topic Originator: WORST
Date: Thu 6 Dec 07:30
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Topic Originator: Bertiesback
Date: Thu 6 Dec 12:26
Londonparsfan, I don't want my country to be governed by consensus of other countries.
I doubt the citizens of these other countries enjoy it either. Basically I don't trust the system in the same way as I don't trust WM in a Scotland context.
From what I have read about the veto, it is only a temporary measure which can by process be eventually overruled - am I wrong?
If we are not completely taking back our sovereignty then it is not what I and many others voted for and I suppose can only reflect the incompetence of May and the negotiators.
If it were one or the other I would agree with your point on Westminster.
I don't think Scotland has ever had a decent shake (ever) from WM, mostly we have got what we fought and worked for but I see it as being worse now because, there is something third rate in the calibre of people that our democratic system combined with a lack of written constitution and a malevolent Establishment, is producing in WM. We need to get out as soon as possible.
Freedom of movement MUST be controlled imo. This is a small Island and is already one of the most densely populated countries in the World. We need to regulate who is allowed to live here based on what the country requires. Our housing stock, health and education systems and public services are all under a terrific strain (once more I would argue this is due to how the UK has been run for multiple decades) and proper controls are essential imo. This of course would not apply to visitors, educational stays and holidaymakers.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Thu 6 Dec 14:14
Gid.LPF.
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Topic Originator: Bamba-Daft
Date: Thu 6 Dec 19:48
Quote:
DRFC_no1, Wed 05 Dec 14:02
Most ironic thing is half the folk that have voted to leave are probably jobless, (semi)racists that want immigrants out of the country, not realising that without migrants then half the country would come to a complete halt.
Up there with the most ridiculous things I’ve read on here and I’ve read some amount of sh*te. 17.4 million people.
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Topic Originator: QPR_Par
Date: Sat 8 Dec 03:49
Topic Originator: back oh the net
Date: Tue 4 Dec 23:11
"I would genuinely be fearing for my job as a good 70% of the work force across all 3 shifts where I work are migrant workers what happens if and when they all have to leave?"
I've no idea what industry you work in back oh the net, I was in warehousing in the Midlands and I reckon that over 90% of the shop floor workers were immigrants. Our distribution networks would grind to a halt without them.
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Topic Originator: Bertiesback
Date: Sat 8 Dec 10:22
Or maybe they would pay better wages.
This country is not falling apart because the low paid are earning too much. On the contrary.
It's time to recognise the value of a hard day's work at any level.
Only through upping the living standards of the poorly paid will we ever get out of this mess and attain a country we can all be proud of.
Post Edited (Sat 08 Dec 10:25)
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