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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Wed 12 Dec 08:48
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46535739
So once again the Conservative Party are putting their own self interests ahead of the country's and a vote of no confidence in Theresa May is happening tonight.
Don't know when buffoons the likes of Mogg and Johnson will learn. All they're really achieving here is increasing the likelihood of a Corbyn led government. I actually think that would cause the country more harm than any "No Deal" Brexit ever would.
Personally I hope the PM wins, and wins it well and puts these clowns firmly back in their place.
The good old days
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Wed 12 Dec 09:56
You really cannot be serious. You want more of May??? Jeeez, I doubt the country could take that.
If I were a betting man, which I am not, I would tip Davis as PM with Rees-Mogg as Chancellor/Brexit negotiator. That would probably work.
Mordaunt and Javid look decent contenders, but please please please, not Amber Rudd!
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Wed 12 Dec 10:14
Davis had his chance years ago to lead the party but was comfortably beaten by Cameron (let's not forget that toad's role in this debacle).
He also showed his lack of ability in initial negotiations with Europe. He looked (and reportedly was) completely out of his depth.
There's a real dearth of talent in the Commons right now and it's difficult to see who can step up to the plate really. I do still believe that May is just the best of a very bad bunch.
The good old days
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Topic Originator: Bertiesback
Date: Wed 12 Dec 10:16
Some people you can beat with a stick all day long and their only complaint is they hope it's not too tiring for the stick wielder.
Fancy seems to fall into that category. :)
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Topic Originator: DRFC_no1
Date: Wed 12 Dec 10:25
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Wed 12 Dec 13:20
Struggling to think of any genuine leaders in either the Conservative or Labour party that I'd confidently say could run the country just now. Just swarms of the worst type of insincere career politicians
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Wed 12 Dec 13:39
They could change the leader of the party every day until Hogmanay and it won't make a blind bit of difference.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 12 Dec 15:32
I agree. The Brexit iceberg is ahead and the options remain the same: a negotiated deal such as May has been trying to achieve so that we steer round the problem; return back to port under a new captain at the helm; or crash into the iceberg with Johnson or Mogg at the wheel.
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Topic Originator: eastendalloapar
Date: Wed 12 Dec 19:19
I have a fear that Corbin will be the winner.
matt forsyth
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Topic Originator: Bertiesback
Date: Wed 12 Dec 19:43
DRFC no1 why did we get all the way to agreement of A DEAL with nobody outside the actual negotiating team apparently knowing what concessions were being made?
This is the real problem. We give a remainer carte blanche to negotiate a deal in apparent secrecy. She immediately seems to have discarded NO DEAL so of course the EU heave a sigh of relief and go into bully mode.
Is it any wonder no one is happy.
That is a model for disaster.
I am now at the stage where I want someone to tell the EU to go f---k themselves, we are leaving. Let's see how the Dutch and the Danes like no flowers or bulbs coming in or any fish for their massive fish processing factories.
Let's see how VW, Mercedes, BMW workers like being laid off. Let's see how the Spanish like it when we import our fruit from the USA.
Was May aware of:
"Italy is pushing Europe to the brink of another economic crisis – but its problems are nothing new."
"Could it be that Europe is facing yet another existential crisis, six years after financial meltdown threatened the eurozone's collapse?
This week the third- and fourth-largest economies in the eurozone -- Italy and Spain -- experienced political earthquakes. Italy will now have a government of insurgents with little faith in the "European project." Spain will have an odd coalition united only in ousting the unpopular conservative Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy. Spanish voters likely face their third election in three years."
In Germany:
In an article on German reunification which is now causing friction.
"The German leaders themselves are well aware that they must tread very carefully. The intention is to become a major power, but not a great one. Germany is highly dependent on exports, and poor in raw materials, it is said."
In France.
"With France teetering on the brink of a full-blown disaster threatening to destabilize one of the European Union’s leading democracies, French President Emmanuel Macron on Monday pledged to raise minimum wage next month and cut taxes for pensioners.
Unrest in Poland and Hungary:
Within the EU Hungary’s Fidesz party has been taking the lead, reshaping its constitution to create what its leader, Viktor Orbán, openly boasts is an “illiberal democracy”. The aim is a one-party state committed to root out anti-Christian values, with no effective checks and balances, controlling the media and a network of oligarchs who owe their fortunes to government contracts. It stinks to high heaven, but Orbán has two great cards – being in the frontline of Muslim immigration and a fragile economy. He wins elections, holding the supermajority in the Budapest parliament that allows him to do what he has done.
Since 2015, Poland’s Law and Justice party has been taking its lead from Hungary even though it has no parallel supermajority. There has been the same weakening of the constitutional court, the same gerrymandering and the same party takeover of state broadcasting. The aim is also the same: to build a nationalist community resisting multiculturalism and immigration, asserting Christian values and boosting the economy through contracts to favoured insiders.
What I am saying is Brussels is not the Nirvana that is painted. They need the UK to fold and to pay up as well as to keep buying their goods and services. This has all been ignored by May because frankly she doesn't want to bargain hard, she wanted from the start to stay as much in the EU as she could.
And remember this doesn't even cover the £39 Billion.
Post Edited (Wed 12 Dec 19:59)
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Topic Originator: DRFC_no1
Date: Wed 12 Dec 21:03
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Topic Originator: WORST
Date: Wed 12 Dec 21:07
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Wed 12 Dec 21:30
Won...and Labour even told her how to😂
Politics😂
Democracy😂
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Thu 13 Dec 07:03
Now? Constant sniping from Rees-Mogg et al. It is now clear she doesn't have enough support to get her deal through.
This was simply to force her hand after she attempted to delay her vote.
My money is on a delay and we won't be leaving by the end of March.
The right of the Tory party won't want to force a Brexit with no deal.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Thu 13 Dec 07:51
I can't help but wonder if May suddenly "found" those "lost" files yesterday....
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Thu 13 Dec 09:10
I think last night's confidence vote has removed Hard Brexit from the equation.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Thu 13 Dec 10:08
Stealing this from a random on Twitter and Facebook:
You had a vote on this two years ago. She won. You can't just ask for another one because you don't like the result.
May means May.
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Topic Originator: wetherby
Date: Thu 13 Dec 11:33
Interesting and rather ironic that the hurdle rate in the Confidence vote was 50% +1 of her electorate-the number of Conservative Party member MPs eligible to vote.
If only someone had thought to include a hurdle rate in the monumentous,once in a generation referendum on Brexit rather than allowing 37.4% of the electorate ,yes just over one in three, determine the fate of the UK. Coincidentally almost 37% of the Tory MPs declared they had no confidence in Mrs May.
That's why we ought to have a second poll with a minimum percentage of the electorate required to vote in favour , whether that be 40% or even 50% of the electorate.
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Topic Originator: eastendalloapar
Date: Thu 13 Dec 13:19
Wetherby, the people that didn't vote were IMO to lazy to vote.
matt forsyth
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Thu 13 Dec 17:47
Completely agree with eastendalloapar.
Anybody who didn't vote gave up their right to complain about the result the minute they decided to sit on their bottom instead of going out.
What I have found ironic today is that the likes of Mogg saying May should go because she didn't win a decisive victory (even though she got 63% of the vote) but he thinks at 52% for Brexit that WAS a decisive victory.
Used to have a lot of time for him, but I see him now and literally want to kick my TV in.
The good old days
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Fri 14 Dec 08:50
Take the point about hurdle rates but you can only count the votes cast. I don't know but would be surprised if many governments have been in power with over 50% of the population total voting for them.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Fri 14 Dec 09:29
In Australia voting is compulsory and taken very seriously as a civil right and responsibility. On balance, I think it is a very good thing, even though I got fined a sizeable sum of money (over $100 IIRC) for failing to vote in a local council election!
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Topic Originator: wetherby
Date: Fri 14 Dec 11:32
When you compare the EU referendum with a General Election you aren't comparing apples with apples. GEs come round every 4-5 years you get a chance to change regularly. The referendum presented a monumentous once in a generation change . Back in the 70s there was a referendum on Scottish devolution and a threshold was set at 40% of the electorate had to vote Yes to be carried.
If politicians had the foresight then it should have been the same for Brexit. Cameron must take a lot of the blame for this the way he tried to bow to his bunch of little Englanders.
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Fri 14 Dec 11:47
Who exactly are these "Little Englanders" you refer to ? The demographics of the Leave vote are considerably more varied than people seem to think.
One thing I will agree on however is that Cameron has to take an awful lot of the blame for how all of this has panned out. Was really irritating to see him on the news this week saying he doesn't regret holding the vote. Easy for him to say that when he's swanning around earning a fortune on the Public Speaking tour.
The good old days
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