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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Sun 11 Aug 16:35
Thought this was a really interesting article:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2019/08/scottish-labour-must-stop-treating-nationalism-virus-be-cured?fbclid=IwAR0v-REBjtJLjs4kmRL-Afg4f5ioAZ5jKzV4ZmXZkj6T0RgxoPlB5eOGv08
I've always thought that they've had a lergely indefensible position when it comes to Independence because many of the policies they claim to support could be guaranteed in a written constitution. Whinging about progressivism instead of supporting an almost unilaterally supported univeralist approach to public services I think has switched a lot of voters off to them. Then there's Anas Sarwar who is determined that we're all intolerant and Islamophobic. Nothing against the man really, but I honestly don't think having an English leader will be good for them, despite his years in Scotland.
Is there anything actually going well for Labour right now?
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Sun 11 Aug 18:18
Although far too late now, I've always thought Labour missed a huge trick by not having Full Fiscal Autonomy as a policy for Scotland.
It would have satisfied both unionists and nationalists prior to any notion of the first indyref and would have saved Labour's skin in Scotland from their annihilation.
Scottish Labour's better together stance with the Tories has finished them.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Sun 11 Aug 20:28
Definitely see where you come from there AAPS. I reckon with that approach though, the risk would have been Scotland and Scots having the full picture of the national finances - I might be a bit biased but I think this would have quite clearly shown us as net contributors. Having full taxation powers would also have allowed us to compete with England for investment which they would be against and likewise not granting full tax powers would undermine policy. The comment in that article about George Foulkes claiming the SNP making public services markedly better in Scotland has been shown to be correct in my opinion when you consider the state of the system in England with all these Trusts running things, albeit I think the average Scot isn't overly aware of the situation in England otherwise I very much doubt the current arguments re Education etc against the SNP would gain much traction. That said, that doesn't excuse the failure of centralisation of Fire, Police and Ambulance etc. The proof I'd say is that a lot of English folk are aware that we hsve it better - first thing you hear from a lot of them is them bugrudging tuition free University and free prescriptions etc. Giving full fiscal autonomy I think would run the "risk" of that gap increasing and letting Scots see that perhaps things are more manageable on the small scale.
The other point would be that empowering Holyrood further will eventually lead to the question of "Why pay for Westminster just to decide monetary, military and foreign policy"? Likewise I think we're at the point where removing powers from Holyrood is regarded as unacceptable so we have a bit of a Juggernaut that won't stop until it is fully empowered!
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sun 11 Aug 22:41
It’s hard to disagree with anything written here so far. If independence is achieved then the position taken by the Labour Party and its associate groupings will become very important, given that Scotland is a country whose political compass naturally falls to the left of centre.
For almost 40 years the Scottish electorate as a whole has made it clear it would rather answer to Tam Dalyell, Dick Douglas, Robin Cook, John McCallion, Margo McDonald, John Smith and Dennis Canavan than the likes of George Robertson, Helen Liddell, Wendy Alexander or Jim Murphy. It would rather have outliers like Mick McGahey, Jimmy Reid, Chris Harvie and even Ruth Davidson speaking on their behalf than a tawdry group of faux socialists bent on careerism. I think that speaks well of them.
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