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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Fri 23 Aug 16:56
stood in five FPTP elections in its existence and has lost all five to pro-remain candidates.
All five constituencies voted Leave in the referendum.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 23 Aug 17:50
Then the electorate can make its voice heard at the next general election. I expect by then we will have left the EU and the leave parties will be punished accordingly.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Fri 23 Aug 17:56
Not that I'm a brexit supporter (far from it) but my initial reaction to that is that I'd love to see the results of those 5 and what the representation would be like under pr and not fptp?
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Topic Originator: donj
Date: Fri 23 Aug 21:38
Parliament UK would be far different if it was pr.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 23 Aug 21:41
Yep the likes of ukip would have a significant number of mp's since they get more votes than the snp.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: donj
Date: Fri 23 Aug 21:51
Immediate snp attack comes.By the way SNP get a higher percentage than the governing party of the UK gets.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 23 Aug 23:22
Donj I'm an snp party member but I won't close my eyes and ears to facts. More people voted for ukip in the last general election than voted for the snp. 'Ahh but the snp weren't standing in constituencies in England and Wales' you'll say.
Correct and if they had then their share of the vote would plummet.
Anyway the point I was making was if PR was used at Westminster , and used fairly, then the many millions who voted for ukip would have far higher representation at Westminster than the 1.5 million who vote snp.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sat 24 Aug 00:07
Indeed.
And lots of other voices would be heard too.
FPTP has given us some messed up results over the years.
Parties winning an outright majority with vote shares in the 30-odd% bracket and a landslide in the low 40s isnae right. Neither is parties getting 5-15% usually having no representation - unless, like the SNP, they have a concentrated, localised following (i.e. Regional Interest parties)
It is theoretically possible, under our system, to get over 50% of the popular vote but fail to win a majority in parliamen (say parliament has 100 seats for ease):
1. Party A wins 49 of the seats by a big majority over Party B, averaging well over 50% of the votes cast each time). Party C finishes a distant third.
2. Party C wins the other 51 seats after recounts, with a slim majority over party B. Party C barely registers, or doesn't stand in these seats. Party A gets around 45-49% in these seats.
3. When the national total is counted it turns out that Party A got 55% and the Opposition Benches, Party B got 10% and zero seats and Party C got 40% and a majority.
Not likely, I admit, but the fact that it is possible just shows how messed up our "democracy" is.
Mind you, at least we don't have to deal with Faithless electors, even if God is a DJ.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sat 24 Aug 01:43
The Lib Dems failed to make PR legislation, or some similar system, a condition of their ill-fated alliance with the Conservative Party. They had been campaigning for it as long as I can remember but once they could walk the corridors of power it seemed to become less of a cause than, for example, imposing austerity measures.
I’ve no time for the foghorn politics of Farage and his cynical millionaires, however under a fairer system his original UKIP Party would have been represented at Westminster and perhaps, just perhaps, that would have made it possible to have a political debate about the UK and its relationship with the EU rather than a shouting match. The Holyrood Parliament has had Greens, Independents and SSP members under a PR type system and has, I think, been all the healthier for it.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Sat 24 Aug 09:37
Quote:
sammer, Sat 24 Aug 01:43
The Lib Dems failed to make PR legislation, or some similar system, a condition of their ill-fated alliance with the Conservative Party. They had been campaigning for it as long as I can remember but once they could walk the corridors of power it seemed to become less of a cause than, for example, imposing austerity measures.
I’ve no time for the foghorn politics of Farage and his cynical millionaires, however under a fairer system his original UKIP Party would have been represented at Westminster and perhaps, just perhaps, that would have made it possible to have a political debate about the UK and its relationship with the EU rather than a shouting match. The Holyrood Parliament has had Greens, Independents and SSP members under a PR type system and has, I think, been all the healthier for it.
Didn't the Lib Dems force a referendum on the subject and lost?
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Sat 24 Aug 11:56
The lib dems did get a vote on changing the voting system as part of their coalition agreement... But showed their inexperience as got completely outflanked by tories and what ended up going to people wasnt any form of pr, but some pihs alternative vote that nobody wanted
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Sat 24 Aug 15:36
By election results do not necessarily mean anything at a GE.
There has been tactical voting so far by Remain supporting parties hence the recent results.
Leave vote is being split between Brexit Party and the Conservatives.
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Sat 24 Aug 22:31
“ the 1.5 million who vote SNP”
Not at the last GE, it was less than a million.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 24 Aug 23:05
Yep and ukips was less than 600k.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: donj
Date: Sat 24 Aug 23:50
If we count votes we need to count in areas that the parties have candidates so in Scotland,even adding the votes of every other unionist party I'd guess it is SNP win without a doubt.Greens are not unionist in case anybody tries to add them as that.
No point in saying the Brexit party got more votes in English constituencies as they lost in the ones here where the SNP compete.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 25 Aug 00:01
Yeah which is fine in fptp voting but we are talking about pr and how much representation each party should have in a Westminster parliament if pr was used.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Sun 25 Aug 07:45
More people voted UKIP than the SNP in the last election...Nope. You contradict yourself TOWK
Millions vote UKIP..Nope. Another contradiction.
SNP higher percentage than the governing party..Nope, May actually polled higher than Cameron though she lost seats. 42% over the UK. SNP 37% in Scotland
Brexit party haven’t contested a GE yet and may never do so. But if there is a Brexit showdown GE this year they would do pretty well one supposes. Couple of million?
On a PR basis for Scotland the last GE would have given SNP 22 seats, Tories 17,
Labour 16 and LibDems 4.
Not seen a PR breakdown for the UK as a whole.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 25 Aug 08:30
Yeah you got me Mario. I was referring to the numbers from the 2015 general election. I was forgetting that we had another one in 2017. Over four million voted for ukip in 2015.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Sun 25 Aug 11:54
Wow that UKIP vote absolutely collapsed from 2015.
3.8 m to 0.6 m and 12.7% share of the vote down to 1.8%. They be all Brexit Partyers ready for the call now I guess!
Post Edited (Sun 25 Aug 11:59)
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 25 Aug 12:03
The numbers are quite interesting actually. Snp lost approximately 500 thousand voters between those two elections. Makes me wonder how many people voted snp as a way out of Europe. By the time of 2017 they no longer felt the need to vote snp and perhaps, especially in the North East, went back to voting Conservative.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Sun 25 Aug 17:31
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Sun 25 Aug 12:03
The numbers are quite interesting actually. Snp lost approximately 500 thousand voters between those two elections. Makes me wonder how many people voted snp as a way out of Europe. By the time of 2017 they no longer felt the need to vote snp and perhaps, especially in the North East, went back to voting Conservative.
Probably some truth in that but let's not pretend the 2015 result was not a true reflection of SNP support , rather a direct reaction to the Better Together collaboration the year before which even no voters were appalled by, especially the Labour Party.
2017 probably gave a more real description of the political map of Scotland.
Unionist Labour switched over to Tory party or Libs.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Wed 28 Aug 22:18
SNP will be back up to 2015 GE figures for the next GE.....October I believe.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Wed 28 Aug 23:31
Nah that will never happen again. I'd expect the lib dems to take some seats from the snp.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Thu 29 Aug 10:19
The Brexit Party will soon become irrelevant.
However, much like UKIP its job will have been complete.
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