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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sun 21 Feb 16:03
I`m interested to hear what folk think of him and how he has done so far as Labour leader?
The polls would suggest that he still has work to do and I`d be interested to hear why folk think he has failed to capture the public imagination in the way that Tony Blair did.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Sun 21 Feb 19:03
For the Labour Party I think he is a safe pair of hands that might help to stabilise things until the next election.
Corbyn got quite a few people excited, but he also alienated a lot. Blair got a lot of people excited, and the ones he alienated just went along for the ride because they could sense victory.
I think Starmer will survive until the 2024 election, then the result will decide his future and the future of the party. Coronavirus will be long forgotten by then, but Brexit won`t, and I think that will be a problem for Labour.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sun 21 Feb 19:13
Starmer has been given strong support from the media since he is much less of a threat to vested interests than Corbyn. The ruling class of the UK is not so complacent as to assume a Tory government will always be elected, so it is important to have a safe Labour Party to fall back upon. Blair supplied this for a number of years and Starmer is hoping he can manage the same if or when the tide turns against the Conservative government.
Last week Starmer was promising to ‘work with business’ whatever that meant, a speech which was given positive media coverage. A Labour leader who puts the interests of capital before that of labour is a dream come true for those who live off inherited wealth. Imagine the furore if he had said he would ‘work with the trade unions.’
Starmer’s decision to vote for the Tory Brexit deal suggests a shabbiness in his character. He was after all a strong pro-EU supporter whose conversion to Brexit is as convincing as Kinnock’s from CND unilateralist to pro-nuclear statesman. This conversion has come rather late in the day to save what are called ‘Red Wall’ seats, seats lost partly through Starmer’s previous insistence that Labour keep the Remain option on the table. Now he has turned turtle and rather than abstaining on the Brexit deal- which would have been a reasonable response- he whipped his MPs into supporting it. It now appears the word ‘Brexit’ is to join phrases like ‘working class’ ‘trade union’ and ‘council housing’ in the dictionary of taboo Labour terms.
Leading the Labour Party from the right, which is what he in the process of doing, is a much easier media ride than leading it from the left as Corbyn attempted to do. Corbyn was more a principled protest politician than a leader but he did pick up strong support from young activists that Starmer will currently be shedding. Like Corbyn, Starmer has the problem of Labour being seen as a party for the metropolitan public employee and college educated. The Labour Party lost its industrial base under Thatcher, has lost Scotland as a result and is now in the process of losing parts of Wales and the north of England. It has few MPs who came from a working class background and its language does not resonate with working people.
Under Starmer Labour is not attacking injustice or vested interests, it’s trying to do deals. It was once said that the Labour Party was a moral crusade or it was nothing. At the moment, under Starmer, it looks like nothing.
sammer
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Mon 22 Feb 11:35
A complete wet drip, has he got his head out Boris's erchie yet?
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Mon 22 Feb 12:53
I know that this is a simplistic take but I genuinely think that Tories and centrists already have parties which represent their interests so why bother voting for Starmer when they can get the real thing.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Mon 22 Feb 15:46
He's an undeniably very clever bloke but this from Sammer nails it:
"Starmer has been given strong support from the media since he is much less of a threat to vested interests than Corbyn."
He won't (or possibly can't) make the changes that I want the UK to make that were much closer to Corbyn's policies. When I did the blind polling for the last election I am actually an exact split in terms of policies I would vote for 33% each between SNP, Labour and Lib Dems. I'd be very surprised if its still that split by the next election.
He's clever enough to know he has to pander the media to avoid the negative press that would prevent him from being elected which means he's unlikely to ever get my vote as its going to be a rehash of some center right policies that we're now told constitute left wing politics in the UK.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Mon 22 Feb 18:44
Ain't interested in Hancock doing things unlawful!🤬
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Tue 23 Feb 00:04
Don't like the guy. Very Blair-lite. Much less effective opposition than Corbyn but the media haven't gone full blown 'Muh communism' on him so no surprise opinion polls are up.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Tue 23 Feb 10:41
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Mon 22 Feb 18:44
Ain't interested in Hancock doing things unlawful!🤬
Nothing will happen to Hancock.
Read yesterday, Tory donor gave 5k donation to Hancock.....awarded 24 million ppe contract with no experience producing ppe, numerous ppe companies left out the loop.
Pure, straight theft, nothing from Starmer, a fraud of an opposition leader.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Tue 23 Feb 10:50
Have to agree with you on that one Rasta!🤔👍
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Tue 23 Feb 10:51
"A complete wet drip"
Indeed. If he jacked it in now his legacy would be puddle in a teacup
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Tue 23 Feb 13:25
Why would Starmer criticise his ideological confederates?
It`s actually ridiculous that we live in a democracy where we can realistically choose between two (arguably three) neo-liberals without the width of a fag paper between them.
Love him or hate him, at least with Corbyn there was a genuine choice on the ballot.
Post Edited (Tue 23 Feb 13:26)
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Tue 23 Feb 15:39
A good cartoon since it exaggerates only mildly what we hear on a daily basis.
The Labour Party has been shedding seats consistently since the banking crash of 2008. Brown lost 91 seats, Miliband 26 seats, and Corbyn (in two elections) 30 seats in total. Since each batch of seats losses were from a diminishing base, the party has been in a steady downward curve for the last fifteen years irrespective of who has been leader.
On the two big issues in that period the Labour Party has failed to convince the electorate. Brown’s response to a banking disaster was to bail out the banks, for which he was praised of course by mainstream media. Not one banker was jailed for negligence. He’s probably proud of that. Doctors, teachers, train drivers who make serious misjudgements can be struck off: not bankers, was the message absorbed by the electorate.
Miliband allowed the notion to take root that the banking crisis had been caused not by ‘loose touch regulation’ but by Labour borrowing too much money. He resisted little the fanciful notion that the Tory coalition would pay off all UK debt under an austerity drive (they didn’t) therefore consolidating the false narrative of Labour being responsible.
Corbyn was indecisive on Brexit, his own instincts as a leftie being to see the EU as a rich man’s club which around then was busy telling Greece to kick out its socialist regime. Nonetheless Corbyn identified the right wing nationalism which was driving Brexit so felt impelled to block their destructive impulses. He was clearly torn, as was his party: if you wanted Brexit you voted Tory; if you wanted Remain you voted Lib Dem; if you didn’t know for sure what to do you voted Labour.
By promoting a second vote policy on Brexit, Starmer help finished off Corbyn as leader. Now he has turned a somersault and decided not just to accept but actually support the Tory deal. So far, so bad. His response to Covid has been dutiful but uninspiring, probably neither winning nor losing votes. Two big issues lie ahead- the rebuilding of the economy ravaged by Covid and his party’s response to Scottish nationalism. Thus far I haven’t heard anything from Starmer which indicates he has a convincing line on either.
sammer
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