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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Fri 8 Oct 22:10
Imagine I go into a shop and ask "how much is that TV?" to which the shopkeeper responds "it is £500 mate."
But I don`t want to pay £500 so I offer £200 and the shopkeeper, quite predictably, refuses. He reminds me that the price he has set is £500.
Being incredibly entitled I make a huge fuss, claiming that I can only afford £200 and that the shopkeeper is lazy and is ruining the economy by "refusing to sell TVs to paying customers."
The shopkeeper is on a roll in terms of predictability though and slings me out on my backside.
How dishonest would it be for me to then go around claiming that there is a TV shortage?
Post Edited (Fri 08 Oct 22:11)
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 8 Oct 23:10
Exactly, market forces at work and the invisible hand doing what it does.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sat 9 Oct 00:56
Market forces don`t exist separate from the whims of individuals with vested interest in the outcome.
The belief that it is some form of natural force like gravity is economic naivety on a par with faith in trickle-down economics.
Having said that, we have moved so far from Smith`s ideas that he`s be considered a raving loony leftie these days. For example, he was insistent that strong unions, providing real collective representation for workers, were essential to a properly functioning economy.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sat 9 Oct 14:28
I’m pretty sure Adam Smith rowed back a bit on his faith in the ‘invisible hand’ in later editions of his best known book. Smith was well aware of the dangers of cartels and rigged markets, something his Thatcherite cheerleaders prefer to gloss over. The UK decision to leave the EU single market would probably have bewildered him.
It’s amusing to hear Johnson welcoming the possibility of higher wages, something never mentioned at the time of the Brexit vote. The ‘Leave’ vote might have been a great deal higher if they had! In fact this promise not to be undercut by cheap labour was one of the main planks of the Left opposition to joining the EU back in 1973, voiced by the likes of Tony Benn and Eric Heffer. They were christened the ‘Benn-Heffer Gang’ by right wing media for making this point at the time.
sammer
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Mon 11 Oct 07:35
Don't worry, Kwasi is having discussions to get this sorted.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Mon 11 Oct 21:13
I wonder if Kwasi will point out to employers that productivity has doubled since the 1980s but wages have barely kept up with inflation?
Because that is the root cause of this.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Mon 11 Oct 21:57
The Tory response to any labour shortage will not involve much in the way of paying higher wages. That might apply to certain workers such as HGV drivers but not to those who do the dirty work at the lower end of society. Since there seems to be a shortage of guest workers to do this dirty work the solution will be to further cut benefits and force the unemployed UK worker into low paid work. Phrases like `educating the workforce,` `cold dose of reality` and `attacking the something for nothing attitude` will be employed to turn the rest of us against them.
sammer
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Tue 12 Oct 10:48
I would agree with ‘persuading’ the unemployed to do these so called ‘lower skilled’ jobs, with one proviso
- people must be paid!
It’s simply not good enough to force physical Labour for the same as their benefits, you will only dramatically increase claims of disability, and run a serious risk of pushing people further into poverty.
Like many folks my age, when I was young, I did tattie picking and berry picking - and bloody tough it was too!
But it was more than I got as pocket money, or my paper round.
I also took a stint at Kettle produce, more hard work.
But it paid more than going on the dole would have done.
Gotta incentivise people to work, not force by threats of punishment.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 13 Oct 20:02
The issue with all of this is a lot of people who are unemployed are also carers or disabled meaning these jobs aren't suitable. However, there ARE plenty who could and should be picking up these jobs. They need to ensure you are better off working than on benefits.
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Topic Originator: back oh the net
Date: Sat 23 Oct 05:24
Quote:
Luxembourg Par, Tue 12 Oct 10:48
I would agree with ‘persuading’ the unemployed to do these so called ‘lower skilled’ jobs, with one proviso
- people must be paid!
It’s simply not good enough to force physical Labour for the same as their benefits, you will only dramatically increase claims of disability, and run a serious risk of pushing people further into poverty.
Like many folks my age, when I was young, I did tattie picking and berry picking - and bloody tough it was too!
But it was more than I got as pocket money, or my paper round.
I also took a stint at Kettle produce, more hard work.
But it paid more than going on the dole would have done.
Gotta incentivise people to work, not force by threats of punishment.
I have worked at kettle for the past 8 year and the start of this month was the first time since I started working there that they have gave us a pay rise over and above the minimum wage and its aimed at attracting people to go and work there but also to encourage current staff to stay as well
Come on ye pars ⚽️
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sat 23 Oct 13:56
If someone works full time hours then that should be enough to live a comfortable life, not simply scrape by slightly better than they would on the dole.
If a business can`t compete in one of the planet`s biggest economies without expecting people to peroxide their labour for less pay than they need to live comfortably, then that business simply isn`t viable and relies on exploitation of workers to make up for its lack of viability.
Post Edited (Sat 23 Oct 13:59)
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