|
|
Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Fri 3 Jun 12:11
He’s insane.
Unhinged obsession with past grievances and perceived injustices , like Hitler and Mussolini before him.
I have never been able to fathom how the civilised people of these countries with their illustrious cultural achievements, seats of learning, and beautiful architecture and cities ended up in thrall to those patent nutters.
Post Edited (Fri 03 Jun 15:17)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Fri 3 Jun 16:43
Quote:
Parboiled, Fri 3 Jun 12:11
He’s insane.
Unhinged obsession with past grievances and perceived injustices , like Hitler and Mussolini before him.
I have never been able to fathom how the civilised people of these countries with their illustrious cultural achievements, seats of learning, and beautiful architecture and cities ended up in thrall to those patent nutters.
Because the masses are manipulated and plowed with propaganda to suit those `above them`. Look at how many people are using food banks in the UK but still kiss the Tory and Royals feet. Its pathetic
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Fri 3 Jun 17:42
Health stories about the opposition leader are standard fare in any conflict. Hitler was a raving madman, Stalin was paranoid, Churchill was an alcoholic. The last Putin story I caught was the claim he is actually dead and a look- a-like substitute has replaced him! The source for such stories can usually be traced back to a member of the security services ‘speaking on condition of anonymity’ or a disgruntled ex-spy. The Russian media carries occasional stories about Zelensky and his cabinet being a gang of drug addicts.
I don’t believe any of the above are or were insane in any meaningful sense of the word. Their view of the world is cold and cynical by dint of their job and viewing people as no more than chess pieces on a board is something most of us would feel uncomfortable with: that’s presumably why we appoint them to do the dirty work and can then praise or damn them according to circumstance. Once a conflict turns military then the leaders are more likely to be criticised or even deposed by their own people for not being brutal and ruthless enough.
The trouble with the claim that the masses are brainwashed by political propaganda is that, same as advertising, no one ever believes it is them that is being swayed. It is always someone else. The best antidotes to what Chomsky called ‘manufactured consent’ include being bi-lingual (which I unfortunately am not) and reading as wide a range of information as is possible. A healthy dose of scepticism won’t go amiss either.
sammer
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Fri 3 Jun 21:21
Quote:
sammer, Fri 3 Jun 17:42
Health stories about the opposition leader are standard fare in any conflict. Hitler was a raving madman, Stalin was paranoid, Churchill was an alcoholic.
Those are all true though.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 3 Jun 23:29
Hitler wasn`t a raving madman though. That was something that the surviving members of the German high command were only too happy to promote as way to explain their own failings in their strategic conduct of the war. He was an evil scumbag who held twisted beliefs but he was very much coherent. By the end he was physical wreck and on the verge of a mental breakdown but that`s not the same as being mad. He was no more insane than Himler, Eichman, Heydrich and the rest of their Nazi cohorts. They knew exactly what they were doing and why they were doing it and they don`t deserve the luxury of of having it written off as the actions of madness. It`s also why Putin shouldn`t be described as being mad.
Just to be clear Wotsit I`m not meaning you were doing that.
In other news I see some Russian chess grandmaster who has publicly supported the invasion has been awarded a medal by the Kremlin for `Merit to the Fatherland". I wonder if it came with oak leaves
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Fri 3 Jun 23:54
Wotsit, kind of. The most effective black propaganda contains a kernel of truth.
I came across a clip of Hitler on youtube speaking, unknown he was being recorded, to the PM of Finland around 1942. Far from being the maniacal orator we recognise from history he sounded a calm, subdued man concerned about the progress of the war. He was no fool and well aware of the problems which his troops faced on the eastern front. On the podium at a Nazi rally in Nuremburg he was a different animal entirely of course, easily discounted as a raving fanatic which is how he was seen by most Germans up until around 1930.
That’s the Hitler that history has remembered, the easiest one for us to digest. Hitler, the madman who hypnotised an entire society and many outwith his borders as well. Yes, there’s a grain of truth in there but he was only influencing people who wanted to believe in his vision of Germania. If Hitler created Nazi Germany then the majority of the German people willed him to do so. If he was insane then so were around 80 million others (minus the Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists, Jews, Christians and teenage ‘hooligans’ who stood against his system and were jailed or killed.)
We make too much of political personality. Can any of us imagine a lively night out in the local boozer with Gordon Brown, Vlad Putin or Keir Starmer? John Major, Nicola Sturgeon or Ted Heath at the pool table anyone? Boris Johnson probably has the advantage that he can laugh at himself, a precious gift when others are keen to do so as well. But that he’s a poorer politician than any of the others is evident. Putin has launched an incursion into Ukraine but it’s nothing to do with his health; he’s got advisors aplenty to steer him. If Biden is a weak president it’s nothing to do with his health; he’s in better fettle than Roosevelt was at Yalta. If Zelensky claims he can reclaim the Crimea then it’s not because he is snorting cocaine. Let’s focus on the politics.
sammer
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Sat 4 Jun 07:45
Yes, I see from these thought provoking responses I was over simplifying these complex characters.
Need to delve into some history books. William Shirer’s Rise and Fall of the Third Reich is a classic well worth re reading, and there’s a load of stuff since that was published.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Sat 4 Jun 19:08
In other news I see some Russian chess grandmaster who has publicly supported the invasion has been awarded a medal by the Kremlin for `Merit to the Fatherland". I wonder if it came with oak leaves
That’ll be Sergey Karjakin – once the youngest Grandmaster in history and who was a tie-break away from being World Champion. I saw him play at a tournament at Lindores Abbey three or four years ago. He used to be Ukrainian but as an ethnic Russian switched federations to Russia a while ago.
He has been banned from playing chess by FIDE (the chess equivalent of FIFA) for his comments. Generally the chess world is on board with international sanctions which is a little problematic as a lot of money and political influence in chess has Russian sources.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Sun 5 Jun 12:48
Wotsit, alcoholic or not Churchill had a prodigious intake.
On a visit to NYC in the thirties he got knocked down crossing 5th Avenue and hospitalised for a while with a head injury. Prohibition was still in place, but his doctor wrote out a prescription for a daily ration of booze as being an essential aid to his recovery..I think Dan Snow the historian has or had that very slip of paper.
However, on flying to Moscow to see Stalin in 1942 he more than met his match when the meetings were over and the vodka started flowing!
|
|
|
|
|
|
