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 Is there a difference between...
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Thu 2 Nov 14:55

War, mass murder, Russia`s `special operation, Israel`s `self defence,` and `terrorist attacks` by a great many different groups?

Are these all not murder?

Is the difference only the justifications?

Isn`t it all murder just the same? None of those things is like the self defence of an individual fighting off an attacker - they`re all murdering people, usually many, at a distance (or in some cases, terrorism is murdering an individual at close quarters.)

If it`s all murder - why is it always happening - why is it that civil law cracks down on murder or even slight acts of violence but, call it war, terrorism, `special operation` etc. and civil law no longer applies? Been going on forever. Glorified even in religious texts. Is that part of the problem? Religions have made it normal?

Is the real fundamental problem the power of individuals (e.g. national leaders) to murder as they choose?



Post Edited (Thu 02 Nov 19:07)
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 Re: Is there a difference between...
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Thu 2 Nov 21:06

National leasers probably getting nice thick brown envelopes from weapons manufacturers and possibly energy companies.They are the two lots making mega profits out of wars.

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 Re: Is there a difference between...
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Thu 2 Nov 22:58

Good points Donj, but I can`t help thinking of Putin, Nehanyatu, Hamas etc, and others as monsters, yet in the name of "Foreign Policy," and "freedom" has there been any leader who did not authorise murder? I mean Tony Blair did it (Iraq) - Mandela was training folk to undertake terrorist acts, before he got nabbed, Obama authorised air strikes on Syria, etc.

I`m not saying there weren`t justifications, there always are in the minds of those who make the decisions - there aren`t always simple alternatives - although sometimes I believe there are.

In my long life I don`t recall anyone in power saying we`re not gonna fight in the modern terrorist way. Let`s face it, modern warfare is terrorism - and has been ever since war expanded beyond the clash of opposing armies on a battlefield.

How do we put that `kin` monster back in the box?

But to focus on your point Donj - that folk make money from war - is there a way that can ever change? How to stop it?



Post Edited (Thu 02 Nov 23:24)
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 Re: Is there a difference between...
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 3 Nov 21:21

OAUTP asks questions which have bedevilled philosophers as well as politicians since the dawn of time. I doubt he will obtain a satisfactory answer from me or anyone else on DAFC.net. We’re all Homo Sapiens on here so we share the same limitations. As a species our history has too often revolved around invasion, conquest and extermination. Slavery, whether physical or economic, has long been a handmaiden to this process. The denial of this truth- the modern day USA with its high flown rhetoric is surely the most egregious example- is hardly unique in history.

Amidst such grim Darwinism and Hobbes philosophy there remain shafts of light. Most people across the world aspire to something better even if we elect politicians to do our dirtier deeds. There is something greater to appeal to other than self interest or prosperity or security or whatever is the present fashion amongst our political elite.

‘We must love another or die’ wrote Auden in August 1939 as WW2 broke put. I can’t quite reach that level myself but if we do not respect the rights of others as equal to our own then we are doomed, if not to eradication as a species, then to pass on to our grandchildren the same depressing history as before. I think we are better than that and the UN was formed for that purpose.

sammer
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 Re: Is there a difference between...
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Fri 3 Nov 22:03

In the end the rich have taken over since the disaster of the World Wars.After the second we got a democracy that worked for the people but the money lovers took it all over.In the 60`s I dreamed about how great a world it was going to be.Then Thatcher arrived and destroyed it.
I really hate all these people that died in all these wars but the money men will keep it going to make their cash as they control the world now.

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 Re: Is there a difference between...
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sat 4 Nov 23:36

Ref: donj Fri 3 Nov 22:03

Yeh the world has gone haywire lately. I was thinking back only about 30 years (even after Thatcher had done her worst) - I still had a good feeling about the world then heading the right way - equal opportunities was a big thing - UN Charters and Human Rights and all that, seemed like there was something growing. It`s so diferent now, I`ve no idea how it`s gonna pan out.

One problem with wars is that there`s always gonna be armies. It occured to me that we are pretty much the property of our leaders. If they say there`s conscription - you gotta go - or go to the nick. In that sense they own us. Seems it`s all stitched up.

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