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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Tue 23 Jan 17:23
Gather a shareholder or patron has organised some sort of event at the end of the month to share some "concerns" about various things including financial (especially regarding the youth teams?). Anyone a shareholder or member on here and will you be attending the meeting?
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Topic Originator: eastendalloapar
Date: Tue 23 Jan 17:29
I`m a SH, however at this point in time I am not sure if I will be able to go, it will depend when it will be held.
matt forsyth
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Topic Originator: Athletico
Date: Tue 23 Jan 17:36
Few rumours doing the rounds on other forums... I believe the meeting is on the 30th.
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Topic Originator: Kaiser Chief
Date: Tue 23 Jan 18:10
The meeting for Pars United CIC Patrons is at 7pm on 30th January at KDM Group East End Park.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 23 Jan 18:14
Can`t imagine we`re anymore hard up than anyone else. I suspect this may be a call for shareholders to dig deep to keep the finances looking rosey.
We`re still seeking to fill some reasonably well paying roles at the club (this isn`t a criticism) so wouldn`t start stressing about any daft rumours going round on Facebook or the like.
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Topic Originator: galapar
Date: Tue 23 Jan 18:42
I’ve got a few shares but heard nothing so can’t be everyone I suppose
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Topic Originator: steaua
Date: Tue 23 Jan 19:09
Will look forward to that. I would like to know, if I qualify to attend as it says, The meeting for Pars United CIC PATRONS, who exactly does that include.?
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Topic Originator: Kaiser Chief
Date: Tue 23 Jan 19:14
Anyone who donated £1000 or more in 2013, during the campaign to raise money to avoid liquidation and take the club out of administration, became a patron of Pars United. Those who did that should have received details of the forthcoming meeting.
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Topic Originator: Alter Ego
Date: Tue 23 Jan 19:29
Eh Marv shouldn’t even have to question if she can go to this meeting imo.
Mon the Pars!
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Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74
Date: Tue 23 Jan 20:20
Of course she shouldn’t be allowed to attend. She’s clearly not a PU shareholder if she’s having to ask.
Fair play for doing things but lots done that. Fair play to the guys who dug deep as well and put there funds in big numbers.
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Topic Originator: Alter Ego
Date: Tue 23 Jan 20:37
Really… u don’t have a clue what Marv has done for this club. .net at its finest again!
Mon the Pars!
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Tue 23 Jan 21:42
Quote:
Alter Ego, Tue 23 Jan 20:37
Really… u don’t have a clue what Marv has done for this club. .net at its finest again!
Everyone knows, understands and appreciates everything that Marv has done for this club.
That still doesn’t allow access to a businesses shareholders meeting.
Might sound harsh, but thats the way the cookie crumbles sometimes…
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Topic Originator: Alter Ego
Date: Tue 23 Jan 21:50
Oh well and yes that is not right considering there has thousands gone to the club and Academy.
Business shareholders meeting..😅😅 really? All you business owners have done a great job I presume?
Mon the Pars!
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Tue 23 Jan 22:25
Quote:
Alter Ego, Tue 23 Jan 21:50
Oh well and yes that is not right considering there has thousands gone to the club and Academy.
Business shareholders meeting..😅😅 really? All you business owners have done a great job I presume?
And everyone, Im sure, appreciates the money thats been raised.
Im not quite sure what your real gripe is though? Its quite clear that its for people who put in X amount of money at a certain time to become a shareholder.
Also, by the looks of her comment, Marv was just wondering what the criteria was to be classed as a shareholder…..
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Topic Originator: steaua
Date: Tue 23 Jan 23:12
Dave 1885, to clarify,, I do not and never at any time asked for preferential treatment. And as a matter of fact I am a shareholder , however, I asked the question as it was not clear whether the meeting was for shareholders or for this other group called PARS United CIC Patrons/ And, at the time mentioned above myself and our wee DASC team organised several fundraising events and put a lot more than £1000 in when needed.
It was a brilliant time when the fans all came together to do what we could to save our beloved PARS.
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Tue 23 Jan 23:21
I`ve got to say, I`m a wee bit concerned about this, hot on the heels of Greg Shields leaving. What`s going on?
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Topic Originator: NW 1966
Date: Wed 24 Jan 05:04
Hopefully it goes well enough on the night and it`d be handy if a set of minutes are produced. The talk of a rallying call by email by a Patron imploring others to join the meeting is concerning. The inference being there are concerns over a number of things in relation to how the club is being run. Legitimate concerns or not, they`ll need to be answered as I believe the Board are accountable to the shareholders (could be wrong on that). Transparency, and ongoing transparency should be a given for fans regardless who runs our club, especially after what happened just over 10 year ago.
Anyway, a couple of games on the trot with decent results should calm folk a bit.
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Topic Originator: RossF
Date: Wed 24 Jan 06:29
Hopefully there will be nothing to worry about.
One thing always on my mind is if the training ground will be completed. We’ve been sold this dream a few times before - even dating back to when Leishman was in charge. Hopefully this time we get something in place as it could be massive for our future. I can’t get excited about it until we are finally using it though.
As for Shields leaving, it’s a blow but there’s a possibility that a job too good to turn down came along for him outside football?
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Topic Originator: back oh the net
Date: Wed 24 Jan 10:48
So basically in a nutshell a few patrons have finally caved and hit the panic button and have decided to hold a meeting about which way the Germans are taking the club does that just about cover it?
Come on ye pars ⚽️
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 24 Jan 11:22
Quote:
back oh the net, Wed 24 Jan 10:48
So basically in a nutshell a few patrons have finally caved and hit the panic button and have decided to hold a meeting about which way the Germans are taking the club does that just about cover it?
Yes. Though you`ve missed "And people with half a story start making up stories on social media."
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Topic Originator: Ladswell_Thistle
Date: Wed 24 Jan 12:17
Quote:
red-star-par, Tue 23 Jan 23:21
I`ve got to say, I`m a wee bit concerned about this, hot on the heels of Greg Shields leaving. What`s going on?
Shields has been planning to leave since before Christmas.
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Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks
Date: Wed 24 Jan 12:22
When Ross McArthur was in the role we got a detailed break down of that seasons finances, is that not where the concerns are, the current set up lacks the transparency of the previous one ?
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Topic Originator: GJS93
Date: Wed 24 Jan 12:25
"So basically in a nutshell a few patrons have finally caved and hit the panic button and have decided to hold a meeting about which way the Germans are taking the club does that just about cover it?"
isnt this an annual meeting too?
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Topic Originator: Athletico
Date: Wed 24 Jan 12:32
It`s being held at EEP, so it doesn`t sound like a rogue meeting, looks to be just the annual meeting. Think the rumours have circulated because 1 ONE shareholder has got a German bee in his bonnet and sent out an email encouraging folk to attend. Banging on about transparency/finances etc. (I`m not privy to that email, again just forum/Internet rumours).
In terms of your point Westie, Ross and Co were pretty transparent, but they had to be - we were "fan owned". We`re now owned by a business, so I think if you want transparency - you need to go looking for it on Companies House every year the accounts are put out.
I have no real concerns about our current board.
Post Edited (Wed 24 Jan 12:36)
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Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Wed 24 Jan 12:38
"I have no real concerns about our current board."
so you look at things at EEP in the last 6-18months and arent concerned about how stagnent and at points embarassing they have been? All just perfectly normal?
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Wed 24 Jan 12:49
According to reports Shields told the players before Christmas about him leaving presumably he had to work some sort of notice period or may he offered to wait until a replacement was identified.
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Wed 24 Jan 12:49
Quote:
Playup_Pompey, Wed 24 Jan 12:38
"I have no real concerns about our current board."
so you look at things at EEP in the last 6-18months and arent concerned about how stagnent and at points embarassing they have been? All just perfectly normal?
We`ve signed two players for a FEE, and started work on our training ground. Given the current economic climate I wouldn`t say we`ve been stagnant,
Unlucky? yes,
Management decisions have been incorrect but hindsight is a wonderful thing. And given that we now have a solid Management team I believe the mistakes were worth it.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 24 Jan 12:55
I`d be interested in hearing which clubs in this league are more active than us?
What are people expecting to see exactly?
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Topic Originator: Athletico
Date: Wed 24 Jan 12:58
Am I concerned that we got promoted at first time of asking, and have, despite a ridiculous injury crisis competed in the division above? Started work on our training ground? Seen physical improvements to East End Park? An increase in commercial activity and revenue at the club? Handing out long term deals to players? Signing talented youngsters for a fee? No I`m not.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Wed 24 Jan 13:32
I`m a bit concerned about how we`re now skirting on the edges of the bottom 2 spots, although much of that has to be down to injuries. Not sure about anything else behind the scenes as I don`t pay any attention to the moon howlers on social media.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
Post Edited (Wed 24 Jan 13:32)
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Topic Originator: parathletic
Date: Wed 24 Jan 13:52
I do worry about the continual running costs of an academy.I was reading an article the other day about Peterborough United and how they run their academy at a net loss of £1 million per year.Whilst I`m not suggesting our outlay will be anything like that it does get you thinking about the costs.Is the plan for it to leased out and become self-sufficient? Irrespective of how the team is doing those outgoings will always be there.
I`m not trying to put a complete downer on it but just getting my head around the practicalities.
Apologies if this has already been discussed elsewhere.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 24 Jan 14:31
My understanding is it will be available to the public to use when not being used by the club. I`ve no idea if the cost but I`d assume there`s a saving of sorts by not having to pay to rent pitches elsewhere. It also means better facilities for the players and therefore the club becomes more appealing to players.
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Topic Originator: parathletic
Date: Wed 24 Jan 14:43
Quote:
jake89, Wed 24 Jan 14:31
My understanding is it will be available to the public to use when not being used by the club. I`ve no idea if the cost but I`d assume there`s a saving of sorts by not having to pay to rent pitches elsewhere. It also means better facilities for the players and therefore the club becomes more appealing to players.
Cheers Jake.There are loads of positives.Hope for the best but prepare for the worst as they say.
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Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74
Date: Wed 24 Jan 15:15
Quote:
Athletico, Wed 24 Jan 12:58
Am I concerned that we got promoted at first time of asking, and have, despite a ridiculous injury crisis competed in the division above? Started work on our training ground? Seen physical improvements to East End Park? An increase in commercial activity and revenue at the club? Handing out long term deals to players? Signing talented youngsters for a fee? No I`m not.
Bigger increase in overhead than revenue with commercial steams. Can you explain the uplift? I’m sure you’ll see we’re actually losing more money than before. Interesting to hear your figures though.
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Topic Originator: Athletico
Date: Wed 24 Jan 15:26
There are no figures to provide, do you have any figures?
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Topic Originator: Athletico
Date: Wed 24 Jan 15:36
There are no figures to provide, do you have any figures?
You pose that question to me like me, a 38 year old IT consultant and Internet forum member has some weight or credence behind my sumisation that the club isn`t sinking like a stone or on its erse. I don`t, much like I assume you probably dont either. Unless you`re David Cook, a director or the accountant who does our accounts?
I posted what I posted based on the fact that yes we have increased income coming in due to increased crowds being in a higher division, record Season Tickets, merchandise sales and sponsorship. I`m well aware the club has made loses - they`ve been quite open about that.
Post Edited (Wed 24 Jan 15:36)
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Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Wed 24 Jan 15:43
"Am I concerned that we got promoted at first time of asking, and have, despite a ridiculous injury crisis competed in the division above? Started work on our training ground? Seen physical improvements to East End Park? An increase in commercial activity and revenue at the club? Handing out long term deals to players? Signing talented youngsters for a fee? No I`m not."
physical improvements at EEP? The matchday experience at EEP is poor on a good day and terrible when its a "big" game in terms of access to the stadium and facilities available. Or Non existent recently based on the condition of the facilities we have (and notinvested to upgrade/maintain)
Those long term deals are doing wonders for us...just look on the forum Mehmets limit was top of league 1. Now stuck with him for next 2 seasons after this one where he would be a back-up at best as we look to push from "saftey" to promotion/promotion playoff contenders. Also doing wonders when we are relying on 17 year old boys to play because we are absolutley down to the skeleton of the squad.
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Topic Originator: Athletico
Date: Wed 24 Jan 16:04
Are you expecting it to be fixed overnight? We don`t have the Saudi royal family backing us up PUP. What they have done is fixed the major issues that we did have. Floodlight replacement being a massive cost, issues with plumbing, wiring, they`ve just finished the changing rooms and tunnel area. The stadium was literally falling to bits when they came in, it will surprisingly take time to get everything done.
You picked Mehemt. But we`ll just conveniently not mention McCann, Todd, Comrie? Or that Otoo and KRH were signed on 3 years deals. Cool.
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Topic Originator: Geordiepar
Date: Wed 24 Jan 16:15
Playup Pompey, for openness and transparency are you able to confirm if you are one of patrons of Pars United who will be attending the meeting?
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Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Wed 24 Jan 17:12
"Are you expecting it to be fixed overnight? We don`t have the Saudi royal family backing us up PUP. What they have done is fixed the major issues that we did have. Floodlight replacement being a massive cost, issues with plumbing, wiring, they`ve just finished the changing rooms and tunnel area. The stadium was literally falling to bits when they came in, it will surprisingly take time to get everything done.
You picked Mehemt. But we`ll just conveniently not mention McCann, Todd, Comrie? Or that Otoo and KRH were signed on 3 years deals. Cool."
Openly told that cant afford to fix tannoy system that is inaudible for about 50% of the stadium. Tunnel looks brilliiant...Shame we havent had use of it for 3 weeks because the other facilities that actually matter such as the playing surface is not fit for purpose due to under investment in maintanence. We will all bicker as fans about how much progress we think should be made vs what is actually made and its that debate that keeps things healthy and has us wanting what is best for the club.
Many moan about "when will we hear from the owners" ignoring that there are at least 2 open Fans conference sessions a season yet when you attend these sessions its always the same nature of questions raised and boys that work on a building site/supermarket etc Monday to friday questioning the manager of a football club who watches a player in training day in day out why he plays the players he does.
I gave up a season ticket because it was not cost effective to buy one when more and more weekend games were cancelled and moved to midweek. This season will probably see the fewest ever saturday 3pm matches played at EEP in a season.
For transparity I will not be at EEP for the Pars United meeting but will look forward to reading the post meeting minutes.
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Wed 24 Jan 17:16
Post Edited (Wed 24 Jan 17:16)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 24 Jan 17:19
`Those long term deals are doing wonders for us...just look on the forum Mehmets limit was top of league 1. Now stuck with him for next 2 seasons after this one where he would be a back-up at best as we look to push from "saftey" to promotion/promotion playoff contenders. Also doing wonders when we are relying on 17 year old boys to play because we are absolutley down to the skeleton of the squad.`
Should members of the Forum, who may not even be shareholders, approve players` contracts?
The concept of a `patron` doesn`t exist in company law as far as I know and I`m curious to know what rights they have. I recall when the club came out of Administration and was trying to raise funds through new shares it was said that anyone contributing £5,000 or more would hold shares in Pars United in their own right and would be called a `patron` but I don`t remember if they had special rights. If anyone contributed less than £5,000 their shares in Pars United would be held collectively by the Pars Supporters Trust. Pars United would then invest these funds in DAFC Ltd on behalf of both patrons and non-patrons and become the major shareholder.
It was also said at the time that the limit for becoming a patron would be subsequently reduced to £1,000 but I don`t think those who initially contributed between £1,000 and £4,999 were reclassified as patrons which seems a bit of an anomaly in relation to this proposed meeting of patrons.
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Topic Originator: DJAS
Date: Wed 24 Jan 17:49
It was mentioned record season ticket sales. I wonder how many sold are U12 though
Predictor league winner 2012/2013
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Topic Originator: elvis_lives
Date: Wed 24 Jan 18:02
Yeah we might have sold more and made less money.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 24 Jan 18:19
No mention of things like the expensive floodlight upgrades? I don`t know what people are expecting here. Stadium maintenance is expensive enough without additional upgrades too. Things need prioritised.
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Topic Originator: Alter Ego
Date: Wed 24 Jan 22:17
Why can’t someone just stand up and say”what the fek is going on” We as fans are not happy and want to know what is going on?
Mon the Pars!
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 24 Jan 22:56
Quote:
Alter Ego, Wed 24 Jan 22:17
Why can’t someone just stand up and say”what the fek is going on” We as fans are not happy and want to know what is going on?
Isn`t that what one of the shareholders has done?
It`s unlikely any business is going to tell its customers potentially sensitive information, but it will tell its shareholders. The only reason for the club to reveal info about how the club is being run would be to correct the sweetie wives on twitter 😂
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Thu 25 Jan 03:47
Quote:
Alter Ego, Wed 24 Jan 22:17
Why can’t someone just stand up and say”what the fek is going on” We as fans are not happy and want to know what is going on?
Im a fan and am happy with whats going on, but thanks for your concerns over my feelings 👌🏻
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Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Thu 25 Jan 06:47
Quote:
Alter Ego, Wed 24 Jan 22:17
Why can’t someone just stand up and say”what the fek is going on” We as fans are not happy and want to know what is going on?
You mean, some of "We".
Plenty of "We" are happy.
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Topic Originator: theparsman1885
Date: Thu 25 Jan 10:21
It’s been said elsewhere.
What other club in the league has had their three top players out long term injured all season?
The strategy of the group has been publicly stated many times, investing in younger players to drive the club forward. Otoo, Todd, Fisher, KRH, McCann all on long term deals. Just so happens two of that group have been injured all season!
Our manager has said on countless occasions he’s happy with the setup.
We can actually see the progress on the training ground, just have a drive up and have a look.
Could this be a case of some folk who used to have a bit more power being peeved it’s not all going as they would want…?
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Thu 25 Jan 10:36
There`s a lot of speculation on this thread. The fact is that some fans (who could afford it and maybe some who couldn`t) put their hands into their pockets in 2013 and gifted the club significant sums of money to save it from going under, thanks to serious mismanagement by the previous owners.
As I understand it, these shareholders (or patrons, if you prefer) are not looking to ever get that money back, but they do want to see the club thrive, as we all do. I believe they`re just looking for reassurances that the club is heading in the right direction and is not in any financial difficulty. I can`t see anything untoward or underhand about that.
For transparency, I`m not a shareholder myself, but I do know some people who are.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: The Boss
Date: Thu 25 Jan 11:22
You do feel some rumblings from other fans at the game which gets you a little worried.
Someone who sits near me at home games was saying the training complex is haemorrhaging money. Saying the club have been a bit naive.
I’ve always had concerns about the “investment” especially after the Masterton era. I think people need to be more cautious and ask questions. Especially if they’ve put in their own money to keep the club going.
If we had a successful team on the park, people probably wouldn’t be questioning things but we have a big support and big season ticket base paying some of the highest prices. With all this we could end up back in league 1. Fans have a right to be concerned in my opinion.
I like black and white (dreaming of black and white)
You like black and white
Run run away
Post Edited (Thu 25 Jan 12:04)
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Topic Originator: thebear
Date: Thu 25 Jan 11:26
I am confused by this talk, we have started a snowball rolling probably for no reason.
Have to wait until accounts are produced but, firstly
Ignoring historical debts. Season by season, how does our ingongs versus outgoing go, we have to be fairly good
And secondly what does accounts look like, l we ts wait and see.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 25 Jan 11:36
Where exactly did some fans expect us to be first season back in the Championship? We`re sixth in a 10-team league having played one or two games fewer than any other team. There are probably only three teams who can be fairly sure they won`t be involved in relegation. We haven`t been able to field our strongest team, or anywhere near it, all season.
Nothing`s certain in football but the club is in a relatively good place compared with the recent past. I don`t really see the need for a special meeting when the club organises regular meetings for supporters and there`s always the AGM to ask questions or raise concerns.
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Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Thu 25 Jan 11:42
Quote:
The Boss, Thu 25 Jan 11:22
You do feel some rumblings from other fans at the game which gets you a little worried.
Someone who sits near me at home games was saying the training complex is haemorrhaging money. Saying the club has been a bit naive.
I’ve always had concerns about the “investment” especially after the Masterton era. I think people need to be more cautious and ask questions. Especially if they’ve put in their own money to keep the club going.
If we had a successful team on the park, people probably wouldn’t be questioning things but we have a big support and big season ticket base paying some of the highest prices. With all this we could end up back in league 1. Fans have a right to be concerned in my opinion.
Save time and effort then. No need for a meeting. Just ask the guy who sits next to you and we will know all we need to know.
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Topic Originator: The Boss
Date: Thu 25 Jan 11:52
Quote:
PARrot, Thu 25 Jan 11:42
Quote:
The Boss, Thu 25 Jan 11:22
You do feel some rumblings from other fans at the game which gets you a little worried.
Someone who sits near me at home games was saying the training complex is haemorrhaging money. Saying the club has been a bit naive.
I’ve always had concerns about the “investment” especially after the Masterton era. I think people need to be more cautious and ask questions. Especially if they’ve put in their own money to keep the club going.
If we had a successful team on the park, people probably wouldn’t be questioning things but we have a big support and big season ticket base paying some of the highest prices. With all this we could end up back in league 1. Fans have a right to be concerned in my opinion.
Save time and effort then. No need for a meeting. Just ask the guy who sits next to you and we will know all we need to know.
Just saying what I’ve heard. No need to be smart. If it wasn’t for ordinary fans back in 2013 speaking up, we probably wouldn’t have a club today.
I like black and white (dreaming of black and white)
You like black and white
Run run away
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Thu 25 Jan 12:31
I don`t know the workings of these meetings but any communication from the club can`t be a bad thing, if only to set the record straight. Looking forward to hearing what gets said from both sides of the fence.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
Post Edited (Thu 25 Jan 12:31)
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Topic Originator: eastendalloapar
Date: Thu 25 Jan 12:31
Please stop using the term Shareholders Meeting. I am one but have not been asked to attend. At the time of administration I could only work part time and could only afford to give £250 to Pars United.
matt forsyth
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Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Thu 25 Jan 13:18
Quote:
The Boss, Thu 25 Jan 11:52
Quote:
PARrot, Thu 25 Jan 11:42
Quote:
The Boss, Thu 25 Jan 11:22
You do feel some rumblings from other fans at the game which gets you a little worried.
Someone who sits near me at home games was saying the training complex is haemorrhaging money. Saying the club has been a bit naive.
I’ve always had concerns about the “investment” especially after the Masterton era. I think people need to be more cautious and ask questions. Especially if they’ve put in their own money to keep the club going.
If we had a successful team on the park, people probably wouldn’t be questioning things but we have a big support and big season ticket base paying some of the highest prices. With all this we could end up back in league 1. Fans have a right to be concerned in my opinion.
Save time and effort then. No need for a meeting. Just ask the guy who sits next to you and we will know all we need to know.
Just saying what I’ve heard. No need to be smart. If it wasn’t for ordinary fans back in 2013 speaking up, we probably wouldn’t have a club today.
Aye it was a bit smart. Apologies for that, but it was not ordinary fans who spoke up initially. It was insiders who knew exactly what was going on. It took a while to filter through the ordinary fans and gain credibility.
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Thu 25 Jan 13:39
Oh my, this is taking me back to some memories I have placed into a dark recess of my mind.
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Topic Originator: Indiapar
Date: Thu 25 Jan 14:01
Without speculating, it is possible that the costs of the development have gone up post Covid from initial projections, but that`s the case across the whole construction industry. Material costs have gone up, contractors have gone out of business, there are issues with supply chains, availability of materials, etc. You have to be careful with the language used. It is reasonable to assume it may cost more than originally projected, but I`m not sure it would be any more than that. Irrespective, it`s a long-term investment, and the financial planning around that would consider that in terms of risk and payback. The situation with the team is perhaps a different issue. As wee eck said, we are 6th in the league have suffered injuries so personally I don`t feel the need to push the panic button. Perhaps the lesson here is to improve the communication. This, for me, would be when factual information becomes available in terms of the clubs plans, signings, etc. The worst thing you can do is send out inaccurate or ill-informed information as this causes speculation, rumour, and scare mongering. Engagement with fans is very important, but there is a fine line in terms of the personal information divulged financial negotiations, and strategic planning etc.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 25 Jan 14:39
They`ll be asking to see all their WhatsApp messages next! 😊😊😊
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Thu 25 Jan 15:57
Quote:
Indiapar, Thu 25 Jan 14:01
Without speculating, it is possible that the costs of the development have gone up post Covid from initial projections, but that`s the case across the whole construction industry. Material costs have gone up, contractors have gone out of business, there are issues with supply chains, availability of materials, etc. You have to be careful with the language used. It is reasonable to assume it may cost more than originally projected, but I`m not sure it would be any more than that. Irrespective, it`s a long-term investment, and the financial planning around that would consider that in terms of risk and payback. The situation with the team is perhaps a different issue. As wee eck said, we are 6th in the league have suffered injuries so personally I don`t feel the need to push the panic button. Perhaps the lesson here is to improve the communication. This, for me, would be when factual information becomes available in terms of the clubs plans, signings, etc. The worst thing you can do is send out inaccurate or ill-informed information as this causes speculation, rumour, and scare mongering. Engagement with fans is very important, but there is a fine line in terms of the personal information divulged financial negotiations, and strategic planning etc.
Would be interesting to know the structure of the investment into the work. As Cook stated we needed "funding partners". Was this silent partnership was it donations or are they going to come calling further down the line for their return..... All genuine questions.
Personally I think we are spending way too much money on something that historically hasn`t made us money in the past. We are too close to Edinburgh and Glasgow to attract the best young talents to eep.
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Thu 25 Jan 17:47
Personally I think we are spending way too much money on something that historically hasn`t made us money in the past. We are too close to Edinburgh and Glasgow to attract the best young talents to eep.
It`s not about attracting the best young talent,
It`s about providing the first team with a constant supply of talent.
One player may go on to be like Andy Robertson but in all probability it may not happen,
But without a youth academy we will never get the chance.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 25 Jan 18:04
Just to summarise what I`m reading:
This is the standard shareholders meeting (for shareholders who have invested £1000+)
One shareholder wants to discuss running of the club as an agenda point
Part of the running "concern" may relate to the training facility.
None of this sounds particularly groundbreaking tbh.
Perhaps we need to bring in a psychic as so many seem to expect the club to have predicted injuries, rising material costs and match call offs.
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Thu 25 Jan 19:20
Quote:
eastendalloapar, Thu 25 Jan 12:31
Please stop using the term Shareholders Meeting. I am one but have not been asked to attend.
I`m not in the UK at present, so this is posted from memory and some may be slightly wrong, but broadly I think it`s correct and may be of some help.
"Patrons" are those individuals and groups who laid out significant sums to allow Pars United to take DAFC Ltd out of administration. Most (not all) were Pars supporters and several were also small shareholders in DAFC Ltd. These Patrons became shareholders in Pars United Community Interest Company (PUCIC) - not DAFC Ltd. I don`t think any Patron expects any return on their money or that their PUCIC shares will ever be worth anything.
There were minimum investment limits (initially £5k) for Patrons because the risky nature of the Pars United investment meant it had to be restricted to those classed technically as High Net Worth Individuals. The minimum investment sum was reduced to £1k at some point in the process.
I would suggest therefore that the Patrons` meeting next week is effectively for shareholders of PUCIC (and presumably anyone else who is invited by PUCIC.) I don`t know what stage DAFC Fussball`s complete takeover is at, but AFAIK PUCIC is still a major (or perhaps even majority) shareholder of DAFC Ltd, so Patrons have an extra justification for involvement as well as just being Pars supporters.
When the PUCIC takeover of DAFC Ltd took place there was a determination of the new owners to act transparently (within reason - many commercial areas are obviously not for the public domain.)
Two separate forums (fora?) were set up - the Supporters Council (SC)and the Patrons Council (PC) with the intention that they would meet regularly and provide two-way communication with the Board.
The SC was reasonably successful for a few years but eventually failed due to the very low numbers of supporters attending, and Covid was the final blow. The current Board seems to be trying various ways of direct communication with fans, such as small informal meetings with reps from supporter groups and larger gatherings open to all fans, rather like the old SC.
The PC did meet a few times, but again numbers attending were quite low and Covid probably did for it too. I also think (just a guess, I could be wrong) that it became very difficult for the Board to be fully transparent during the long discussions and negotiations with potential investors, eventually resulting in the DAFC Fussball involvement. I`m sure there would have been confidentiality agreements in place which would preclude revealing any information.
So probably the meeting next week is an attempt by the Board to close the gap in communication with a group of people who have invested large sums of money in the club and who (through their PUCIC shares) still own a large chunk of the club. Perhaps some Patrons feel that the Board is making wrong/poor decisions and if so this is an opportunity for these concerns to be dealt with openly, so it`s surely to be welcomed.
If I`ve got my facts wrong I hope someone will come along to correct me!
_________________
 Support Dunfermline Athletic Disabled Supporters` Club (DADSC) when you shop online with one of 8000 firms: https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/dadsc[
Post Edited (Thu 25 Jan 19:58)
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Topic Originator: Kaiser Chief
Date: Thu 25 Jan 21:05
Your recollection of the facts is the same as mine, Stanza.
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Topic Originator: Parfect69
Date: Thu 25 Jan 21:13
The last paragraph nails it Stanza for me. Will be an interesting meeting for sure.
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Topic Originator: Rigger Al
Date: Thu 25 Jan 21:31
Quote:
Stanza, Thu 25 Jan 19:20
Quote:
eastendalloapar, Thu 25 Jan 12:31
Please stop using the term Shareholders Meeting. I am one but have not been asked to attend.
I`m not in the UK at present, so this is posted from memory and some may be slightly wrong, but broadly I think it`s correct and may be of some help.
"Patrons" are those individuals and groups who laid out significant sums to allow Pars United to take DAFC Ltd out of administration. Most (not all) were Pars supporters and several were also small shareholders in DAFC Ltd. These Patrons became shareholders in Pars United Community Interest Company (PUCIC) - not DAFC Ltd. I don`t think any Patron expects any return on their money or that their PUCIC shares will ever be worth anything.
There were minimum investment limits (initially £5k) for Patrons because the risky nature of the Pars United investment meant it had to be restricted to those classed technically as High Net Worth Individuals. The minimum investment sum was reduced to £1k at some point in the process.
I would suggest therefore that the Patrons` meeting next week is effectively for shareholders of PUCIC (and presumably anyone else who is invited by PUCIC.) I don`t know what stage DAFC Fussball`s complete takeover is at, but AFAIK PUCIC is still a major (or perhaps even majority) shareholder of DAFC Ltd, so Patrons have an extra justification for involvement as well as just being Pars supporters.
When the PUCIC takeover of DAFC Ltd took place there was a determination of the new owners to act transparently (within reason - many commercial areas are obviously not for the public domain.)
Two separate forums (fora?) were set up - the Supporters Council (SC)and the Patrons Council (PC) with the intention that they would meet regularly and provide two-way communication with the Board.
The SC was reasonably successful for a few years but eventually failed due to the very low numbers of supporters attending, and Covid was the final blow. The current Board seems to be trying various ways of direct communication with fans, such as small informal meetings with reps from supporter groups and larger gatherings open to all fans, rather like the old SC.
The PC did meet a few times, but again numbers attending were quite low and Covid probably did for it too. I also think (just a guess, I could be wrong) that it became very difficult for the Board to be fully transparent during the long discussions and negotiations with potential investors, eventually resulting in the DAFC Fussball involvement. I`m sure there would have been confidentiality agreements in place which would preclude revealing any information.
So probably the meeting next week is an attempt by the Board to close the gap in communication with a group of people who have invested large sums of money in the club and who (through their PUCIC shares) still own a large chunk of the club. Perhaps some Patrons feel that the Board is making wrong/poor decisions and if so this is an opportunity for these concerns to be dealt with openly, so it`s surely to be welcomed.
If I`ve got my facts wrong I hope someone will come along to correct me!
Goid informative post
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Topic Originator: NW 1966
Date: Thu 25 Jan 23:11
I don`t think any level of concern is to be scoffed at. I think this meeting will be a frank and lively event.
Let`s hope there`s a productive and transparent discussion between those attending, because something doesn`t smell right. Well not to me anyway.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Fri 26 Jan 00:02
I would be curious to know if the four original German investors are still in the group. In other words, has there been any change in the structure of DAFC Fussball?
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Fri 26 Jan 06:55
Can you elaborate? I must have missed this announcement.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Fri 26 Jan 08:47
No, that was not what I was asking, EET. I know about the changes to the DAFC board. My question concerned the German company. One of the patrons could ask if there have been any changes to the makeup of DAFC Fussball - if any of the original four investors have pulled out or whether there have been any additions to the investment team. It is a speculative question, but obviously, any change there could have an impact.
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Topic Originator: EastEndTales
Date: Fri 26 Jan 08:55
An I`m saying yes there has. I remember at least one of them has, something that sounds like Albus Dumbledore I forget his name.
If you search Dafc Fussball gmbh you might find it on th companies list.
Ep.17 of East End Tales is out now with Andrius Skerla
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/15082607
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Topic Originator: eastendalloapar
Date: Fri 26 Jan 09:41
Thanks Stanza for explaining this to me.
matt forsyth
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Topic Originator: RhinoPars
Date: Fri 26 Jan 10:46
Stanza wrote "There were minimum investment limits (initially £5k) for Patrons because the risky nature of the Pars United investment meant it had to be restricted to those classed technically as High Net Worth Individuals. The minimum investment sum was reduced to £1k at some point in the process."
This is correct - the initial minimum "investment" to become a Patron was £5k, but the restriction requiring you to be classed as a "High Net Worth Individual" didn`t apply to ex-Pats living outside the UK (such as myself). Due to time constraints and costs, I recall at the time it was not possible/feasible to produce the kind of detailed investment prospectus that would have been needed to allow more people to "invest" as Patrons.
Living in Africa, I have never been able to physically attend any of the Patrons` council meetings, although I was able to join in on one virtual meeting a while back when some of the German investors introduced themselves and what they hoped to achieve.
Post Edited (Fri 26 Jan 10:53)
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Fri 26 Jan 11:03
Quote:
RhinoPars, Fri 26 Jan 10:46
Due to time constraints and costs, I recall at the time it was not possible/feasible to produce the kind of detailed investment prospectus that would have been needed to allow more people to "invest" as Patrons.
Good point. There was a lot of midnight oil being burned at the time!
_________________
Support Dunfermline Athletic Disabled Supporters` Club (DADSC) when you shop online with one of 8000 firms: https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/dadsc[
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Topic Originator: NW 1966
Date: Tue 30 Jan 19:06
Hopefully get some feedback from tonight`s meeting given the stooshie about emails and disgruntled fans.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 31 Jan 10:03
Are there going to be any `official` minutes of this meeting for general consumption? If not, are any of the fans who shared their concerns about the running of the club with the Forum and were at the meeting able to share the outcome with us?
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Wed 31 Jan 10:57
Quote:
back oh the net, Wed 24 Jan 10:48
So basically in a nutshell a few patrons have finally caved and hit the panic button and have decided to hold a meeting about which way the Germans are taking the club does that just about cover it?
Is it not standard practice for an unscheduled meeting to require a certain number of shareholders to make an official motion to that effect ?
How many constitutes a “few” here ?
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Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74
Date: Wed 31 Jan 11:14
Quote:
wee eck, Wed 31 Jan 10:03
Are there going to be any `official` minutes of this meeting for general consumption? If not, are any of the fans who shared their concerns about the running of the club with the Forum and were at the meeting able to share the outcome with us?
I would hope not. Clearly a private meeting.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 31 Jan 11:26
Well, many of us hold shares in the club through the Pars` Supporters` Trust who must have contributed more than £1,000 on their behalf. Presumably someone from the PST was at the meeting. Isn`t he/she accountable to the members of the PST?
There will also be fans who contributed more than £1,000 at the time of the first appeal who didn`t qualify as `patrons` at that time because the threshold was originally set at £5,000 before being subsequently reduced to £1,000. So we have the anomalous situation of some shareholders having been able to attend a meeting which excluded others who contributed more via the PST!
Post Edited (Wed 31 Jan 11:42)
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Wed 31 Jan 11:42
Well it`s a bit daft there being huge debate on here about what the "concerns" were and what the meeting had been called for.......then being rebuffed for asking afterwards what went on as it was actually a "private meeting"
FWIW I couldn`t give a shiny sh1te either way 😃
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: alwaysaPar
Date: Wed 31 Jan 12:14
Quote:
da_no_1, Wed 31 Jan 11:42
Well it`s a bit daft there being huge debate on here about what the "concerns" were and what the meeting had been called for.......then being rebuffed for asking afterwards what went on as it was actually a "private meeting"
FWIW I couldn`t give a shiny sh1te either way 😃
Agreed, delete the thread.
It`s taking up valuable storage space where there are already 594 threads with concerns already.......🤣
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 31 Jan 12:54
None of us know what the concerns of this/ these shareholder(s) is/are but more importantly, whether they are unfounded or genuine.
As fans, all we want is what`s best for our club. If the concerns are unfounded, it doesn`t matter what they were, but if there are genuine reasons for concern, I would want to know what these are and whether those running our club are addressing them.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: NW 1966
Date: Wed 31 Jan 17:12
I think the club should be addressing fans concerns, so it`s correct the meeting went ahead. The Board are accountable to the shareholders given the set up. It would be good if minutes were available in the interests of clarity. Of course fans don`t want to hear bad news and if the club days no issues, then fine, get a statement put out. Never want to be in a position where we ignore everything apart from what`s happening on the pitch. I`ll reserve judgement on this situation.
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Topic Originator: Bannockburn Par
Date: Wed 31 Jan 17:24
The silence is deafening to be honest. Not the open and honest transparency I expected after the Masterton era.
It would be nice if there was a general update from last night to ease fans nerves. Mr Cook been very quiet this season, maybe time for an interview with Pars TV….
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Topic Originator: parsfan
Date: Wed 31 Jan 17:29
If it was bad news wouldn`t it have been all over the internet by now?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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Topic Originator: Bannockburn Par
Date: Wed 31 Jan 17:34
Not necessarily bad news, but to stop the gossip make a general statement. Silence makes us wonder what the hell is going on.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 31 Jan 17:46
To be fair, David Cook probably has other things to do while the transfer window is open.
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Topic Originator: NW 1966
Date: Wed 31 Jan 17:58
`Should the club respond to every piece of nonsense gossip? Nah`
No they shouldn`t.
However, how do you conclude it was all nonsense gossip?
I don`t think most of us do tbf.
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Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore
Date: Wed 31 Jan 18:00
"Not necessarily bad news, but to stop the gossip make a general statement. Silence makes us wonder what the hell is going on."
Best way to stop the gossip might be for the idle gossipers to stop gossiping.
My dog eats meat
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 31 Jan 18:01
Didn`t we have a fan forum not that long ago?
People need to realise the club can`t and shouldn`t give updates on every little thing. People also need to learn to ignore what a 15 year old has said in twitter 😂
I`m sure someone will post an update later but expect nothing more than:
Training facility progressing
Money`s tight
Still seeking to sign players for future to develop/sell
Maybe something about whining Willie who kens and boy who kens a boy and could`ve had the training facility built for 50p.
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Topic Originator: NW 1966
Date: Wed 31 Jan 18:18
Quite: People need to realise the club can`t and shouldn`t give updates on every little thing. People also need to learn to ignore what a 15 year old has said in twitter
Except it wasn`t a 15 year old Twitter. In fact it wasn`t on Twitter.
Concerns about how the club is run, concerns about spend & debt, about the progress of the Academy (update out today, strange that eh?), curiosity about the actual details of the clubs high level plan, nothing wrong in pursuing clarity on any of those items. The Board are accountable to the shareholders, that`s important to remember. I`ve no knowledge of what was asked or the answers given, unless an individual was there none of us will. However I am curious about the response as I`m like everyone else a fan. I`ve supported the Board since Day 1, in principle I still trust them, but I think if certain fans have concerns it`s right to ask for transparency and clarity.
Truth is I don`t give a flying **** who runs the club, as long as we`re in a good place.
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Topic Originator: dover par
Date: Wed 31 Jan 18:25
.net paranoia at its finest
"Pressure is something you feel when you don't know what the hell you're doing."
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Topic Originator: EastEndTales
Date: Wed 31 Jan 18:28
Quote:
NW 1966, Wed 31 Jan 17:58
`Should the club respond to every piece of nonsense gossip? Nah`
No they shouldn`t.
However, how do you conclude it was all nonsense gossip?
I don`t think most of us do tbf.
Probably because of the lack of any ground breaking rumours today in the wake of the meeting.
Ep.17 of East End Tales is out now with Andrius Skerla
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1972630/15082607
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 31 Jan 18:44
It seems odd to have a meeting to allay any concerns and then not report the outcome. Even if the club says nothing surely the fans who vented their concerns on here could give some reassurance? A lack of frankness just breeds suspicion.
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Wed 31 Jan 18:58
If it was a private meeting then they’ve no reason to share / show minutes to anyone other than the attendees.
If they want to provide the outcome of the meeting to the whole support base then fgs give them a chance - it was only last night the meeting took place.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 31 Jan 19:01
Quote:
NW 1966, Wed 31 Jan 18:18
Quite: People need to realise the club can`t and shouldn`t give updates on every little thing. People also need to learn to ignore what a 15 year old has said in twitter
Except it wasn`t a 15 year old Twitter. In fact it wasn`t on Twitter.
Concerns about how the club is run, concerns about spend & debt, about the progress of the Academy (update out today, strange that eh?), curiosity about the actual details of the clubs high level plan, nothing wrong in pursuing clarity on any of those items. The Board are accountable to the shareholders, that`s important to remember. I`ve no knowledge of what was asked or the answers given, unless an individual was there none of us will. However I am curious about the response as I`m like everyone else a fan. I`ve supported the Board since Day 1, in principle I still trust them, but I think if certain fans have concerns it`s right to ask for transparency and clarity.
Truth is I don`t give a flying **** who runs the club, as long as we`re in a good place.
You`ll be able to read the accounts in a few months. Job`s a good`un. Simple fact is the club is a business and regular financial forecasts are only really for the eyes of the shareholders. Do you see any other clubs giving regular updates?
Reference to twitter related to an earlier comment re: rumours on twitter.
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Topic Originator: NW 1966
Date: Wed 31 Jan 19:13
Yep the clubs accounts will be announced and always make interesting reading. 👍
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Wed 31 Jan 19:45
The statement about the training ground will be a result of the meeting,
I`m willing to bet the meeting was probably some disgruntled investors upset about not being kept in the loop, when infact there is not much information to share that hasn`t already been said.
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Topic Originator: alwaysaPar
Date: Wed 31 Jan 20:25
With the amount of use of the word `concerns` , it now seems to be trending on X......😉
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Topic Originator: elvis_lives
Date: Wed 31 Jan 20:38
Quote:
weemike, Wed 31 Jan 19:45
The statement about the training ground will be a result of the meeting,
I`m willing to bet the meeting was probably some disgruntled investors upset about not being kept in the loop, when infact there is not much information to share that hasn`t already been said.
Sounds a reasonable assessment.
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