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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Fri 23 Feb 20:50
This isn`t a coincidence. We really, really, REALLY need to ask questions about WTF is going on in training. We need to get an experienced manager coach like Craig Levein to come in and assess what we are doing that is causing so much injury. This is beyond the joke. Someone or something is to blame.
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Topic Originator: RMGpar
Date: Fri 23 Feb 21:03
Why would the Stjohnstone manager come and have a look?
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Fri 23 Feb 21:11
Because he lives nearby. Just an example of someone who could do it.
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Topic Originator: Berkey
Date: Fri 23 Feb 21:23
A few of them appear to be from rushing players back, it might not have been a recurrence of the original injury but the side effect is another knock picked up
The post below replying to me is by one of .nets finest champions of mediocrity!
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Fri 23 Feb 21:25
Add Benji to the list…..
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Topic Originator: Geordiepar
Date: Fri 23 Feb 21:26
There is no evidence to back that up Berkey, just your opinion.
Post Edited (Fri 23 Feb 21:26)
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Topic Originator: Geordiepar
Date: Fri 23 Feb 21:29
Wrong thread
Post Edited (Fri 23 Feb 21:36)
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Topic Originator: DBA
Date: Fri 23 Feb 21:51
Quote:
OzPar, Fri 23 Feb 20:50
This isn`t a coincidence. We really, really, REALLY need to ask questions about WTF is going on in training. We need to get an experienced manager coach like Craig Levein to come in and assess what we are doing that is causing so much injury. This is beyond the joke. Someone or something is to blame.
Lovely pile of nonsense there. Well done.
Levein is the answer? Aye okay.
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Fri 23 Feb 22:12
A mate of mine is involved with Dunfermline Rugby club and one of their coaches was brought in to help at training a wee while ago. Our management team realised that our players were too soft so the wanted to toughen them up and it has obviously back fired.
I heard that Comrie landed awkwardly when jumping at a line out and done his knee and MoH got hurt when a scrum collapsed……
What an opportunity we missed in 2014.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Fri 23 Feb 22:40
DBA, you are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. The difference is I know I am right. There is something amiss in our training regime. An experienced coach with an independent eye would be able to pick it up.
I used Levein as an example simply because he lives nearby. Football managers don`t live in a vacuum; they occasionally pop in and visit other managers. It just needs somebody not connected with the club to take a look.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Fri 23 Feb 22:56
You know you`re right?!
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Fri 23 Feb 22:57
Surely Levein will be at work, training the St Johnstone team, so he won`t really have the time to pop in.
I guess no one on here will really know what`s going on, if I were to guess I think it`s a case of a squad stretched far too thin, players in need of a rest, and players coming back from injury far too soon
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Topic Originator: alwaysaPar
Date: Fri 23 Feb 23:52
Quote:
OzPar, Fri 23 Feb 22:40
DBA, you are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. The difference is I know I am right. There is something amiss in our training regime. An experienced coach with an independent eye would be able to pick it up.
I used Levein as an example simply because he lives nearby. Football managers don`t live in a vacuum; they occasionally pop in and visit other managers. It just needs somebody not connected with the club to take a look.
Thousands of miles away, but he knows .....🤣🤣
Jurgen Klopp, ' I've had a helluva lot injuries this season, mmmmm I wonder.......
'Pep it's Jurgen, you're only 30 miles away, do you fancy heading along and having a look at our training because our injuries are shocking right now'.......🤣🤣🤣
Post Edited (Fri 23 Feb 23:56)
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 24 Feb 00:17
Okay... okay. In management of any sort, if you get a recurring problem, it is not a coincidence; there is a cause. A good manager will call in a contemporary he trusts from outside to take a fresh look at the problem and see if he or she can spot the cause.
Laugh all you like. I know I am right.
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Sat 24 Feb 00:23
Quote:
OzPar, Sat 24 Feb 00:17
Okay... okay. In management of any sort, if you get a recurring problem, it is not a coincidence; there is a cause. A good manager will call in a contemporary he trusts from outside to take a fresh look at the problem and see if he or she can spot the cause.
Laugh all you like. I know I am right.
I don`t think you can say, with 100% confidence, that you are right. You may be right, but it may just be coincidental. Last year we were lucky, having hardly any injuries, this year it`s gone the other way.
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Topic Originator: Rigger Al
Date: Sat 24 Feb 00:48
Quote:
red-star-par, Sat 24 Feb 00:23
Quote:
OzPar, Sat 24 Feb 00:17
Okay... okay. In management of any sort, if you get a recurring problem, it is not a coincidence; there is a cause. A good manager will call in a contemporary he trusts from outside to take a fresh look at the problem and see if he or she can spot the cause.
Laugh all you like. I know I am right.
I don`t think you can say, with 100% confidence, that you are right. You may be right, but it may just be coincidental. Last year we were lucky, having hardly any injuries, this year, it`s gone the other way.
I agree with Oz to a certain degree ,many companies bring in an independent third party company to assess and give their outside expert opinion
Sometimes when your too close to the problem your not seeing the problem
Makes sense
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Topic Originator: Parsfangaz
Date: Sat 24 Feb 02:38
Quote:
OzPar, Fri 23 Feb 20:50
This isn`t a coincidence. We really, really, REALLY need to ask questions about WTF is going on in training. We need to get an experienced manager coach like Craig Levein to come in and assess what we are doing that is causing so much injury. This is beyond the joke. Someone or something is to blame.
WTF you on about 🚀
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 24 Feb 03:28
Ah typical Parsfangaz. He wouldn`t know how to manage the toilet…
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Topic Originator: back oh the net
Date: Sat 24 Feb 04:53
Quote:
OzPar, Fri 23 Feb 20:50
This isn`t a coincidence. We really, really, REALLY need to ask questions about WTF is going on in training. We need to get an experienced manager coach like Craig Levein to come in and assess what we are doing that is causing so much injury. This is beyond the joke. Someone or something is to blame.
Away and give yourself a hoover Craig levein 😂😂😂 that man lost all credibility the night he went 4-6-0 in Prague
On a side note if the injury to comrie is ACL related as I have seen posted elsewhere then that could happen at any time all it takes is to get your studs caught in the turf when you turn to quick and bang that’s you done but to be perfectly honest if it was the training methods to blame then would we not have had a shed load of injuries last season as well? as I can’t see training being much different this season compared to last season
Come on ye pars ⚽️
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Topic Originator: back oh the net
Date: Sat 24 Feb 05:04
Quote:
OzPar, Sat 24 Feb 00:17
Okay... okay. In management of any sort, if you get a recurring problem, it is not a coincidence; there is a cause. A good manager will call in a contemporary he trusts from outside to take a fresh look at the problem and see if he or she can spot the cause.
Laugh all you like. I know I am right.
Genuine question here but have you been sniffing glue or dropping acid? MoH took a hefty kick against Arbroath so his absence could well be related to that as for other players who have a recurrence of the same injury it could simply be a case of that part of the body isn’t as strong as it used to be case in point being Lewis Vaughan who has had 3 maybe 4 career threatening knee injuries was that down to the training methods John mcglyn used at raith or was it because his knees are now made of chocolate after his first couple of knee injuries?
Come on ye pars ⚽️
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Topic Originator: par-91
Date: Sat 24 Feb 06:03
Quote:
OzPar, Fri 23 Feb 22:40
DBA, you are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. The difference is I know I am right. There is something amiss in our training regime. An experienced coach with an independent eye would be able to pick it up.
I used Levein as an example simply because he lives nearby. Football managers don`t live in a vacuum; they occasionally pop in and visit other managers. It just needs somebody not connected with the club to take a look.
I’m sorry, but the tone of that post is absolutely stinking. You start off by saying people are entitled to opinions, then go on to claim your opinion is fact. Reeks of arrogance.
I actually agree with the point (I think) you’re trying to make. I think the club need to take time to review the injury situation and see what changes need to be made, to avoid a similar situation.
There are a lot of possible causes for this and getting an external party in to review things might help. Issues could range from bad luck (which is definitely the case for some of the injuries), poor quality of training surface, players not being honest enough to admit when they have a niggle (until it becomes serious), or medical/coaching staff not taking required action/precaution. The reality is, nobody here knows exactly what’s gone wrong. All we know, is the problem(s) needs to be fixed.
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Sat 24 Feb 06:19
Quote:
Geordiepar, Fri 23 Feb 21:26
There is no evidence to back that up Berkey, just your opinion.
Comrie came out a few weeks back saying he played while not being fit to help the boys out.
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: Alter Ego
Date: Sat 24 Feb 06:49
Get Craig Leven to have a look at our players training?? Post of the season FFS!
Mon the Pars!
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Topic Originator: RossF
Date: Sat 24 Feb 06:57
Injuries have been a major concern this season and we do need to look at what’s went wrong this season and ensure a crisis like this doesn’t happen again. Some players have been unlucky but it’s pretty evident that some have been rushed back - like Bene, Fisher and Breen. If we didn’t risk Bene against Ayr and Raith, would he be back playing regularly now??
Hopefully we survive this season and come back stronger next season.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 24 Feb 07:44
Jeez... it is like conversing with school kids on here sometimes. You all love to pile on, don`t you? Idiots!
Okay, Levein was a bad example. He was the first top-line coach I could think of who lived in the area without a connection to the club. My bad.
I don`t go back on my comment that an independent review of our training is required.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 24 Feb 08:06
I`d be surprised if the club hadn`t had an investigation into the increased incidence of injuries this season, in fact I think the manager may have said that they had, but whether it involved an outside agency is another matter.
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Topic Originator: DBA
Date: Sat 24 Feb 08:10
Quote:
OzPar, Sat 24 Feb 07:44
Jeez... it is like conversing with school kids on here sometimes. You all love to pile on, don`t you? Idiots!
Okay, Levein was a bad example. He was the first top-line coach I could think of who lived in the area without a connection to the club. My bad.
I don`t go back on my comment that an independent review of our training is required.
I think we should get an independent review of this thread, someone not connected to the site, to determine who the idiots are.
I know who they`ll decide is the idiot because I know I`m right.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 24 Feb 08:31
It is possibly a difficult concept for you to grasp, DBA, but I actually know what I am talking about.
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Topic Originator: Indiapar
Date: Sat 24 Feb 08:35
One of the things that does surprise me is I see players walking around in shorts after games in very cold temperatures. I`m not sure if they do the same in training. When I was young, we spent 30 minutes warming up with clothing layers on before we did any training. I`m not sure if the science has changed
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Topic Originator: Alter Ego
Date: Sat 24 Feb 08:59
Independent review of our training?? And Ozpar calls us school kids and idiots😅
The training is like any other training you see in football….warm up..session and a warm down.
Mon the Pars!
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Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford
Date: Sat 24 Feb 09:07
I`m sure looking at training methods has crossed their mind this season.
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Sat 24 Feb 10:33
Quote:
OzPar, Sat 24 Feb 08:31
It is possibly a difficult concept for you to grasp, DBA, but I actually know what I am talking about.
OzPar probably does have a bit of a point, although throughout this thread has come across as really arrogant, which isn`t a good look and weakens his argument.
I`d be shocked if the club didn`t keep records of the injuries this season and how they happened and would imagine McPake and Co have been going over everything again and again to see if there is something else they could be doing differently
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 24 Feb 10:44
Struggling to see how anyone can disagree with OzPar on this. In any walk of life you can identify an issue and look into it yourself but not spot the cause. Someone else can wander in and immediately go "It`s X". Levein, as an example, would have nothing to lose giving McPake an hour of his time to observe a training session.
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Topic Originator: CrossPar
Date: Sat 24 Feb 11:37
While the suggestion may have been sound, the choice of Levein was not. Why should he know any more about training and injuries than Mcpake and Mackay? If he had suggested a proper specialist, the argument would have been more credible.
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Topic Originator: Geordiepar
Date: Sat 24 Feb 11:40
This thread is everything that’s wrong with this forum.
First of all, anyone who usually says ‘I know what I’m talking about’ on a fans forum is normally talking out of a hole in their backside. Unless you are a qualified sports physio with access to the Dunfermline players data then no, you don’t ’know what you’re talking about’. The fact you even think Levein is someone who should be brought in suggests you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
I assume Levein should also go down and oversee Liverpool’s training for a few days.
There was a link on this forum to the increasing number of injuries recently which was posted in the this forum, a scientific paper which had the general conclusion that in the majority of injuries there was no underlying reason.
Now, first of all Levein isn’t a sports physio, and so probably wouldn’t be the best person to evaluate our training methods etc. Our injuries can result from a myriad of things, we could just be very unlucky with the number of injuries, it could be an issue with players being rushed back, it could be an issue with training. Quite simply we don’t know, but as per usual posters come on here stating there ‘opinion’ as fact.
It probably would be a good ideas to get someone qualified in to review our training/physio etc to make sure that there is nothing obvious which can be changed which may help, if they haven’t already. That doesn’t mean there are issues.
Post Edited (Sat 24 Feb 14:13)
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Topic Originator: JTH123
Date: Sat 24 Feb 13:58
What leaves me shaking my head and laughing in equal measure is when people say "they need to do this and stop doing that" - whether it be injuries or other things related to the running of the team or the club, is they never seem to consider that the club may have already identified and addressed the issue and are already actioning their conclusion.
Post Edited (Sat 24 Feb 13:59)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 24 Feb 14:14
I know what you mean, JTH. There seems to be a presumption among some fans that everyone running the club is totally clueless!
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 24 Feb 20:53
What a shower of Aberdeen fishwives! And no, I have not been on the sauce or, as one kind gentleman suggested, "sniffing glue or dropping acid". FFS.
I thought I had explained my reasoning for calling for an independent review and, indeed, why I offered Craig Levein as an example, for which I subsequently actually apologised. But no, some of you still come screaming straw man arguments at me.
For the umpteenth time, I am not claiming expertise as a sports scientist or a physio; I am simply reflecting on the lessons of being in management for most of my lifetime. Some of you call my approach arrogant, and you may well be correct. I generally tend towards humility, but that is rarely appropriate when you are under attack.
So many of you seem to miss my point; the Pars management team can look and relook at the problems they are facing week after week with player injuries and still miss a key item that someone from outside would perhaps quickly spot. It doesn`t have to be a highly paid consultant; it can be a fellow manager popping in for a while to look at the structure, methods, and practices engaged in training.
That is all I am trying to say.
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Topic Originator: Alter Ego
Date: Sat 24 Feb 21:02
Just get back on the bevy big man and take care 😅😅😅
Mon the Pars!
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Topic Originator: Alter Ego
Date: Sat 24 Feb 21:04
And tell your Neebur Thaipar wank to do one😅😅
Mon the Pars!
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 24 Feb 21:13
Popcorn ready
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Sat 24 Feb 21:49
The reasons we have had so many injuries will be a combination of a few different factors.
Bad Luck.
Rushing some players back too soon.
Players desperate to get back playing.
Training methods.
Physio.
I am guessing that the first one has been the over riding factor.
One thing for sure I can never remember a season like it.
Injuries occur at every club. Having players out for two or three weeks here and there is normal but we have had a plethora of players out for a month or more and some players more than once.
Looking at the players who have been out for a month or more is astonishing.
Off the top of my head….
Mehmet, Ankle
Comrie, calf, ACL
Fisher, hamstring
Bene, foot, thigh, thigh
Breen, hamstring, an other ?
Tod ?
Todd, ankle, hamstring
KRH, ankle, knee, shoulder
McCann, hamstring
Summers, ankle
Jakubiak, hamstring
Whighton, knee
What an opportunity we missed in 2014.
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Topic Originator: sonofpetrie
Date: Sat 24 Feb 22:54
Quote:
desparado, Sat 24 Feb 21:49
The reasons we have had so many injuries will be a combination of a few different factors.
Bad Luck.
Rushing some players back too soon.
Players desperate to get back playing.
Training methods.
Physio.
I am guessing that the first one has been the over riding factor.
One thing for sure I can never remember a season like it.
Injuries occur at every club. Having players out for two or three weeks here and there is normal but we have had a plethora of players out for a month or more and some players more than once.
Looking at the players who have been out for a month or more is astonishing.
Off the top of my head….
Mehmet, Ankle
Comrie, calf, ACL
Fisher, hamstring
Bene, foot, thigh, thigh
Breen, hamstring, an other ?
Tod ?
Todd, ankle, hamstring
KRH, ankle, knee, shoulder
McCann, hamstring
Summers, ankle
Jakubiak, hamstring
Whighton, knee
Heads, shoulders knees and toes (knees and toes).
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary"
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Topic Originator: Geordiepar
Date: Sat 24 Feb 23:08
OzPar you’re getting flak as you come across as a condescending pr*k in your posts.
Your opening posts says someone is to blame, and that you know you’re right.
The whole basis of this is that have a life of working in a management role and the solution to every problem is to get some external in and they’ll be able to identify the issue.
First of all, has it ever crossed your mind that other posters may also have worked in management their whole life?
Have you ever considered that the club may already have had external people in to look at the position?
Have you ever considered that not every problem can be solved in the way you suggest?
Have you ever considered the scientific reports into injuries which suggest there is no specific underlying factor in a lot of cases?
It wasn’t necessarily what you said which had people replying, but the manner in which you said it and the I know I’m right bollocks you came out with.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 24 Feb 23:36
Fair enough, Geordiepar. I`ll wear that. Of course, I have considered the points you made. Clearly, others on here have been in management roles. Indeed, some have recognised my points and come to my support.
You are incorrect when you say my first post says someone is to blame, and I know I am right. I actually said, "Someone or something is to blame".
My reference to being right was in response to a post by DBA, which said: "Lovely pile of nonsense there. Well done. Levein is the answer? Aye okay."
I responded to this word salad: "DBA, you are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. The difference is I know I am right. There is something amiss in our training regime. An experienced coach with an independent eye would be able to pick it up. I used Levein as an example simply because he lives nearby... it just needs somebody not connected with the club to take a look."
Now, Geordiepar, you may well be right that my attitude got in the way of my argument. I am sure I come across as a pr*k sometimes, but in that respect, on dotnet, I am far from being alone.
:)
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Topic Originator: DBA
Date: Sat 24 Feb 23:43
Quote:
OzPar, Sat 24 Feb 23:36
I am sure I come across as a pr*k sometimes
Most sense you`ve spoken on the whole thread.
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Topic Originator: Geordiepar
Date: Sat 24 Feb 23:44
A good response Oz, so let’s draw a line under it.
I think if you’d said that the club should try and get someone external in to review the training/physio side of things due to the high number of injuries, if they haven’t already, no-one would have disagreed.
And as for your last sentence, I think we can all come across that way sometimes, myself included.
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Topic Originator: Rigger Al
Date: Sun 25 Feb 00:53
Quote:
CrossPar, Sat 24 Feb 11:37
While the suggestion may have been sound, the choice of Levein was not. Why should he know any more about training and injuries than Mcpake and Mackay? If he had suggested a proper specialist, the argument would have been more credible.
Ffs it was a open suggestion from Ozpar he clearly said as a option to a senior professional who is local
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Topic Originator: GJS93
Date: Mon 26 Feb 11:46
"“Unfortunately Aaron Comrie’s season is over with a medial ligament injury to his knee. It was just a challenge in training where he blocked a shot and it opened his knee up. He is such a key player for us and we are bitterly disappointed.”
quote from McPake.
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Mon 26 Feb 11:59
Quote:
GJS93, Mon 26 Feb 11:46
"“Unfortunately Aaron Comrie’s season is over with a medial ligament injury to his knee. It was just a challenge in training where he blocked a shot and it opened his knee up. He is such a key player for us and we are bitterly disappointed.”
quote from McPake.
Not good, probably exactly when the new boy was brought in for RB cover
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 26 Feb 12:04
It`s scary to think blocking a shot can cause such a serious injury. It`s almost as if playing football has become a hazardous occupation.
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Topic Originator: Angus_W
Date: Mon 26 Feb 14:05
A thread about players injury`s turns into an online verbal punchup!
Hope all participants are okay and no-one got injured :)
“.........it ain’t over till the Pars score!”
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