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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 11 Mar 13:48
I see a mention on the East End Bounce forum of a `Fans` communication session` this Thursday organised through the Supporters` Liaison Officer, Drew Main. Has anyone on here been invited or does anyone know anything about it?
Post Edited (Mon 11 Mar 15:34)
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Mon 11 Mar 14:42
I’ve messaged Brian to say I’m available if he can’t make it - and I can write up notes here (not live updates).
It’s for the fans supporters groups.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 11 Mar 15:08
Really appreciate your typing skills, Buffy! Will be great to see updates for those unable to attend.
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Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Mon 11 Mar 15:34
or those not on the inner circle so not invited to attend
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Topic Originator: Digs
Date: Mon 11 Mar 15:54
I`m certainly not in any inner circle, but I will be there. It`s representatives of various fans groups that are invited. I`m going to rep EEB, invited by Drew Main, the SLO, and there are people usually there from groups like Section NW, young fans, travel buses, the disabled supporters club, Pars Trust etc.
If you feel like you aren`t represented then you can always contact Drew directly.
Stair Maistreas na Beatha
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 11 Mar 16:14
Quote:
Playup_Pompey, Mon 11 Mar 15:34
or those not on the inner circle so not invited to attend
Dry your eyes
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: theparsman1885
Date: Mon 11 Mar 16:18
da_no_1 wrote:
> Quote:
Playup_Pompey, Mon 11 Mar 15:34
>
> or those not on the inner circle so not invited to
> attend
>
> Dry your eyes
>
>
You are an awfully angry man on the forums. On P&B and EEB you are a bit lighter but on here it’s where you are at your worst. I saw a poster on another forum ask if you’re ok, and you took umbrage - but maybe he had a point?
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 11 Mar 16:19
I wonder if Brian is going? He`ll have a hard job representing the diverse opinions expressed on here!
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Topic Originator: theparsman1885
Date: Mon 11 Mar 16:21
Back on topic, better that there is a meeting rather than none. A forum for all supporters would be better but weren’t there concerns that these weren’t productive?
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 11 Mar 16:29
Quote:
theparsman1885, Mon 11 Mar 16:18
da_no_1 wrote:
> Quote:
Playup_Pompey, Mon 11 Mar 15:34
>
> or those not on the inner circle so not invited to
> attend
>
> Dry your eyes
>
You are an awfully angry man on the forums. On P&B and EEB you are a bit lighter but on here it’s where you are at your worst. I saw a poster on another forum ask if you’re ok, and you took umbrage - but maybe he had a point?
It`s not anger. It`s frustration at folk looking to cause division about something as simple as a supporters meeting. Maybe I should just bite my tongue but its easier said than done these days.
That particular poster on EEB was obviously being wide. I was and am fine. I can`t be bothered discussing it here but read the whole thread.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: skbb
Date: Mon 11 Mar 16:44
DASC get invited to these meetings. I can assure you we are not in an inner circle either. Only 1 rep from.each group gets invited
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Mon 11 Mar 16:55
wee eck, I`m not able to go.
regardless of here or elsewhere, fans have wide ranging opnions on all subjects.
constructive dialogue is needed.
Post Edited (Mon 11 Mar 16:57)
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Topic Originator: theparsman1885
Date: Mon 11 Mar 17:04
Da no 1, I did read the whole thread. I understand you are frustrated. 👍
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 11 Mar 17:07
Quote:
theparsman1885, Mon 11 Mar 17:04
Da no 1, I did read the whole thread. I understand you are frustrated. 👍
No problem. I`ll apologise in advance for my comment above. I need to, politely, shut my puss.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 11 Mar 17:08
I take your point, Brian. Presumably there is a list of organisations which are invited to such meetings so the wide body of fans wouldn`t necessarily hear about them.
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Mon 11 Mar 17:18
I’m not able to attend now. Apologies.
Please check the notes for the meeting on EEB.
Cheers.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
Post Edited (Wed 13 Mar 18:42)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 11 Mar 17:20
That`s great, buffy. It`ll be good to get some feedback.
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Topic Originator: GG4
Date: Mon 11 Mar 17:33
"Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 11 Mar 17:07
Quote:
theparsman1885, Mon 11 Mar 17:04
Da no 1, I did read the whole thread. I understand you are frustrated. 👍
No problem. I`ll apologise in advance for my comment above. I need to, politely, shut my puss."
Lets hope so eh.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Mon 11 Mar 18:23
Quote:
buffy, Mon 11 Mar 17:18
I’m going in Brian’s place.
As Digs says it’s for reps of supporters clubs these meetings. Dotnet and EEB are both known as supporters clubs in this respect so our reps will be there in attendance.
I want to highlight it though it won’t be live updates - just note taking and I’ll get ours on here as soon as I get home.
FWIW Digs and Piracy will probably get there afore me!
Just a quick one - how is a fans forum classed as a supporters club? 🤔 and how do you (not personally btw) represent the wide variety of views on here? Would take a week just to digest a match thread…
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Mon 11 Mar 18:39
It’s not about what people post - it’s a meeting place for supporters.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: Digs
Date: Mon 11 Mar 18:45
It will more than likely take the form of them giving updates on recent points of interest or things they want to get out there followed by questions.
I don’t think anyone thinks a forum is a supporters club but it does have access to a large group of people to get info out there.
If there are specific things you want asked, they can do their best to get them asked, time willing at the end. Obviously though, personally speaking at least, we can’t monopolize the time or the questions. I always try and ask things that I’m asked as well as things that come to mind as the conversation is going as it’s a pretty fluid format so questions you intended to ask are maybe already answered before you ask them or the conversation takes a different path and you end up with a more pertinent question at the time.
Also, sometimes folk go with the same questions in mind and they already get asked before you get the chance. We’re all Pars fans remember so everyone mostly has the same concerns.
Stair Maistreas na Beatha
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 11 Mar 18:59
Quote:
GG4, Mon 11 Mar 17:33
"Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 11 Mar 17:07
Quote:
theparsman1885, Mon 11 Mar 17:04
Da no 1, I did read the whole thread. I understand you are frustrated. 👍
No problem. I`ll apologise in advance for my comment above. I need to, politely, shut my puss."
Lets hope so eh.
Insightful as ever
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Mon 11 Mar 19:22
Quote:
Digs, Mon 11 Mar 18:45
It will more than likely take the form of them giving updates on recent points of interest or things they want to get out there followed by questions.
I don’t think anyone thinks a forum is a supporters club but it does have access to a large group of people to get info out there.
If there are specific things you want asked, they can do their best to get them asked, time willing at the end. Obviously though, personally speaking at least, we can’t monopolize the time or the questions. I always try and ask things that I’m asked as well as things that come to mind as the conversation is going as it’s a pretty fluid format so questions you intended to ask are maybe already answered before you ask them or the conversation takes a different path and you end up with a more pertinent question at the time.
Also, sometimes folk go with the same questions in mind and they already get asked before you get the chance. We’re all Pars fans remember so everyone mostly has the same concerns.
Ok, fair enough, good enough explanation for me 👍🏻 lets hope it yields positive results
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 11 Mar 19:32
Folks do realise Brian does more than support the running of this forum?
If people have FOMO then message Drew and see if you can be accommodated.
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Mon 11 Mar 19:54
So, Buffy is going instead of Brian representing dafc.net and Digs is going representing the other forum? After Buffys uncalled for dig at Digs on the Stephens thread last week, that might get a bit tasty - might want to sit them well apart
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Mon 11 Mar 19:58
We’re both adults RSP, unlike yourself.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Mon 11 Mar 20:02
Quote:
buffy, Mon 11 Mar 19:58
We’re both adults RSP, unlike yourself.
Haha, very good. I look forward to reading the updates anyway, Digs does a superb job
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Topic Originator: NikNakPar
Date: Mon 11 Mar 20:40
This forum is comedy gold.
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Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford
Date: Mon 11 Mar 20:43
This is, of course, a wild generalisation and should be treated as such. But in life you tend to find the folk doing lots and lots of complaining, especially about being left out of things, and the folk giving up loads of their spare time, often unthanked (and often the opposite) do not meet often in the Venn diagram of life.
Probably going to regret posting this but there you are.
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Topic Originator: theparsman1885
Date: Mon 11 Mar 21:09
RSP - naughty.
No bun fights please we’re all Pars fans.
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Thu 14 Mar 08:52
I can’t make it tonight so if you can please read the summary which will be provided on the East End Bounce forum.
If you’re going to cut and paste on to here please can you credit the writers of the notes as it’s not always an easy task at meetings such as these. Cheers.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: NW 1966
Date: Thu 14 Mar 13:43
Once posted over there, I`ll post it over here too.
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Topic Originator: Digs
Date: Thu 14 Mar 22:44
Just back in, and this has taken me nearly 90 mins to decipher my horrendous corrie-fisted handwriting and type up so sorry for the delay! 🤣
As usual, it`s not necessarily what was said word for word verbatim, as it`s not easy to listen and write at the same time, and it`s not necessarily in the order it was discussed as some things came round more than once so I`ve consolidated those together.
It`s also not every single thing that was spoken about as some of it was conversational and tbh, was just that, people`s opinions and conversations, so not really worthy of including as it was just chat and isn`t really an update.
As always, this is just what was said, and only some parts are my opinion, which I will make clear, so don`t shoot the messenger!
David Cook spoke first and gave a club update, and the manager gave his update on some things then took questions which formed the largest part of the discussion.
He thanked us for coming and reiterated it is important to get in front of the fans, win, lose or draw, something the manager spoke about too.
Obviously, the fairly large elephant in the room was finances. They are obviously disappointed to be posting such a big loss but he went on to give reasons to try and give context whilst not discussing full specifics. They did budget for the losses, and spent money to try and give the manager the best possible backing to get out of league 1. They won`t apologise for doing that.
Rising cost in the world we are living in account for some of this too. Energy, cost of supplies etc, have hit the club like everyone else.
Rosyth was obviously a big part of it. Even with the matched funding and grants, it was over £100k in getting the applications, planning and surveys done for the drainage with another £96k to get it done right. They see Rosyth as integral for the future of the club and again, don`t apologise for trying to build a foundation. (my words here - Basically, it`s more than just breeding players to sell on, it`s about building a football foundation at the club - end)
With the £825k in investment from GMBH and match funding, it allowed us to get the ground to standard and get the pitches down. They hope to be in use and moving all football activities for the club down there some time next month, which is great news.
They left Fife Elite and put that funding into building our own instead of funding the development of players for them to go to other Fife clubs, which did happen. DC - I`m sure the fans wouldn`t have been happy if we hadn`t invested in youth - He does have a point here IMO
The approach isn`t one where they are throwing good money after bad. I`m paraphrasing but they are basically saying that they know they are spending money but it is in a controlled fashion, and GMBH Fussball are fully committed to both funding the progress to this point, ie it`s not been forced or a stretch, they are doing it in a way with which they are comfortable.
Obv
Stair Maistreas na Beatha
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Topic Originator: Digs
Date: Thu 14 Mar 22:45
Apparently there is a character limit - who knew?
Obviously it`s not a sustainable position to be in but GMBH recognise that breaking even is hugely difficult for a football club, especially in the championship.
DC said that he`d like to dispel the myth that we have gone from breaking even to losing money. Some of the reasons we did so for a long time were due to `windfall events` as he referred to them. Things like selling Kevin Nisbet (first transfer fee) playing the OF in the cup.
Last year we were relegated and even winning the league didn`t give us much back - £120k for winning the league. The gap in the championship is huge though, mid-table finish in this league is treble that. We also invested in the squad and the manager (I`ll cover off more of this in the manager part) and heavily incentivised the squad. We budgeted not to finish first, as it was a bit like tempting fate and a bit presumptuous, this is what they meant in the statement about budgeting for two play off games that didn`t happen, and also paid out bonuses to the squad which wasn`t budgeted for. We didn`t get a run in the cup either, so no extra there to make up that shortfall. It was about £150-£200k swing from what was budgeted all tolled.
The truth about breaking even > losses is probably somewhere in the middle in terms of the truth and what people believe. He was in no way saying anything about the previous board or how it was run.
He covered Greg Shields and some of the rumours that DC was behind him leaving. He said absolutely not, and praised him for the job he did in developing a lot of our promising youngsters. He said Greg reached a point in his career where he had to decide if he wanted to continue to pursue a career in the game and decided to go down a different route.
He did say they are talking to 6 or 7 really interesting people for his replacement and those discussions are ongoing.
He covered the assertion/accusations of how `interested/invested` GMBH are saying there is at least one of them over once a month, with 5 of them having been over multiple times over the course of the season and Thomas Meggle coming across once a month on top of that. Nothing has changed in terms of their commitment.
Regarding paid staff, they are doing this to try and professionalise the club. Obviously that has also had an impact on finances too. Alister Burn has just passed his one year in the job and is doing well, they have also brought in a new Ticketing and Events manager. They previously had someone else that didn`t work out but the new guy has settled in well, another Pars fan.
He finished off by saying the supporters have been great, referencing the Airdrie 5k gate as an example of how the fans have continued to stick by the team.
A question was asked about the sustainability of losing money season on season and how is that sustainable. There was a question of when does that come to a point where they say `enough is enough`. I reminde
Stair Maistreas na Beatha
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Topic Originator: Digs
Date: Thu 14 Mar 22:46
A question was asked about the sustainability of losing money season on season and how is that sustainable. There was a question of when does that come to a point where they say `enough is enough`. I reminded DC that even though it is 10 years ago, the wounds of admin are still fresh in some people`s minds, and whilst no-one is really questioning the integrity or motives of GMBH, what reassurances do we have that they won`t just walk away?
Basically, it was reasserted that they absolutely are fully committed and whilst we have made losses, they aren`t phased by this. The emphasis is getting the club to where they want it to be infrastructure-wise, and on a day to day, looking at both costs and revenue and developing ways of improving both. DC said he has a guy coming from Germany to work with him on this who has worked with one of GMBH before on this very thing (can`t remember who it was with, or if it was even said). The extra £300k didn`t have to be requested by the board, they made that investment when it was required without question.
DC was also keen to point out that the rumours around us missing players over the sake of £100 etc is not true. He said we can easily compete with anyone in this league on that point. Every player we have missed has been for footballing or professional reasons. ie going to Rovers over us to fight for a medal/title as opposed to a mid-table (or worse - my words - relegation battle).
To illustrate this he said 3 of our summer targets signed for Premier teams. It was put to him that did we maybe shoot too high and this has cost us and he said he wasn`t going to apologise for the club having ambition and ambitious targets. By the sounds of it, it`s a tough market we`re dealing in and small margins in regards to success or failure in getting deals done.
Whilst they thought Ashcroft was a done deal, it fell through, on the choice of the player for football reasons late in the day. On the flip side, Kane signing for us was the same things as he had another deal agreed for him elsewhere but decided to come to us.
ON deadline day, we had a deal agreed for an international player who was coming up from England, he was coming. Then we got a call to say he had had a late offer to go to Australia, which he couldn`t turn down. The board gave him the option to bring in someone else so they moved for Malakai. None of the deals were `panic signings` they were all players we had been watching. DC then stressed, in summary we would never lose out on a player for the sake of £100pw.
Lastly, he confirmed there had been considerable damage to seats, toilets, and graffiti at Starks on Saturday. It`s not acceptable and this is going to cost the club.
The Manager then gave an update. He is happy with the squad and where we are. He feels that the squad as a whole in regards to the ability in it is better than last year. He`s delighted with the development of the likes of Otoo and Tod, who is now on his way ba
Stair Maistreas na Beatha
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Topic Originator: Digs
Date: Thu 14 Mar 22:46
The Manager then gave an update. He is happy with the squad and where we are. He feels that the squad as a whole in regards to the ability in it is better than last year. He`s delighted with the development of the likes of Otoo and Tod, who is now on his way back.
As an aside, DC said that this group is better than the group we had when he came in, paraphrasing, better team spirit, better attitude as a hole and more together.
Incidentally on Otoo, the manager said he turned down an extension at Celtic on more money to come here, because he wanted to develop his football. Which I think everyone would agree is working out well for him.
In regards to injuries, he feels there are definitely some, in hindsight, that they could have prevented. Bene being one, JM holds his hands up to that. Bene felt himself he was fine and broke down again, but we have changed how we approach this with individuals now to avoid this scenario again. Taking into account how the player feels with the data on the rehab. How they approach the rehab and how they manage them back. Bene wasn`t rushed back per se, he`d done the rehab, but it was maybe still a week or so too soon.
I asked the manager what has changed form last year in regards to injuries. Yes, it`s horrendously unlucky, and I agreed I`d never seen anything like it, but it can`t all be bad luck. What`s changed and what is the data telling us if anything?
He gave a really good explanation saying that they had looked at absolutely everything. All of the traditional markers in the data you look for were showing really high numbers for us, as we press high, and we run a lot. We have actually run more this year on average than last year, and more at top speeds. He took the problem to someone he knows outside of the club for advice, a really good sports scientist who looked at things and made some suggestions. (he was keen to point out this isn`t a reflection on current or previous staff - just a fresh pair of eyes from someone he trusts)
Now we are starting to be a lot more personal in terms of load, baseline load rest etc than we were before. We were working with a too generic approach previously, so we are taking it a lot more individually then we were before in terms of what we`re asking them to do in training, comparing that to what they`ve done in games, when, for how long, at what speed. We are now asking the sports science team to come to him with more info on this to advise on what they should all be doing as individuals. There`s loads more but in short, I was happy with the explanation as he put it down to himself saying maybe it`s a learning curve for him as a young manager, and so we have now implemented changes which we are starting to see the benefit of now with players coming back and staying fit.
As an aside, Chris Kane`s injury is an older recurring one, so the good thing is he knows how to manage his own recovery for it.
He said that if someone had said at this point we`d be
Stair Maistreas na Beatha
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Topic Originator: Digs
Date: Thu 14 Mar 22:47
He said that if someone had said at this point we`d be 5 points of the playoffs he`d probably have taken it, but has also been in the league long enough to realise we are not that far above relegation either. We have a squad of 22 tomorrow, so it`s getting fitter all the time. We always wanted to consolidate this year at the very least, but the main overall aim is still to get this team to the Prem (I took this to mean not necessarily this year, but not in a negative way)
He said he made a statement after 5/6 games that this team will not be relegated and he stands by it.
They never budgeted for the severity of the injuries, and the cost for surgeries has been astronomical. That has obviously come at a cost but it absolutely did NOT affect playing budget.
I also asked are we having to manage the players differently to make sure they don`t make the Bene mistake, and he basically said yes, and they do now. However he pointed out that we have had players putting themselves through it when we were at rock bottom injury wise. Wighton played with an injection against QP. Summers played with an injury that game too. Hammy has a sunken bone in his cheek and was warned it needed surgery or may not be able to be fixed. He was given the choice, and said he wanted the surgery. Next day, he came in and said he`d leave it and play. They told him he didn`t need to do that, but he wanted to put it off so he could help the team.
(My words) I think they are trying to stress that the group has a brilliant attitude, and will run through brick walls four each other, and us. and they just wanted to acknowledge it.
We discussed goals, and lack thereof, and the reasons behind it. When we were 3rd bottom, we had the second best defensive record in terms of goals conceded, and second only to Utd for expected goals, ie chances that should have been converted. It was margins that small that we are working under, which I agree with.
He says that we absolutely have to be scoring goals and we need to get that in the team and they are working on this. They even considered are they working too much on it on training, were they putting them under too much pressure with it? (They weren`t - they changed it up and it made no difference but I think this dispels the part about them not being coached).
On the striker front, they said that Taylor Sutherland is knocking on the door and that they absolutely see him starting soon, and that as a finisher, he`s got it, and scores barrowloads in training. He said he is a great kid with a brilliant attitude, always wants to learn and is always asking questions, wants to learn the game. So, don`t be surprised to see him start a game soon...
I think this is about it, I don`t think I`ve missed anything important. There were a couple of bits and bobs that were conversational etc, but this is the pertinent parts.
If anything isn`t clear, ask below and I`ll try and answer as best I can.
Stair Maistreas na Beatha
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Thu 14 Mar 22:54
Cheers Mike. Great summary.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: Parfect69
Date: Thu 14 Mar 23:02
A good run down and accurate account of the night. I enjoyed it. I got the impression that JMc is really enjoying his time at the pars.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Thu 14 Mar 23:41
Thanks, Digs
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 14 Mar 23:48
Thanks for that update, Digs. A lot of ground was obviously covered tonight and a lot of the concerns which have been raised on this Forum have been addressed. Maybe we should cut everyone involved in running the club a bit of slack.
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Topic Originator: NW 1966
Date: Fri 15 Mar 00:09
Summary of tonight. I got there at 7pm and discussions were underway. I thought it started then, but now realise it started at 6pm, so apologies I missed a huge chunk of information.
James McPake speaking about the bad injury situation this season. Some of the situation could be attributed to his decision making and maybe his naivety as a younger manager. He had overlooked the effects of increasing training for individual players (not all players as physical as each other). Since then they`ve set about adjusting training for each player (where required) after speaking to a top sports scientist. This also led to a full review and how it introduced a learning from experience situation. They now have a regular review every 28 days or so and they`re a lot more educated and effective in managing training and injury. David Cook spoke about how they`ve brought in a new physio who has 15 to 20 years experience in his profession. He also mentioned pitch inconsistency and how it may have added to the injury situation.
The question was asked if there was any concerns about our own pitch? the area under the main stand was mentioned, the persistent rain had caused issues. Pitch hasn`t had any major level of maintenance, but it`s not felt it is yet needed. Also James McPake mentioned the state of some of the pitches we`re asking players to play on.
Drew Main spoke about the damage to the toilets at Starks Park and how inevitably it would cost our club money in damage repair. David Cook spoke about understanding the passion in such games but we`ve all got to moderate our behaviour. The topic of self policing among our fans was discussed. It was felt that this does go on and things are getting better with less objects onto the pitch this season (may be an indicator).
The question was asked of there was anything specific that fans could do to help the club (few examples given as a for instance). The basic answer was, just keep supporting the team home and away in the way we have been doing. James McPake spoke about he always tells his players to go and applaud the fans win or defeat. He stressed he understands fans booing and voicing their frustrations, and they`re absolutely entitled to do so. He also said that the players actually go to the fans at the end of a match regardless (without his persuasion). He spoke about how passionate he felt after our recent win against Partick Thistle and what a lift it gave him and the players. He also said after Dundee he had fell out of love with the game but almost immediately after joining Dunfermline that changed.
Specific mention was made about the recent display in the NW in respect to Harry Melrose passing away. Mr Melrose`s family were touched by this.
Question was asked about the lack of converting chances into goals and just about the lack of goals this season. Some discussion about the reasons for this, the frustration, some mention of statistics, of chances created,chances not taken etc, also ta
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Topic Originator: NW 1966
Date: Fri 15 Mar 00:12
The full text not pasted, rest will go in tomorrow
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Fri 15 Mar 00:17
Thanks for all of that, Digs and NW1966. It sounds pretty positive and reassuring. Many of the concerns the online fans raised seem to have been covered. I am pleased to hear that James McPake went outside the camp to get someone to take a fresh look at the training issues and that problems were identified and addressed. That is a huge positive.
David Cook`s responses to the club`s financial issues seem well explained. I don`t think we are near the problems of the Masterton era. I don`t doubt the Germans` intentions as far as the club is concerned, and having some knowledge through my work of a couple of the Hamburg investors, I don`t have concerns about their financial stability for a minute. Indeed, I understand that while there are four principals of DAFC Fussball, there may be about a dozen backers of the project.
Post Edited (Fri 15 Mar 00:27)
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Fri 15 Mar 00:54
Terrific summaries from Digs and NW1966, thank you.
_________________
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 15 Mar 05:31
Yes, well done, Digs and NW1966. Your efforts are much appreciated. Reading through your notes makes me feel like I was there in person. Any concerns fans may have had were addressed and they will be reassured by the responses from the club and the manager.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: SeasonedPar
Date: Fri 15 Mar 08:22
Thanks to all 3 for your very detailed recalls. Some myths dispelled, especially financial and player injuries, signings and coaching.
Reading it this morning, it all comes across as very positive, a Board with a strong vision and commitment to the club. Good to hear JM being so positive.
There’s no doubt we’re in a very tight league, not helped by the number of players who have played for each other. I think the wee team have 5/6 and Airdrie 5 of our former players? They must know each other inside out and that can make games much tighter.
Really looking forward to tonight’s game now! COYP
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Topic Originator: Indiapar
Date: Fri 15 Mar 08:47
Thanks to everyone who attended and provided feedback. I think it`s important for the club to communicate with the fans, explain the challenges they face to manage the expectation of supporters. Communication is everything. Occasionally it may be a message the fans don`t want to hear but life isn`t perfect. I do think that the club need to think more holistically about how fans can do more to help other than turning up each Saturday. Some fans must have some good ideas about how they can contribute more.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 15 Mar 09:33
Good summary guys, some actual facts to what is happening and the future vision, instead of rumours from this forum!
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Fri 15 Mar 10:30
Digs and NW
Very much appreciated putting up the updates from the meeting 👍👏
____________________
contact: email me
File Share: https://share2.co.uk
ParsTV: https://ParsTV.co.uk
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 15 Mar 10:50
Given the ICT news yesterday, it was interesting to read about their own problems and continuous losses. Whilst it`s great to hear the board are continuing to keep the lights on, I really hope the comments about balancing the books are taken seriously. Like many fans, I`ve wondered where the money is going when we tend to have bigger crowds than other clubs, but the reality is ALL the clubs in this league are losing money and praying for cup draws against big clubs or selling players on. Whilst the training ground/academy is a big expense now, it should save us money in the long run, regardless of if we develop superstars there.
Edited to add: Thanks for the updates.
Post Edited (Fri 15 Mar 10:50)
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Topic Originator: par-91
Date: Fri 15 Mar 11:14
I don’t understand the prize money comments. 5th in the championship is exactly double what league 1 winners get, not triple the amount. If DC is lying about something like that, which is easy to disprove, what makes everyone so sure he’s being honest about everything else?
I honestly do want to believe what he’s saying, but the prize money split is out there. 5th in championship gets 1% of the prize pot, 1st in league 1 gets 0.5%.
Thanks to those that provided updates, it is greatly appreciated.
Post Edited (Fri 15 Mar 11:14)
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Fri 15 Mar 11:18
Big thank you Digs and NW .. Much appreciated
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Fri 15 Mar 11:20
Have they learned from that error,
I.e have they budgeted for 10th this season?
IMO they should budget on the least speculative outcome,
10th in the league 1st round of the cup. Anything else over and above. Including player sales should then service the losses.
I know it`ll be more complicated but if it`s as simple as possible there is less to go wrong.
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Topic Originator: Digs
Date: Fri 15 Mar 11:41
Budgets are based on what is a realistic target rather than what is necessarily prudent.
In very simple terms, if they budget lower it means the manager has less to spend on players. There has to be at least an element of calculated risk to them to allow us to achieve our aims. If you budget for first, there is no cast iron guarantee it gets you there but if you budget for 10th, that`s likely what you`ll achieve.
Stair Maistreas na Beatha
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Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Fri 15 Mar 12:55
"I don’t understand the prize money comments. 5th in the championship is exactly double what league 1 winners get, not triple the amount. If DC is lying about something like that, which is easy to disprove, what makes everyone so sure he’s being honest about everything else?
I honestly do want to believe what he’s saying, but the prize money split is out there. 5th in championship gets 1% of the prize pot, 1st in league 1 gets 0.5%."
Probably overall revenue so by time add in the extra TV money etc we get in Championship we will end up with treble what we did last season as league winners if we finish 5th in level above.
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Fri 15 Mar 13:09
Digs, summarising David Cook`s comments:
"Last year we were relegated and even winning the league didn`t give us much back - £120k for winning the league. The gap in the championship is huge though, mid-table finish in this league is treble that."
PUP:
"I don’t understand the prize money comments. 5th in the championship is exactly double what league 1 winners get, not triple the amount. If DC is lying about something like that, which is easy to disprove, what makes everyone so sure he’s being honest about everything else?
I honestly do want to believe what he’s saying, but the prize money split is out there. 5th in championship gets 1% of the prize pot, 1st in league 1 gets 0.5%."
Probably overall revenue so by time add in the extra TV money etc we get in Championship we will end up with treble what we did last season as league winners if we finish 5th in level above."
TBH I don`t see much difference between Digs` words (he didn`t claim to be reporting verbatim what was said by DC) and PUP`s final sentence - they both say that a mid-table Championship finish is worth about three times as much as winning League One. I don`t think there are grounds there for accusing David Cook of being a liar whose words cannot be trusted!
_________________
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 15 Mar 13:38
Calling into question the whole of David Cook`s explanations to the meeting because of some confusion over his comments on prize money is very disappointing. I found a Youtube video which listed the prize money which each SPFL club earned from competitions in 2022-23 and we came in at 24th out of 42 with £198k. I suppose this is about right for a club that finished 23rd but some clubs benefited from lucrative cup runs. How this prize money compared with the previous season I don`t know but it seems to me to be a relatively paltry sum for a full-time football club. Would it cover the cost of employing any more than 5 first-team players` wages? Whatever the budget was it is obviously very difficult to finance full-time football in Scottish League 1.
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Topic Originator: Grant
Date: Fri 15 Mar 13:44
Probably overall revenue so by time add in the extra TV money etc we get in Championship we will end up with treble what we did last season as league winners if we finish 5th in level above.
You do not get any extra TV money for being in the Championship, the TV money is all pooled and then distributed through all the teams in the league system, so that 150k from last season was including TV money. As would the 300k if we had finished 5th.
If you finish 5th you will get double what the league 1 winners get, there`s no confusion in that wee eck.
https://twitter.com/SPFLWatch/status/1665129997625880576?t=Ok_wWevzOoP_Gk4yTR4bFw&s=19
The figures on the YouTube video will be taken from that.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 15 Mar 13:52
I wasn`t there so I don`t know what he said exactly. It was the inference that if he got this wrong then his explanations as a whole are questionable that annoyed me. Maybe the guy made a genuine mistake - imagine that!
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Fri 15 Mar 14:07
Quote:
wee eck, Fri 15 Mar 13:52
I wasn`t there so I don`t know what he said exactly. It was the inference that if he got this wrong then his explanations as a whole are questionable that annoyed me. Maybe the guy made a genuine mistake - imagine that!
Maybe he accidentally said treble instead of double 🤯🤯🤯
COYP
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 15 Mar 14:34
To be honest I don`t understand the obsession with what the budget was. Budgeting for the financial results of a football club is pretty difficult because of the number of variables which can`t be controlled. I`m surprised no one has questioned why the club didn`t budget for bonuses payable in the event of promotion; that surprised me. But that`s football fans for you. They are as fickle and unpredictable as the fortunes of a football club.
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Topic Originator: Socks
Date: Fri 15 Mar 14:53
Thanks for the reports of what was said - appreciated.
The point about prize money being trebled for a mid-table finish in this league jumped out at me as well as I didn`t think it was right so checked it. The prize money distribution is on pages 41-42 of the SPFL articles of association. We`d need to finish 3rd to treble what we got last year:
https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/images/shares/pdfs/SPFL%20Articles%20of%20Association%20of%2021-Dec-20%20(MASTER%20COPY)%20CLEAN.pdf
Maybe he did make a genuine mistake or maybe the intended meaning got lost in the process of talking, listening and recording. However, taken together with the unconvincing statement that accompanied last season`s accounts being released, the inaccuracy doesn`t give me much reassurance.
In turn, that goes back to the main problem I have with these meetings - it seems that the board are using them as a way of informally putting information out second-hand via a small group of fans rather than actually putting it out directly. It might have its advantages in that it avoids any media articles quoting things the board might not want to be quoted on but I don`t much like it. Second-hand news will always have its issues.
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Fri 15 Mar 15:35
"In turn, that goes back to the main problem I have with these meetings - it seems that the board are using them as a way of informally putting information out second-hand via a small group of fans rather than actually putting it out directly. It might have its advantages in that it avoids any media articles quoting things the board might not want to be quoted on but I don`t much like it. Second-hand news will always have its issues."
I don`t really disagree with that, I much preferred the way it was done by the previous Board with open (Supporters` Council) meetings available to all supporters. But the reality was that after the first few post-administration years hardly any supporters actually turned up for them (much less than 1% of season ticket holders, never mind the extra walk-up fans.) By the end there were more directors and meeting organisers present than ordinary fans.
So I think it was absolutely right to try something different, which is where these more limited and informal meetings come in, aimed at supporter groups. And to be fair to the present Board, my understanding is that they still plan to have some open meetings as well.
One problem with many supporter meetings is that they are often dominated by questions/statements/rants from one or two people, to the extent that others attending don`t feel involved and don`t see the point in their attendance. I`m not suggesting that was the case last night, I wasn`t there so can`t say, but I do think in a small, informal setting there is more opportunity for everyone to speak and participate.
I accept there are ways other than meetings for disseminating information, and I think the club could probably do better there. Maybe if someone has particular skills in that area they could put some suggestions or offers of help to the Chairman or to the SLO.
_________________
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Topic Originator: PansPar
Date: Fri 15 Mar 16:23
Thanks both, great to have such a thorough account of the meeting. It sounded pretty encouraging overall.
Are there any really good examples out there of clubs our size communicating with fans? I`d be interested to know how others do it.
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Topic Originator: Parfect69
Date: Fri 15 Mar 16:36
Like the earlier patrons meeting I left last nights meeting happier/satisfied than when I entered.
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Topic Originator: NW 1966
Date: Sat 16 Mar 05:38
I think the club arranged the meeting in a deliberate effort to quell what was growing noise on social media from the support. That is the right thing to have done as they`re responsible and accountable for the decisions made. Communication between the board and fans is vital for the health of the club. How much value I`d put on this present format is questionable but it`s better than not having any communication sessions.
I`d like to see this as a drumbeat meeting with a rotation of fans from the fan groups attending. We`ve offered fellow fans to go in our place to represent either our bus or the EEB to allow them to hear things for themselves and allowing them to interpret the information for themselves. Regarding interpretation of club information, if it weren`t for the efforts of fans attending actually putting information out there then it really wouldn`t hold much value at all (apart for the those attending). I think the ethos and expectation is that the attendees leave the meetings and distribute the information responsibly among their respective groups
It`s maybe not the most effective communication strategy but it`s better than nothing and it gets people communicating.
I also appreciate there is a finite resource available to support the likes of these meetings, so maybe fans could help a bit more.
Maybe there could be a basic set of TOC` s created in an effort clarify meeting purpose, structure, stressing open dialogue. This would help some attendees understand the concept of open dialogue. I asked a question the other night and was immediately set upon by an attendee who told me my question was none of my business. I had no idea who he was, nor do I care but he has to realise for transparency and development of trust to grow fans have to be allowed to speak. Maybe reading the fans charter (still on the COWS) would be beneficial for him.
I do not ever believe there`s any point in attending these fans meetings and just sitting nodding along as the club representatives speak.
Post Edited (Sat 16 Mar 05:55)
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sat 16 Mar 07:55
Publishing a full set of accounts would have meant that there was no speculation amongst the fans
I do appreciate that, by doing so, would have left the board open to questions on how the club was being run?
A double edged sword?
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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