|
|
Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 4 Dec 06:36
What absolute nonsense from the FA suits. Who could possibly be offended by such an innocuous message, or am I missing something? And is the Ipswich captain also in hot water for failing to wear the rainbow armband?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cdr0j3xyyvpo
I thought we lived in a free country, where differing views and opinions were supposedly respected and tolerated. Oh, the irony.......
Not your average Sunday League player.
Post Edited (Wed 04 Dec 06:39)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Wed 4 Dec 06:56
I think there`s a good chance folk didn`t manage to stay awake to notice! An awful game.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Wed 4 Dec 07:07
Unless the powers at be make it a contractual obligation then they can`t really complain if players opt out.
c'mon the pars
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Wed 4 Dec 07:49
Where should the line be drawn? Assuming it should be drawn somewhere.
In an extreme example, would folk be fine with a player using his free speech to draw swastikas on a Stand Up To Racism armband?
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Wed 4 Dec 07:58
Quote:
Wotsit, Wed 4 Dec 07:49
Where should the line be drawn? Assuming it should be drawn somewhere.
In an extreme example, would folk be fine with a player using his free speech to draw swastikas on a Stand Up To Racism armband?
I think the drawing on it is silly you either abide and wear it or you don`t drawing on it won`t get you anything other than bother.
c'mon the pars
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 4 Dec 08:15
Surely it`s up to the club to decide if they`re participating and then the player if they wish to join in?
Has any research been done into the effect of armbands on people`s attitudes?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Wed 4 Dec 08:57
If Guehi wanted to wrote religious motes on it, knowing fine well its against a specific rule, then he should receive a punishment, as he is knowingly breaking a rule:m. What he should have done is the same as Morsy, by saying he didn’t wish to wear it for religious reasons.
Also, nobody should be forced into these campaigns, or chastised for not taking part. For all the good that taking the knee, wearing the armband and having a poppy on a shirt may do for the causes, they also damage them by being forced and causing polarising opinions. James McLean being the prime example of that btw.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Wed 4 Dec 09:06
The idea that the left is in any way "tolerent" and "inclusive" only really works if you bark on command.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Wed 4 Dec 09:13
Quote:
Dandy Warhol, Wed 4 Dec 09:06
The idea that the left is in any way "tolerent" and "inclusive" only really works if you bark on command.
The same could also be said about the irony of others though - not backing some campaigns they believe are “woke” but demand everyone wears poppies and chastises them if they don’t do so…..
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: king lad
Date: Wed 4 Dec 09:25
Funny, I have to put up with all types of religions telling me which god I should believe in and what`s a sin etc. Yet many of the same types of people show no empathy with how people simply choose to live their lives if they differ from the `norm`.
It`s a colourful armband showing support for people in our society who still receive horrific abuse on a daily basis because of who they are or who they love. If that offends you, they aren`t the problem...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Wed 4 Dec 09:39
Okay just to play devil`s advocate here and generate a bit of a debate. Up here we have the `show racism the red card` event and all the players come onto the pitch with a big red card and stand around the centre circle while the announcer reads a pre written blurb.
How would we feel if a player doesn`t take part in that that, doesn`t hold up the card and just assumes his normal position prior to kick off?
GG, we do live in free country where you can hold different views, even controversial ones to an extent, and not be persecuted by the government for holding them. Doesn`t mean private organisations or individuals have to tolerate them though and their are plenty of viewpoints and opinions I have zero respect for.
The Ipswich captain, who is being lauded back in Egypt for his stand against showing support for this campaign, has never refused to promote betting firms on any top he has worn even though I`m pretty sure gambling is forbidden in the Quran.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 4 Dec 10:04
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Wed 4 Dec 09:39
GG, we do live in free country where you can hold different views, even controversial ones to an extent, and not be persecuted by the government for holding them. Doesn`t mean private organisations or individuals have to tolerate them though and their are plenty of viewpoints and opinions I have zero respect for.
The Ipswich captain, who is being lauded back in Egypt for his stand against showing support for this campaign, has never refused to promote betting firms on any top he has worn even though I`m pretty sure gambling is forbidden in the Quran.
Just to be clear, TOWK, my OP was really about Guehi`s "Jesus ❤️ you" message. I can`t see how that can be deemed offensive to anyone of any religion or none. I certainly wasn`t condoning Morsy`s stance, merely asking whether he would be in trouble as a result.
Not your average Sunday League player.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Wed 4 Dec 10:35
Quote:
Dave_1885, Wed 4 Dec 09:13
Quote:
Dandy Warhol, Wed 4 Dec 09:06
The idea that the left is in any way "tolerent" and "inclusive" only really works if you bark on command.
The same could also be said about the irony of others though - not backing some campaigns they believe are “woke” but demand everyone wears poppies and chastises them if they don’t do so…..
I should have added, I care little for the right either.
Supporting people has become somewhat dictatorial.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Wed 4 Dec 10:44
GG, other than Geuhi breaking the rule about not displaying religious or political messages I`m not sure what he`s done wrong. If anything the message he`s displayed seems to be in support of the lgbt community or maybe there is an angle I`m just not seeing.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 4 Dec 10:48
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Wed 4 Dec 09:39
Okay just to play devil`s advocate here and generate a bit of a debate. Up here we have the `show racism the red card` event and all the players come onto the pitch with a big red card and stand around the centre circle while the announcer reads a pre written blurb.
How would we feel if a player doesn`t take part in that that, doesn`t hold up the card and just assumes his normal position prior to kick off?
GG, we do live in free country where you can hold different views, even controversial ones to an extent, and not be persecuted by the government for holding them. Doesn`t mean private organisations or individuals have to tolerate them though and their are plenty of viewpoints and opinions I have zero respect for.
The Ipswich captain, who is being lauded back in Egypt for his stand against showing support for this campaign, has never refused to promote betting firms on any top he has worn even though I`m pretty sure gambling is forbidden in the Quran.
It`s an interesting one, but I`d say it depends on a few things. One is the specific cause. "Show racism the red card" is one of many campaigns. It wouldn`t make you racist to not support that particular one in the same way donating to Macmillan but not Cancer Research doesn`t mean you support cancer.
I think people need to accept things aren`t black and white and essentially pressuring or forcing people to do things they may not believe in makes serious issues like homophobia and racism worse, not better.
I long for the day we don`t need to be "LGBT friendly" or "inclusive" and it`s just a case of you treat everyone with the respect they deserve regardless of their skin colour or who they share a bed with.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Athletico
Date: Wed 4 Dec 11:33
If Guehi writes `Jesus loves you` on every armband he wears, then there is no issue. But he has clearly done this to provoke.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 4 Dec 11:41
Quote:
Athletico, Wed 4 Dec 11:33
If Guehi writes `Jesus loves you` on every armband he wears, then there is no issue. But he has clearly done this to provoke.
I`m intrigued, Athletico. Who do you think he`s trying to provoke? Genuine question.
Not your average Sunday League player.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Athletico
Date: Wed 4 Dec 12:03
Because it`s quite clear he has done it to prove a point, where as he could simply have refused to wear it. Christian teachings for the most part in African countries - homosexuality is a sin and in some countries, a crime. Guehi is from the Ivory Coast, a country where LGBTQ+ are persecuted and imprisoned.
Post Edited (Wed 04 Dec 12:04)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Wed 4 Dec 13:13
Quote:
GG Riva, Wed 4 Dec 11:41
Quote:
Athletico, Wed 4 Dec 11:33
If Guehi writes `Jesus loves you` on every armband he wears, then there is no issue. But he has clearly done this to provoke.
I`m intrigued, Athletico. Who do you think he`s trying to provoke? Genuine question.
That`s what I`m wondering. I didn`t see it as a poke or protest. I thought maybe he is a liberal Christian pointing out, quite rightly, that Jesus loves everyone.
Post Edited (Wed 04 Dec 13:14)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: theparsman1885
Date: Wed 4 Dec 13:56
PARrot wrote:
> Quote:
GG Riva, Wed 4 Dec 11:41
>
> Quote:
Athletico, Wed 4 Dec 11:33
>
> If Guehi writes `Jesus loves you` on every armband he wears,
> then there is no issue. But he has clearly done this to
> provoke.
>
> I`m intrigued, Athletico. Who do you think he`s trying to
> provoke? Genuine question.
>
> That`s what I`m wondering. I didn`t see it as a poke or
> protest. I thought maybe he is a liberal Christian pointing
> out, quite rightly, that Jesus loves everyone.
>
>
>
> Post Edited (Wed 04 Dec 13:14)
Except that’s not the case for many religions sadly, where LGBTQ people are outcast and are seen as sinners.
For further evidence of how this is manifested, just do yourself a favour next time there is a football club with a pride support message on social media, and have a cursory look into the comments section. There you will find lots of profiles with heavy religious support plastered through their profiles and pictures - all commenting very openly with hate against that community.
IMO, he’s written that message clearly in detriment to the campaign. Others here have pointed out a similar argument with the racism campaign. Imagine a player had done similar with that campaign? He wouldn’t be getting the level of “support” that this one has.
I think if you put yourself in the mind-frame of an LGbTQ person, or even a close relative of one when in these conversations it makes the issue clearer.
Now whether or not these campaigns do any good is another question, but then where does it start and stop. Personally I’d prefer if it was all just dropped, but then the questions like “including remembrance events?” come up and that’s a whole different game.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Wed 4 Dec 15:21
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Wed 4 Dec 10:44
GG, other than Geuhi breaking the rule about not displaying religious or political messages I`m not sure what he`s done wrong. If anything the message he`s displayed seems to be in support of the lgbt community or maybe there is an angle I`m just not seeing.
You contradict yourself here TOWK - you say that he has broken the rules then say you cant see what he has done wrong, all in once sentence……he was told by the FA at the weekend what he had done wrong, then proceeded to do the same thing midweek, clearly aiming to provoke a reaction.
Post Edited (Wed 04 Dec 15:38)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Wed 4 Dec 15:32
Keep religion, politics, causes out of football.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Wed 4 Dec 15:40
Quote:
Dandy Warhol, Wed 4 Dec 10:35
Quote:
Dave_1885, Wed 4 Dec 09:13
Quote:
Dandy Warhol, Wed 4 Dec 09:06
The idea that the left is in any way "tolerent" and "inclusive" only really works if you bark on command.
The same could also be said about the irony of others though - not backing some campaigns they believe are “woke” but demand everyone wears poppies and chastises them if they don’t do so…..
I should have added, I care little for the right either.
Supporting people has become somewhat dictatorial.
It’s no longer support if you have to do it
COYP
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Wed 4 Dec 16:03
I`ve been making a similar argument about poppies for 20 years, basically since Blair politicised It to shore up support for the unpopular war in Iraq.
I agree that we shouldn`t force people to take a stand in any cause or campaign, so I`m glad that folk who are a bit more right-leaning are beginning to come around to my way of thinking.
However , I do not agree that folk should be lauded if they agree to support a cause then try to hijack it to promote their own preferred messages. I wouldn`t, for example, want someone to draw a CND logo on their poppy, even if I would agree with that sentiment. Either take part or don`t.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
Post Edited (Wed 04 Dec 16:05)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Wed 4 Dec 16:38
Quote:
NMCmassive, Wed 4 Dec 15:40
Quote:
Dandy Warhol, Wed 4 Dec 10:35
Quote:
Dave_1885, Wed 4 Dec 09:13
Quote:
Dandy Warhol, Wed 4 Dec 09:06
The idea that the left is in any way "tolerent" and "inclusive" only really works if you bark on command.
The same could also be said about the irony of others though - not backing some campaigns they believe are “woke” but demand everyone wears poppies and chastises them if they don’t do so…..
I should have added, I care little for the right either.
Supporting people has become somewhat dictatorial.
It’s no longer support if you have to do it
That`s my point.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Wed 4 Dec 16:39
No contradiction at all Dave, that why I started the sentence with "other than".
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 4 Dec 16:42
Quote:
Athletico, Wed 4 Dec 12:03
Because it`s quite clear he has done it to prove a point, where as he could simply have refused to wear it. Christian teachings for the most part in African countries - homosexuality is a sin and in some countries, a crime. Guehi is from the Ivory Coast, a country where LGBTQ+ are persecuted and imprisoned.
Two points;
1. You haven`t said who you think he`s trying to provoke, and
2. You have inferred that because he was born in Ivory Coast, he will automatically embrace that country`s culture and religious teachings.
He came to live in England when he was just a year old. My family emigrated to Scotland from Italy when I was 7. My thinking is far more aligned to Scottish values and culture than those of my native country. Like Guèhi, I grew up here, so this land has shaped my philosophy and beliefs.
Not your average Sunday League player.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 4 Dec 16:45
Quote:
Dave_1885, Wed 4
You contradict yourself here TOWK - you say that he has broken the rules then say you cant see what he has done wrong, all in once sentence……he was told by the FA at the weekend what he had done wrong, then proceeded to do the same thing midweek, clearly aiming to provoke a reaction.
Do you think Guèhi was sticking up two fingers to the FA, Dave?
Not your average Sunday League player.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Wed 4 Dec 16:45
I don`t agree that he was fine to take someone else`s message and use it to promote his own.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Wed 4 Dec 17:47
Forcing people to wear armbands has a problematic history.
My wife walked out on a job when she was required to wear a rainbow lanyard as part of this ideological authoritarianism, she is now in a better job.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis
Date: Wed 4 Dec 17:50
A truly harrowing tale. We can only be glad that you spared us any more detail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Wed 4 Dec 18:40
Quote:
Bletchley_Par, Wed 4 Dec 17:47
Forcing people to wear armbands has a problematic history.
My wife walked out on a job when she was required to wear a rainbow lanyard as part of this ideological authoritarianism, she is now in a better job.
She must really hate LGBT+ people to walk out a job over something so trivial
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 4 Dec 18:50
Quote:
red-star-par, Wed 4 Dec 18:40
Quote:
Bletchley_Par, Wed 4 Dec 17:47
Forcing people to wear armbands has a problematic history.
My wife walked out on a job when she was required to wear a rainbow lanyard as part of this ideological authoritarianism, she is now in a better job.
She must really hate LGBT+ people to walk out a job over something so trivial
TBH I don`t know how long I could deal with customers in ASDA either.
|
|
|
|
|
|
