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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 7 Feb 06:53
A good mate of mine jokingly said at the game v Livi that we`re beginning to look more like Fulham or Crystal Palace with the number of black players we now have. I`m delighted because it signals a welcome advance in our society. I`m old enough to remember when black footballers were extremely rare on both sides of the border, not because they weren`t good enough or "lacked bottle" as received wisdom would have us believe, but because they were subjected to horrific racial abuse, in some cases even by their own fans....
https://books.google.com/books/about/Pitch_Black.html?id=AvRhCAAAQBAJ#v=onepage&q&f=false
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: neilholland999
Date: Fri 7 Feb 07:59
I reckon most of us don`t care where a player comes from or what they look like, as long as they improve the squad and help us climb the table.
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Fri 7 Feb 08:15
Black footballers were rare in Scotland simply due to lack of population, typically England had many more immigrants during the so-called windrush generation, few adults came to Scotland, therefore not many black kids around to grow up playing football.
I don’t remember any black kids whilst growing up in Touch in the 70’s - just a couple of Asian boys - but any comparable council estate down south would have had a good mix from many areas.
First black player I remember seeing at E.E.P. was Vic Kasule with Albion Rovers, cracking player he was.
I have on good authority (from the man himself) that Liesh tried to sign him for us.
The abuse he took was uncalled for, but nothing like the racist abuse given to black/coloured players in England.
Wasn’t really until Mark Walters arrived at old-rangers that the really bad abuse was highlighted here, previously was hidden/ignored because the players were not so high profile.
Personally, I couldn’t care less what colour a player is, if Tidser signs a striker that is black, purple and yellow stripes, with green spots, that scored 30 a season, he would be a hero.
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Fri 7 Feb 08:23
I mentioned it to my son in the second half against Raith that I thought it was the most black players we had on the park at one time with 5.
Then we started with 7 against Livi.
Really proud of how far the club has come.
I remember the vile abuse Victor Kasule used to get when playing for Albion Rovers against us.
And possibly the lowest point ever was the treatment of Richard Cadette.
I spoke to a fellow Pars fan that night in the town about the game and raised the disgusting treatment Cadette got from our fans. He doubled down saying he deserved it because he was a b***k b******. Still see this guy at games and wonder how his views might have changed or not over the years.
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Fri 7 Feb 08:36
I used to stand in The Cage during the 90s, and remember the abuse Cadette got, which was pretty out of order. I don`t really remember many other black players getting it, I assumed he was singled out because he was a very, very good player.
During one match a guy I knew got arrested for it, they really made an example of him, going through the courts with a lot of media coverage in the papers and STV Evening News. It was probably a bit over the top as thousands were doing worse every weekend.
They was also pretty bad abuse against Justin Fashanu, who was also gay, so that doubled the abuse against him, that`s probably the worst I`ve seen against a player at EEP.
Things have thankfully moved on a lot since then, I can`t really remember the last time I heard anything racist at a match here.
I did notice the 7 players on Wednesday night, I guess it might end up that we will have a team with no white players, which would be interesting given the racial make up of the city. I`m pretty sure I read that a massively high percentage of young professional players were now coming out of areas of inner city London, so that might be the players we identify to sign from academies in England.
Anyway, they will have my backing whatever they look like
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Fri 7 Feb 08:37
Quote:
sadindiefreak, Fri 7 Feb 08:23
He doubled down saying he deserved it because he was a b***k b******.
Are you sure it wasn’t more like ‘
dirty six-fingered mutant b**** inbred falk*** b******’? 🤔
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Fri 7 Feb 08:40
Quote:
Luxembourg Par, Fri 7 Feb 08:37
Quote:
sadindiefreak, Fri 7 Feb 08:23
He doubled down saying he deserved it because he was a b***k b******.
Are you sure it wasn’t more like ‘
dirty six-fingered mutant b**** inbred falk*** b******’? 🤔
Nope, just the racism.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Fri 7 Feb 09:20
Me and my mate had this discussion as the teams came out on Wednesday. Got me thinking to the last 20 years and what black/racial minority players we have had in that time and could only think of roughly 8, maybe 9. We also noted the number in Palaces squad and how the dynamics changed a bit down south.
Fair play too - skin colour should never come into the equation, players should only ever be judged on their ability and helpfulness to the team the y play for.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 7 Feb 09:53
Remember a long time ago Paul Wilson of Celtic used to get dog`s abuse, he was slightly "tinted"!🤔
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Topic Originator: dafc123
Date: Fri 7 Feb 09:57
How on earth is this post still up?
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Fri 7 Feb 09:58
Remember seeing the first Asian at school in the early 70s and we thought he would be a great player because he was from a different country. Nope! He was just as Sh**e as the rest of us.
For some reason it really fascinates children when people are different. I had it in deepest China on a flight where the woman’s daughter sat next to me stared at me the whole 2 hour flight 🤣. I think it is about normalisation. If you see something for the first time then human nature is very inquisitive and we try to understand the difference.
In the case of Dunfermline and this thread, I genuinely hadn’t noticed the colour of people’s skin in our team. I think that is due to the fact that Scottish society is much more diverse than the 60s and 70s and I am happier for it. In a corporate event for a large company in Dunfermline around the time of the great influx of Laudrups, etc. I once heard the following.
Customer- do you have any foreign players in your team
Management- yes, we have Dave Barnett, he is English 🤣
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Topic Originator: Parster
Date: Fri 7 Feb 10:21
A wee bit unfair on the majority of pars fans as well actually had a coloured player long before these two appeared in Scottish football a guy called Dave smith there will always be idiots
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Fri 7 Feb 10:28
Sheesh. Some no doubt good intentioned posts here but from people needing to go on a course or two...
Incidentally, while we`re on the subject, let`s not pretend that the casual racism of the past is gone. At the last Rovers away game I heard several comments from the row in front of me about the (black) stewards, talking about how their dingy must have taken a wrong turn to land in Kirkcaldy, how they would be sleeping on a barge, etc Just said out loud, in public with no thought or consequence because they thought there was nothing wrong.
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Fri 7 Feb 10:44
Quote:
kelty_par, Fri 7 Feb 10:28
Sheesh. Some no doubt good intentioned posts here but from people needing to go on a course or two...
Incidentally, while we`re on the subject, let`s not pretend that the casual racism of the past is gone. At the last Rovers away game I heard several comments from the row in front of me about the (black) stewards, talking about how their dingy must have taken a wrong turn to land in Kirkcaldy, how they would be sleeping on a barge, etc Just said out loud, in public with no thought or consequence because they thought there was nothing wrong.
And did you challenge them about it? Just interested as if they are not aware then a reminder is all it needs.
They may have told you to F*** off then you would have your answer about the people. Makes me even happier where I sit at the game.
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Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis
Date: Fri 7 Feb 10:47
O`Boyle got the worst racist abuse I can recall - in amongst other general abuse - on his return to East End.
It was shameful looking back at it.
Thankfully, on the whole, things have improved, and the younger generation are better in this respect than my generation back in the 90s.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Equal rights and justice in this time
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Topic Originator: dafc123
Date: Fri 7 Feb 11:04
The casual racism in this thread is worrying. People have been banned from posting for a whole lot less.
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Fri 7 Feb 11:21
Quote:
dafc123, Fri 7 Feb 11:04
The casual racism in this thread is worrying. People have been banned from posting for a whole lot less.
All I see is people speaking out against racism.
Can you give an example of what this "casual racism" is so we can avoid it in future.
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Topic Originator: Aaron Labonte
Date: Fri 7 Feb 11:49
I seem to remember BBC Alba had to turn off their microphones during a game v ICT (Martin Hardie freekick mkii) due to racism aimed towards Gregory Tade.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 7 Feb 11:50
Quote:
dafc123, Fri 7 Feb 11:04
The casual racism in this thread is worrying. People have been banned from posting for a whole lot
/quote]
I started this thread as a celebration of the fact that we`ve made good progress in the battle against racism. For sure, there are still racist people out there, but they`re rarely heard now because overt racism is unacceptable. Unfortunately, we can`t stop ignorant racists thinking what they like. I posted the same topic on the EEB and a poster suggested I delete it because it`s a "delicate issue" and it was attracting the wrong sort of responses. I disagreed. Delicate issues should be discussed, not hidden away and folk who post anything racist should have their post deleted and red carded to reinforce the fact that racism in any form is unacceptable.
When I started watching football, the only black player who was universally admired and appeared to escape racism was Pelè.
Btw, the thread heading is a reference to the excellent book I`ve linked on the history of black players in the UK.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: par-91
Date: Fri 7 Feb 12:06
Quote:
Parster, Fri 7 Feb 10:21
A wee bit unfair on the majority of pars fans as well actually had a coloured player long before these two appeared in Scottish football a guy called Dave smith there will always be idiots
I know your post is most likely well-intentioned. But calling a black person ‘coloured’ hasn’t been acceptable for decades.
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Topic Originator: Fethiyespar
Date: Fri 7 Feb 12:32
Feel uncomfortable with this post. At the end of the day, as we Scots say we are all Jock Thamsons Bairns.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 7 Feb 13:10
Quote:
par-91, Fri 7 Feb 12:06
Quote:
Parster, Fri 7 Feb 10:21
A wee bit unfair on the majority of pars fans as well actually had a coloured player long before these two appeared in Scottish football a guy called Dave smith there will always be idiots
I know your post is most likely well-intentioned. But calling a black person ‘coloured’ hasn’t been acceptable for decades.
Ironically, in Italy it`s not considered PC to refer to a person with a dark skin tone as "black." Instead the term used is "man/woman of colour." (Direct translation.)
I wish we were a bit closer to eradicating sectarianism in Scotland. The fans of a certain Scottish club have no issue in accepting black players in their team but there would be an uproar if they were to sign an Irish Catholic.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: dafc123
Date: Fri 7 Feb 13:21
Thread still up. Clear to see our support base is harbouring racist sympathizers.
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Fri 7 Feb 13:37
It’s time we heard the chant “ We’re Black we’re White we’re Effin dynamite again…..It’s been a while..
What an opportunity we missed in 2014.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 7 Feb 13:40
Quote:
dafc123, Fri 7 Feb 13:21
Thread still up. Clear to see our support base is harbouring racist sympathizers.
Not sure what you objecting to, dafc. I`ve already explained why I started this thread. If you find it offensive or inappropriate, ask Admin to delete it. If it`s individual posts, you can ask for them to be deleted, either by Admin or the posters themselves.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: dafc123
Date: Fri 7 Feb 13:47
Thank GG Riva. I don`t find your initial post racist. it`s just clear to see the Right Wing of our support rear its ugly head. I`m actually shaking. Had 2 tix for Aberdeen but seriously considering this now.
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Fri 7 Feb 13:51
I remember some pretty be racist abuse towards Dave Barnett back in the late 90s.
Then it turned out that his own teammates had been racist abusing him too.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Fri 7 Feb 14:04
I think a lot of people are uncomfortable becaue it`s a bit unusual these days for a person, or people, to be singled out because of their skin colour in such a casual fashion.
Just like some of the well-intentioned attitudes and language of the even more distant past will have grated with us older folk. My Nanna didn`t have a hateful bone in her body, but her generation`s language and ways of thinking about people was difficult for my generation to hear.
It is all very clearly well-intentioned, but times have moved on so folk who are older, like myself, can no longer rely on the standards of the past when we are communicating with a wider audience, and it is basically on us to keep ourselves up to date if we choose to engage in conversation with strangers on the topic.
Having said all that, overt racism is making a huge comeback, so maybe it will make its way back into polite conversation before long.
Post Edited (Fri 07 Feb 14:05)
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Fri 7 Feb 14:38
Quote:
dafc123, Fri 7 Feb 13:21
Thread still up. Clear to see our support base is harbouring racist sympathizers.
Still waiting for you to answer Indie’s question - please provide examples of the ‘casual racism’ so that those of us, including me, if I’m accused, can be educated to your particular standards.
Quote:
dafc123, Fri 7 Feb 13:47
it`s just clear to see the Right Wing of our support rear its ugly head. I`m actually shaking. Had 2 tix for Aberdeen but seriously considering this now.
Oooh - precious much?
You perceive/interpret words on a forum to be potentially hurty to someone else and you are ‘actually shaking’?
‘Actually’? 🤣🤣🤣
So much so, that you’re considering not going to a football match?
What? Are words typed on a forum infectious?
Maybe you would be sitting within 50 metres of an old fart that doesn’t realise that certain words, whilst not abusive, are not the ‘accepted norm’ nowadays?
Before you know it, you’ll be referring to people in the vernacular of Alf Garnett?
Ohhhhh the horror.
I’m actually shaking for you
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 7 Feb 14:41
I also remember Pars fans when arriving in Birmingham for the second leg against WBA , the challenge was spot the white man!🤔😲
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Topic Originator: Parsweep
Date: Fri 7 Feb 14:42
Couldn`t care less what colour a player is , if they`re good enough and want to play for us , they`ll get my backing .
Not sure about the wisdom of starting this thread tho GG .
We all see what even the most inoffensive threads descend into on here .
Bobvo
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 7 Feb 14:44
🙄
Thread highlighting how refreshing it is to see a much more diverse squad and people start nit-picking over people using incorrect terminology. Call it out so people are aware, but don`t call it racist.
Interestingly, I was thinking on Wednesday that we`ve got a fair few English players now and a Welshman. Good to see us casting the net wider than Scotland. Also made me remember the OAE sketch from when I was wee where they remarked the great diversity in the Pars squad as we had French, Welsh and Ireland.
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