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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 23 Apr 06:46
I`ve started quite a few threads naming individual players on this forum down the years. If memory serves, they`ve all been appreciative of a particularly good performance by these players. I just don`t see the point in starting a thread to highlight a player`s deficiencies. It just invites a "pile on" from like-minded posters and then leads to arguments with others who object to their negativity. The current thread about Lewis McCann is a case in point. It has topped 200 replies and shows no sign of stopping......
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Ahoy!Ahoy!
Date: Wed 23 Apr 07:46
I agree to an extent but it is a forum. Not everyone is going to agree with everyone’s view on players.
I personally get the impression that some posters and blinkered by the fact players have been here a while and have been okay in the past (league one). It’s no secret that the last few years have been terrible, our relegation to League One, yes we got promoted, and then fought relegation the last 2 years.
In that we’ve been through 2 managers in McPake and Tidser but results have been the same. While we can say the tactics didn’t suit us etc….the common denominator the whole time has been the players. How many in that squad were here when we got relegated for example? Okay Lennon has come in and improved a poor team but we’re still miles off looking like a team who can challenge at the top end.
If we want to move on and actually start challenging at the right end of the table then like it or not, we need a better quality of player all over the pitch and throughout the squad in general.
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Wed 23 Apr 07:50
Yes, BUT there are a some suspects who revel in abusing players.
It is uncalled for and totally unnecessary. The players can`t defend themselves.
It`s embarrassing for me to see it and I feel in cases, said posts should be removed.
____________________
contact: email me
File Share: https://share2.co.uk
ParsTV: https://ParsTV.co.uk
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Wed 23 Apr 07:55
They are usually quite good, but the ones on Lewis McCann that have kept creeping up almost incessantly over the last year or so are pretty much just online bullying by the usual suspects.
That`s one of the worst things about being a Pars fan, the way the boo-boys all tend to have a target and just won`t give him a break. It`s no surprise when their confidence is shot. It`s a phenomenon I have seen down the years from Fanzines, to at the game, to internet forums. Usually it`s been players who do have something about them, but for some reason (they don`t run about like a headless chicken, they don`t slide about on their backside) their card is marked from the word go. I`ve seen it with players from Trevor Smith, to Justin Skinner, from Ross Millen to Joe Chalmers and Lewis McCann.
If you go up the back of the Norrie you can see them in the flesh, a gormless, vacant selection of losers, ready to boo Chalmers on to the pitch, shout nonsense at his every touch, I`ve even heard him get blamed for things when it wasn`t even him. They just have to have a scapegoat and they move around from one to the next It`s unfortunate that the hollowest vessels make the most noise.
My take on it is that they are most likely losers in life. They have nothing going on in their lives except the football. They see some local guy living their dream and they hate him for it. They will be sitting there. alone, in their bedroom in their mother`s house, no chance of a girlfriend, crap job, tiny tadger. The jealousy, the rage, all just a projection of their own inadequacy
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Topic Originator: Ahoy!Ahoy!
Date: Wed 23 Apr 08:02
So we’re four posts in and it’s turned into bullying our own fans.
This is the reason posts and threads turn into disasters and bickering back and forth in my opinion.
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Wed 23 Apr 08:06
In fairness the McCann post that was created by me was about his injury.
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Wed 23 Apr 08:43
I just see wholly inadequate so called men revelling in bashing a professional sportsman.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 23 Apr 08:51
Quote:
cammypar 1995, Wed 23 Apr 08:06
In fairness the McCann post that was created by me was about his injury.
So you did, Cammy. I hadn`t realised that.No blame can be attached to you for the way the thread deteriorated. Normally, these threads are started with an opinion on the named player`s (lack of) ability, which naturally leads to some posters siding with the OP and others disagreeing and then we get the same tedious arguments.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: CitizenPar
Date: Wed 23 Apr 09:12
It`s not just Lewis who gets it, either. Deniz, MOH, Joe Chalmers, Craig Wighton and others have all had more than their fair share of abuse. Unfairly, in my opinion.
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Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Wed 23 Apr 09:13
Quote:
Ahoy!Ahoy!, Wed 23 Apr 07:46
I agree to an extent but it is a forum. Not everyone is going to agree with everyone’s view on players.
I personally get the impression that some posters and blinkered by the fact players have been here a while and have been okay in the past (league one). It’s no secret that the last few years have been terrible, our relegation to League One, yes we got promoted, and then fought relegation the last 2 years.
In that we’ve been through 2 managers in McPake and Tidser but results have been the same. While we can say the tactics didn’t suit us etc….the common denominator the whole time has been the players. How many in that squad were here when we got relegated for example? Okay Lennon has come in and improved a poor team but we’re still miles off looking like a team who can challenge at the top end.
If we want to move on and actually start challenging at the right end of the table then like it or not, we need a better quality of player all over the pitch and throughout the squad in general.
Agree with all the above
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Topic Originator: RossF
Date: Wed 23 Apr 09:36
Sad to say but some players just aren’t good enough and that applies to every club. Players are more likely to be criticised than praised (that’s the typical attitude of people all over the world!)
The McCann thread is split with people who want him to stay and people who’d happily see the back of him. That’s usually the purpose of a forum - for debate. If people have reasons for/against a player then that’s fair enough. For someone to just say he’s rubbish and not back it up with reasons is a bit pointless. The same goes with people who only berate posters for their opinions rather than argue the point against.
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Topic Originator: Higgys Mohawk
Date: Wed 23 Apr 10:20
At one point I thought they should rename the website LewisMcCann.net! Every thread ends up about him
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Wed 23 Apr 11:55
Quote:
RossF, Wed 23 Apr 09:36
Sad to say but some players just aren’t good enough and that applies to every club. Players are more likely to be criticised than praised (that’s the typical attitude of people all over the world!)
The McCann thread is split with people who want him to stay and people who’d happily see the back of him. That’s usually the purpose of a forum - for debate. If people have reasons for/against a player then that’s fair enough. For someone to just say he’s rubbish and not back it up with reasons is a bit pointless. The same goes with people who only berate posters for their opinions rather than argue the point against.
I suppose I fall into another category? I’ll criticise a player for their performance in a particular game, but what I won’t do is continually lambast a player whilst he is giving of his best. I believe that serves no purpose.
The opposite is also true. I’ll give praise when it’s merited.
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
Post Edited (Wed 23 Apr 11:57)
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Topic Originator: oapar
Date: Wed 23 Apr 12:15
How many of our fans have thought about the words they use on this forum to appraise a player`s game or ability? Continually slating any player is bound to have an effect on the way they approach the game. No player starts a game with the intention of playing badly, it is their livelihood after all, and like us all in the work place, some days are better than others.
The same contributors who use harsh and often unnecessary language when things have not gone well, are conspicuously absent when we have a good win.
It is almost as if they use this forum to vent their spleen about all that is bad in their own lives and don`t give a thought that they are now making others feel really uncomfortable and incompetent too.
Sometimes the old adage `If you have nothing encouraging to say, say nothing at all` would be far more appropriate.
Don`t get me wrong when results are not going our way it makes for a miserable Saturday evening, however I see no point in slating some players, who will already feel bad, just to make me feel like a superior being.
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Topic Originator: RossF
Date: Wed 23 Apr 13:38
I wasn`t trying to categorise people Raymie. Like you (I’d imagine) I love to see every player perform to a standard each week but that’s not how it works and football is a sport that causes more debate than anything. It’s great seeing players who struggle to shine each week playing a blinder, which is why I was chuffed for Mehmet and Chalmers during our league one campaign. Clay is another one who has been poor but looks a much different player under Lennon, which could give him a chance of a contract next season.
The squad is awful at the moment though and I cannot see much debate with that. I’m fully expecting most of the out of contract players to leave in the summer. I just hope we can add some serious quality and bring the feel good factor back to East End next season. The only ones I’d keep out of contract are Mullen, Comrie, Hamilton, Jake Sutherland and possibly Clay. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Mehmet and Fisher available for transfer also.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 23 Apr 14:22
The fact that you are now suggesting Clay may be worth a new contract because Lennon has found a place for him just shows how fickle fans are in assessing players and why we should leave it to the professionals. It looked liked Lennon also valued Chalmers` attributes and he might have featured in the last few games if he hadn`t suffered an injury. It will be interesting to see who gets offered contracts if Lennon stays on. He may not have seen some in a match situation if they have been injured or out on loan.
Incidentally, a thread on the East End Bounce forum previewing Saturday`s game against Airdrie has attracted a few comments suggesting Lennon hasn`t done enough to warrant an extended contract!
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Topic Originator: sonofpetrie
Date: Wed 23 Apr 14:49
This is a genuine question....is there really "abuse" on this forum. It`s not like it`s unregulated. This is not Twitter. I`ve read many a thread with people stating who they think are and aren`t good enough, but red and black cards aside I don`t think I`ve read any.
Now there are certainly some derogatory opinions but this is professional football. There will always be people watching that don`t think player x is good enough. I am afraid that`s just the world we live in.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary"
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Topic Originator: RossF
Date: Wed 23 Apr 16:09
Not at all wee eck. I’ve always hated that assumption that football fans can’t judge a footballer just because they haven’t played. Many can, it’s the small minority that jump to conclusions and write players off too quickly. The example with Clay shows that certain managers are capable of getting more out of players than others. Clay was poor under McPake, didn’t feature at all under Tidser and has been a strong performer under Lennon. Fans can be fickle about a lot of things but this example is proof that our current manager is playing certain players to their strengths. Bene for example looks much more comfortable in a back three with the other two centre backs making up for his lack of pace.
I completely disagree with the statement about Lennon not doing enough. With the current squad, it was always going to be a hard task to keep us up. I firmly believe we will improve this summer and be up the right end of the table next season with Lennon in charge.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 23 Apr 16:30
I wasn`t suggesting fans can`t assess a player because they haven`t played the game - simply that managers see players up close and in training and might see some attributes that suit the way they want to play. All fans have to go on are performances in matches. A lot of the criticism on here is unqualified though with no reservations. I find the dismissal of certain players as `League 1` standard particularly unfair.
I must admit I found the comments about NL breath-taking but they just illustrate how difficult some fans are to please. I hope he stays and look forward to seeing how he changes the style of play and deals with the next transfer window.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Wed 23 Apr 16:38
Repeatedly accusing someone of being bad at their job is abusive IMO.
At least one poster here is guilty of singling out one individual player (who is a real person not just a football player, in case we are forgetting) and berating them at every opportunity. That`s definitely abuse, especially given the borderline obsessive nature of their attention.
Like folk have said, it`s fine to point out that someone had a bad game and I completely agree. Saying that you think a person wasn`t at their usual standard professionally is completely different to piling on or constantly berating someone and pointing out their failings at every opportunity, whilst staying silent when they do something positive.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: PARadise
Date: Wed 23 Apr 17:23
In fairness the "usual suspects" are absolutely hopeless and have had a lot of time to prove otherwise.
I don`t like the bullying but there are lots of very valid criticisms. Clean slate squad next season I think it needs a total revamp for the fans but some of the players to kick start their careers again
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Topic Originator: RossF
Date: Wed 23 Apr 18:05
You’re correct wee eck, managers will see a lot of ability in training but unfortunately some players cannot replicate their form in training to the pitch. Take Archie Stevens for example. He showed in the early stages that he definitely has ability but just lacked a final ball. Recently he has been extremely poor and I noticed he wasn’t even in the squad on Saturday. There is evidence based on his game time that he could turn into a decent player but perhaps doesn’t fit into Lennon’s system.
Completely agree with you there. It extremely unfair to judge Lennon with the current squad. We have nothing upfront, especially with Kane and McCann’s injury troubles. In my eyes he is the best manager we’ve had at the club since Calderwood and I hope he can bring back exciting times.
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Wed 23 Apr 18:11
The issue i see is some threads are not about a player, could be about anything, yet some players are somehow brought into these conversations and then singled out, which i find weird tbh
COYP
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Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore
Date: Wed 23 Apr 18:34
“Repeatedly accusing someone of being bad at their job is abusive IMO.”
That is especially the case when the accusers could not do the job themselves and have no particular critical ability.
Unfortunately, social media simply encourages the anonymous clowns to post what they want and to become ever more vitriolic with each post.
The bravery of being out of range.
My dog eats meat
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Topic Originator: CrossPar
Date: Wed 23 Apr 19:11
You don`t need to be a watchmaker to tell the time.
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Wed 23 Apr 19:35
Quote:
CrossPar, Wed 23 Apr 19:11
You don`t need to be a watchmaker to tell the time.
You do, however, need to know more than how to tell the time to be able to tell a watchmaker how to do his job
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Topic Originator: CrossPar
Date: Wed 23 Apr 19:49
Quote:
red-star-par, Wed 23 Apr 19:35
Quote:
CrossPar, Wed 23 Apr 19:11
You don`t need to be a watchmaker to tell the time.
You do, however, need to know more than how to tell the time to be able to tell a watchmaker how to do his job
That will be the string of watchmakers that have been sacked over the last few years for not doing their job very well.
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Topic Originator: Alter Ego
Date: Wed 23 Apr 19:55
It’s a football forum😅 Jesus Christ now you can’t say players in games were brutal and didn’t play well?
This is what is wrong with society now…if you don’t do well at something and are wrong your still praised as you tried and well done…
Wanyama is overweight and looks like a tellytubby
McCann has 1 good game in 6/7 matches and can’t read getting back to defend.
Big Bene a great captain but his legs have gone since his injury
Joe Chalmers is not a left back and can ping a pass but can’t tackle in midfield
The team we have right now is brutal and needs totally revamped for us to be even competitive next season or spend £££ to win the league…
Fek me there is a lot of players in that team who simply have not tried hard enough in games and should be disappointed in themselves as we might not have been where we are now!
Mon the Pars!
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Wed 23 Apr 20:45
Nobody`s saying you can`t do it Alter Ego. You fire in.
But folk will judge you for it and might even tell you why, as is their right.
Personally, I think it`s strangely disproportionate behaviour for a grown adult to spout abuse at folk because they think they are bad at their job in entertainment.
Maybe giving your opinion in public about a stranger`s work performance would be understandible if they were a doctor or a politician who had wrecked your life, but I don`t think Joe Chalmers has crashed the economy or botched any brain surgery.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Wed 23 Apr 21:20
It`s probably the worst time of year for professional footballers. We are fighting to stay up, players are at tge end of their contracts with no clarity where they will be next season. Part of the game I suppose but difficult if you have family and financial commitments.
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: JTH123
Date: Wed 23 Apr 22:00
Thats a very good point.
Try to play to your potential to impress a new manager in the hope of getting a new contract but you could get injured and have no way of earning in a few weeks time.
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Topic Originator: summeragent
Date: Thu 24 Apr 08:11
We have had a string of bad and indifferent managers. It’s really difficult to see who is genuinely a good player when they are played out of position or the manager uses tactics that just don’t work.
Otoo took some slack yet he is a genuinely gifted player imo. Lewis McCann still has something about him and I would be interested to see how he develops with NL.
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Topic Originator: thebear
Date: Fri 25 Apr 00:18
Problem was when we won l1, we were still not good, fortunately the rest were worse. We won matches but on the whole only just.
It`s the same group of players that we have now.
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Fri 25 Apr 06:32
Quote:
thebear, Fri 25 Apr 00:18
Problem was when we won l1, we were still not good, fortunately the rest were worse. We won matches but on the whole only just.
It`s the same group of players that we have now.
And we won it with what was according to the manager championship standard players. Some of which are still struggling in the championship.
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: Ahoy!Ahoy!
Date: Fri 25 Apr 09:04
We all know the mistake we made was giving 2 year deals to players we got us relegated the season before all because they looked good in League One.
McPake should’ve been backed by the Germans and they players should’ve been thanked for getting us back up and let go.
The same mistakes won’t be made this summer.
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Fri 25 Apr 09:18
Quote:
Ahoy!Ahoy!, Fri 25 Apr 09:04
We all know the mistake we made was giving 2 year deals to players we got us relegated the season before all because they looked good in League One.
McPake should’ve been backed by the Germans and they players should’ve been thanked for getting us back up and let go.
The same mistakes won’t be made this summer.
I always wondered if the Germans had the finances they boasted and maybe that`s what led them to sell. If you think about it they used government grants for a few portacabins around an astro and little to no investment in the first team squad. Although it`s a breath of fresh air having bord investing using his own cash.
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 25 Apr 10:01
Quote:
cammypar 1995, Fri 25 Apr 09:18
I always wondered if the Germans had the finances they boasted and maybe that`s what led them to sell. If you think about it they used government grants for a few portacabins around an astro and little to no investment in the first team squad. Although it`s a breath of fresh air having bord investing using his own cash.
The consortium consisted of 11 millionaires and a billionaire, Cammy, so they weren`t short of a € or two, but they obviously weren`t that keen to chuck too much of it at the Pars. 🙁
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 25 Apr 10:27
Another strange theory about the previous regime was that they delegated the big decisions to the CEO and the financial losses were down to him. I hardly think they achieved their millionaire status by handing their cheque books over to paid employees. The problem was they were unable or unwilling to communicate their vision to the fans.
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Fri 25 Apr 10:33
I would think that in making assessments of players, NL will be open minded. There are obviously lessons to be learned from this season, but I wouldn`t attribute the poor season to individual players. It`s far more complex than that. If you assess players on this season, it fails to recognise the potential in players and how you believe they can develop. You have to separate the two. It`s a team game at the end of the day so you need a group of players who become more than the sum of their parts. In football I think it`s important to look more on the positive side. Negativity can become a self-fulfilling prophecy in sport, I.e. you can defeat yourself before you step on the park. Positive mental attitude is very important.
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: Never10yairds
Date: Fri 25 Apr 12:24
I always thought the Germans plans were fundamentally flawed from the start. Too much blue sky thinking that ignored some of the harsh realities of Scottish football.
The only way to achieve their ambition of making us self sustaining through nurturing and selling young talent was to invest in establishing us as an SPL side first.
Spoke to people in football at the time. The hottest young prospects in Scottish football do not sign for championship or league one sides, they want to be in the youth set up of an SPL team.
Additionally it is hard to get value for players you are selling as a championship or L1 side. If they’ve played well in the SPL you can command a much better transfer fee. Consider Edward’s, had he played a good season in the SPL, you could probably have got 10x the transfer fee.
Post Edited (Fri 25 Apr 12:27)
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Topic Originator: SeasonedPar
Date: Fri 25 Apr 12:31
Quote:
wee eck, Fri 25 Apr 10:27
Another strange theory about the previous regime was that they delegated the big decisions to the CEO and the financial losses were down to him. I hardly think they achieved their millionaire status by handing their cheque books over to paid employees. The problem was they were unable or unwilling to communicate their vision to the fans.
I’d agree with most of that Eck, but still feel their biggest mistake was not investing enough in the first team. Those who questioned that idea, and I don’t mean millions of pounds, but a few proven Championship players, were derided by them as “wanting to throw money at it”.
Back on topic..
I get people’s frustration with players. It’s a forum. The repetitive, unwilling to listen to others or just make their point and then leave it are what gets me.
Post Edited (Fri 25 Apr 12:32)
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Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Fri 25 Apr 22:30
McPake left the two last managers with our no1 striker with injury problems,
the next 2 with injury problems and don`t score enough, and youngsters who are unproven at this level, no players with real pace, and no creative midfielders.
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Sun 27 Apr 13:23
Looks like we’re going down this route again with the Yeboah and Oluwayemi threads…
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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