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Topic Originator: bannerpar
Date: Sun 28 Sep 16:54
In the melee at the sending off, Lee Ashcroft and Charlie Gilmour looked as if they were arranging to meet up in the tunnel after the game. Hope they had time to cool down by then! Wonder if we will see any afters from them in future meetings of the sides.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Sun 28 Sep 21:31
Judging by the highlights alone and studying frame by frame, I think Jeff was hard done by wi that red card. The jag was fouling him from first contact, and kept fouling him - he didn`t let go of Jeff`s shirt but yanked him back - and crucially - yanked him so hard it appears he caused them to meet head to head. Lenno was a long way from the incident, but post match he was scathing of Jeff, as if our man was entirely to blame and nutted the jag on purpose. Is anyone absolutely certain there was intent?
Otherwise, I thought Lenno was fairly encouraging in his comments, and although I think he was right that our goalie slipped up on the second goal, he omitted to say that he also made two fantastic goal-preventing saves.
Post Edited (Sun 28 Sep 21:32)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 28 Sep 21:40
That was never in a million years a red card. He was pulled into it by the Partick player. I hope it gets appealed as I`m getting pretty fed up of poor referee decisions.
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Topic Originator: Jeffery
Date: Sun 28 Sep 21:49
Looks appealable to me.
Other teams are doing a much better job of playing the `game of ref` than we are.
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Topic Originator: Dumpster
Date: Sun 28 Sep 23:16
I’ve watched the sending off incident a few times and to me It looks a sending off all day long, I’m afraid. While Thistle player has hold off Jefferson’s shirt, he knows what he’s doing putting his head into the Thistle player.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Mon 29 Sep 00:29
I don’t think we’ll appeal that. It is what it is. I hope it’s stung enough that they won’t try and man handle him like that the next time we play
COYP
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Mon 29 Sep 07:25
I thought at the time the pulling of the shirt was so strong it unbalanced the player off his feet and he was naturally falling. But I was assured by the people around me it was deliberate.
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Topic Originator: Lesliepartoo
Date: Mon 29 Sep 08:33
Looks to me in the replay that the partick player pulled him towards him..a thought that at the time too sitting in the north west
Cmon ye pars
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Topic Originator: nick_dafc1
Date: Mon 29 Sep 08:48
That`s a red all day long. caceres asking for that by putting his head in. Refs may be terrible but that`s one they got correct.
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Topic Originator: MinnesotaAndy
Date: Mon 29 Sep 08:57
A friend of mine, not into football, pretty much thinks that all the shirt pulling that goes on in football is patently absurd. Personally, I would like to see an attempt to seriously reducing the amount of shirt pulling. VAR could be used for this, with a yellow card for each and every shirt pull.
I agree with the manager that the Pars could have taken something from each of the three lost games.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 29 Sep 09:13
Maybe need to get skin tight strips for next season.
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Topic Originator: ParfectXI
Date: Mon 29 Sep 09:23
Those saying it was never a red card or “appealable” are just wishful thinking I’m afraid! Absolute Red card all day long for violent conduct despite the circumstances that the jersey was being pulled! Appealing could have a detrimental effect of increasing the match ban so its right not to go there!
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Mon 29 Sep 10:10
It’s a red card all day long. Sorry
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Mon 29 Sep 10:15
I wasn’t able to see the game on Saturday, so just watched the highlights
With regard to the second goal, I have some sympathy with the goalie. I’m not sure he was at fault too much. For me, Fraser was more culpable. Mistake one was allowing Chalmers to come in on his strong side. Mistake two was turning 360 degrees and therefore not sure where the ball was.
I have to agree with Lennon in respect that we got into several good positions in the first half, but a combination of poor finishing, bad decision making and not getting a wee rub of the green, meant we couldn’t score.
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
Post Edited (Mon 29 Sep 10:15)
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Mon 29 Sep 11:17
We had 4/5 chances that should have been taken!
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Topic Originator: allanwilson10
Date: Mon 29 Sep 11:53
Red card all day long - however, if the ref had done his job properly and gave us the free kick for the shirt pulling, it might never have happened. To award Partick the free kick was ridiculous.
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Mon 29 Sep 13:16
A shame there wasn`t a clearer angle on Kane being hauled back when he was about to nod it into the empty net following Cáceres` shot being blocked. He was going mental at the time hut no other player appealed. Certainly looks like he was being pulled by the collar although he should have been stronger and held off his man. There is an angle of the melee from the Partick end which shows that Gilmour was booked for nothing snd that their number 14 (don`t have a team sheet handy) aimed at kick at Amade. Sadly the ref didn`t see this as he was to busy showing Cáceres the red card. Was poor refereeing I thought - he should have ensured all the handbags were put away first before dealing with the Peruvian. Also can see why folk think he was hard done by - looks as though he was pulled back with two hands and that may have caused him to go into O`Reilly. Really hard to make out if he then angles his head in or of it was just a natural reaction but despite it looking harsh, I don`t think we`d win an appeal.
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Topic Originator: GJS93
Date: Mon 29 Sep 13:21
^^
Post Edited (Wed 01 Oct 14:34)
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Mon 29 Sep 13:39
So.
Clear foul. There`s no excuse for the ref not seeing that. Kane`s naked back is visible.
No attempt to the play ball.
Clear goalscoring opportunity.
That`s a penalty and red. Clear as day.
Complete incompetence.
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Topic Originator: 1985Par
Date: Mon 29 Sep 14:46
Thought at the time that their opener was poor defending - having seen the highlights Tod does well to win the ball in the air from a speculative cross. Unlucky for us the ball broke to the feet of their player who took it well. Second goal, great strike, fair play. We`re 2 down without really having done much wrong. Kane should have had a penalty and we`re back in it. Caceras sending off unfortunate in my book. Clearly gets pulled, instinctively turns round to square up to a guy who`s face is already in his face and there`s contact. Down to 10 men it`s pretty much game over.
Post Edited (Mon 29 Sep 14:48)
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Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Mon 29 Sep 17:59
Quote:
1985Par, Mon 29 Sept 14:46
Thought at the time that their opener was poor defending - having seen the highlights Tod does well to win the ball in the air from a speculative cross. Unlucky for us the ball broke to the feet of their player who took it well. Second goal, great strike, fair play. We`re 2 down without really having done much wrong. Kane should have had a penalty and we`re back in it. Caceras sending off unfortunate in my book. Clearly gets pulled, instinctively turns round to square up to a guy who`s face is already in his face and there`s contact. Down to 10 men it`s pretty much game over.
Good summary.
I was also thinking Tod did not deliberately head across goals. He won a difficult challenge, but the ball broke badly.
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Topic Originator: Jeffery
Date: Mon 29 Sep 19:06
The movement on the ball for their second is like punting a Shoot 5 in a gale. Not surprised the keeper missed it.
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Topic Originator: MinnesotaAndy
Date: Tue 30 Sep 10:04
On COWS, in the article "Charlie Gilmour rues missed chances", there is a pic that shows Cáceres on the receiving end of a pull with both hands.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Tue 30 Sep 10:43
Thanks for that Minnesota
Quote:
When asked about Cáceres’ dismissal for lashing out at Dan O’Reilly, Charlie was quick to defend his colleague: “Jeff’s my guy, and I’ll always back Jeff, and he’s been class ever since he’s come in. So, he’ll just have to swallow this one, then I’m sure he’ll come back and he’ll help positively. He’s disappointed, just like us all, he’ll be more frustrated than all of us, I can tell you that.”
---------------------------------
I coudn`t see no lashing out on the highlights, but I accept that Charlie will know better than me. And I`m glad he said he`ll always back Jeff, because I didn`t want Jeff to get peed off just because he got angry wi a thug, who btw got off scot free when he should have been booked and the free kick should have gone to us.
Post Edited (Tue 30 Sep 10:44)
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Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks
Date: Tue 30 Sep 10:58
onandupthepars wrote:
> Thanks for that Minnesota
>
>
>
> Quote:
>
> When asked about Cáceres’ dismissal for lashing out at Dan
> O’Reilly, Charlie was quick to defend his colleague:
> “Jeff’s my guy, and I’ll always back Jeff, and he’s
> been class ever since he’s come in. So, he’ll just have to
> swallow this one, then I’m sure he’ll come back and he’ll
> help positively. He’s disappointed, just like us all, he’ll
> be more frustrated than all of us, I can tell you that.”
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> I coudn`t see no lashing out on the highlights, but I accept
> that Charlie will know better than me. And I`m glad he said
> he`ll always back Jeff, because I didn`t want Jeff to get peed
> off just because he got angry wi a thug, who btw got off scot
> free when he should have been booked and the free kick should
> have gone to us.
>
>
>
> Post Edited (Tue 30 Sep 10:44)
He`s stuck the head on the Partick player, YouTube allows you to slow the video down to quarter speed if you`re still struggling.
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Tue 30 Sep 11:15
Whether or not Caceres deserved to be sent off he was completely `done` by O`Reilly`s gamemanship/sh*thousery.
Same as JCM v Ayr where the Ayr players overreactions convinced the ref to give a booking for something that wasn`t even a definitive foul.
Maybe we`re a bit naive in giving the opportunity, but equally, if JCM hadn`t gone in for the ball there people on here would be giving him pelters for not being `strong enough` or not `wanting it` enough.
Right now, there`s no consequence for sh*thousery, it`s all upside for those that engage in it. If it works they get a decision, if it doesn`t nothing happens. Reminds me of kids tennis tournaments where kids are incentivised to make dodgy line calls - they win a point if it goes well, and even if they get caught there`s no consequence other than losing a point they`d already lost.
Ref`s just need to be better.
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Tue 30 Sep 12:43
Ref: Westies
"He`s stuck the head on the Partick player, YouTube allows you to slow the video down to quarter speed"
----------------
Could you give a link for that Westies?
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Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks
Date: Tue 30 Sep 14:20
onandupthepars wrote:
> Ref: Westies
>
> "He`s stuck the head on the Partick player, YouTube allows you
> to slow the video down to quarter speed"
>
> ----------------
>
> Could you give a link for that Westies?
>
>
Top of the thread, bottom right corner for playback speed setting.
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Topic Originator: thebear
Date: Tue 30 Sep 14:40
Caceras sending off is a joke, possibly a yellow, but two of their players should gave been booked due to their response
Very sad that pro players play act like this, meaning it costs money to the player and the club for play acting
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Tue 30 Sep 17:59
Thanks for that info Westies.
If there are any others who are only at basic level with techie stuff and who didn`t know about that slow-mo function and would like to check what appears to be pretty conclusive evidence, I`ll try and give the procedure step by step:
1. Go to the (Youtube) highlights as posted by Brian in the OP of this thread.
2. Go to 7.38 in the highlights and pause it.
3. Click the cog (/settings) symbol at bottom right of the screen.
4. Look for the arrow to the right of `playback speed` and click it.
5. Click 0.25 for the slowest playback speed.
6. Watch from 7.38 to the moment of head to head contact at 7.41.
After watching it several times I think Jeff springs back towards the jags man, and makes head to head contact. If you look very carefully, it appears to me that, after that contact the Jags man stands for a split second - hesitating for a moment as if he thinks about retaliating - then falls backwards holding his face.
I agree with Bandy, Tue 30 Sep 11:15, quote:
`Whether or not Caceres deserved to be sent off he was completely `done` by O`Reilly`s gamemanship/sh*thousery.
Same as JCM v Ayr where the Ayr players overreactions convinced the ref to give a booking for something that wasn`t even a definitive foul...
Right now, there`s no consequence for sh*thousery, it`s all upside for those that engage in it. If it works they get a decision, if it doesn`t nothing happens. Reminds me of kids tennis tournaments where kids are incentivised to make dodgy line calls - they win a point if it goes well, and even if they get caught there`s no consequence other than losing a point they`d already lost.
Ref`s just need to be better.`
Post Edited (Tue 30 Sep 18:03)
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Tue 30 Sep 18:19
And is it not a wee bit telling that no-one - not even any Jags players, nor officials - are the least bit interested in the Jags player who is lying face down, motionless faking a serious head injury, or even instant death!
They all walk past him, ignoring him completely for 15 seconds or more, and while they`re all busy sticking the knife in Jeff, the faking jag rolls over face up, but noticing that everybody`s about to move back in his direction, he rolls over again to resume his face down `dead` position.
Then one of his mates bends down and taps him on the shoulder as if to say, it`s alright, he`s off, you can get up now.
Post Edited (Tue 30 Sep 18:38)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 30 Sep 18:51
I`d say football has always penalised retaliation more severely than the provocation, which, to some extent, condones the initial bad behaviour.
Post Edited (Tue 30 Sep 18:53)
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Topic Originator: onandupthepars
Date: Tue 30 Sep 19:44
Bring in the sin bin! Half an hour in the bin for Daniel O`Reilly would not have been harsh.
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Topic Originator: JTH123
Date: Tue 30 Sep 20:00
Quote:
wee eck, Tue 30 Sep 18:51
I`d say football has always penalised retaliation more severely than the provocation, which, to some extent, condones the initial bad behaviour.
Correct. We need to be smarter.
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Tue 30 Sep 21:21
It`s not condoned. It`s encouraged and rewarded, with absolutely no risk to the initiator.
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Topic Originator: we won the cup in 68
Date: Wed 1 Oct 14:29
What happened to the picture GJS93 posted of Kane’s shirt being pulled?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 1 Oct 14:30
Quote:
we won the cup in 68, Wed 1 Oct 14:29
What happened to the picture GJS93 posted of Kane’s shirt being pulled?
Partick fans not seeing the irony of not getting a penalty last night when the same thing happened to one of their players 🤦♂️
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Topic Originator: we won the cup in 68
Date: Wed 1 Oct 14:36
That’s exactly why I was looking for it!
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 1 Oct 15:29
Quote:
wee eck, Tue 30 Sept 18:51
I`d say football has always penalised retaliation more severely than the provocation, which, to some extent, condones the initial bad behaviour.
Correct, wee Eck. How many times was the late, great Alex Edwards sent off for retaliation? And how many times were his opponents dismissed at the same time?
Once, if memory serves. Maybe you can name him?
Not your average Sunday League player.
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