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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Sat 3 Jan 20:58
There is a good post by GJS93 on the Rumours thread, which highlights an article about Short Circuit from the Sheffield Star. This article talks about how the Short Circuit systems are behind the plethora of below standard signings for Sheffield United, and how they won`t be using it anymore. Bord`s involvement in the Sheffield Wednesday potential takeover won`t have helped that particular relationship either, but I have read online previously, various fans and writers talking about the disastrous transfer dealings which in the eyes of some have seen the worst transfer window ever, and set the club back twenty years.
It got me thinking of the players we have seen brought in here over the last year, and I`ve been weighing up whether or not it could be classed as successful. Possibly some signings may be down to Lennon and his team and others may have been the Short Circuit AI. Overall, to me, it looks like an experiment that isn`t quite working yet, More misses than hits so far, but time is on the side of a fair few of them, and there`s been enough flashes to see that some of these might develop well for us
Ephraim Yeboah - MISS
Connor Young - MISS
Jeremiah Chikoloa-Mullen - OK
Andrew Raymond - MISS
Victor Wanyama - MISS
Omar Taylor-Clarke - MISS
Tashan Oakley-Boothe - MISS
Owen Hampson - MISS
Keith Bray - OK, very young
Archie Stevens - MISS
Mason Munn - MISS
Billy Terrell - OK
Nurudeen Abdulai - HIT
Robbie Fraser - HIT
Shea Kearney - OK, but will come good
Alfons Amade - not quite the level needed
Charlie Gilmour - HIT
Jefferson Caceres - MISS
MacLeod - OK, very young
Zak Rudden - OK, will come good once he gets over his injury
Barney Stewart - HIT
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Topic Originator: Athletico
Date: Sat 3 Jan 21:13
Quote:
red-star-par, Sat 3 Jan 20:58
There is a good post by GJS93 on the Rumours thread, which highlights an article about Short Circuit from the Sheffield Star. This article talks about how the Short Circuit systems are behind the plethora of below standard signings for Sheffield United, and how they won`t be using it anymore. Bord`s involvement in the Sheffield Wednesday potential takeover won`t have helped that particular relationship either, but I have read online previously, various fans and writers talking about the disastrous transfer dealings which in the eyes of some have seen the worst transfer window ever, and set the club back twenty years.
It got me thinking of the players we have seen brought in here over the last year, and I`ve been weighing up whether or not it could be classed as successful. Possibly some signings may be down to Lennon and his team and others may have been the Short Circuit AI. Overall, to me, it looks like an experiment that isn`t quite working yet, More misses than hits so far, but time is on the side of a fair few of them, and there`s been enough flashes to see that some of these might develop well for us
Ephraim Yeboah - MISS
Connor Young - MISS
Jeremiah Chikoloa-Mullen - OK
Andrew Raymond - MISS
Victor Wanyama - MISS
Omar Taylor-Clarke - MISS
Tashan Oakley-Boothe - MISS
Owen Hampson - MISS
Keith Bray - OK, very young
Archie Stevens - MISS
Mason Munn - MISS
Billy Terrell - OK
Nurudeen Abdulai - HIT
Robbie Fraser - HIT
Shea Kearney - OK, but will come good
Alfons Amade - not quite the level needed
Charlie Gilmour - HIT
Jefferson Caceres - MISS
MacLeod - OK, very young
Zak Rudden - OK, will come good once he gets over his injury
Barney Stewart - HIT
Mullen - Ok? Has been at standout in many a game, is still a bit raw, but you don`t get asked to train with the Mens national team for nothing or get called up to every U21s squad.
Alfons Amade - Not quite the level needed. That will be the boy who has played comfortably in Belgium`s top league and is currently still in the last 16 of the African Nations Cup?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 3 Jan 21:23
Which were identified by AI vs traditional scouting?
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Topic Originator: neilholland999
Date: Sat 3 Jan 21:24
I very much doubt all of those players were signed on the back of an AI recommendation.
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Topic Originator: Bertie Paton
Date: Sat 3 Jan 21:25
So the last minute January signings from last year were pretty much rubbish, the summer sigings were pretty good.
Pleased enough by how things are going.
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Topic Originator: neils
Date: Sat 3 Jan 21:55
Looks like most of the ones brought in a rush last season, all kids, in a relegation fight were a miss.
Most of the ones brought in and had a pre season were a hit, or good enough.
I think you`re not understanding what AI is, it`s not something that churns out robots or anything, at the moment it`s various things- in our every day use we can use it to sift through huge amounts of data to get what we need without bleeding our brain -for work, and we have an ageing population it can replace many menial functions- many can`t be replaced. We have a long term low unemployment rate and a poor skills base- surely this is good? In my line of work ( and I`m part retired) it`s replacing the dog work in mathematical calculations, profiles of clients, and enacting some prices, and it will grow- but all of this is from human input etc.
As far as I can read, they are modelling also, their previous employers I know of , so the data is extremely valuable, they seem to be really quite open- they are trying to identify talent. Well, when was the last time we had several internationals? And not on a fortune .
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Topic Originator: Turps
Date: Sat 3 Jan 22:06
Hard to judge the January signings. It was panic stations chucking anything at it to keep us up.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sat 3 Jan 22:58
From a club perspective, I suspect Hit, Miss and OK will be reasonably impacted by the change in asset value over time, and it`s fine in this industry to have a few disappointing outcomes if you have a smaller number of high value outcomes.
And, as stated in previous comment, the value of helping to refine any model built will be a key outcome over time for the investors. The size of the dataset is going to be a challenge though I suspect..... lots of parameters and variability.
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Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie
Date: Sun 4 Jan 07:55
Majority of the successes will be old school traditional scouting, contacts and relationships/knowledge that Lennon has built up over the years.
JCM and Abdulai are two definite hits from the data driven stuff.
---------------------------------------------------------------
"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
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Topic Originator: Lesliepartoo
Date: Sun 4 Jan 08:57
Have to agree about archie stevens being a miss but hes at arsenal now on 8k a week. God knows how tbh
Cmon ye pars
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Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Sun 4 Jan 09:33
Quote:
Lesliepartoo, Sun 4 Jan 08:57
Have to agree about archie stevens being a miss but hes at arsenal now on 8k a week. God knows how tbh
Because i don`t honestly think we in Scotland can comprehend the money in the English game.
Marc McNulty was playing for Coventry during admin and was taking home 12k a week basic, up to 27/30 k with bonuses, it`s silly money down there.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
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Topic Originator: Athletico
Date: Sun 4 Jan 10:43
Quote:
Lesliepartoo, Sun 4 Jan 08:57
Have to agree about archie stevens being a miss but hes at arsenal now on 8k a week. God knows how tbh
The boy was barely 18 when he was with us. Already written off by Pars fans because he wasn`t tearing it up at the first ask of 1st team football.
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Topic Originator: Lesliepartoo
Date: Sun 4 Jan 11:31
Quote:
Athletico, Sun 4 Jan 10:43
Quote:
Lesliepartoo, Sun 4 Jan 08:57
Have to agree about archie stevens being a miss but hes at arsenal now on 8k a week. God knows how tbh
The boy was barely 18 when he was with us. Already written off by Pars fans because he wasn`t tearing it up at the first ask of 1st team football.
A seen him a few times in the lowland league for rangers b and seriously never seen anything about him. More so when when signed him cos he was nothing special at that level either.
Cmon ye pars
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Topic Originator: Sacktheref69
Date: Sun 4 Jan 13:40
Stevens was rotten for us, he never took anyone on. Just another name in the long line of players who will live off being at Arsenal u21`s to kick around seaside leagues.
This is Andy Tod`s world and we are lucky to live in it.
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Sun 4 Jan 14:19
An article in Sport Witness regarding an interview with Jefferson Caceres in Peru over the Christmas break, he says that Sheffield United has first option on him if he moves away from Dunfermline. He came to Scotland to get more regular game time.
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Sun 4 Jan 20:07
There was an excellent interview with the Hearts boss Derek McInnis on how they operate with this system.
While he doesn’t get to choose players directly, he does get to interview them on camera and if they don’t fit in with how he wants them in terms of attitude, ambition etc his views are respected and they aren’t signed.
In that respect it’s not really different to the old school scouting system just a different approach.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sun 4 Jan 22:17
Quote:
AdamAntsParsStripe, Sun 4 Jan 20:07
There was an excellent interview with the Hearts boss Derek McInnis on how they operate with this system.
While he doesn’t get to choose players directly, he does get to interview them on camera and if they don’t fit in with how he wants them in terms of attitude, ambition etc his views are respected and they aren’t signed.
In that respect it’s not really different to the old school scouting system just a different approach.
The old school scouting system involved going to watch them play on a number of occasions.
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: Par-timer
Date: Sun 4 Jan 23:01
To freshen the squad up, I wonder if there may be a further (loan?) exchange of players with Bord’s Bulgarian team, Septemvri Sofia, where Mebude went and from where Amade later arrived. Septemvri are next to bottom of the Bulgarian top flight this season, and looking at their roster, several of their foreign signings have failed to impress. With our growing collection of internationals, perhaps Comoros international Faïz Mattoir might be of interest. With experience in the second tier in both France and Holland as well as eighteen international caps, the diminutive forward might bring us a different dimension and reignite his own career having played only 142 minutes over six appearances for Septemvri. There are a few of his goals on YouTube for both club(s) and country. Madagascar international Nicolas Fontaine might be another option, although he has had more success at Septemvri with three goals in eleven appearances this season, and has an interesting CV with youth stints at RB Leipzig and Lyon.
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Topic Originator: Connor560
Date: Tue 6 Jan 18:57
Bord confirmed to be part of consortium to buy Wednesday
C'mon Ye Pars!
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 6 Jan 19:00
Barry Bannan running the midfield?!!!
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Topic Originator: Kozmano1
Date: Tue 6 Jan 19:18
https://www.sportsboom.co.uk/football/transfer-news/exclusive-prospective-new-sheffield-wednesday-owner-james-bord-has-given-owls-muchneeded-funds-to-help-stricken-championship-club
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 6 Jan 19:22
Apparently the Labour MP wants answers about Bord`s involvement 🙄
"That may echo with Dunfermline fans, who have heard nothing from Bord himself since an open letter written at the time of his East End Park takeover almost 12 months ago."
Wasn't he in Legends a couple of weeks ago getting a round in?
Post Edited (Tue 06 Jan 19:24)
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Topic Originator: neils
Date: Tue 6 Jan 19:58
I think they`ve been completely upfront with the fans from the start.
We now have a pretty good structure, with Cook giving us regular updates, pretty comprehensive - even before this takeover I always found he did as much as he could, despite criticism, I`ve found him decent.
They explained in some detail what they wanted to do, and they wouldn`t be seen a lot, but they are clearly heavily involved. There`s been visible improvements. Even something as obvious as the pitch, well that costs a lot, but it was a priority.
Many clubs have absentee owners, and silence. But I don`t see this for us.
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Tue 6 Jan 20:28
Quote:
jake89, Tue 6 Jan 19:22
Apparently the Labour MP wants answers about Bord`s involvement 🙄
"That may echo with Dunfermline fans, who have heard nothing from Bord himself since an open letter written at the time of his East End Park takeover almost 12 months ago."
Wasn`t he in Legends a couple of weeks ago getting a round in?
That`s a bit rich coming from our local MP, he`s barely been seen since he won his seat
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Tue 6 Jan 21:59
Quote:
red-star-par, Tue 6 Jan 20:28
Quote:
jake89, Tue 6 Jan 19:22
Apparently the Labour MP wants answers about Bord`s involvement 🙄
"That may echo with Dunfermline fans, who have heard nothing from Bord himself since an open letter written at the time of his East End Park takeover almost 12 months ago."
Wasn`t he in Legends a couple of weeks ago getting a round in?
That`s a bit rich coming from our local MP, he`s barely been seen since he won his seat
I don’t even know his name?
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Tue 6 Jan 22:19
Yeah, I can never remember his name, basically because he does nothing, he`s like the invisible man. Just googled it, Graeme Downie. For some reason I always think it`s Graham Hastie or Hardie.
Whatever his name is, he is absolutely useless, the worst MP we have ever had (and we`ve had Thomas Docherty).
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 6 Jan 22:29
It was the MP in Sheffield rather than Dunfermline. Our own MP as mentioned is Graeme Downie (there IS a Graeme Hastie but he works in mortgages and may well be a poster on here).
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Topic Originator: Never10yairds
Date: Tue 6 Jan 22:35
Bit rich coming from Downie who routinely ignores emails from constituents he is supposed to represent. What a ****.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 7 Jan 10:49
Quote:
Never10yairds, Tue 6 Jan 22:35
Bit rich coming from Downie who routinely ignores emails from constituents he is supposed to represent. What a ****.
It wasn`t Downie, though he`s pretty good at highlighting things that aren`t within his remit when he has a point to score then deflecting off to councillors and MSPs when he can`t be bothered. Labour just aren`t Labour anymore.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 7 Jan 13:21
Going back on topic - the SW fans are an interesting bunch. Some seem convinced SW will become the Dunfermline B team while others are saying Bord`s investment in the Pars has been crap and SW need big name signings as they`ll be the biggest team he owns.
Few of them seem to understand that Bord seems happy to take a gamble (pun intended) but he`s not going to splash cash on a poor investment. He`ll have a degree of caution.
Almost guaranteed to be relegated this season and these guys are expecting miracles. It`s incredible.
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Topic Originator: GJS93
Date: Wed 7 Jan 13:45
^^ thats the same at every club, although the bigger the club the more people think that.
in terms of the AI, data driven or old school scouting, dont think any system will guarantee success but you will be looking for the same thing whatever system it is....better, bigger, stronger, quicker and ideally cheaper.
Post Edited (Wed 07 Jan 13:56)
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Topic Originator: neils
Date: Wed 7 Jan 13:59
Thing is, we are a completely different size to Wednesday, the similarities are I guess a real hardcore fan base with a big upside.
But for us, it`s probably limited to being a decent top flight team (easy to say) with the odd European journey - it`s possible, but some way off
For Wednesday they have a large fan base, but the investment needed to be even a decent Championship club is massive.
I guess the scouting system, AI and human is the key, like Brentford identify players that can play at a higher level that don`t fit the usual systems and go unnoticed.
I`m happy with this for us, we have been fishing in the same pool as everyone else for players with limited success, let`s see.
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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Wed 7 Jan 15:07
Quote:
jake89, Wed 7 Jan 13:21
Going back on topic - the SW fans are an interesting bunch. Some seem convinced SW will become the Dunfermline B team while others are saying Bord`s investment in the Pars has been crap and SW need big name signings as they`ll be the biggest team he owns.
Let’s be honest, SW will be the biggest club he owns….however he is now competing in a very saturated market down south. In that, what I mean is, he is competing against many millionaires, billionaires and huge corporations. He can invest a lot of his own worth and he could lose it.
He’ll have a plan, there’s no doubt about it, and he’s not going to throw all his eggs into 1 basket. He just might look at what he has here as the bigger avenue to achieve whatever it is that his intention is, with buying football clubs. There’s not as much competition in here, and potentially could become a big fish in a small pond.
Time will tell, if I’m being honest. As long as his intentions with us are good, and he builds Dunfermline Athletic up to be the club we all want, then that’s good news to me!
Loving You, Is In My DNA 🇾🇪
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