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Topic Originator: kevc007
Date: Wed 13 May 22:01
I am disgusted and ashamed that the top league in scottish football has come to this.
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Topic Originator: dd23
Date: Wed 13 May 22:14
It was a penalty though, given by VAR. Don’t know the exact time play stopped but I think it was within the minimum of the added 5 minutes.
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Topic Originator: Jock Par36
Date: Wed 13 May 22:16
It makes you wonder why Celtic get so much extra
time every time they need a result. Was it even a penalty.
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Topic Originator: Bamba-Daft
Date: Wed 13 May 22:17
The ball landed 20 yards away for a throw in.. if that’s come off his hand it’s never travelling that distance!
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Topic Originator: dd23
Date: Wed 13 May 22:19
Ok I take back what I said. Having seen the replays now it doesn’t look like his hand.
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Topic Originator: Higgys Mohawk
Date: Wed 13 May 22:48
They should get the audio of that VAR.
I cannot see how it hits his hand. So how is it a clear and obvious error? No Celtic players claim for it. It’s absolute madness.
Would it have been given the other way if that was a Motherwell ball into the box and Celtic hand?
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Topic Originator: KnebworthPar
Date: Wed 13 May 22:55
Depressingly predictable. Will be the same at the final.
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Topic Originator: 87Par
Date: Wed 13 May 22:56
Outrageous decision
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Topic Originator: Adundeemonkey
Date: Wed 13 May 23:24
Hearts should forfeit the last game and not turn up after that. It`s pathetic how corrupt Scottish Football is.
Its tuff being a Par but we love it!
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Topic Originator: dafc-chris1
Date: Wed 13 May 23:27
Hearts will not lose on Saturday and will win the league.
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Topic Originator: vasco
Date: Wed 13 May 23:30
It’ll finish Celtic 2 Hearts 0
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Topic Originator: Par
Date: Thu 14 May 04:11
We have already experienced it in a final against them. I wouldn`t be surprised if it happened again. Scottish football is completely corrupt and as the Motherwell manager said "what are we even doing here with discissions like that"
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Topic Originator: dd23
Date: Thu 14 May 05:24
It’s going to be even harder for us at Hampden now. Clearly the authorities won’t want us to win and go in to the Europa League, drop the rangers down to the Conference League because the fall out in the west of Scotland will be nuclear.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Thu 14 May 06:04
Very, very debatable. I can`t see how that was a clear and obvious error by the referee, so why ask him to go and look at the monitor? He`s then under pressure to award the penalty, even though I understand he can stick with his original decision.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 14 May 08:02
Why did the Motherwell player have his hand up in front of his face? Players seem to do the strangest things under pressure against the OF.
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Topic Originator: BouncyPar
Date: Thu 14 May 08:06
Quote:
wee eck, Thu 14 May 08:02
Why did the Motherwell player have his hand up in front of his face? Players seem to do the strangest things under pressure against the OF.
Seems like a fairly normal place for his left arm/hand during the initial jump to gain leverage, but he then couldn`t lower it as the celtic player was under his elbow.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 14 May 08:18
I can understand him having difficulty lowering it but why not move it to the left away from his face as the ball arrived?
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Topic Originator: Jeffery
Date: Thu 14 May 08:19
^^^ this is the issue for me. A totally natural way to jump for a header and his arm wouldn`t have been there had the Celtic player not jumped from under him.
The laws of the game might say it`s a penalty but the laws are lacking nuance for these kinds of incidents.
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Topic Originator: BouncyPar
Date: Thu 14 May 08:28
Quote:
wee eck, Thu 14 May 08:18
I can understand him having difficulty lowering it but why not move it to the left away from his face as the ball arrived?
My view of it is that the celtic player rises up beneath/alongside him, so his arm appears to almost be pushed upwards with nowhere to put it. The celtic player going down like he`d been shot in the face also suggests that there was contact with the elbow, meaning he couldn`t move it further away.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Thu 14 May 09:01
Quote:
BouncyPar, Thu 14 May 08:28
Quote:
wee eck, Thu 14 May 08:18
I can understand him having difficulty lowering it but why not move it to the left away from his face as the ball arrived?
My view of it is that the celtic player rises up beneath/alongside him, so his arm appears to almost be pushed upwards with nowhere to put it. The celtic player going down like he`d been shot in the face also suggests that there was contact with the elbow, meaning he couldn`t move it further away.
That’s my view as well. Only Celtic could initiate contact and get the penalty 🤷🏻♂️
Well Rangers could as well…
COYP
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Thu 14 May 09:03
Quote:
wee eck, Thu 14 May 08:18
I can understand him having difficulty lowering it but why not move it to the left away from his face as the ball arrived?
If his arms been pushed into that position how’s he going to be able to? Also, how quickly do you expect him to react?
COYP
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Topic Originator: Parsdaft21346327964
Date: Thu 14 May 09:04
Yeah it’s like saying when we get near the box just grab a hold of the players arm and swing it at the ball since you can get penalties for it now
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Topic Originator: TrancePar
Date: Thu 14 May 09:17
They could at least make it look less obvious that the SFA are desperate for Celtic to win the league.
I`m gonna assume Hearts get a man sent off early on on Saturday and Celtic win :(
Hopefully we don`t get the same fate on final day but who knows.
Life is made of small moments like these
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Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Thu 14 May 09:29
Considering Cellic continually go on about how corrupt Mr Beaton and Dallas are ,this surely puts this conspiracy nonsence to bed, Beaton has awarded Cellic penalties in Old firm game and now this one .
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Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford
Date: Thu 14 May 09:35
What would be really useful to the reputation of Scottish football would be for a showpiece event in the near future where the underdog gets a couple of marginal decisions in their favour.
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Topic Originator: pars no1
Date: Thu 14 May 09:38
The simple question is. Would they have given that to Motherwell at the same stage of the game? No. Will they give it to hearts on Saturday no.
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Topic Originator: Jock Par36
Date: Thu 14 May 09:45
Terrible decision, no way is that a penalty. Hearts had
a much clearer one, turned down against Motherwell
last week. They don`t want anyone else winning the league
bar Rangers or Celtic. Scottish football has been corrupt for
years and it has to change
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Topic Originator: JimDAFC
Date: Thu 14 May 10:24
I just wonder if the motherwell player thought he could header the ball and at the same time protect his face with his hand but in the tussle he ended up heading both his hand and the ball , this would exxplain how he got so much distance on the ball. But i dont think VAR should have got involved as it was not an obvious mistake by the ref.
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Topic Originator: thebear
Date: Thu 14 May 10:35
Very sad OF take most of prize and tv money, and sfa can`t see past them, so on Saturday it will be fudged
What even worse is that sfa can`t see right from wrong and are scared of the OF
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 14 May 10:42
The officials assigned to the Celtic-Hearts game on Saturday are going to be under tremendous pressure. I don`t believe there`s a conspiracy at play but referees are only human (apparently) and you can`t help feeling that, if there`s going to be a controversial decision involving an OF club, there`s likely to be less flak if they rule in favour of them rather than against them and you wonder if that affects their thinking, maybe even subconsciously..
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Thu 14 May 10:55
There must be a review during close season of ALL Scottish VAR decisions and establish a specific guideline for consistency in decisions within the individual referee and between referees. The problem is that we have absolutely no idea how consistent these decisions are statistically. Paired analysis testing of referees and VAR works.
I think football management of the implementation is wrong, as the panacea solution to refereeing decisions is….more refereeing decisions. It just moves the problem.
How this wasn’t considered in the validation of an expensive decision to install and run VAR shows gross ineptitude of many football authorities. Did they not consider the what-ifs of implementation?
EDIT: My additional point is a well versed psychological work that if you have someone making a decision on their own without anyone watching them it will be vastly different to that decision they would take if the CEO was standing behind them. These protocols are handled in decisions of safety critical systems.
I feel a little sorry for referees when you look at it this way. As they are left to pick up what is, in effect, a broken system that became broken due to lack of foresight.
Post Edited (Thu 14 May 11:02)
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Topic Originator: Bamba-Daft
Date: Thu 14 May 10:58
I don’t think it’s a conspiracy either. It’s just cowering to them repeatedly. Any debatable decision goes in celtics favour because the referees are terrified to get one wrong against them. It’s debatable whether it hits his hand, what’s not debatable is that Trusty pushes his arm up towards the ball. It’s just simply not a penalty.
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Topic Originator: Higgys Mohawk
Date: Thu 14 May 11:01
Never gets given if it’s a potential Motherwell penalty at the other end. Beaton and Dallas should be ashamed of themselves.
The Motherwell handball last week against Hearts was more obvious….
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Topic Originator: Parsdaft21346327964
Date: Thu 14 May 11:13
“debatable whether it hits his hand”
You’ve hit the nail on the head Bamba
Var should only step in if it’s clear and obvious and the view the ref sees you can never tell 100% it hits his hand you could say it’s definitely close but not clear and obvious
You’ll get the usual apology and the should never have been a pen on the review but then the next time the ball goes in the box everyone just waiting for the ref to point to the spot and repeat nothing ever changes
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Thu 14 May 11:46
IFAB have ruined the game with their handball, phases of play and offside rules.
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: Swisspar
Date: Thu 14 May 12:05
Quote:
Jock Par36, Thu 14 May 09:45
Terrible decision, no way is that a penalty. Hearts had
a much clearer one, turned down against Motherwell
last week. They don`t want anyone else winning the league
bar Rangers or Celtic. Scottish football has been corrupt for
years and it has to change
Who was on VAR at the Hearts game, also last night`s Celtic game? Dallas !
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Topic Originator: 1985Par
Date: Thu 14 May 13:21
My issue is with the handball rule and the way it is interpreted. Whether it hits the Motherwell player on the hand or not- that doesn’t merit a free shot at goal from 12 yards. The punishment simply doesn’t fit the “crime” if, that is, a crime was committed at all. And anyone who thinks that his hand was in an unnatural position has clearly never competed with a 6ft opponent to win a header.
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Thu 14 May 13:49
I posted this on the match thread
definite corruption !
additional time was far too excessive - looking for an excuse to give Celtic a goal
motherwell players hand was pushed up by the Celtic players shoulder, and definitely not intentional. no way a penalty.
now, when you see Bobo Balde`s hand, thats a different story and a penalty.
always things are enabled for Celtic and Rangers
____________________
contact: email me
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Thu 14 May 14:24
Release the audio and let everyone hear how the decision took 15 seconds to make.
Also, this has led to the absolute panning ogf VAR in our country from both sides of the border, mainly on how terrible the production is - and I agree. Some places like Fir Park have 2 angles available and from miles away 🤷🏻♂️ its like a mini version of VAR up here.
Post Edited (Thu 14 May 14:24)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 14 May 17:02
Those who have drawn the short straws -
Don Robertson will take charge of Saturday`s potentially combustible Scottish Premiership decider between Celtic and Hearts at Parkhead.
The 39-year-old referee is accompanied by assistant referees Calum Spence and David Roome, while Kevin Clancy is the video assistant referee (VAR), assisted by Matthew MacDermid.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 14 May 17:11
The bigger concern for me was just how excited the BBC commentary team were. They were DESPERATE for it to be a penalty. It felt like I was listening to Celtic TV. I know there`s excitement and emotion in the game but there`s no way there would be that sort of reaction if it was potentially a last minute penalty for the Pars to take them within a point of the league leaders.
Scottish football needs to wake up and realise that it`s killing itself with this obsession over two clubs.
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Topic Originator: parsfan
Date: Thu 14 May 17:34
I listened off and on and put it back on near the end when I`d seen Motherwell had equalised. They sounded so down in the dumps at that point. Who knows what turned those frowns upside-down, but there was a complete 180.
I heard Celtic`s equaliser, but that was immediately after I switched it on and wondered then if they were so enthusiastic when Motherwell had scored. I missed both home goals so nothing to compare with.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 14 May 17:37
It`s good that Packie Bonner is always there to provide a bit of neutrality at Celtic games.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Thu 14 May 17:56
Quote:
Dave_1885, Thu 14 May 14:24
Release the audio and let everyone hear how the decision took 15 seconds to make.
Also, this has led to the absolute panning ogf VAR in our country from both sides of the border, mainly on how terrible the production is - and I agree. Some places like Fir Park have 2 angles available and from miles away 🤷🏻♂️ its like a mini version of VAR up here.
There’s a YouTube channel with Willie Collum once a month or so that shows you the VAR video room and opinions in real time.
I doubt you’ll see this one till after the final mind you.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: Polt
Date: Thu 14 May 18:34
The Celtic players jump angle lifted the Motherwell players arm to that level. It’s a difficult one and should have taken way more composure than the 20 seconds the ref took. The decision was huge and in comparison the West Ham v Arsenal ref took 6 minutes because of the significance of the decision. It’s a bad performance from the entire refereeing team.
We all know multiple angles can change perspective. More time and composure would have led to maybe the same decision but at least it is less disputable. Giving referees a fair bit of respect and trust that they will do the right thing.
What’s happened to us in Scotland? We once had some of the best referees in the world and the most respected coaches certificate.
I sincerely hope Hearts knock the stuffing out of them at parkhead !! They deserve this years champions title.
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Topic Originator: SeasonedPar
Date: Thu 14 May 19:19
VAR was introduced to correct “clear and obvious errors”.
Whatever we all think of VAR, there was nothing clear or obvious about that.
Hopefully these things iron out over a season, and the “whitabootery” on social media is full of it!
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Topic Originator: CrossPar
Date: Thu 14 May 22:56
Not one Scottish ref going to the World Cup. Says it all.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 15 May 06:32
Further up this thread, I stated that it was a very debatable award, and I stand by that. Since then, I`ve seen a still on X from Matt McGlone (I know, I know), which makes it look much more of a penalty. There`s a lot of hypocrisy out there. If we`re honest, it`s the kind of award almost every fan and manager would be happy to take when it`s given to their team, but absolutely raging when it`s given against For me, if there`s any doubt, I wouldn`t give it.
Do I believe Beaton and Dallas conspired to give Celtic a potentially title winning penalty deep in stoppage time?🤔 Not in a million years. 😄 I wonder if Derek McInnes will be suspended for his understandably angry post-match comments on SKY? Lennon was suspended for his criticism of Nicholson, even though it was fully justified.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Fri 15 May 09:42
"The bigger concern for me was just how excited the BBC commentary team were. They were DESPERATE for it to be a penalty. "
Not sure if you`re new to the BBC but when you have Ryan Stevenson as residential Hearts commentator, Wullie Miller resident at Pittodrie and Packie Bonnar on every Celtic game you will always get a slight "twinge" to the commentaries.
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Topic Originator: SeasonedPar
Date: Fri 15 May 09:43
Quote:
shellypar, Fri 15 May 09:13
Regardless of what happens i am proud of the boys and what they have achieved this season, and whatever league we are in come next season im sure we will build on the excellent season we have had
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Topic Originator: SeasonedPar
Date: Fri 15 May 09:44
Quote:
shellypar, Fri 15 May 09:13
Regardless of what happens i am proud of the boys and what they have achieved this season, and whatever league we are in come next season im sure we will build on the excellent season we have had
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Topic Originator: doctordandruff
Date: Fri 15 May 10:16
Quote:
GG Riva, Fri 15 May 06:32
Further up this thread, I stated that it was a very debatable award, and I stand by that. Since then, I`ve seen a still on X from Matt McGlone (I know, I know), which makes it look much more of a penalty. There`s a lot of hypocrisy out there. If we`re honest, it`s the kind of award almost every fan and manager would be happy to take when it`s given to their team, but absolutely raging when it`s given against For me, if there`s any doubt, I wouldn`t give it.
Do I believe Beaton and Dallas conspired to give Celtic a potentially title winning penalty deep in stoppage time?🤔 Not in a million years. 😄 I wonder if Derek McInnes will be suspended for his understandably angry post-match comments on SKY? Lennon was suspended for his criticism of Nicholson, even though it was fully justified.
I guess the point is that VAR chose to intervene, and Beaton based his very fast decision on the one angle that really suggests he headed the ball, and his arm position was influenced by contact from the Celtic player.
Other stills , photos and angles posted by Celtic are irrelevant here. Celtic avoided a red card against Rangers because the ref didnt get all the angles, but now they are justifying the penalty using an angle not seen by the ref. They can`t have it both ways.
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