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Topic Originator: onlytakes
Date: Wed 6 Jun 06:30
Click here
Interesting piece on erosion of Britishness in Scotland.
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Wed 6 Jun 06:50
British whether they like it or not. Or feel it or not.
What really bugs the Saltire twirlers are the English incomers, or “white settlers” as one of our resident bampots described them, who they blame for defeat in 2014.
There are dark mutterings about circumventing that next time (if there is a next time). Anyone in the know?
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Topic Originator: onlytakes
Date: Wed 6 Jun 07:16
I don't feel British but I think that's more because "British" seems to mean London to the world.
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Topic Originator: onlytakes
Date: Wed 6 Jun 08:34
Was reading the initial report. Interesting that No voters see the best days in the past whereas Yes see it in the future. Be interesting to see the age split.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 6 Jun 08:46
I remember Allan Little doing a piece for BBC TV during the Independence Referendum campaign where he put forward this theory that the erosion of 'Britishness' was due to the demise of the great nationalised industries. It seems even more prevalent now.
Is it just coincidence that recently the big retailers have been promoting the 'Britishness' of their products and that there seem to have been lots of films made in the last couple of years harking back to World War Two, or is this an attempt by the Establishment to counteract the apparent decline in the feeling of a British identity?
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Wed 6 Jun 10:14
"British whether they like it or not. Or feel it or not."
Britishness in reality is an illusion.
We have ex pat friends in the USA who took American citizenship many years ago - when they went before the Federal judge to do the formalities he remarked that when "British" applicants were asked to state their nationality they invariably responded as being English, Welsh, Scots or Irish.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Wed 6 Jun 11:30
I took out Australian citizenship when the opportunity arose and on official papers or censuses describe my country of origin as Scotland, not UK or Britain. I think that's a fairly common approach among expats; most English-born folk over here would say their country of origin was England.
I often hear the terms British or Brits at holiday resorts, but in normal day-to-day life, I think they are pretty redundant terms. Seen from afar, it is increasingly difficult to define the characteristics of Britishness these days.
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Topic Originator: WORST
Date: Wed 6 Jun 19:43
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Wed 6 Jun 20:02
Whenever I am abroad I would always say I was Scottish. I would actually be embarrassed to say British. Britain is pretty much universally hated in my experience
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Topic Originator: onlytakes
Date: Wed 6 Jun 21:27
Quote:
red-star-par, Wed 6 Jun 20:02
Whenever I am abroad I would always say I was Scottish. I would actually be embarrassed to say British. Britain is pretty much universally hated in my experience
Never met someone abroad who hates Brits but could understand why given some of the behaviour of idiots abroad (include Scottish Brits).
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Topic Originator: DRFC_no1
Date: Thu 7 Jun 02:54
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Thu 7 Jun 07:28
Everywhere I have been...and that's an extensive list...people have liked the Scottish and disliked the English/British.
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Thu 7 Jun 08:03
Is that Black, Brown, Yellow, Muslim, Sikh, Hindu etc etc British, or just the pale variety?
I’ve also been to the States, Canada, most of Europe. Nobody has ever said anything like that to me, why would they. They must keep that distaste of the English well hidden, they certainly don’t resent the custom and money that the millions of English tourists spend.
Anyone not ok with going to England, and mixing with these horrible people?
Anglophobic? Of course not!
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Thu 7 Jun 09:04
In the States I've never heard anyone say anything bad about the English but I've found you're immediately more popular if you're from either Scotland or Ireland.
From a European perspective there are definitely folk that don't like the English. I've lived in the Netherlands, Portugal and gone to school in Germany and making a distinction between being Scottish and British or English has potentially helped me avoid grief at times.
On the tourism front, I'd argue some places really do grudge it. I was lucky enough to get acquainted with a local lass in Riga and she was telling me how much the locals didn't like the English because it was stag do central and everyone was completely w@nkered causing bother all the time. I'm sure we've sent our fair share of numpties to Riga too but the English were definitely disliked more than us.
Although that's just one anecdote I can honestly say that in nearly every country in Europe I've visited, people have preferred the Scots to the English.
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Thu 7 Jun 09:20
Was listening to Out For The Weekend on radio Scotland around 6 months ago.
There was an Englishwoman who had run across South America on the programme.
She said that when she met people at first and said she was English they were quite unfriendly with her.
Then one day she was talking with someone and they asked "are you Scottish"?
As her grandmother was Scottish she just said yes. The reception she got was amazing.
She then just started to say she was Scottish to everyone and was treated totally differently. Being invited to people's home for dinner. Offered rooms for the night etc.
This is not some Anglophobia from Scots here as Mario would have you believe but is the way other nations view us compared to how they view the English.
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Thu 7 Jun 10:05
The only tiff I ever saw on holiday was in Italy last year, Scots at dinner table and conversation turned to Scottish politics...
Post Edited (Thu 07 Jun 10:09)
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Thu 7 Jun 13:19
Quote:
Mario, Thu 7 Jun 10:05
The only tiff I ever saw on holiday was in Italy last year, Scots at dinner table and conversation turned to Scottish politics...
They clearly shouldn't have been wearing Rangers tops in a restaurant while being pretend Tories then....
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Thu 7 Jun 15:38
They clearly weren’t..and I should know. I had only had three Peronis at that time so was fully mentis compost
Post Edited (Thu 07 Jun 16:36)
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Fri 8 Jun 18:56
identity is a very personal thing and can honestly say i don't feel 'british' in the slightest
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Topic Originator: calpar
Date: Fri 8 Jun 21:12
I have lived and worked abroad in various places, and nobody has ever asked me or referred to me as British, always either English, Scottish or occasionally Irish, I have never responded either as British, who does? Perhaps ex or serving military? Pretty much only time 'we' are referred to as British, and even then usually Brits, is by Irish Republicans, or our own services
Even passport control in and out doesnt have British, its UK, so, in summary fk British, noone except military are interested, a throwback to a bygone era of colonialism, get rid of it !
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 9 Jun 01:40
I most definetly identity with being Scottish far more than being British. Nothing wrong with being British though. It's a well worn cliche but the Second World War alone gives Britain something to be eternally proud of. Or does it?
What did I do to to thwart the Nazi's to warrant having a sense of pride? That's was my great grandparents and grandparents and to a lesser extent my parents generations that performed those feats. I don't expect the Germans and Italians (and Russians who teamed up with the Nazi's) to bear the sins of their fathers so why should we bask in the reflection of thier glories?
National pride is a strange beast that lurks in all of us and can be easily manipulated. You have to keep a tight hold of its leash.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: onlytakes
Date: Sun 10 Jun 00:04
Quote:
calpar, Fri 8 Jun 21:12
I have lived and worked abroad in various places, and nobody has ever asked me or referred to me as British, always either English, Scottish or occasionally Irish, I have never responded either as British, who does? Perhaps ex or serving military? Pretty much only time 'we' are referred to as British, and even then usually Brits, is by Irish Republicans, or our own services
Even passport control in and out doesnt have British, its UK, so, in summary fk British, noone except military are interested, a throwback to a bygone era of colonialism, get rid of it !
Pretty much this.
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Sun 10 Jun 06:51
But not Welsh...got something against Taffys? Leek allergic?
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Topic Originator: calpar
Date: Sun 10 Jun 10:01
Towk give up banging that 2nd ww drum
How many other millions have died since? Glorified?
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Sun 10 Jun 11:12
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Sat 9 Jun 01:40
(and Russians who teamed up with the Nazi's)
WTAF? Russia paid a much higher price in defeating the Nazis than all other deaths in WWII combined.
Watch this to see just how high a price they paid. https://youtu.be/DwKPFT-RioU.
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Sun 10 Jun 12:34
The Russians were in a pact with the Nazis initially, they only became allies of ours when they were stabbed in the back.
America only joined in when they were attacked by Japan. They never declared war on Germany either. Was the other way round.
Maybe Britain wasn’t the biggest but we were fighting the Nazis longer than either of them.
Btw how many millions of of Russian deaths was Stalin responsible for..political extermination, ethnic cleansing, famine, gulags etc. More than the war?.
Post Edited (Sun 10 Jun 12:41)
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Sun 10 Jun 13:13
Quote:
Mario, Sun 10 Jun 12:34
The Russians were in a pact with the Nazis initially, they only became allies of ours when they were stabbed in the back.
America only joined in when they were attacked by Japan. They never declared war on Germany either. Was the other way round.
Maybe Britain wasn’t the biggest but we were fighting the Nazis longer than either of them.
Btw how many millions of of Russian deaths was Stalin responsible for..political extermination, ethnic cleansing, famine, gulags etc. More than the war?.
Yes Stalin was evil. That is a bit of whatabootery and not relevant.
Russia certainly were in a neutrality pact with Nazi Germany (The Molotov Rippentrop pact) but TOWK has made out that the Russians helped the Nazis by "teaming up with them". This is not the case at all.
Chamberlain signed the Munich agreement does that mean Britain were also guilty of teaming up with the Nazis?
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Topic Originator: calpar
Date: Sun 10 Jun 13:14
And how many millions gave died since, globally, through the demand of oil, or ore, in the name of your precious govt amongst others ?
Not in my name
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Sun 10 Jun 14:04
Quote:
calpar, Sun 10 Jun 13:14
And how many millions gave died since, globally, through the demand of oil, or ore, in the name of your precious govt amongst others ?
Not in my name
Not in my name either but having spent 22 years in the RAF I am fully aware I have contributed to some of those deaths. 😢😢😢
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Sun 10 Jun 14:57
I was in MOD logistics, so me and everyone who worked for a contract supplier of baked beans, nuts and bolts, toilet roll to name but three out of hundreds of thousands of line items for the services are also in the not in my name frame.
Is this a sort of Notme2?
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 10 Jun 16:02
SIF, Russia teamed up with the Nazi's to invade Poland and carved it up between them. That was what the Molotov/Ribbentrop pact was all about. The Russians then frog marched thousands of Polish intellectuals into the Katyn Forest and murdered them.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Angus_W
Date: Sun 10 Jun 16:23
Being a member of the human race is far more important than any nationality.
Plenty of villains in WW2 and they weren't all on the Axis side.
“.........it ain’t over till the Pars score!”
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Sun 10 Jun 20:31
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Sun 10 Jun 16:02
SIF, Russia teamed up with the Nazi's to invade Poland and carved it up between them. That was what the Molotov/Ribbentrop pact was all about. The Russians then frog marched thousands of Polish intellectuals into the Katyn Forest and murdered them.
Russia tried at the same time as the Molotov/Ribbentrop pact to form an alliance with Western Europe against the Nazis. The failure of this was entirely down to the Western Europeans.
When this failed and the neutrality pact happened yes they divided up Poland but it was still not "working with the Nazis".
The brutality shown to the Poles was not to support the Nazis but to enforce communism.
Russia's reasoning on taking part of Poland was to put a buffer between the Nazis and Russia. It was NOT in support or working with the Nazis.
For sure what they did was abhorrent but was to further their own ends and not support of fascism.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 10 Jun 21:43
Stalin thought that by ensuring that Germany and the western democracies went to war that the Soviet position would be strengthened. A war of attrition between the Nazi's and France/Britain would only further the communist cause (which of course Stalin didn't really care about). What Stalin didn't know, what he couldn't have known, was how effective the German blitzkrieg would be and how quickly France would fall.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: onlytakes
Date: Mon 11 Jun 08:45
Did Britishness exist before WW2. Anytime it comes up there's always some nonsense about spirit of the blitz and stiff upper lip, which really relates to London than anywhere else in the UK.
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Mon 11 Jun 15:24
And Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool, Brighton, Bristol, Coventry
Nottingham, Leicester Newcastle-Upon-Tyne Kingston (Hull) Leeds Bradford
Doncaster Derby Carlisle Winchester Portsmouth Southampton Plymouth Weymouth Exeter Torquay
Milton Keynes Worcester Swansea Cardiff Glasgow Guildford Maidstone Dover...
My sole remaining Aunt passed away couple of months ago. She lived
through the Plymouth Blitz, no stiff upper lip though..quivering probably, she was only nine at the time.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 11 Jun 16:32
'Who do you think you're kidding, Mr Hitler, if you think Old England's done?'
It seems even during the War England and Britain were indistinguishable to some.
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Topic Originator: MikeyLeonard
Date: Mon 11 Jun 18:31
Quote:
wee eck, Mon 11 Jun 16:32
'Who do you think you're kidding, Mr Hitler, if you think Old England's done?'
It seems even during the War England and Britain were indistinguishable to some.
Still prevalent today Wee Eck, judging by the interviewees in some of the WW2 documentaries I've watched recently.
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Topic Originator: onlytakes
Date: Mon 11 Jun 18:46
Quote:
Mario, Mon 11 Jun 15:24
And Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool, Brighton, Bristol, Coventry
Nottingham, Leicester Newcastle-Upon-Tyne Kingston (Hull) Leeds Bradford
Doncaster Derby Carlisle Winchester Portsmouth Southampton Plymouth Weymouth Exeter Torquay
Milton Keynes Worcester Swansea Cardiff Glasgow Guildford Maidstone Dover...
My sole remaining Aunt passed away couple of months ago. She lived
through the Plymouth Blitz, no stiff upper lip though..quivering probably, she was only nine at the time.
Was meaning the stiff upper lip. Certainly not an attribute of Leeds or Glasgow 😂
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Mon 11 Jun 23:54
When it comes to WW2, there are a few events that could have very easily have swung Britain to being on the Nazi side, so some folk need to stop kidding around - there was a largely accepted attitude that Fascism was more acceptable than Communism and the Nazi sympathies reached as far as the Royal family. There were many who supported Halifax as the successor to Chamberlain, who was prepared to make a peace deal with the Germans. Let's not pretend otherwise.
Personally I've always enjoyed a bit of history: My Grandmother was an air raid warden in Paisley and lived through the Clydebank Blitz. Her Older brother survived Dunkirk in the RMC and went across North Africa with the Desert Rats and Up through Italy. Her younger brother was in the Merchant Navy for the war. My Grandfather was a Spitfire pilot from late 1940 having been denied active service in 39 due to his engineering job. At 26, I think its quite unusual to have such a background in terms of immediate family and I feel quite privileged on that point. Generally, my family is quite monarchist and consider themselves British but very few have lived in countries other than the UK. Those who have tend to call themselves Scottish and are far more open to the idea of Independence and Republicanism - something I always find interesting when you think about how obsessed some people are with hierarchy and "experience".
Britain is an island. Multiple Nationalities can exist on an Island, regardless of what some might try and tell you - It is up to individuals how they feel. I would argue that Scots are far more internationalist in their outlook and more similar to the likes of Danes and Swedes than they are to the English having worked in all of these countries and with all four nationalities. There is generally a conflation between British and English in many countries but I would say that Scots are far more respected in my experience - generally regarded as more open and friendly towards other nationalities whereas the English are more regarded as being egotistical and annoying.
Although, if Anas Sarwar is to be believed all Scots are Rampant Islamophobes and racists! ;)
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Tue 12 Jun 08:16
Of course there were pacifists, those who oppose war in any circumstances. Also those who just did not want get involved because the slaughter of WW1 was still a painful memory, and the prospect of defeat was too awful to contemplate.
We would not have been immune from willing collaborators either should the worst have happened.
However a Fascist fringe, which ordinary Londoners took on in street battles, and a few Hitler admirers in high society, were never going to make Britain allies of Nazism. These characters were sidelined, Mosely interned, and the Duke of Windsor exiled to Bermuda..nuisance out of the way, sort of like Napoleon only a bit more luxurious...
I don’t like generalisation of attitudes, outlook etc by way of nationality. Nobody has ever said to me that my Fife accent was more music to their ears than anyone else’s.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Tue 12 Jun 11:26
"America only joined in when they were attacked by Japan. They never declared war on Germany either. Was the other way round."
The USA did just about everything it could to aid Britain short of declaring war.
USN warships escorted some east bound convoys and in a couple of instances were attacked by U-boats.
The USS Kearney, and especially USS Rueben James, sunk with 115 sailors lost.
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Tue 12 Jun 11:59
None of which contradicts what I said.
Churchill was desperate for US involvement, he knew that their enormous industrial capacity and military potential made victory inevitable.
Roosevelt became increasingly sympathetic, but much of the great American public were reluctant or hostile. The Axis powers took the decision out of his hands, but the US Navy were attempting to provoke things as you imply, and sooner or later that would have brought America in anyway.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Tue 12 Jun 16:05
"None of which contradicts what I said."
Saying "America only joined in when they were attacked by Japan" is clearly untrue.
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Topic Originator: Angus_W
Date: Tue 12 Jun 17:00
America/Roosevelt had stretched congress as far as he could go pre Pearl Harbour. There was no appetite in the US for intervening in a European war.
Don't forget the US had a large Germanic/Italian migrant population that wanted no participation.
The craziest move of all was Hitler declaring war on the US on the 11th Dec '41.
If that had not happened the US would have thrown everything at Japan and ignored the European theatre. .
“.........it ain’t over till the Pars score!”
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Tue 12 Jun 18:18
As it was America poured 75% of their war effort into the European theater.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Tue 12 Jun 18:19
As it was America poured 75% of their war effort into the European theater.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Sat 16 Jun 05:30
I'm in Gdansk using it as a base for going to the Croatia/Nigeria game and we got speaking to a group of Croatians last night and they were all saying they preferred Scotland over England.
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Sat 16 Jun 10:29
Strange that millions of citizens from all parts of the World and the EU in particular choose to live in England.
Scotland is parochial Whiteyland in comparison.
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Topic Originator: onlytakes
Date: Sat 16 Jun 13:09
Very little difference between Scotland and any other part of the UK in terms of whiteness. It's only been in the last 15 years England has seen a significant change. This probably explains the rise in Little Englander attitude.
I'd say I expect many nations dislike the Brits but still come here in their droves. It's a shame so few venture outside London and Edinburgh. I work with someone who rents a room in his flat out and he tells me they all come with near identical itineries. Edinburgh - Stirling - Inverness (Loch Ness). On occasion they stick in Glasgow, Dunfermline (especially if from Pittsburgh) and Perth.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Sat 16 Jun 13:12
Quote:
onlytakes, Sat 16 Jun 13:09
Very little difference between Scotland and any other part of the UK in terms of whiteness. It's only been in the last 15 years England has seen a significant change. This probably explains the rise in Little Englander attitude.
I'd say I expect many nations dislike the Brits but still come here in their droves. It's a shame so few venture outside London and Edinburgh. I work with someone who rents a room in his flat out and he tells me they all come with near identical itineries. Edinburgh - Stirling - Inverness (Loch Ness). On occasion they stick in Glasgow, Dunfermline (especially if from Pittsburgh) and Perth.
Was there not some stats that said the largest portion of EU nationals were actually in Aberdeen?
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Sat 16 Jun 13:17
The council area with the highest proportion of residents who are non-British nationals was Aberdeen City, with 21 per cent of residents holding non-British nationality.
From a recent scotsman report. So they do venture away from Edinburgh.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 16 Jun 13:29
''Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Sat 16 Jun 10:29
Strange that millions of citizens from all parts of the World and the EU in particular choose to live in England.
Scotland is parochial Whiteyland in comparison.''
What conclusion are we supposed to draw from that? I would have thought thousands of Scots would take exception to the description of Scotland as 'Whiteyland'. I presume it's meant to be a criticism of the Scottish Government, and the SNP in particular, as all his posts are. That seems to ignore the fact that immigration is not a devolved issue though.
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Sat 16 Jun 13:37
There is no cap on EU immigration, they can go anywhere in the UK.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 16 Jun 13:52
Why the description of Scotland as 'Whiteyland' (a disgusting expression by the way)? Are you saying black immigrants aren't coming here? If so, why not?
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Topic Originator: onlytakes
Date: Sat 16 Jun 13:53
I was meaning tourists rather than migrants. ☺️
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 16 Jun 13:59
I don't think Mario was talking about tourists. I was surprised the thread took that turn.
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Topic Originator: onlytakes
Date: Sat 16 Jun 14:24
Think I've confused matters by covering Mario's bizarre whiteyland comment with another comment earlier in the thread about what other nations think of Brits. Was pointing out it doesn't stop them coming here (as tourists).
I regularly get annoyed with tourists (loud American's, slow moving Chinese, queue jumping Italians...) but I'm smart enough to know that an entire nation isn't like this and understand I'm probably a pain in the ass when visiting their countries. It's all down to different cultures.
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Sat 16 Jun 16:02
Several points here.
Identity is multi-layered. People are many things, and it seems bizarre to obsess so much about an accident of birth.
Also, nationality is increasing optional, and complex. You can be born in one country, from parents from a 2nd and perhaps 3rd country, grow up in a fourth and choose to live and work in a fifth. What nationality does that make you? And does it matter?
Things like “national characteristics” are largely illusory; this is particularly so in a multi-cultural and pan-national entity like the UK. Some are exaggerated for the tourist industry, or for other reasons.
Some nations seem “unpopular”. Generally these seem to be the bigger nations, and in contrast, their smaller neighbours are seen as more sympathetic; I’m not sure what should cause this prejudice. Aren’t there perfectly nice Americans, or Germans, or Russians, or English, or Spaniards?
Yes, people conflate England with Britain or the UK, and I’ve never particularly understood that, but people have also conflated Holland with the Netherlands, Russia with the Soviet Union and the USA with America and I’ve never really understood that either.
As for immigration – I’ve said this several times before, but it is clear that different parts of the UK have different immigration needs. The concern must be that we invite a million or so “foreigners” in, and then they do what people have done for centuries – move to the cities, and move south. Perhaps the answer is to entice a million or so English north with tax incentives. Is that what the Growth Commission was proposing?
An interesting point about islands. Yes, it is possible for them to be split (e.g. Lewis and Harris), but it’s relatively rare.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 16 Jun 16:18
You seem to be agreeing with the Scottish Government on immigration, MCT. Isn't it their contention that different parts of the UK have different immigration needs?
Is there any evidence of immigrants coming to Scotland and then moving south? I suppose it happens but not on a grand scale I'd imagine, so why would it happen with new immigrants? I don't think English people need any tax incentives to move to Scotland. Aren't there about half a million of them here already?
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Sat 16 Jun 16:44
I said Scotland in comparison with England is less diverse on the whole, although some counties down there make Fife look like an exotic ethnic melting pot...
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 16 Jun 16:49
I'm sure you'll have a theory as to why that is the case.
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Sat 16 Jun 17:07
On the subject of tourism, recent train journey from KingsX to Waverley saw us sitting opposite a young couple.
So excited, first trip up here ...“Are there markets? Can we buy kilts?”
Hope they enjoyed themselves, once they got over their surprise at not having embarked in a retail desert..
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Sat 16 Jun 17:08
A theory on which bit?
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Sat 16 Jun 17:48
Wee eck
I think it is relatively common for different parts of the country to have different needs.
The question is always how different (local) solutions can meet those needs, and the cost elsewhere of implementing a local solution.
For example, cutting Corporation Tax in a particular area may encourage companies to relocate business there, but there maybe a cost to the area where that business is currently located (and other areas as well).
(The SNP’s answer to most questions seems to be Independence, regardless of any knock-on effects).
I think with immigration, there is plenty of evidence (globally) of migration from rural areas to urban. I think there is also evidence of higher immigration to England than to Scotland (as evidenced by population growth). One might ask why that is.
Currently it is relatively easy to migrate to England (and, indeed Scotland) from the EU and from Commonwealth countries. Anecdotally this influenced the Brexit vote.
If an obstacle is placed in the way, the question is to what extend people will seek to overcome that obstacle – in other words, if people want to migrate to England (and not Scotland) will they use Scotland as a stepping stone?
As for tax incentives – is that not what the Growth Commission was proposing? (As opposed to current tax disincentives).
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 17 Jun 10:28
Current UK government policy on immigration doesn't recognise local needs. The main purpose is to discourage immigration which disadvantages areas like Scotland which need immigrants. I would imagine one of the main reasons most immigrants favour England over Scotland is that it is more accessible from their countries of origin in terms of distance and cost. There will also be the snowball effect of immigrants who are already settled in a certain part of the country attracting family and friends who are thinking of coming here.
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