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Topic Originator: Number57
Date: Mon 30 Jul 20:19
This is becoming a huge story nationally and locally.
Whilst it is true that it is possible to be anti-Israeli and not anti-Semitic it is equally true that it is possible to be both. Only the individuals concerned can know that for sure.
Labour has and continues to handle this badly.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Tue 31 Jul 06:36
It's completely fabricated.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Tue 31 Jul 07:16
Why is this such a complicated issue?
What exactly makes one an anti semite?
I'm not defending Labour but I'm struggling to find a quote from an MP that is blatantly anti Jewish
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: Sligo Mick
Date: Tue 31 Jul 13:57
What they mean is don't dare be critical of the rogue state in the Middle East.....that's the one which has created the largest Concentration Camp since WW2
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Topic Originator: Number57
Date: Wed 1 Aug 17:20
Really rasta?
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Wed 1 Aug 17:59
Quote:
renegade master, Wed 1 Aug 17:25
Is the currently suspended Cowdenbeath Labour councillor Mary Lockhart not the partner of Peter who was a great contributor to the forum and a regular at matches?
Seems those comments were very much anti semitic.
Mary is Peter's sister. She's very outspoken and opinionated but in her defence, it wouldn't be the first time the press over dramatise what she said.
Don't know enough about this one as she blocked me on facebook lol.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 1 Aug 18:31
The anti-semitism smear is surely a tactic to discredit Jeremy Corbyn, a man who understandably makes the Establishment uneasy.
Casting up Corbyn's meetings with IRA leaders 30 years ago cuts little ice with the UK public these days since Thatcher and Blair later did likewise. His links to Hamas have also proved ineffective in convincing the public he is a lover of terrorists, since the plight of Palestiinians is fairly well accepted across the board. Hence the broader smear of anti-semitim which is designed to show that Corbyn has attracted loads of fanatics into his Labour Party and is therefore unfit to govern in an upcoming election.
Proving you are not anti-semitic is rather like proving you are not racist or bigoted. First of all it is notoriously difficlt to prove a negative, and secondly your accusers can alter the definition of your 'crime' as it suits.
The embargo on comparing Israel to Nazi Germany(which I believe is a sticking point in the Labour Party accepting the full text of the International Holocaust Commission) is an attack on free speech. It is perfectly valid to compare different regimes in political debate, in fact a duty when parallels are placed in our view. Today an American chum of Trump has laid a brick in a prospective settlement inside an occupied territory which I understand is held by Israel in defiance of UN resolutions. If making a comparison between this action and the lebensraum policy of Nazi Germany is equivalent to anti-semitism then I will have to plead guilty as charged, but in the process wonder if the term has much meaning left.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Wed 1 Aug 18:36
That's a really good post mate
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Wed 1 Aug 21:25
We discussed this issue 3 or 4 months ago, and as far as I can see little has changed, which is in itself an indictment of Corbyn’s leadership.
I think I argued that there has been some inevitability about this, ever since the election of Corbyn.
He was a permanent rebel with no end of causes, but had never held high office. Some will commend him for being true to his principles, others will condemn him for being dogmatic rather than pragmatic, and for offering support to people who do not have Britain’s best interests at heart (which is problematic if you are seeking to be PM).
He doesn’t command the respect or the support of his elected representatives, which makes it difficult to lead his parliamentary party. Instead he is beholden to his power base, which is the socialist stream intolerant of much of what “New Labour” stood for. (There are obvious similarities with Militant in the 80s.) If you allow intolerance to flourish, it will seek more victims, which is what appears to be happening now.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Thu 2 Aug 00:18
As the last two posts seem to confirm, the anti-semitism claim is less about defending the rights of Jewish people but more about attacking the leader of the opposition.
The tactic is to put Corbyn in a no win situation. If he says the claims of anti-semitism within the Labour Party are a gross exaggeration and ignores the issue, then he is easily caricatured as a weak, ineffective leader condoning prejudice.
Alternatively, if he tries to appease his critics then he is admitting that there is indeed a serious problem that must be dealt with, which is the road he has gone down. Unfortunately, no matter how many Labour Party activists he suspends or bans, it will never be enough for those who want to see him destroyed. The billionaire class wants to sit back and savour Corbyn attacking his power base, the one which has made it sleep uneasily these past two years.
Corbyn is an experienced politician and will have thought fully about his response, but the suspicion remains that essentially he is more a campaigner than an astute politician. For me he has been too easily manouvred on to the back foot when he could have attacked his critics over Israel's intransigence over UN resolutions, a far more concrete issue than anti-semitism.
Maybe this indicates Corbyn would not be a good PM but then I can't think of a decent one since Harold Wilson. Theresa May is so clearly not up to the job (albeit she has been dealt a very difficult hand with a country divided over Europe) that she is now being pitied. Imagine the tabloid press treatment of Corbyn had he allowed the country to become paralysed over brexit, rumours of food shortages in the offing with perhaps withdrawal limits at cashlines, the slump in the pound, slights from the USA president and random acid attacks becoming a feature of city life. Broken Britain would not cover it.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Thu 2 Aug 01:00
<<Mary is Peter's sister. She's very outspoken and opinionated but in her defence, it wouldn't be the first time the press over dramatise what she said.>>
Whatever happened to Peter? I know he went into local politics and occasionally got into strife on here, but he was a valued contributor to dotnet. Where is he now? Is he okay?
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Thu 2 Aug 06:55
Quote:
Number57, Wed 1 Aug 17:20
Really rasta?
Yes really....anti Semitism used to be people that dislike Jews...now It's people news don't like.
Hence the scramble to outlaw criticism of murderous Isreal.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Thu 2 Aug 09:42
Thanks RM. I wasn't aware of any of that. But I am very pleased to hear that things are improving and would certainly welcome Patricia back here.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 2 Aug 10:02
Food shortages and cash withdrawal limits? I don't think even the most pro European remainer believes any of that guff.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Thu 2 Aug 10:03
Yes. Obviously I knew about the (then Peter's) problems and the very dark thoughts he suffered then. I didn't think it was my place to say what went on here or the huge transformation to Patricia and the enormous difference it has made but now it's out there she has got an incredible amount of support and good wishes from family and friends.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: Opelfruitloops
Date: Mon 6 Aug 22:25
Mary's post as far as I know was just anti Israel. But that's enough now. I've been attacked as anti Semitic when i critisised the shooting of Palistinian protesters. Anyway I've no idea what she put. I'm blocked from her page as well.
Be true to who you are
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Wed 8 Aug 10:11
As the last two posts seem to confirm, the anti-semitism claim is less about defending the rights of Jewish people but more about attacking the leader of the opposition.
I’m not sure I was saying that. I was making 3 points.
1. Intolerance is increasing, and this tends to breed further intolerance.
2. In particular there is an intolerant strand within the Labour party that is stoking anti-semitism, which, coupled with a lack of critical self-awareness, is causing the current issues (which are very real)
3. Corbyn, due to his history and weakness of leadership, was always going to have problems on this issue sooner or later.
I wasn't aware of any of that. But I am very pleased to hear that things are improving and would certainly welcome Patricia back here
Indeed.
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Topic Originator: Opelfruitloops
Date: Wed 8 Aug 13:12
Quote:
McCaig`s Tower, Wed 8 Aug 10:11
I wasn't aware of any of that. But I am very pleased to hear that things are improving and would certainly welcome Patricia back here
Indeed.
Hello
Be true to who you are
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Wed 8 Aug 13:19
Quote:
Opelfruitloops, Wed 8 Aug 13:12
Quote:
McCaig`s Tower, Wed 8 Aug 10:11
I wasn't aware of any of that. But I am very pleased to hear that things are improving and would certainly welcome Patricia back here
Indeed.
Hello
Wellcome back looking forward to your input .
Just asking have you switched to pro independence then?
Post Edited (Wed 08 Aug 13:21)
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Topic Originator: Opelfruitloops
Date: Wed 8 Aug 14:40
Quote:
Wellcome back looking forward to your input .
Just asking have you switched to pro independence then?
Yes. For a variety of reasons. I was never strongly no but we're now being dragged into chaos
Be true to who you are
Post Edited (Wed 08 Aug 14:41)
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Topic Originator: calpar
Date: Fri 10 Aug 01:44
This thread needs a title change
I may have said this on another thread, but, semite, semetic, encompasses historically? (Who decides?) people who speak a common semite language, which may include both jewish and arabic peoples and also of other religion/race
So, where is the labour anti-semitism,?
apart from the medias biased tory propoganda
And more to the point, what about the blatant bigotted ?racist?atseholest ?comments from a senior tory fkwit?
Or perhaps thats how little engerlund feel, eh ?
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Topic Originator: Secret Garden
Date: Fri 10 Aug 20:59
Anyone seen Fundilymundily’s statement today about anti semitism?
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