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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sun 24 Mar 15:44
With apologies to the Clash. ☺
As I see it, we have 3 options in relation to the Brexit fiasco :-
1. Leave with a deal
2. Leave without a deal
3. Forget the whole thing and revoke Article 50.
Eeeny, meeny, miny, mo......
Are the bookies offering odds? Not that they were much use in June 2016. You could have got 8/1 against the Leave vote winning, the day before the Referendum.
ETA. If you had a free £100 bet, which option(s) would you lump it on?
Not your average Sunday League player.
Post Edited (Mon 25 Mar 06:07)
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Topic Originator: Angus_W
Date: Sun 24 Mar 16:24
If we go, there will be trouble.......
And if we stay it will be double.....
Ay caramba! Esta indecisión me molesta!
“.........it ain’t over till the Pars score!”
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Sun 24 Mar 17:34
Leave with the deal on the table and move on.
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Sun 24 Mar 18:47
^^^^ not perfect but better than the alternatives which would create even more uncertainty and a loss of faith in democracy.
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Topic Originator: Parsweep
Date: Mon 25 Mar 07:29
We should leave .
Where does it leave democracy if we don't ?
Would be surprised if we don't see a massive surge in a new ukip style party if we don't .
If you think the country is divided now , just wait for the ramifications if the referendum result is ignored .
Bobvo
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 25 Mar 08:38
Quote:
Parsweep, Mon 25 Mar 07:29
We should leave .
Where does it leave democracy if we don't ?
Would be surprised if we don't see a massive surge in a new ukip style party if we don't .
If you think the country is divided now , just wait for the ramifications if the referendum result is ignored .
It would indeed make a mockery of democracy, but should that have a higher priority than serving the nation's best interests?
Given that the whole process was flawed from the outset and a large swathe of the electorate were duped by misleading information from a few zealots in UKIP and the Tory party, it could be argued that an exception should be made as voters did not really fully understand the ins and outs of what they were voting for.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Mon 25 Mar 08:49
Who gets to decide what action best serves the nations interests?
If there was to be a Scottish independence vote again and this time the independence option won, well that certainly wouldn't serve the UK national interest, so by that logic the result of the referendum shouldn't be honoured.
Ignoring election results because you don't like the result is a slippery path.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Parsweep
Date: Mon 25 Mar 09:13
GG I could claim that many of the people who signed that petition have been duped by the project fear tactics being soouted by remainer mp's who think they know better than their electorate .
Bobvo
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Mon 25 Mar 09:46
Do you think that any leave voters were duped by the 360 million a week extra for the NHS?
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Mon 25 Mar 10:04
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Mon 25 Mar 09:46
Do you think that any leave voters were duped by the 360 million a week extra for the NHS?
Most certainly...been well documented.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 25 Mar 11:21
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Mon 25 Mar 08:49
Who gets to decide what action best serves the nations interests?
If there was to be a Scottish independence vote again and this time the independence option won, well that certainly wouldn't serve the UK national interest, so by that logic the result of the referendum shouldn't be honoured.
Ignoring election results because you don't like the result is a slippery path.
I would have thought that our MPs (God help us) were best placed to decide whether the UK would be best served in or out of the EU, TOWK, so it would have been better not to have put it to a largely ignorant electorate, in my humble one.
I couldn't agree more with your last sentence, but there must be a chance of it happening now, since Parliament doesn't fancy either May's deal or a no deal Brexit.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 25 Mar 11:25
Quote:
Parsweep, Mon 25 Mar 09:13
GG I could claim that many of the people who signed that petition have been duped by the project fear tactics being soouted by remainer mp's who think they know better than their electorate .
I wouldn't argue with that, Parsweep, but they obviously didn't dupe as many as Boris and Farage did. 😉
Tbh, nobody knows how this will pan out, but the man who started this whole fiasco, just walked away right after it. He's alright though, cosv his dad has a bit of money invested in the Cayman islands...... allegedly.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 25 Mar 11:28
Wasn't the referendum meant to be 'advisory' rather than mandatory?
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Mon 25 Mar 11:32
lol,Hammond already saying a second referendum "deserves to be considered"
You can't make this nonsense up.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 25 Mar 11:45
''Wasn't the referendum meant to be 'advisory' rather than mandatory?''
I believe that is the case, eck, which begs the question, why go to the expense of holding a referendum, if you can ignore the result if you don't like it?
''lol,Hammond already saying a second referendum "deserves to be considered"
You can't make this nonsense up.''
Are Yanks allowed an opinion on this matter? ;-)
Haven't you got enough problems of your own with a nugget for President, richie?
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Mon 25 Mar 12:12
Yep,Trump has done a terrible job.
That will be most opinions on Liverpool and Man u knackered as well;)
Post Edited (Mon 25 Mar 12:13)
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Mon 25 Mar 12:29
The people demanding we HAVE to leave or its an a front to democracy are just as raving mental as those wanting us to flat out ignore the result and rescind A50 immediately. That entire referendum was a lie, nobody knew what they were actually voting for and I seriously don't know how many times it needs to be said, but the vote was ADVISORY.
We've had over 2 years of this nonsense from the Tory party and the pathetic excuse for Labour. Get a 2nd referendum sorted or this country is going to rip itself into pieces.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Mon 25 Mar 12:46
"Nobody knew what they were voting for" yep,34 million folk collectively had no clue what was going on.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Mon 25 Mar 15:10
Quote:
richie5401, Mon 25 Mar 12:46
"Nobody knew what they were voting for" yep,34 million folk collectively had no clue what was going on.
A large proportion did not know. Did they understand the NI situation? Did they realise that the NHS would not get £360m? Some of us knew but many many people did not and were Iied to by both sides.
So yes 34m knew part of what might happen but very very few of them knew what was really going to happen because the campaigns were run on lies and soundbites.
Post Edited (Mon 25 Mar 15:11)
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Topic Originator: Parsweep
Date: Mon 25 Mar 16:16
I know what I voted for . Leave , to get away from the sinking ship that the EU is becoming . Last I heard Italy were in recession and Germany and France not performing to well either .
As FDR once famously said .
We have nothing to fear but fear itself .
Sick of listening to everyone talking us down and telling me I didn't know what I was doing .
Btw , I personally know of quite a few remain voters who would now vote to leave .
Bobvo
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Mon 25 Mar 17:04
The EU is not a sinking ship either economically or politically.
Growth is slowing but it's not sinking.
The UKs growth however is predicted to reduce to that of Italys.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Mon 25 Mar 17:08
Btw , I personally know of quite a few remain voters who would now vote to leave .
That's nice. I know a lot of people who never bothered to vote who would vote remain.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Mon 25 Mar 18:48
I'm not really much into another vote before we leave as it would cause a lot of deep division even worse than now.
Perhaps best to let Brexit happen, see what the damage is over the next couple of years and if it turns out as bad as predicted then a future government could put it in their manifesto to have another vote to rejoin.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 25 Mar 18:58
To get back to the OP, it's anyone's guess at the moment. May keeps banging her head against a brick wall. When will she finally twig that the vast majority of MPs have no intention of supporting it? So Option 1 appears to be dead in the water.
Most MPs are also opposed to leaving without a deal, so where does that leave us?
We might well leave at some point, but I can't see it being any time soon.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Mon 25 Mar 20:48
The British public were conned by the referendum in the early 90’s by our politicians when the EEC became the EU.
No one spelt out we were on a trajectory to be part of a Superstate at the loss of
national democracy.
Successive European Treaties such as Lisbon have continued to erode the independence of nation states.
We have been betrayed by politicians like Major, Blair, Brown ( who didn’t show up in Lisbon at the appointed time) and Cameron.
Those who want to stay in the EU need to consider that the EU is on a path as outlined in the Five Presidents Report to take even more power to Brussels: Fiscal, Financial and Political.
Any problem with Brussels interference today will only get worse in years to come.
The sooner we get back to the original Common Market model which was about trade the better.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Mon 25 Mar 22:10
I'm not sure what you mean,MS...IF the UK leave they won't be sending barrowloads of money to the EU.We can argue about the amount,but the underlying point remains.Britain voted to make it's own decisions.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Mon 25 Mar 22:29
Brussels are far more capable of running us than Westminster.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Mon 25 Mar 22:35
It would be nice though to at least have a chance to fail/succeed.
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Mon 25 Mar 22:46
“Brussels are far more capable of running us than Westminster.”
Is that why unemployment across the Eurozone is on average over twice the U.K? Youth unemployment in Spain, Greece, Italy between 20-40%?
Italy currently in recession. Germany and France teetering on it.
Greece remains a basket case.
Poland , Hungary and others battling for the rights of their own judiciary over Brussels.
Schengen rules abandoned because they don’t work for member states.
Countries that joined the EU recently and signed up to join the Euro have so far failed to do so because they can see the problems caused by a “ one size fits all “ currency.
If this is “Brussels” then the sooner we are out the better.
Post Edited (Mon 25 Mar 22:58)
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Mon 25 Mar 22:56
Yep,the German 10 year is coming on a bundle.
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Tue 26 Mar 03:44
Parbucks, you do realise what the UK qualifies as 'employment' don't you? Its actually something I couldn't quite believe at the time, but apparently, if you work 1 hour per fortnight, you qualify as employed...same with 0 hour contracts etc...
UK unemployment is scarily higher than the government likes to let on.
Frankly the thought of being purely run by Westminster without the human rights protections of the EU actually scares me. Can't wait for that pihs-tier American meat, hilariously high import tax for any foreign goods I want to order etc...
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Tue 26 Mar 07:51
Quote:
richie5401, Mon 25 Mar 22:10
I'm not sure what you mean,MS...IF the UK leave they won't be sending barrowloads of money to the EU.We can argue about the amount,but the underlying point remains.Britain voted to make it's own decisions.
Rural areas in Scotland, Wales and England will also not get back millions of pounds in EU grants. Or farmers will not get the subsidies that keep a lot of them afloat. Yes we paid into the EU but we got a lot of benefits back. If you were to drive around Wales or Northern Scotland you will pass many signs indicating that projects were EU funded.
I am not convinced that this money will now be used in a similar way by the UK government. I suppose we will just have to wait and see.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 26 Mar 11:32
Is last night's vote likely to improve our chances of leaving with a deal?
According to the BBC's Laura Kuenssberg, Theresa May will continue to plough a lonely furrow, trying to sell MPs a deal they've already rejected twice, while Parliament will try to come up with their own version. This could arguably double our chances of agreeing a deal with the EU, or then again, maybe not.
It so completely bizarre.....
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Tue 26 Mar 17:32
Quote:
moviescot, Tue 26 Mar 07:51
Quote:
richie5401, Mon 25 Mar 22:10
I'm not sure what you mean,MS...IF the UK leave they won't be sending barrowloads of money to the EU.We can argue about the amount,but the underlying point remains.Britain voted to make it's own decisions.
Rural areas in Scotland, Wales and England will also not get back millions of pounds in EU grants. Or farmers will not get the subsidies that keep a lot of them afloat. Yes we paid into the EU but we got a lot of benefits back. If you were to drive around Wales or Northern Scotland you will pass many signs indicating that projects were EU funded.
I am not convinced that this money will now be used in a similar way by the UK government. I suppose we will just have to wait and see.
Scottish Farmers were shafted by the UK Government who took the £190 million due to them and distributed it across the UK, meaning Scottish Farmers only got £30 million. I would imagine that sort of theft won't get any better when Westminster is in charge.
"EU Convergence Uplift payments of £190m were triggered because of the low rate paid to hill farmers in Scotland.
But the money was shared out by the Treasury across the UK farming sector"
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Tue 26 Mar 19:05
Quote:
red-star-par, Tue 26 Mar 17:32
Quote:
moviescot, Tue 26 Mar 07:51
Quote:
richie5401, Mon 25 Mar 22:10
I'm not sure what you mean,MS...IF the UK leave they won't be sending barrowloads of money to the EU.We can argue about the amount,but the underlying point remains.Britain voted to make it's own decisions.
Rural areas in Scotland, Wales and England will also not get back millions of pounds in EU grants. Or farmers will not get the subsidies that keep a lot of them afloat. Yes we paid into the EU but we got a lot of benefits back. If you were to drive around Wales or Northern Scotland you will pass many signs indicating that projects were EU funded.
I am not convinced that this money will now be used in a similar way by the UK government. I suppose we will just have to wait and see.
Scottish Farmers were shafted by the UK Government who took the £190 million due to them and distributed it across the UK, meaning Scottish Farmers only got £30 million. I would imagine that sort of theft won't get any better when Westminster is in charge.
"EU Convergence Uplift payments of £190m were triggered because of the low rate paid to hill farmers in Scotland.
But the money was shared out by the Treasury across the UK farming sector"
Yeah I heard about that. Westminster will indeed not improve they situation.
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Wed 27 Mar 01:41
Quote:
red-star-par, Tue 26 Mar 17:32
Quote:
moviescot, Tue 26 Mar 07:51
Quote:
richie5401, Mon 25 Mar 22:10
I'm not sure what you mean,MS...IF the UK leave they won't be sending barrowloads of money to the EU.We can argue about the amount,but the underlying point remains.Britain voted to make it's own decisions.
Rural areas in Scotland, Wales and England will also not get back millions of pounds in EU grants. Or farmers will not get the subsidies that keep a lot of them afloat. Yes we paid into the EU but we got a lot of benefits back. If you were to drive around Wales or Northern Scotland you will pass many signs indicating that projects were EU funded.
I am not convinced that this money will now be used in a similar way by the UK government. I suppose we will just have to wait and see.
Scottish Farmers were shafted by the UK Government who took the £190 million due to them and distributed it across the UK, meaning Scottish Farmers only got £30 million. I would imagine that sort of theft won't get any better when Westminster is in charge.
"EU Convergence Uplift payments of £190m were triggered because of the low rate paid to hill farmers in Scotland.
But the money was shared out by the Treasury across the UK farming sector"
What makes this worse is that the Scottish Farmers Union went to the EU to make the case that Scottish hill farmers should get this due to the higher cost of farming on hilly land. The UK government had refused to make the case on their behalf.
So when they were successful it was a great triumph.
Unfortunately it can not be paid directly to them by the EU and had to go through Westminster.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Wed 27 Mar 02:58
That is disgraceful. Scottish hill farmers/crofters have a tough life and struggle to make a quid at the best of times. It sticks in my craw that their money should be shared with the rapeseed farmers of Suffolk.
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Topic Originator: Mario
Date: Wed 27 Mar 09:39
The SNP govt IT system for CAP payment to farmers was a colossal car crash, they have deferred taking on benefit payments for three years despite screeching to have them devolved.
They said they could set up the entire government machinery for a new country in 18 months...Income Tax, VAT, Benefits, Pensions, Vehicle Duty and all the other systems of revenue and expenditure, not to mention Defence etc.
Aye right!
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 27 Mar 09:41
Some Tory MPs are now using the leadership of their party as a bargaining tool for their votes. The whole process just gets more and more disgusting. Such a serious issue should never have been a party political matter.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 27 Mar 11:18
''The SNP govt IT system for CAP payment to farmers was a colossal car crash, they have deferred taking on benefit payments for three years despite screeching to have them devolved.
They said they could set up the entire government machinery for a new country in 18 months...Income Tax, VAT, Benefits, Pensions, Vehicle Duty and all the other systems of revenue and expenditure, not to mention Defence etc.
Aye right!''
I'm not sure what all that's got to do with Brexit but if you want to cite another shambles what about the introduction of universal credit by the UK government?
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 27 Mar 14:46
Now, now boys, please stay on topic.
Will today's debates and indicative voting, bring us any nearer to an answer to my thread question?
Just when it seems this whole fiasco couldn't get any more farcical, it takes yet another twist.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 27 Mar 17:16
What happens after they tot up these indicative votes? Do the three top scorers go through to the next round?!!!
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Wed 27 Mar 17:45
Labour to abstain on the revoking of article 50 vote should there be a no deal shocker!
What is the point of Labour?
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: Parsweep
Date: Wed 27 Mar 20:14
Think we'll still go , but with a crap deal .
Wish we'd had someone like Bill Cash negotiating the deal .
Bobvo
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Wed 27 Mar 20:24
^^^^
Parsweep nails it!
Remainers took over the process and we have this bu@@ers muddle.
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