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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Tue 3 Sep 22:49
Johnson is finished.
He can’t now do Brexit come hell or high water, far less do or die. All that Dunkirk rubbish has disappeared from the right wing tabloids. There will be no crash-out.
He can’t do a deal with the EU who regard him as an idiot unable to command parliament, and now clearly cannot even command his own party. He has just lost a number of his party members this evening due to threats. There is no EU Brexit deal available under him.
If an election is called, and that is dubious since there are many want him to stew in his own juice, then he will be standing for election as a man who has just made it clear he was prepared to prorogue the very parliament he is standing for. There are thousands outside Westminster right now reminding us of that fact.
Back to journalism, I think, for which he has some ability. Over to you, CDF.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Tue 3 Sep 23:24
A surprisingly lucid summation from a Guardian columnist.
'Johnson chose the leave side in the 2016 referendum, thinking it would probably be beaten. He intended to earn kudos among Eurosceptic Tories, while evading responsibility for turning their romantic fantasy into reality. He flaunted his unreadiness to own the result, withdrawing from the subsequent Conservative leadership race on the day of his campaign launch. He served in Theresa May’s cabinet only for as long as he could be idle in a grand office. When the time came to commit to a workable Brexit model, he resigned.
His talent is as a narrator of political myths, casting himself as the hero. His greatest creation is the character called “Boris” who has recruited a devoted following in the Conservative party, much of Britain’s print media and a sizeable chunk of the electorate. It is a cycle of mutually reinforcing delusion.'
If Johnson is to win an election on Brexit he can only do it by splitting his party and uniting with Farage. Farage, a man who has never succeeded in being elected to Westminster is going to be his Dputy PM? I think the UK electorate can smell a rat when they see one. Especially since Johnson wants to close down parliament anyhow.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Tue 3 Sep 23:40
I think it will cause the split you reference but I'm not sure he will join with Farage but Farage has already said that if BoJo commits to No Deal Brexit they won't field any candidates against them so the Tories will carry the complete Brexit vote whereas Remain will be split between the SNP, Labour and the Lib Dems.
For that reason I think this statement you made: "I think the UK electorate can smell a rat when they see one" becomes moot for me as the battle lines on Brexit are now so entrenched that people will still vote for it. There's a worryingly large section of the population that are happy for Parliament to be circumvented as they view Brexit as a higher priority rather than proper parliamentary processes.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 4 Sep 00:12
Johnson is not really a Brexiteer though. Farage knows this. Johnson voted for BRINO at Theresa May's 3rd attempt. Anf if Johnson canvasses on a Crash-Out he will be lucky to secure 30% of the electorate.
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Wed 4 Sep 08:02
The idea that Johnson is finished is absolutely laughable. The fact Labour are - once again - backtracking (this time over an election) shows that they know that if one was held tomorrow then the Conservatives - free of the "rebels" - are actually likely to win a majority. Couple in a potential pact with the Brexit Party and it could be a very good outcome, depending on your point of view of course.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Wed 4 Sep 08:10
.
Wrong thread
Post Edited (Wed 04 Sep 08:12)
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Wed 4 Sep 09:30
The British public smell a rat?
Nonsense, far to stupid, racist and bigoted for that.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 4 Sep 14:33
Quote:
Captain Desmond Fancey, Wed 4 Sep 08:02
The idea that Johnson is finished is absolutely laughable. The fact Labour are - once again - backtracking (this time over an election) shows that they know that if one was held tomorrow then the Conservatives - free of the "rebels" - are actually likely to win a majority. Couple in a potential pact with the Brexit Party and it could be a very good outcome, depending on your point of view of course.
I get the impression that Johnson is a survivor. Not only that, like Trump, he's not scared to say the things that some voters want to hear. That's how they were both elected when common sense tells us they should be nowhere near their respective offices. Two absolute rockets.
Eta. I think you're right about an early election. If Labour don't think they can win just now, they'd be foolish to accept Johnson's challenge.
Not your average Sunday League player.
Post Edited (Wed 04 Sep 14:36)
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Wed 4 Sep 15:01
Johnson wants to call an election so that we default our way out of the EU during the campaign without Parliament being able to prevent it.
Probably involving some slight of hand stuff involving the election date.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 4 Sep 16:42
Boris Johnson has done something none of the opposition parties - either on their own or together - have been able to accomplish.......
He's smashed the Tory party.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 4 Sep 16:50
The people love Bojo. All these little fibs he tells are just bants. He's great. He's flicking the Vs at the EU and the stupid among us think that's great. They don't care about the economy because they're either ready to pop their clogs or haven't got jobs because some Johnny foreigner took it from them. Yes, I'm generalising, but consider for a moment that one of the most popular TV programmes in the UK consists of a bunch of thick singletons sitting around on sun loungers, going on dates and walking around all day carrying water bottles.
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Wed 4 Sep 17:06
What a typically patronising post from somebody who clearly voted to stay.
Lets just assume that 17.4 million people are just thick, or too old.
Little wonder there's such anger.
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Wed 4 Sep 17:22
Tbf, having worked in customer services with the British public for over 4 years now, there's a damned sight more than 17.4M thick people in this country (myself included).
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 4 Sep 17:33
Hate to break this to you, CDF, but the data shows that it was the elderly and less educated who voted for brexit. So although I'm posting a generalisation, it's not far off the mark.
Entertain us, CDF, what are the benefits of Brexit? You can disregard the part about WTO rules, increased unemployment, weak pound etc.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 4 Sep 18:14
Quote:
Captain Desmond Fancey, Wed 4 Sep 17:06
What a typically patronising post from somebody who clearly voted to stay.
Lets just assume that 17.4 million people are just thick, or too old.
Little wonder there's such anger.
And how many young, super intelligent people voted Leave? Not many more, I believe. Certainly not a significant majority to warrant such a massive constitutional change. The blame for this mess lies with David Cameron and his cabinet. Had they insisted on a threshold of 2/3 or even 60% of those eligible to vote we would have been spared this charade.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Wed 4 Sep 18:14
While a valid case can made for leaving the EU I struggle to find any logic in leaving without a deal. That can and will weaken the UK economically and put us in a weaker position to negotiate a trade deal with other nations as well as the EU.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Wed 4 Sep 18:15
GG, are you also in favour of a 60% plus majority needed for Scottish independence as well?
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Wed 4 Sep 18:30
Feels like some people believe that a person's right to vote, or the sway of their vote, should be determined by their perceived intelligence.
How very liberal.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 4 Sep 18:36
Avoiding my question CDF?
I'll answer your statement with a question - would you rather the person making decisions was fully informed on what or who they are voting for, or do you go with making a decision and hoping for the best?
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 4 Sep 19:11
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Wed 4 Sep 18:15
GG, are you also in favour of a 60% plus majority needed for Scottish independence as well?
Yes, you can't chop and change depending on how much you fancy something. If you want to bring about a such an important constitutional change, it makes no sense to base it on a wafer thin, simple majority, in my humble one.
All the Brexit Referendum told us was that the voters were hopelessly split and confused as to which was the best outcome for the UK's future and don't forget they were fed screeds of misinformation by both sides and 26% of the population didn't use their vote.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 4 Sep 19:14
Quote:
Captain Desmond Fancey, Wed 4 Sep 18:30
Feels like some people believe that a person's right to vote, or the sway of their vote, should be determined by their perceived intelligence.
How very liberal.
You started it with a sarcastic post with the assumption that those who voted Leave were old and thick.
Not your average Sunday League player.
Post Edited (Wed 04 Sep 19:16)
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Topic Originator: donj
Date: Wed 4 Sep 19:43
Johnson has only one thing going for him and that it is easy to tell when he's lying as his mouth moves.He has made a life out of bullying and lying.
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Topic Originator: donj
Date: Wed 4 Sep 23:07
Already happened but liked this description.
Tomorrow could be the funniest day in Westminster for years.
Well, 20-odd Tory MPs are to be expelled from the parliamentary Tory party for voting in accordance with Johnson's Leave campaign pledge that the UK would never leave without a deal.
That leaves us with:
a Tory PM, about 40 votes short of a majority, who somehow still actually wants an election; and
a Labour opposition leader who's trailing in the polls and, even now, probably doesn't want an election - despite asking for one for about two years now.
Here's how we get to the funny bit.
Alexander Boris De Piffle Johnson needs a two-thirds majority to call an election before 2022, and as tonight shows, he won't get it - at least, not before the 'reject no deal' (RND) amendment is passed into law. But there is one way he could trump tomorrow's business.
He could call a vote of 'No Confidence' in himself.
That vote supersedes all other parliamentary business, and he could rush it to the table before any RND amendment sees the light of day. But Corbyn won't want that at all.
So (giggle), Johnson could end up voting that he has no confidence in himself - but opposition leader Corbyn could vote against the motion, and support Johnson's government by voting that he DOES have confidence in it, just to make sure that the RND business is heard. If that happens, I'm pretty sure it would be a first in parliamentary history anywhere in the world.
I'm pretty sure that no parliament anywhere has had a government trying to throw themselves out, while the opposition props them up.
Honestly, "mother of parliaments"? It seems more like this particular mum's got dementia, running around the front garden naked and turning the hose on people waiting at the bus-stop.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Thu 5 Sep 00:05
Johnson's record so far:
Three votes
Three losses.
Apart from that he has the EU quaking in their boots. And apparently Corbyn is frightened of him too. Johnson, the horizontal British heavyweight.
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Thu 5 Sep 06:03
English Parliament is stuffed with idiots, BJ, Mogg and countless other expensively educated idiots.
Why anyone in Scotland would want these morons governing us is bewildering.
They have no interest in Scotland whatsoever, other than making sure the cash keeps flowing into the treasury’s coffers.
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Thu 5 Sep 08:07
"You started it with a sarcastic post with the assumption that those who voted Leave were old and thick."
Not me. I'm not one for applying stereotypes. Besides I voted Leave, would do again tomorrow and I fall into neither category (although I am getting closer and closer to old).
Jake, I've answered that question on countless occasions. Maybe your memory is about as good as Wotsit's.
How about ability to negotiate bespoke trade deals for us and not for 27 other countries. The ability to end free movement and no more interference from the ECJ. That's just for starters.
Oh, and of course blue passports for all the thick old people.
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Thu 5 Sep 10:37
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Thu 5 Sep 11:10
The UK could have had blue passports anytime they wanted.
There wasn't, and isn't an EU regulation that requires a burgundy coloured Passport.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Thu 5 Sep 11:26
Hahaha. Even his brother has resigned. I thought blood was thicker than a leave voter? 😉
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Thu 5 Sep 11:51
Great contribution from BigJPar. May as well close the thread now as the only way is down from here.
AAPS, I'm well aware of the passport situation and wasn't being entirely serious with my reference to them.
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Thu 5 Sep 11:54
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Thu 5 Sep 11:58
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 5 Sep 12:35
Absolutely nothing to do with the debate but I just want to correct Ipswich. The saying 'blood is thicker than water' is very often misused. It's usually used so imply that nothing trumps family bonds however the 'blood' in the saying is in regards to blood shed in battle and the 'water' is in regards to the water you have notionally shared with your siblings in the womb. So the saying is implying that you should put your brothers in arms ahead of your actual brothers.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
Post Edited (Thu 05 Sep 12:36)
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Thu 5 Sep 13:05
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Thu 5 Sep 12:35
Absolutely nothing to do with the debate but I just want to correct Ipswich. The saying 'blood is thicker than water' is very often misused. It's usually used so imply that nothing trumps family bonds however the 'blood' in the saying is in regards to blood shed in battle and the 'water' is in regards to the water you have notionally shared with your siblings in the womb. So the saying is implying that you should put your brothers in arms ahead of your actual brothers.
Never knew that, however I suppose language changes that brings both new words and new meaning to old ones.
So while the historical reference is fascinating and clearly different from today's use, the fact that everyone understands what is trying to be conveyed by that expression today, for me means that, that new meaning is now the definition... So I'd argue were maybe using differently from 50 years ago, but we're not using it incorrectly as it correctly conveys what the speaker is trying to say
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Thu 5 Sep 13:11
Well it isnt really a correction given
1. I dont believe the bible has any merit
2. I'm not a massive fan of ancient Eastern covenants
3. It is commonly used thesedays in the way that I've used it.
But everday is a schoolday.
Got to shoot, I'm off to covet my neighbour's bottom .
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Thu 5 Sep 13:33
"In the words of Michael Gove, the EU negotiators are "formidable". I wouldn't be too confident of the bungling Tories being able to negotiate any better trade deals than the EU."
Yes but the day we start taking a bug-eyed turd like Gove's word for anything would indeed be a dark one.
I wouldn't have him anywhere near my cabinet personally.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 5 Sep 14:05
Your drinks cabinet?
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Thu 5 Sep 14:55
"Your drinks cabinet?"
My drinks "cabinet" consists of a shelf in my fridge with a few cold cans in it and not much else. But, no, I wouldn't let Gove near that either ;)
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 5 Sep 15:26
Haha going way off topic now but I don't think it's a biblocal saying is it Ipswich?
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Thu 5 Sep 16:30
Difficult to see how Johnson can come out of this intact now to be honest.
He's lost his working majority.
He's sacked 21 of his MP's.
Others have jumped ship voluntarily or resigned.
He can't force a General Election.
I doubt he'd even win if he called a vote of no confidence in himself!!
His promises of Brexit by November seem very hollow.
His one last chance is to accept an extension of article 50 but have a General Election between November and January and hope he gets the majority returned he's lost.
Labour will have to agree to an election sooner or later but unlikely they would win outright so we may see a hung Parliament and a coalition government.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Thu 5 Sep 18:30
Johnson is cracking up faster than I thought he would. A photo opportunity with a captive audience of police officers for backdrop is a smart enough idea for any Tory leader: it reassures the Tory voter and reminds opponents of what awaits them if they step out of line. But Johnson has just delivered a rambling speech that included a reference to him ‘dying in a ditch.’ The photographs of him since becoming PM look markedly different to those from a few months back.
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Topic Originator: donj
Date: Thu 5 Sep 18:40
He never could handle a real job with pressure.His life has been built on bully boy tactics,loudness,smarmy jokes and insulting people.
Unfortunately those qualities are not the required ones for a UK prime minister.Yep they work for Trump but it's a bit over the top for here.Cummings is actually running the country telling the clown what to do or say but his knowledge of real politics is nil so disaster beckons for him.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Thu 5 Sep 19:04
The photographs of him since becoming PM look markedly different to those from a few months back.
"Don't you think she looks tired?"
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Thu 5 Sep 20:03
Apparently that was based on something said casually by one Thatcher's aids that caused a sort of domino effect and led to that glorious day in November 1990.
I remember being so happy because I had a new Pars top to wear to college that day, as well as the great news which nobody else would have known unless they were late too!
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Topic Originator: Jbob
Date: Sun 8 Sep 07:39
The cartoon of a man who is Prime Minister is falling apart quicker than a cheap suit.
The Tories are reaping what they have sown by voting him as leader.
Bobs of the world unite
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sun 8 Sep 08:12
A more graphic illustration of "painting yourself into a corner " you couldn't hope to see.
Schadenfreude is not the most noble of sentiments, but still...... 😃
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sun 8 Sep 09:20
Quote:
GG Riva, Sun 8 Sep 08:12
A more graphic illustration of "painting yourself into a corner " you couldn't hope to see.
Schadenfreude is not the most noble of sentiments, but still...... 😃
But the most appropriate language to use!
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Sun 8 Sep 10:22
And yet a poll on Friday has his party leading by 14 points which would be enough to give him a sizable majority.
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Sun 8 Sep 10:43
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sun 8 Sep 10:45
What was TM's poll lead just before the 2015 election campaign again?
Supplementary question: to you think that Johnson will, on the evidence so far, run a better campaign than TM?
Say what you like about Corbyn but he has played a blinder here. How many LibDem and Tory leaders is it that he's outlasted now? Considering when he was first elected he wasn't expected to last five minutes.
He's held his party more or less together despite it being more split than the Tories.
And he's done this despite the, apparently left wing, media undermining him at every opportunity.
He's done no bad, under difficult circumstances, for a guy who didn't really want the job in the first place.
Mind you, wanting the job too much might actually be Johnson's weakness here.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Sun 8 Sep 11:12
"Yep, the far right in England are loving it. Not so much in Scotland where agent Boris is doing a grand job."
Ah, that's the stuff, lets play the "far right" card. Seems to be the fashionable "insult" these days. Just look at the number of times the likes of Lammy uses that very phrase on Twitter.
Wotsit believe it or I do actually respect your opinion most of the time but to say that Corbyn is playing a blinder is off the scale guff. His own MPs can't stand him and he's only staying where he is because of the Union leaders and the ragtag momentum crew.
You know as well as I do that he will never be Prime Minister. To say he's done "no bad" is laughable too. Despite the absolute clusterf**k that the Conservatives are just now he is currently polling at anything from 25 down to 18%. Just imagine what kind of position a good leader (a John Smith for example) could have had the Labour Party in right now. They could, and should, be out of sight in the polls.
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Sun 8 Sep 11:19
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sun 8 Sep 11:23
I'm referring to how well he's played the hand he was dealt.
He's outlasted the opposition leaders to an almost comical degree considering the prognosis for his leadership.
Corbyn will benefit from the election campaign, just like he did last time whilst Johnson will have to actually show his face in public during this campaign, and we all know what happens when he does that...
E2A: although I don't think Johnson will be Tory leader when election time comes: he'll have walked away from his mess again before then.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
Post Edited (Sun 08 Sep 11:24)
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Sun 8 Sep 13:23
Care to explain how the Brexit Party are even remotely "far right".
I'm looking forward to this
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Sun 8 Sep 13:29
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Sun 8 Sep 13:38
That the best you can come up with ??
They happen to have one of the most ethnically diverse list of candidates and, in one Claire Fox, one of the most left wing MEPs in Brussels.
Plus Nigel Farage has, on several occasions, made his utter contempt for Robinson well known. Indeed, whilst he was leader of UKIP it was also the only party to ban anybody from joining who was previously connected with the likes of EDL and BNP.
Still, like I mentioned before, it's all too easy these days to throw that "far right" slur about.
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Sun 8 Sep 13:51
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Sun 8 Sep 18:43
So. Who do we believe. Amber Rudd and the EU who say there are no EU negotiations or Boris who says there are negotiations?
Post Edited (Sun 08 Sep 18:44)
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sun 8 Sep 18:58
Farage is a right winger all right and a fascist one to boot, behind that Man from the Pru raincoat and cheery wave of the fag. He believes in the right of the strong to dominate the weak and is only the latest in a long line of what used to be called Empire Loyalists who wish to restore what they see as the natural order of things. Whether he chooses to wear a brownshirt or a blackshirt is irrelevant; his vision of Brexit is to remove all these annoying EU regulations on workers’ rights and indeed human rights in order to give free rein to US capital, for which he is already being richly rewarded. Every time he visits the US on some vague speaking tour he comes back with his pockets stuffed with dollars. Robinson, who also benefits from US donations, is a useful dupe in that he has the effect of making Farage look respectable.
Farage’s view on the pension age being raised to 75? Farage’s view on building council houses? Farage’s view on trade union rights? Farage’s view on state education? Farage’s view on military intervention by the UK outwith the auspices of the UN? Farage’s view on bankers being paid bonuses for bankrupting the UK economy? Farage on tax evasion by giant corporations? He rarely gets called to task on any of this, despite his wild claim that the media is a hotbed of Marxists.
As for the diversity of his Brexiteer band, that is irrelevant if they believe in the rule of the strong over the weak same as he does. The Wehrmacht was a rainbow alliance of European fascists in its brief heyday, dredging up the rubbish from every corner of Europe into its armies. It took almost 40 million European deaths that time round to teach us the error of our ways, and the EU and Declaration of Human Rights emerged from the rubble to protect us in future: Farage has no time for either of them.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 8 Sep 19:24
The Brexit party are a joke. Sadly, there's a lot of people who agree with their backward views. Their diverse squad is quite hilarious. Farage stands there pointing going, "Look, we have a dark...black man now. We're diverse. Here's Sandra with a tray of sandwiches. Yes, we let women in now..."
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Sun 8 Sep 19:24
"Farage is a right winger all right and a fascist one to boot"
You lost me (not for the first time admittedly) at this absolute garbage. Seriously, I read some of your rants and don't know whether to laugh at you or pity you.
The good old days
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Sun 8 Sep 19:49
Quote:
Captain Desmond Fancey, Sun 8 Sep 19:24
"Farage is a right winger all right and a fascist one to boot"
You lost me (not for the first time admittedly) at this absolute garbage. Seriously, I read some of your rants and don't know whether to laugh at you or pity you.
I don't think that was a rant. To me it seemed like a well thought out post. Very much unlike yours which had no facts and was very dismissive.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sun 8 Sep 23:48
CDF claimed earlier he would welcome an argument that claimed Farage was right wing. I gave him one, whatever its merits.
Now he does not want to respond.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Mon 9 Sep 00:47
Farage has Johnson and the Conservative Party in his pocket.
It's blindingly obvious to anyone who follows politics closely enough.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Mon 9 Sep 13:12
Wrong again Sammer...
"Care to explain how the Brexit Party are even remotely "far right"."
I've never disputed Nigel Farage being somewhat right of centre, but he's certainly not the "fascist" or "nazi" you try to portray him as. The point I was, correctly, making is the the Brexit Party themselves are not wholly right wing.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 9 Sep 13:16
Another 'one nation' Tory has announced he won't be standing at the next GE. I think that's about 20 now and doesn't include many who had the whip suspended. How are they going to replace them all? Could there be two Conservative parties represented at the next GE?
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Mon 9 Sep 15:19
Have to admit, I don't see the point in trying to place false labels on politicians. Although quite obviously its electioneering...
Is Farage Far Right? No. The Man is a British Nationalist who quite obviously has business interests that would not be benefited by remaining in the EU when the new regulations about overseas companies come into force. Like Trump, he knows his voter base and what to say RE "The Good Old Days" to garner votes.
Is Corbyn a Communist, Marxist of whatever? No. The guy is a staunch Social Democrat who is actually quite similar from a policy perspective to the politicians we have in Sweden.
In both of these cases, there are people who follow them that do fit these labels and both have to fight to keep these labels off. I would say its fair to state that Corbyn has a harder time fighting these labels because a lot of the media moguls have a vested interest in keeping him out of power. This can be demonstrated by the vigour with which the anti-Semeiism thing has been pursued, where I think there is a deliberate attempt to conflate standing up for the Palestinians as being anti-Jewish rather than anti-Netanyahu. Granted this whole thing stems from Leftist politics have a genuine conflict between supporting freedom of religion and women's and LGBT rights which are most definitely not compatible.
I think basically, its a big slaggin match these days...
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 9 Sep 15:20
Quote:
moviescot, Sun 8 Sep 18:43
So. Who do we believe. Amber Rudd and the EU who say there are no EU negotiations or Boris who says there are negotiations?
EU officials have also stated that Johnson hasn't advanced any proposal in relation to a post Brexit deal. Maybe everyone's lying except our Boris?
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Mon 9 Sep 17:26
Maybe everyone's lying except our Boris?
He'll be showing us a map of the EU with Britain crossed out in sharpie next.
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Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Mon 9 Sep 19:40
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Wed 4 Sep 18:15
GG, are you also in favour of a 60% plus majority needed for Scottish independence as well?
After witnessing the mess a virtual 50 50 vote has caused, I would say yes.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Mon 9 Sep 20:02
disagree completely and don't think another 8% would have magically meant it all would have went any better.
the real fault lies with 3 related things for me:
1. No plan
Vote leave didn't present a vision or definition of what leave meant - so afterwards everyone had a different view of what should happen
2. No Responsibility
Vote leave had no responsibility over what was said or on the hook for delivery of what was promised. This is because vote leave was essentially an amalgamation of different individuals who came together to campaign for people to tick their box. The morning of voting day, they disbanded and went back to their traditional parties and whips
3. No Collaboration and No Will
The conservatives (assuming as they were government of the day) decided it was going to be their brexit and ploughed ahead with what they wanted without bringing in other parties. this caused a divide in parliament as people's positions entrenched.
Also, the fact that the majority of parliament didn't want to do it meant it was always going to be an uphill struggle, but the conservative exclusion of everyone meant people who had a vested interest were left on the outside of the tent, pi**ing in, as opposed to being invited into the tent to p*** out!
Post Edited (Tue 10 Sep 06:26)
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