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Topic Originator: dave67
Date: Thu 5 Sep 12:31
Not boris. His brother
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Thu 5 Sep 12:40
Even his own brother can't stand him.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Thu 5 Sep 13:33
Or maybe his brother is just another one who's choosing to ignore his constituents - who voted approximately 57.5% to leave.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Thu 5 Sep 19:32
They were also told that no deal wasn't an option and voted on that basis.
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Thu 5 Sep 19:43
Nobody was ever told that. Ever.
Stop falling for that left wing trait of also assuming you know on what basis people voted. It's incredibly patronising
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Thu 5 Sep 20:08
All said prior to the referendum:
“Outside the EU, we would still benefit from the free trade zone which stretches from Iceland to the Russian border,” Michael Gove
: “The OECD states that: ‘trade with the EU and other countries would initially revert to a WTO MFN-basis’. This is a highly flawed assumption that not even the IN campaign seriously contemplates as a realistic possibility. Leading pro-EU campaigners have admitted the UK will strike a free trade agreement if we Vote Leave.” Vote Leave Press Release
“I put it to you, all those who say that there would be barriers to trade with Europe if we were to do a Brexit, do you seriously believe that they would put up tariffs against UK produce of any kind, when they know how much they want to sell us their cake, their champagne, their cheese from France? It is totally and utterly absurd.”
“EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU. British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down,” he said. “The only change – and it will not come in any great rush – is that the UK will extricate itself from the EU’s extraordinary and opaque system of legislation.”
“There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal.”
Boris Johnson said/wrote the last three.
I have more if you're not convinced that at least some people were told at least once?
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 5 Sep 20:50
CDF in talking nonsense shocker...
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Thu 5 Sep 20:54
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Thu 5 Sep 22:06
"CDF in talking nonsense shocker..."
Jake in offering nothing shocker.
It was always made clear that whilst a deal was desirable - and indeed still is - that we would be leaving without if one wasn't struck by the time 2 years had passed from the implementation of Article 50.
Like many, I suspect, I voted to leave regardless and it never entered my head "what if we don't get a deal" when I cast my vote.
Now Jake if you have something a bit more valuable to add, please do so. Otherwise best just to move onto another thread really.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Thu 5 Sep 22:42
“There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal.”
Some good quotes unearthed there wotsit, but this might be the most pertinent.
If Johnson has even the grape skin of a chance of getting a ‘good deal’ from the EU then he will have to go back, contrite, and try to negotiate one. The EU don’t like him. They pitied May, but they clearly dislike Johnson, and for good reason.
But the real stumbling block is this: Johnson has not time go back and negotiate a deal before his self-declared Halloween date, so he cannot survive as a politician if he has to renege on his bombastic promise. He can’t get a crash-out; that disappeared yesterday. He can’t do deal either in the time scale, so far as I can see. He might not get an election before Halloween either. The headline of this blog might be repeated in about 7 week’s time.
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Topic Originator: Kintos
Date: Thu 5 Sep 23:31
CDF:
Like many, I suspect, I voted to leave regardless and it never entered my head "what if we don't get a deal" when I cast my vote.
"I suspect"
Well CDF... If you're argument is only based on a surmisation, best not continuing peddling this line any further?
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Thu 5 Sep 23:39
Quote:
Kintos, Thu 5 Sep 23:31
CDF:
Like many, I suspect, I voted to leave regardless and it never entered my head "what if we don't get a deal" when I cast my vote.
"I suspect"
Well CDF... If you're argument is only based on a surmisation, best not continuing peddling this line any further?
He's just doing that Left wing thing.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Thu 5 Sep 23:49
There's a rather large difference. I said I suspect (and I'm also basing that on the good few Leave voters I know and remain on close contact with) whereas the lefts resident mouthpiece is more or less telling you he knows why Leave voters voted the way they did.
That's some ESP to get in the minds of 17.4 million people. What's your secret ?
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Fri 6 Sep 08:17
I voted Leave in exactly the circumstances I described.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Fri 6 Sep 08:24
I'm genuinely surprised by that. Not the circumstances as such, but your vote.
Would you change if it was run again tomorrow ?
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Fri 6 Sep 09:08
I definitely would. I never imagined this sh#*show in a million years
The thing is I would [I]prefer[/I] to leave the EU but not under any circumstance and I would also have been happy with reform of the EU's rather charmingly named "democratic processes."
Same goes for the UK. If Scotland were to choose independence in a way that threatened to tear the country apart then I'd want to just forget it for now.
That's why I am in favour of a second vote: I honestly believe that we, none of us, expected this.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Fri 6 Sep 09:19
Something we can agree on then. I don't think anybody could ever have imagined just how much of an absolute mess it would turn out to be. Both sides of the divide can take some of the blame for that.
To be honest I never expected for a second when I woke up the next morning that Leave would have won. Honestly expected Remain to win quite comfortably.
Perhaps a second vote would be the way forward, but the concern there is that the result is another close one and then the divisions become even deeper. I guess a lot would depend on how the question was worded this time round.
I don't believe May's "deal" should form a part of it. The only thing it really succeeds in is giving everybody what nobody wants.
For me it would - until such time as any new deal could be negotiated (which is looking increasingly unlikely) - it would have to be a simple choice between Revoking Article 50 and a 'clean' break.
The good old days
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 6 Sep 10:35
Finally acceptance that brexit is "an absolute mess".
So why are people so against a second vote on whether people wish to continue.
People say it was clear we wanted a no deal Brexit. That is absolute nonsense. By simply omiting mention of a trade deal doesn't mean there's an understanding that we were leaving without one.
The process should have been a vote in reviewing leaving the EU. We should have agreed the terms for our departure and the put that to the public. Simple.
Instead we've had time wasting posturing from a Tory party determined to destroy this country.
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Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey
Date: Fri 6 Sep 10:48
It's only a mess because it's not been allowed to happen. There's a big difference and I will always maintain that Brexit could be a success.
I'm more and more resigned to it never being allowed to happen though
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Fri 6 Sep 12:44
There's no reason why Brexit shouldn't happen deal or no deal but as said holding another vote before it happens solves nothing and would open the floodgates for Nigel Farage and his ilk.
To get round this, best to allow Brexit to happen but leave a future vote open to rejoin the EU from any party who campaigns for it in a General Election.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 6 Sep 15:03
A second referendum asking people whether, given all the new information they now have, they still wish to proceed has nothing to do with dimwits like Farage. He's a simple snake-oil salesman.
The issue with saying we can go in or out depending on what an elected party wants would be absolute chaos. It's not like deciding whether or not to keep Netflix, it affects how people live their lives.
I completely accept that people want brexit but I'm yet to be convinced it's a good thing for Scotland or the UK as a whole. All I see is how utterly incompetent our elected leaders are.
It's an issue with politics in general where people are focussed on petty point scoring rather then seeking to resolve issues. Stop messing around, agree terms with the EU and bring them back to the people of the UK and ask them for a final yay or nay. It's as simple as that.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Fri 6 Sep 15:12
When someone comes to my desk at work and asks for a favour I always ask what it is before giving my answer.
Asking people to decide before a deal is like asking them to agree to a favour before they know what it is.
We should get a confirmation vote on whatever deal, or otherwise, is chosen. Same goes for Indy, and I was saying so at the time: not all independence deals are acceptable to me, just like all Brexit scenarios are not either.
I'm also not the sort of person to stick to my guns through thick and thin. Integrity will always win out over loyalty to a cause.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
Post Edited (Fri 06 Sep 18:39)
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Fri 6 Sep 20:32
Given the issue with the back stop in Ireland I assume the Nats have worked out how to man the border between Scotland and England if/ when they achieve the promised land?
Maybe Hadrian’s Wall can be rebuilt?
Post Edited (Fri 06 Sep 20:37)
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Fri 6 Sep 21:03
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Fri 6 Sep 21:24
Need to find a few brickies I think.
Of course you will get them from Poland etc.
😂
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Fri 6 Sep 21:28
A wall might be a bit of effort. Let's just stick at a pompous residence and call it Johnson's Folly.
Next week is going to be interesting. He's going to try and force things now.
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Topic Originator: parbucks
Date: Fri 6 Sep 21:30
Something we agree on. 🙂
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Topic Originator: donj
Date: Fri 6 Sep 23:05
OK Parsbuck you tell me how many border crossings we have.Not that many btw.I really doubt anybody would ever try to drive a lorry over our moors.
I had to travel down South many times and used them all.
Post Edited (Fri 06 Sep 23:07)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 6 Sep 23:18
It's like 2014 all over again - Hadrian's wall is NOT the border between Scotland and England. Never was and is never likely to be. So all the dimwits suggesting rebuilding it would be bringing Northumbria into Scotland, which would probably annoy them given Scotland already stole large areas of the Kingdom of Northumbria, including where our current capital city lies!
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Fri 6 Sep 23:29
The border between Scotland and England could work in exactly the same way as Switzerland who have 6 borders with EU countries.
Yes there is controls with lorries but last less than 15 minutes on average.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 7 Sep 08:38
If all else fails we could use BJ's workable alternatives!😊
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 7 Sep 11:26
One thing is for sure. If we don't leave the EU it kills calls for a second indy referendum stone dead. In such an instance Scotland isn't being taken out against its will, in fact it will have strengthened the argument that Scotland has a major say within the union.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: DBA
Date: Sat 7 Sep 11:40
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Sat 7 Sep 11:26
Scotland has a major say within the union.
If we don't leave the EU, Scotland's say will have absolutely nothing to do with it. It's the incompetence of the negotiators that will have driven people to change their mind - nothing to do with us up North!
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Sat 7 Sep 12:35
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Sat 7 Sep 11:26
One thing is for sure. If we don't leave the EU it kills calls for a second indy referendum stone dead. In such an instance Scotland isn't being taken out against its will, in fact it will have strengthened the argument that Scotland has a major say within the union.
While I agree with you here, it would be a disaster for the Yes campaign if the SNP encouraged Brexit.
It is a high risk strategy but I see no evidence Brexit won't happen with or without a deal.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: BigJPar
Date: Sat 7 Sep 13:22
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