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 Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 24 Nov 13:51

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/uk-fishing-industry-rows-back-on-brexit/

It looks as though some prominent fisherman that supported Brexit possibly didn't understand that leave means leave and have jointly written to the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to complain about the new post Brexit requirements associated with exporting fish to the EU.

It appears the paperwork required to be completed will have a serious negative impact on their exports and potentially the viability of some businesses. Unfortunately from a UK perspective there's no other alternative in a no deal scenario (and Norway and Iceland have to provide the forms even under their deals so even if a deal is signed off it may still be an issue).

It seems strange that it is actually an issue given that we've established that everyone knew exactly what they voted for at the time of the referendum and we also debunked the nonsense about red tape being a hindrance to our global ambition as " Project Fear" conducted by those gutless and cowardly Remoaners who've been carping on with references to tedious regulations for god knows how long now.

Will be interesting to see how it pans out. On the one hand its a little bit sole destroying to see UK business being negatively impacted but on the other side it is the will of the people and Brexit means Brexit so we must see it through to the batter end.

I suspect the terrible puns in there will just be a drop in the ocean.
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Tue 24 Nov 14:29

Why is fishing given so much prominence given that it amounts to 0.1% of the UK economy and furthermore, in Scotland it is run by five families in reality?

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 24 Nov 15:45

I've made that point before as well. I went looking for figures on its contribution to the UK economy way back and it was very hard to find at the time as its so small.

There was a good article on the emotive pull of us being an island nation of sailors having clout amongst people's mind set so it made them more inclined to back fisherman than financial services despite the fact FS accounts for round about 10% of our GDP.
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 24 Nov 19:00

Fishing is political. These are our waters etc.
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Tue 24 Nov 19:15

To be fair I presume it is also a very small share of gdp for the likes of France and Spain so their governments just need to realise that brexit meant brexit and that they can no longer harvest British waters.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 24 Nov 20:02

I think they do realise that but they've got a bit more leverage in the big picture than we have over them in areas like this.
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Tue 24 Nov 21:34

If the government don`t negotiate a deal then the big winners will be the fish.

The EU won`t have access to UK waters, and the UK won`t be able to catch much more because there will be no market for it.

Maybe they were the masterminds behind Brexit all along.

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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Tue 24 Nov 23:26

Ref: londonparsfan
Tue 24 Nov 13:51

"It looks as though some prominent fisherman that supported Brexit...have...

[complained] about the new post Brexit requirements associated with

exporting fish to the EU."


They had it straight from the fish`s mouth*, but would they listen?

Now it doesn`t seem so Brill, they`ve changed their Tuna -

feeling down-at-Eel, like Suckers -

they`re not doing the Conger any more.

No use crying over spilt milt, they sold their Sole to the Devil.


(*Apologies to Ms Sturgeon for poetic licence.)



Post Edited (Tue 24 Nov 23:27)
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 24 Nov 23:40

It doesn't matter if fishermen voted Brexit or support the union it's about much more than them. Whole communities rely on the fishing industry.
I don't want to see those communities damaged whatever their political views.
Even though fishing itself is a small part of the economy Scottish produce is among the best in the world and has a great reputation.
It's part of Scotlands wider food and drink industry which is also world renowned.
After Independence fishing will be important in maintaining Scotlands reputation for quality produce so its important to support them regardless of their politics.
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 25 Nov 02:41

Not often I disagree with you SIF but I'm going to on this occasion. It absolutely does matter what they voted for and why.

The bottom line is the Common Fishery Policy is genuinely one of the few areas where the EU does better out of us (at least in terms of quotas) than we do out of them.

Through Brexit fisherman thought they could take advantage of the changes in access to our waters and limit other non British fisherman's access to fish whilst increasing their own access and hoping they could earn more money. Their vote was driven by their own personal gain.

Fair enough its our waters and our fish stocks and in some respects I guess you could say a lot of people vote for what will benefit them personally so they might not be unique in that respect.

That being said, my sister lives and works abroad. Do you think any of them stopped to think about what a Brexit vote meant for my sister's rights in the EU for thing like access to health care or do you think they were looking at the pound signs from increasing their own quotas of fish they could land? Did they give any thought to anyone else in the UK that could lose their jobs through Brexit? Were they concerned that companies like the one I work for now create jobs in Amsterdam and Dublin rather than London and our sector has lost out? What about difficulties for people in jobs like mine where I'm going to have more issues that negatively impact our business with no more resources to deal with them?

Have a quick Google of the people that have signed that letter and let me know which ones are short of a bob and then tell me if I should support them when they have done absolutely nothing to support anyone else that is going to lose out through Brexit. Those losses can be either through the loss of free movement to the EU (we actually do have opportunity to live and work there too) or via redundancy when jobs move abroad or where jobs are never now created here because entire functions have been relocated abroad (as they now have for the firm I work for).

Did any of the people in that letter worry about the impact on EU fisherman's livelihoods and how they would support their families when they couldn't access our waters and their businesses went bust or were they thinking about how their market share would go up as they forced others out of our waters and how much they would profit from it? Might not be the over riding consideration for a lot of British folk but their gains come at losses for others.

If a bunch of relatively well off businessmen (because that's what they are) get burned because their vote for their own self interest bites them on the @rse, and, it turns out they can't make as much money as they thought they could because they didn't understand the implications of the system they voted for (ironically after telling everyone that everybody did know what they voted for) then I'm sorry but I won't be losing any sleep about it an
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 25 Nov 02:45

Assuming there is a new restriction in the number of characters you can post? Half that post is missing.

I was going to finish by saying that if they wanted frictionless trade with the EU they had the option to vote for it and chose not to. They voted to maximise the amount fish they could catch thinking it would be most beneficial to them.

I was also going to ask the question that if a bunch of bankers had been stung by not fully understanding what they had voted for would you support them in the same way? If not, why do other wealthy businessmen deserve that support?

Post Edited (Wed 25 Nov 02:47)
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Wed 25 Nov 04:10

I care more about the communities that will be effected. I lived in the East Neuk until I was 11 and spent almost 8 years based in Peterhead when in the RAF.
Fishing is about more than just the fishermen.
Yeah they screwed us over but as past of Scotland's food and drink industry it's important to have a successful fishing industry.
We can't just forget about them cause they are self serving scumbags cause it's not just them who will suffer.
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 25 Nov 09:05

Fair point well made - my disdain for those guys had probably overshadowed that I wouldn't want wider communities to suffer.

I lived in Lossiemouth and although there wasn't a huge amount of fishing out of there I get your point about small coastal towns needing looked after.
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Wed 25 Nov 10:29

I`m with LPF on this one.
I don`t really want to see any communities adversely affected by stupid or unfortunate decisions, but at least fishing communities had a say in what was going to happen to them. In general, they chose to twist instead of sticking because they thought they had a bad deal.

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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 25 Nov 10:55

All you have to do is look at the Brexit supporting Sunderland, Nissan now going to close their factory?

Never saw it mentioned on main stream media, but turkeys voting for Christmas comes to mind!🤔

Edit:- German automotive trade magazine reported this, closure now being denied!

Post Edited (Wed 25 Nov 10:58)
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 25 Nov 11:02

Yes it`s nonsense which is why it isn`t being reported by the dastardly mainstream media. What wasn`t reported that widely was the news that BMW is moving production of some of their engines to the UK while their German factories undergo changes to making hybrid models and green energy supplies.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 25 Nov 11:41

I realise this is going to sound harsh, but people put their vote in and need to face the consequences. All this "I didn't realise this would happen..." stuff is ridiculous. I understand it's often difficult to understand what's true and what isn't but surely people are capable of identifying how things will impact on them?

What I don't agree with is how people were misled by both the government and the media. To me government representatives should only give the facts rather than opinions. They shouldn't be stood in front of buses stating Brexit will mean ÂŁ350m going to the NHS or making statements that fishermen can get their waters back.

The media in this country is woeful. Yes, they need to sell papers but the stuff they churn out is not what I would call journalism. It's more like gossip. "BORIS KICK THE EU WHERE IT HURTS" "NICOLA WANTS A BORDER PATROL" "GORDON BROWN SAYS THE UNION MUST REMAIN". It's just click-bait.
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 25 Nov 11:52

^^^^ Agree!đź‘Ť
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Wed 25 Nov 11:54

Unfortunately the MSM control the narrative in the UK.
I genuinely believed what I read in these rags prior to 2014 but in reality they're controlled by a few rich individuals who spout out the tory agenda
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 25 Nov 12:47

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Wed 25 Nov 11:02

Yes it`s nonsense which is why it isn`t being reported by the dastardly mainstream media. What wasn`t reported that widely was the news that BMW is moving production of some of their engines to the UK while their German factories undergo changes to making hybrid models and green energy supplies.


Sounds like the old engines being shifted to England don’t have much of a future ...So is that more like turkeys voting for next again Christmas then!?!? 🤣
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 25 Nov 18:37

Think you're right DBP. If I was told my job in car manufacturing was still involving petrol/diesel engines then I'd be keeping an eye out for new jobs. Manufacturing of these is likely to dramatically reduce over the next decade whether people like electric cars or not.
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 1 Dec 12:49

I hadn't realised how much of the quotas that already existed had been sold to foreigners by Brits:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52420116
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 7 Dec 10:15

I was going to post that article LPF this is also a good read
https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2018/10/11/fishing-quota-uk-defra-michael-gove

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 7 Dec 11:37

Every day is a school day! Thanks that's a really good read.
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 7 Dec 11:47

Some good articles.

Has Gove's family not got links to the fishing industry up in Aberdeen?
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 7 Dec 16:28

This from 2016 LA :-

Michael Gove’s father has contradicted claims made by his son that the family’s fish processing firm in Aberdeen was destroyed by the European Union’s fisheries policies.

Ernest Gove told the Guardian that he sold the business voluntarily because the fishing industry in Aberdeen was being hit by a range of different factors. These included competition for space in the port from North Sea oil vessels, the Icelandic cod wars, dockworkers’ strikes and new 200-mile limits to control over-fishing.

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 7 Dec 16:38

Cheers BPP, cod wars were years ago?
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 7 Dec 17:46

Aug 2017 :-

SCOTLAND’S fishing industry was hit by a Brexit bombshell yesterday when Environment Secretary Michael Gove confirmed that European Union fishing boats will continue to catch fish in Scottish waters.

The revelation by Gove, son of an Aberdeen fish processor, in meetings with opposite numbers in Denmark came as a complete surprise to the Scottish Government which was not consulted over the announcement even though fisheries are a devolved matter.

The SNP said that the “startling revelations on the Tories’ true position over fisheries post-Brexit” showed that “you cannot trust the Tories to stand up for rural Scotland’s interests”.

Dec 2019 :-

Michael Gove has insisted access to fishing waters would not be traded away in return for access to European markets after Brexit.

Boris Johnson’s Cabinet Office minister said the UK would have the final say over who came into UK waters and on what terms after leaving the EU.

Mr Gove made the pledge as he campaigned in Aberdeen South with Conservative candidate Douglas Lumsden.

Fears that access to fishing waters could be dragged into wider trade talks were raised when the political declaration outlining Theresa May’s deal was published last year.

Some Tories were concerned sovereignty over waters could be sacrificed for a trade deal, while the SNP have repeatedly accused the UK Government of selling out fishermen.

The assurance was made after Mr Gove met the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation (SFF) when he returned to the city where he grew up.

Mr Gove argued that voting Tory was the only way to defeat the SNP and prevent Nicola Sturgeon from using the election as a mandate for a second independence referendum.

2020 :-

Michael Gove has accused Nicola Sturgeon of undermining Brexit fishing talks by giving the impression the industry supports EU demands for access to UK waters.

Mr Gove said the UK Government had been “disappointed” by discussions the Scottish Government, including Ms Sturgeon, had with EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier.

In a letter to External Affairs Secretary Michael Russell, Mr Gove, the Cabinet Office Minister, said the Scottish Government’s “political level contacts” with Mr Barnier had been “detrimental” to the UK’s stance on the issue.

Mr Gove suggested he Scottish Government’s intervention had given EU negotiators the idea that “Scottish stakeholders” were supportive of their demands, a position which, he said, had been “damaging” to UK and Scottish interests.


Richard Lochhead, the former Scottish fisheries minister who represents Moray, north-east Scotland, said: “Our fishermen will be gobsmacked by the irony of [Michael] Gove’s belated concerns for the fishing industry, given it was the Tories that negotiated such a poor deal for our fishermen in the first place while other nations got better deals.




Post Edited (Mon 07 Dec 17:47)
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 Re: Something fishy about Brexit?
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 7 Dec 18:53

DRoss must have sore fingers tweeting today, not about fishing but a second referendum vote!
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