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 Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 08:58

Think we all know that with our voting structure designed to ensure no one party wins a majority, voting for the same party for both the constituency and list is really a wasted list vote, assuming the the constituent mp wins.

So for an independence supporter like me who wants Scotland to take her own place in the world, and would normally just vote SNP plus SNP, it seems like my best options are:

SNP plus Greens
SNP plus ALBA

But no idea who’d actually be for the best?

I kinda like greens and would love to steer our rebuilding phase post COVID around green issues (the green recovery idea)...

...but with ALBA (read Alex salmond) and putting aside everything that’s just happened in the courts, might turn out to be the impetuous needed to get a referendum actually happening - or could he and his ego become a damaging influence in the mix????
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 09:12

Salmond in the box seat would be a disaster for the independence movement. If a referendum campaign it needs Nicola Sturgeon front and centre as she is the most charismatic and persuasive politician Scotland has seen in my lifetime. I think we know what the price of Salmond`s support would be.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 09:17

SNP constituency vote
ALBA list vote

2 truly Scottish parties fighting together for the same cause.

The SNP in my opinion have morphed into the English Labour Party in Scotland and if their feet aren't being held to the fire they will suffer the same fate.

ALBA are only standing on the list vote and are encouraging their supporters to vote SNP in the constituency vote

The Greens are standing in both constituency and list.

Imagine clearing out the dead wood yoon seatwarmers.

Exciting times ahead.
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 09:28

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sat 27 Mar 09:12

Salmond in the box seat would be a disaster for the independence movement. If a referendum campaign it needs Nicola Sturgeon front and centre as she is the most charismatic and persuasive politician Scotland has seen in my lifetime. I think we know what the price of Salmond`s support would be.


What has she achieved towards independence? I need convinced?

I see the present batch of SNP candidates as
Careerists and bench warmers.
Graeme Campbell for example
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 09:47

How about leading the snp to becoming the third biggest party in Westminster and having polls consistently over 50% in relation to independence. I believe under Salmond only ever one single poll went over 50%. Then two weeks after that poll under his leadership the yes side lost the referendum and lost it by quite some distance.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 09:57

One day Salmond announces he is going to continue to take legal action against the Scottish government. The next day he announces he is forming a party to achieve a `supermajority` for independence with the SNP at Holyrood. How can anyone trust him?

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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 10:03

The thing is this he hasn`t even formed this party. The party was founded in January by TV producer Laurie Flynn and registered by the electoral commission on the 8th of February.
I`m guessing he was hoping that Sturgeon would be found guilty of breaking the ministerial code and would have to resign. When that didn`t work out the way he and his supporters envisaged he had this set up as a back up plan.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 10:25

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sat 27 Mar 09:47

How about leading the snp to becoming the third biggest party in Westminster and having polls consistently over 50% in relation to independence. I believe under Salmond only ever one single poll went over 50%. Then two weeks after that poll under his leadership the yes side lost the referendum and lost it by quite some distance.


Don't think any of that is impressive Tbh.
Membership gone from 126,000 to 80 000 in the last 3 years.
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 10:30

Pardon my pique. I got here first, away and hijack someone else’s topic!

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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 10:41

80 thousand you say? That`s still 50 thousand more than it was the day Salmond resigned as leader back in 2014 when he lost the referendum.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 10:55

If you’re serious about independence then ALBA would appear to the best list vote; the DM and the DE have woken up to this fact and are toning down their Sturgeon vitriol in order to spread some in Salmond’s direction.

The Green Party has been witheringly described as the SNP’s Gardening Wing by George Galloway and has benefited in previous elections by collecting soft option votes under the list system. When I say ‘soft option’ I mean that it appears to represent a good, progressive cause and I doubt that anyone has ever been verbally abused or beaten up in the street for proclaiming their support for the Greens.

The Greens are likely to be the main losers if SNP voters use ALBA as their list vote. In theory this should be welcomed by the SNP since a ‘supermax’ majority strengthens their hand. But a supermax majority enabled by Alex Salmond might be regarded as a price too high to pay by his SNP opponents.

sammer
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: Jbob  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 11:23

I wouldn`t give Salmond the steam aff ma pihs

Bobs of the world unite
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 11:30

Quote:

Jbob, Sat 27 Mar 11:23

I wouldn`t give Salmond the steam aff ma pihs


Why would he want it ? He prefers Chinese shorts
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 11:33

I agree he’d be a good list vote and could provide another undeniable block vote for Indy. so could be the shot in the arm needed to get the referendum of the ground... but if/when the referendum comes - I’d just worry Salmond is not the person to win over the undecided and could turn people off the idea (as sad as that sounds because Indy is not about any one person)

However it’s undeniable he does come across as a bit self centred - I’d even go as far as to say a bit slimy/sleazy... so the concern he couldn’t help himself from becoming front and centre in the referendum and as said above, I think NS solely at the helm would deliver a a better response
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 11:39

What would be the point of having a `supermax` majority (an American term isn`t it) enabled by Salmond. With him heavily involved in any independence referendum, where he`d no doubt be sniping at Sturgeon constantly, the yes side would lose again.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 11:49

The problem I have with NS it appears she doesn't have the appetite for a indyref. Mandates have come and gone and independance is only rolled out just before an election. The tories talk more about independence than the SNP do.

We've even been removed from the EU without a fight and now that that has gone there's less to fight independence on.

The SNP need a party,not the Greens ,but one who's main objective is for independence for Scotland.

Post Edited (Sat 27 Mar 11:51)
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 11:53

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sat 27 Mar 11:39

What would be the point of having a `supermax` majority (an American term isn`t it) enabled by Salmond. With him heavily involved in any independence referendum, where he`d no doubt be sniping at Sturgeon constantly, the yes side would lose again.


Accountability, governments need a strong opposition.
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 12:07

"We`ve even been removed from the EU without a fight and now that that has gone there`s less to fight independence on."

No not being in the EU is one thing that gives the yes side something to campaign on. Now they can say (trying not to say we so I can try and keep objective) an independent Scotland can rejoin the EU with all its benefits. Being taken out the EU is the single biggest factor in the polls going over 50% consistently.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 12:18

ALBA Party has its first MP, Kenny MacAskill, and Corri Wilson exMP also join

KENNY’S LETTER EXPLAINING HIS REASONS TO HIS CONSTITUENCY.
Dear Friend
I am writing to advise you of a decision I have taken and provide you with my reasoning. I believe that this is the best way to achieve our goal of independence.
This coming election’s vital for our Nation. Brexit has happened with all the social and economic harm predicted. Worse is to come as trade deals are struck, harming our economy and threatening the NHS. Further austerity beckons as the economic costs of the pandemic are loaded on to those least able to afford it. Finally, the ability to mitigate the hardship and protect our communities is threatened by Westminsters attack on Holyrood powers.The need for Independence has never been greater, yet the opportunity to achieve it is has never been more favourable.
A Prime Minister who is rightly loathed leading an incompetent Government, acting as a kleptocracy. The risks said to apply to independence have been exposed, as EU membership has been lost, the strength of sterling has plummeted and the supposed benefits of global British prestige shown to be false.
Instead the risk is now in remaining in the UK as a nuclear arsenal is increased, a low wage economy  pursued, all as part of the delusion of a New Age of Empire. That’s why not only winning the election but winning it well’s essential. Boris Johnson must not be able to reject Scotlands democratic rights, Scottish democracy must prevail over a Westminster veto.  
To ensure that it’s essential to not only return an SNP Government but to deliver a supermajority for Independence. Thus ensuring that Scotland not London decides. At the moment the electoral system works against that. The regional list system sees SNP votes stack up votes but very few list SNP MSPs returned. Almost a million votes were cast for the SNP in 2016 but only 4 SNP list MSPs were returned, and in just 2 out of 8 regional constituencies. Instead 24 Tory and 21 Labour unionists took the seats.
In 6 Regional list areas no SNP MSP was elected.In Lothian which includes Midlothian and Musselburgh, 118,546 votes cast for the SNP returned no MSP and other regional constituencies were even starker. Even in South of Scotland which includes the rest of East Lothian 3 MSPs were succesful but a victory in the constituency this time, will see likely the loss of a list seat. It’s why I believe that support for an Independence List Party is essential.That can deliver the super majority for independence which will allow Holyrood to overide Londons dictat. Removing Unionist MSP are replacing them with those committed to Independence.Currently SNP rules don’t allow that and the HQ strategy opposes it. I think that’s a mistake and harms our cause. So, it is for that reason that after considerable thought, and after over 40 years, I am relinquishing my SNP membership, to support this final push for our Nations Independence.I will be joining the newly formed Alba Party to deliver that supermajority for independence through the list vote and which I believe’s essential to achieving our Nations Independence. Some members are doing likewise but it’s a personal decision for us all and I hope you’ll understand my reasoning.
My office will continue operating for constituents and I will continue serving as MP.  Along with other colleagues in Alba I will work with the SNP Group in Westminster in opposing the harm that’s being done to our land by the UK Government. I will likewise continue to work for Paul McLennans election as the constituency MSP at the coming election in May
Whether in the SNP, Alba Party or Yes Movement, Independence is our shared goal. Let us go forward and deliver it.        
Yours sincerely  
Kenny MacAskill MP

Post Edited (Sat 27 Mar 13:00)
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 14:04

Kenny hoping to hoover up another 65k a year to go along with the 81k he picks up from Westminster.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 14:24

Oh dear your going to have to come to terms with the fact the SNP are now going to be held to account by another Indy party in Scotland.
Until NS took over the management of the SNP there was NEVER another Independence Party challenging them.
There's at least three now , where's it all gone wrong ?
Try to forget the personalities and except change happens when folk are unhappy with the present.
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 14:34

You could just as well say these new independence parties are jumping on the bandwagon after the SNP has made it a real possibility. I`m not convinced by their motives.

Was MacAskill`s letter a `cut and paste` job? It`s barely literate. Yesterday`s launch wasn`t exactly professional either.

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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 15:00

Personally I`m quite pleased at some of the more toxic personalities have left or are going to leave the party.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 17:23

I’ll be giving my vote to the ALBA Party for sure. I have issues with some personalities but that also includes the SNP and for me, the overriding factor is getting independence now over party loyalty.
I also can’t stand the fact people like Murdo Fraser, Annie Wells etc etc get a well paid position in Holyrood despite being rejected multiple times by the public.
I’d rather have a pro Indy party in their place.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 17:41

SNP 1 Alba 2 for me.

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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 17:42

So what are Alba's policies? Anyone know?
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 17:58

Quote:

jake89, Sat 27 Mar 17:42

So what are Alba's policies? Anyone know?


What are SNP, Labour, Tory Green, Lib.Dem policy's ? Anyone know ?
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 19:14

Quote:

Tenruh, Sat 27 Mar 17:58

Quote:

jake89, Sat 27 Mar 17:42

So what are Alba's policies? Anyone know?


What are SNP, Labour, Tory Green, Lib.Dem policy's ? Anyone know ?


SNP

Green

Libs

Labour

Not going near the Tories.

It was a genuine question - what are the Alba party's plans for Scotland? Why should I vote for them?
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 19:58

Snp 1 and probably Greens 2 for me. I`ll have to look at the list for Fife to see if the snp candidates can benefit from my second vote and if not it`ll be the greens. Couldn`t ever see myself voting for the Albas.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 20:09

Quote:

jake89, Sat 27 Mar 19:14

Quote:

Tenruh, Sat 27 Mar 17:58

Quote:

jake89, Sat 27 Mar 17:42

So what are Alba's policies? Anyone know?


What are SNP, Labour, Tory Green, Lib.Dem policy's ? Anyone know ?


SNP

Green

Libs

Labour

Not going near the Tories.

It was a genuine question - what are the Alba party's plans for Scotland? Why should I vote for them?


They've got a website also, check it out..
You should have the party manifesto by next weekend

Post Edited (Sat 27 Mar 20:14)
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 20:11

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sat 27 Mar 19:58

Snp 1 and probably Greens 2 for me. I`ll have to look at the list for Fife to see if the snp candidates can benefit from my second vote and if not it`ll be the greens. Couldn`t ever see myself voting for the Albas.


Thought you might have toed the party line, surprised at that.
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 20:22

If voting for the Greens can stop the lawyer or the other one that is on the list for Alba being elected then that`s what I`ll do. You have two independence parties other than the snp. The Scottish Greens or Alba.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 20:25

There's very little on their site, Tenruh.

Hopefully there will be soon. I was interested to see they actually formed last month with a different leader. Salmond only took over recently.

I'm moderately in favour of independence but a massive questioner of the SNP but not sure about Alba. Hopefully they will provide a bit more information soon.

For clarity, I'm in no way suggesting the Tories or Labour would be any better!
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 21:23

The Tories have written to the LibDems and Labour suggesting that they work together.

I wonder if either have learned their lesson?


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Greens or ALBA, who should get my list vote?
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sat 27 Mar 22:34

Quote:

Wotsit, Sat 27 Mar 21:23

The Tories have written to the LibDems and Labour suggesting that they work together.

I wonder if either have learned their lesson?


Hope not cause they'll take a pounding with 2 on 3 independence parties now working together for the big prize
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