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 Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Mon 12 Apr 10:38

https://www.holyrood.com/editors-column/view,the-mendacity-of-hope

Rumours going around that N.S. is refusing to attend any TV leaders debates if ALBA are included.

LIST VOTE ALBA
CONSTITUENCY VOTE SNP
NO VOTE UNIONISTS
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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 12 Apr 10:42

Alas the TV companies can`t include every party that is standing candidates. Has to be a cut off point.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 12 Apr 10:54

Tenruh, you seem to pick up on every `rumour` and anti-SNP view you can find to promote Alba. I`m all for different political points of view being presented on here and I`m in favour of independence but your posts, and your repeated closing signature to them, must be verging on political propaganda which I understood was prohibited by the rules.

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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Mon 12 Apr 11:43

Quote:

wee eck, Mon 12 Apr 10:54

Tenruh, you seem to pick up on every `rumour` and anti-SNP view you can find to promote Alba. I`m all for different political points of view being presented on here and I`m in favour of independence but your posts, and your repeated closing signature to them, must be verging on political propaganda which I understood was prohibited by the rules.


Oh dear you seem upset. Thought this was a Political forum, anyway I'll carry on until told otherwise by a moderator
CONSTITUENCY VOTE SNP
LIST VOTE ALBA
NO VOTES UNIONISTS
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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 12 Apr 11:56

I`m just pointing out something that I don`t think applies to other posts on this Forum. Have you read the rules?

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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Mon 12 Apr 12:30

Quote:

wee eck, Mon 12 Apr 11:56

I`m just pointing out something that I don`t think applies to other posts on this Forum. Have you read the rules?


Read the rules ? Yeah probably 17 years ago when I joined, but thanks for reminding me to put it in my diary to re-read them for any updates

Hopefully you don't mind me saying this , but if your a bit sensitive to criticism or scrutiny of any particular party especially the one presently in power a political forum just might not be for you
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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 12 Apr 12:46

I think you`ll find that I said in my first post I was all for different points of view being presented on here. You obviously haven`t read the rules recently so here`s an extract :-

`Political propaganda or material will not be housed or promoted on the forum, which is only to be used as a talking shop for discussion`.

I suppose it`s all a matter of opinion as to what constitutes `propaganda`.

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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Mon 12 Apr 13:20

Well until admin inform me otherwise I'll continue on the assumption everything is OK with them.
Thanks for your concern

CONSTITUENCY VOTE SNP
LIST VOTE ALBA
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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par  
Date:   Mon 12 Apr 14:41

I see on that site that Willie Rennie is bumping his gums about the changing voting system...

Yes, you know, the one that was specifically put in place to make it very difficult for any party to get a majority?

Yes, the same system that gave:
Tories 42.8% of the regional seats (24) from 22.9% of the votes?
Labour 37.5% of the regional seats (21) from 19.1% of the votes?
Libs 1.8% of the regional seats (1) from 5.2% of the votes?
and
Greens 10.7% of the regional seats (6) from 6.6% of the votes?
SNP 7.1% of the regional seats (4) from 41.7% of the votes?

Summary
Unionists 82.1% of regional seats (46) from 47.2% of the vote
Independence 17.8% of regional seats (10) from 48.3% of the vote


The d`Hondt method has suited you lot extremely well until now, but as soon as there is a likelyhood of it not being heavily in your favour, it needs to change?

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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 12 Apr 14:55

There's propaganda on here all the time!
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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Mon 12 Apr 16:34

Of course there is, but when it's not palatable to your viewpoint you don't cry wolf.

For the avoidance of doubt, I've supported the SNP since1976 and been a member since 2014 leaving 2 days before the ALBA Party were formed
There's been a lot of disturbing things within the SNP since N.S. become the party leader and supported by the Chief Executive .

Things which have concerned me, include the membership losing control of the NEC,

The treatment of members especially Joanna Cherry who was bullied by the party youth,and given no support

The failed action against A.S.

No planning whatsoever towards another Referendum.

An Indy2 ringfenced fund ( £500 my contribution)) of £600,000 appears missing and the Chief executive refusing the Finance and audit group access to the accounts with all 3 members resigning immediately, one incidently a Chartered Accountant.

In my opinion the SNP are now on the exact same path that the Labour Party went down in Scotland.

I still feel that the SNP are the party in the best possible position to gain independence but I also feel there's to many MSPs enjoying the status but don't fancy the work involved to achieve it.

Just received another Green leaflet from
Mark Ruskell and once again no mention of Independence.

CONSTITUENCY VOTE SNP
LIST VOTE ALBA

Post Edited (Mon 12 Apr 16:57)
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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Mon 12 Apr 16:56

Surely with AMS you have to look at the system in totality, not one part in isolation?

For example, the SNP got 81% of the FPTP seats on 47% of the vote.

This over-representation was largely balanced out by under-representation from the list vote.

The problem in 2021 is the rather obvious attempt to game the system.

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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Mon 12 Apr 17:13

Quote:

McCaig`s Tower, Mon 12 Apr 16:56

Surely with AMS you have to look at the system in totality, not one part in isolation?

For example, the SNP got 81% of the FPTP seats on 47% of the vote.

This over-representation was largely balanced out by under-representation from the list vote.

The problem in 2021 is the rather obvious attempt to game the system.


Explain how it's gaming the system?

Gaming the system for me is when Murdo Fraser stands in both the constituency and list vote. Never gets in on the constituency but always gets in on the list. Nice wee earner that.Always rejected but sneaks in the back door. The SNP and ALBA party's are two different entities.
BTW the present system was devised by Labour and Libdem to ensure that there would never be an Independence coalition.
They'll probably be proved correct.
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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 12 Apr 17:15

Why would the Greens mention independence? Although they are supportive of it, there are issues more aligned with the values of the Green party generally. Things like improving the environment we live in, making public transport better and more appealing, moving away from oil and focussing on our renewables. Just like the SNP, they focus on multiple areas.
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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Mon 12 Apr 17:34

There's a few other things that interest the Greens but I'll leave you to do a bit of research for yourself...

Post Edited (Mon 12 Apr 17:34)
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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par  
Date:   Mon 12 Apr 18:07

Quote:

McCaig`s Tower, Mon 12 Apr 16:56

Surely with AMS you have to look at the system in totality, not one part in isolation?

For example, the SNP got 81% of the FPTP seats on 47% of the vote.

This over-representation was largely balanced out by under-representation from the list vote.

The problem in 2021 is the rather obvious attempt to game the system.


But he doesn’t want to change the whole system, just the bit that no longer suits

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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 12 Apr 19:51

Quote:

Tenruh, Mon 12 Apr 17:13

Quote:

McCaig`s Tower, Mon 12 Apr 16:56

Surely with AMS you have to look at the system in totality, not one part in isolation?

For example, the SNP got 81% of the FPTP seats on 47% of the vote.

This over-representation was largely balanced out by under-representation from the list vote.

The problem in 2021 is the rather obvious attempt to game the system.


Explain how it's gaming the system?

Gaming the system for me is when Murdo Fraser stands in both the constituency and list vote. Never gets in on the constituency but always gets in on the list. Nice wee earner that.Always rejected but sneaks in the back door. The SNP and ALBA party's are two different entities.
BTW the present system was devised by Labour and Libdem to ensure that there would never be an Independence coalition.
They'll probably be proved correct.


Agreed - irrespective of how the votes pan out there is no gaming of the system. We have an electoral system that isn't perfect but it far more representative than one down the road.

They won't be my choice but ALBA can stand on whatever policy platform they want and if they happen to pick up votes that increases an Indy majority then people have obviously voted for it. The Greens are still polling a few seats as well. The pro unionist parties can structure their candidates in any way they see fit too.
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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Tue 13 Apr 09:35

On the subject of political propaganda check out this campaign video from Alba 😂 Talk about cringe worthy.
https://youtu.be/WoRfxS5esRc

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 13 Apr 09:56

That's on a par with the WWII stuff that comes out from Brit Nats.
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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Tue 13 Apr 10:06

There lies our problem, it's all a laugh, the independence movement which should be coming together is fractured and everyone has fallen into the trap.

Scots fighting Scots,

we'll never achieve Independence because we're incaple of agreeing on anything.

THE UNIONISTS MUST BE HAVING A LAUGH
JOB DONE
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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 13 Apr 10:40

I've got to be honest mate I wasn't being funny and I'm genuinely a bit embarrassed by that and if Farage had put out something like that going on about WWII and Brexit I'd probably have been livid at the reference.

The video promotes unity whilst at the same time you've got Salmond supporters in the media tearing into the SNP to try and secure votes for ALBA. The two positions don't really jive. It's fair enough that anyone can start a political party and if they disagree with the SNP that's their perogative but it's not a trap.
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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Tue 13 Apr 12:48

Quote:

londonparsfan, Tue 13 Apr 10:40

I've got to be honest mate I wasn't being funny and I'm genuinely a bit embarrassed by that and if Farage had put out something like that going on about WWII and Brexit I'd probably have been livid at the reference.

The video promotes unity whilst at the same time you've got Salmond supporters in the media tearing into the SNP to try and secure votes for ALBA. The two positions don't really jive. It's fair enough that anyone can start a political party and if they disagree with the SNP that's their perogative but it's not a trap.

You'll probably enjoy this one

https://wingsoverscotland.com/if-youre-still-not-scared/
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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Tue 13 Apr 13:57

Lux – I made no comment about Willie Rennie’s remarks so my point stands. As far as I can see Willie was advocating STV with multi-member constituencies, which should be no surprise since this has been Lib Dem policy since forever.

If one side or another wants to manipulate the system to get 75% of the seats on 50% of the vote, then that is gaming the system, in my view.

I think the Co-operative Party tried to stand on the list a few elections ago, but was not permitted so I don’t think it is true the so-called “Unionist” parties can structure their candidates in any way they please.

The “back-door” as described by Tenruh is one Alex Salmond seems happy to use and one Nicola Sturgeon was happy to use on more than one occasion (and presumably would be again, since she is on the list for Glasgow). If Murdo Fraser were not standing in a constituency would his election via the list be more acceptable? And if a party were to get, say, 20% of the vote, would it be unfair to expect them to get approximately 20% of those elected?

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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par  
Date:   Tue 13 Apr 14:24

Summary
Unionists 82.1% of regional seats (46) from 47.2% of the vote
Independence 17.8% of regional seats (10) from 48.3% of the vote

In my view, the system was deliberately `gamed` from the start.

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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 13 Apr 14:26

Quote:

Tenruh, Tue 13 Apr 12:48

Quote:

londonparsfan, Tue 13 Apr 10:40

I've got to be honest mate I wasn't being funny and I'm genuinely a bit embarrassed by that and if Farage had put out something like that going on about WWII and Brexit I'd probably have been livid at the reference.

The video promotes unity whilst at the same time you've got Salmond supporters in the media tearing into the SNP to try and secure votes for ALBA. The two positions don't really jive. It's fair enough that anyone can start a political party and if they disagree with the SNP that's their perogative but it's not a trap.

You'll probably enjoy this one

https://wingsoverscotland.com/if-youre-still-not-scared/


That ones just weird.
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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par  
Date:   Tue 13 Apr 17:18

"Unite the Clans" - LOL whit?

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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Tue 13 Apr 17:18

Sturgeon`s 1984 Big Brother Political screech is a cert for mentalist propaganda of the election. And there`s weeks to go yet.

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 Re: Holyrood Mandys election thoughts
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 13 Apr 18:35

Yeah it's not likely to win over many voters that one although let's be honest most of them are pash.
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