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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 28 Feb 18:46
Fantastic to see it looks like it`s agreed that N.Ireland will have access to both the EU and UK markets. Really great that it`s appreciated this is the best position to be in.
The irony of this is surely not going to go unnoticed?
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 28 Feb 20:37
Won`t the DUP object as it means NI is being treated differently from the rest of the UK?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 28 Feb 22:44
The Tories don`t give two hoots about the DUP anymore.
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Wed 1 Mar 04:57
Would be very curious to see what would happen if Holyrood properly pushed for Scotland to have the same deal as NI. Granted, it would probably not be allowed as NI has performed rather better economically than elsewhere because of the Protocol which is an inconvenient truth for many a Tory or Brexiteer.
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Wed 1 Mar 07:24
Quote:
hurricane_jimmy, Wed 1 Mar 04:57
Would be very curious to see what would happen if Holyrood properly pushed for Scotland to have the same deal as NI. Granted, it would probably not be allowed as NI has performed rather better economically than elsewhere because of the Protocol which is an inconvenient truth for many a Tory or Brexiteer.
The Scottish Government could have pushed for the same deal from the day of the result both voted to stay in the EU .Was it beyond them to see the benefits that NI will now enjoy that Scotland won`t.
So along with that capitulation and dividing the independence movement what actually has Sturgeon achieved in her time in charge?
Post Edited (Wed 01 Mar 07:38)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 1 Mar 08:05
My recollection is that the SG did press for Scotland to stay in the single market. They also sought to be involved in negotiations with the EU and argued for a `soft` Brexit. We don`t have the Good Friday Agreement with another EU nation of course to help our case.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 1 Mar 08:17
Quote:
Tenruh, Wed 1 Mar 07:24
Quote:
hurricane_jimmy, Wed 1 Mar 04:57
Would be very curious to see what would happen if Holyrood properly pushed for Scotland to have the same deal as NI. Granted, it would probably not be allowed as NI has performed rather better economically than elsewhere because of the Protocol which is an inconvenient truth for many a Tory or Brexiteer.
The Scottish Government could have pushed for the same deal from the day of the result both voted to stay in the EU .Was it beyond them to see the benefits that NI will now enjoy that Scotland won`t.
So along with that capitulation and dividing the independence movement what actually has Sturgeon achieved in her time in charge?
The Scottish Government has consistently opposed the changes, including two weeks when it opposed the bill to remove EU law, and pushed for a better deal. The fact is that the UK Government have been forced to do something in N.Ireland simply because it`s joined to an EU member.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Wed 1 Mar 08:49
Does the "New" agreement give the citizens of Northern Ireland freedom of movement?
My understanding was that if you were born on the island you were already entitled to an Irish (EU) passport?
That`ll upset a lot of flag s*aggers as they try to circumnavigate the 90 day rule!🤔🤣🇪🇸
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Wed 1 Mar 09:17
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Wed 1 Mar 08:49
Does the "New" agreement give the citizens of Northern Ireland freedom of movement?
My understanding was that if you were born on the island you were already entitled to an Irish (EU) passport?
That`ll upset a lot of flag s*aggers as they try to circumnavigate the 90 day rule!🤔🤣🇪🇸
O ver 200 mps have joint UK/Irish passports
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Wed 1 Mar 09:24
Quote:
jake89, Wed 1 Mar 08:17
Quote:
Tenruh, Wed 1 Mar 07:24
Quote:
hurricane_jimmy, Wed 1 Mar 04:57
Would be very curious to see what would happen if Holyrood properly pushed for Scotland to have the same deal as NI. Granted, it would probably not be allowed as NI has performed rather better economically than elsewhere because of the Protocol which is an inconvenient truth for many a Tory or Brexiteer.
The Scottish Government could have pushed for the same deal from the day of the result both voted to stay in the EU .Was it beyond them to see the benefits that NI will now enjoy that Scotland won`t.
So along with that capitulation and dividing the independence movement what actually has Sturgeon achieved in her time in charge?
The Scottish Government has consistently opposed the changes, including two weeks when it opposed the bill to remove EU law, and pushed for a better deal. The fact is that the UK Government have been forced to do something in N.Ireland simply because it`s joined to an EU member.
Sorry Jake but you`ll have to simplify
that for me I don`t understand what you`re saying
Scotland had every right to fight to stay in the EU, I know it was a UK vote , but it was setup to favour England.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 1 Mar 09:31
Well, it was set up in favour of the voters rather than England. It just happens that the majority of Brexiteers are in England.
In terms of the Scottish Government, they have repeatedly highlighted the (negative) impact on Scotland and requested to be involved in the Brexit bill. The UK Government chose not to engage with Scottish Government (or any devolved government).
N.Ireland hasn`t requested a special deal. This is just to resolve the issue of N.Ireland being joined onto an EU member. Scotland isn`t joined to an EU member so has to suck it up and take whatever the UK Government decides.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Wed 1 Mar 09:56
This is not about NI being joined onto an EU member, it’s about avoiding a hard border to preserve the hard won peace agreement.
If England was joined onto an Indy EU Scotland there would be a hard border as dictated by the EU. Sturgeon herself admitted that.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 1 Mar 12:02
Quote:
Parboiled, Wed 1 Mar 09:56
This is not about NI being joined onto an EU member, it’s about avoiding a hard border to preserve the hard won peace agreement.
If England was joined onto an Indy EU Scotland there would be a hard border as dictated by the EU. Sturgeon herself admitted that.
So it IS about them being joined to an EU member then? Ignore the GFA and what it`s about is reducing issues with trade between two neighbouring countries where people regularly swap sides for work. It would be exactly the same for Scotland and England.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Wed 1 Mar 12:17
Ignore the GFA..oh dear. If it wasn’t for that there would an EU border over there.
If you don’t think there would be check points on our border take it up with the current FM. She said it.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 1 Mar 12:25
Yes, but even without the GFA it wouldn`t be desirable to have a hard border between two countries that are so closely linked. A smart person would have considered that properly as part of any initial "deal". It`s the same scenario you describe around an independent Scotland in the EU. The only difference is the UK exited without a plan whilst Scotland is being asked for all this information up front before a vote is even held.
The simplest solution would be to rename the EU "The British Empire" and rejoin it under the pretence that we run it rather than Germany or France.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 1 Mar 12:53
`If you don’t think there would be check points on our border take it up with the current FM. She said it.`
I thought you didn`t believe anything she said?
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Wed 1 Mar 13:10
To answer question above…
If you are born in Northern Ireland, you are entitled to be British (citizen with uk passport), Irish (Irish citizen with eu passport) or both
I don’t think Ireland is in the Schengen area anyway, but with an Irish passport you will have freedom of movement, but you’d need to show some form of Irish citizen ID to get into Schengen to enjoy freedom of movement in other EU countries
There is a common travel area agreement between uk and Ireland, so anyone from uk can go into Ireland and work, live etc without needing visas or passports - but that wouldn’t extend to mainland Europe
Post Edited (Wed 01 Mar 13:12)
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Wed 1 Mar 13:18
Anyway, I’m very keen to see what `reason` the DUP come to with next for not returning to stormont with a sinn fèin first minister
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Topic Originator: auldpar
Date: Wed 1 Mar 17:05
Interesting comment in Sunday`s Observer - "The DUP has a limited vocabulary that rarely extends beyond `no` and `never`." Good luck with that agreement!
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Wed 1 Mar 17:06
They wont like the sandwich fillings!
Sorry, they`ve used that excuse already. 🤔😲
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 1 Mar 17:34
Quote:
DBP, Wed 1 Mar 13:10
To answer question above…
If you are born in Northern Ireland, you are entitled to be British (citizen with uk passport), Irish (Irish citizen with eu passport) or both
I don’t think Ireland is in the Schengen area anyway, but with an Irish passport you will have freedom of movement, but you’d need to show some form of Irish citizen ID to get into Schengen to enjoy freedom of movement in other EU countries
There is a common travel area agreement between uk and Ireland, so anyone from uk can go into Ireland and work, live etc without needing visas or passports - but that wouldn’t extend to mainland Europe
Genuine question, but surely that agreement between the UK and Ireland is null and void as effectively it becomes an agreement between UK and Europe that UK citizens can live and work in Ireland/Europe?
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Wed 1 Mar 18:17
Ireland not in mainland Europe and not in Schengen, so to get from Ireland to mainland Europe you need to pass border control
There’s no route for an individual to go from uk via Ireland to Shengen without crossing border control
That common travel arrangement works both ways btw so Irish people can come here, live, work, vote etc
It was actually reconfirmed post Brexit as it predates the EU
Edited to say that should Scotland every gain indy, this could easily apply to Scotland and rUK (plus jersey, Isle off man etc that is also covered by the common travel arrangement)
For info https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/common-travel-area-guidance
Post Edited (Wed 01 Mar 18:23)
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