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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sat 1 Aug 18:58
Jack Charlton’s son John has described facing a £200,000 inheritance tax issue related to his father’s 1966 World Cup winners’ medal. HMRC has apparently valued the memorabilia and said it’ll cost him £200,000 for the pleasure of keeping the medal. The medal has been handed back to his mother to avoid paying the inheritance tax until they can find a resolution.
My resolution is that inheritance tax goes in the bin. I find it all round disgusting.
COYP
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Sat 1 Aug 19:14
That’s outrageous
I’m with you in Inheritance tax, if something is mine, I should be able to give it to whomever I like without the government sticking their nose in and trying to somehow take some of it.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 1 Aug 19:16
Thought inheritance tax was on anything over £300k?
Does that mean they are valuing the medal at £1.3m?
Bit steep…..
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sat 1 Aug 19:24
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sat 1 Aug 19:16
Thought inheritance tax was on anything over £300k?
Does that mean they are valuing the medal at £1.3m?
Bit steep…..
That’s what I thought so I actually checked how they value it which has lead me to more questions but I’ve not had the time to dig deeper.
So they’ve got to the £200,000 by using what it would be valued at on the open market and the open market valuation come from pervious sales inflation and a percentage of variability.
Alan Balls medal sold in 2022 for £200,000 at the hammer but that’s £252,000ish incl commissions/fees etc.
Nobby Stiles sold for £160,000 at the hammer.
So maybe an overall value of £200,000 is about right but I’m wondering why he’s paying £200,000. I know different items get different classifications so I don’t know if they want the full value of somethings and not other things or how it all works. Thankfully not had to deal with any of it yet.
COYP
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sat 1 Aug 20:09
Would imagine that the value would be added to the total estate ie house, contents etc.
A friend of mine has recently paid HMRC £90K on his great uncle`s estate!
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 1 Aug 20:23
You`re allowed £500k assuming you leave your home to your kids. £1m if you`re a married couple.
The problem with something like a medal is that it`s both priceless and worthless. Unfortunately, it does have a value on the open market but his son would never wish to sell it. Jack Charlton should have gifted it to him many years ago even unofficially to avoid this.
Rules is rules and loads of people get caught out. We have an aging population and someone`s got to pay the care bills.
ETA - his mum can gift it to her son and hope she clings on long enough for it to be exempt. Alternatively, claim it was misplaced. Amazing how these things can get lost...
Post Edited (Sat 01 Aug 20:25)
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 1 Aug 20:44
Yes I`m sure his son would never wish to sell it.....
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Sat 1 Aug 21:17
That`s why you sign it over to your kids before you kick the bucket...be smart and consult your solicitors!
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sat 1 Aug 22:55
What legislation is this under? I`m not aware of any current inheritance tax mechanism that would tax £200k inheritance.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 1 Aug 23:47
Quote:
Wotsit, Sat 1 Aug 22:55
What legislation is this under? I`m not aware of any current inheritance tax mechanism that would tax £200k inheritance.
Assuming his dad left him the medal in his will, it must be worth close to £1m, resulting in a tax of £200k on this "windfall". If it`s gone to his mum, she should gift it to her son now. The amount of tax due reduces for each year it`s his and becomes £0 after 7 years.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sun 2 Aug 07:07
Well I hope he lives for at least 7 years or he has created another tax risk..... and his mum (and not just for tax reasons, obviosuly).
The reporting on this story can`t be correct, and the wording on his statement is ambiguous.... I`ll leave you to determine if you think that`s intention or not.
This always strikes me as being unfair in that those with less can`t perhaps afford the advice they need and, even if it was given and followed, we`ll just see more stories of "I gifted money to my family but then they just stopped talking to me because they were only in it for the money".
This isn`t a problem that`s going to be easy to solve. But if they can send out health reminders to 50 year olds, it would sensible to do something similar with tax to avoid being accused of not happily taking folks` money without making them fully aware of stuff.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 2 Aug 09:40
Irrespective of how HMRC work out what he’s to pay or how much or how little someone has to pay I genuinely believe 100% death tax need to be abolished. I think it’s so disgusting that we’re discussing the value of a medal so that HMRC can get their own wee bit.
They literally tax us from birth into the afterlife.
On a personal level it can have huge impacts on someone’s life (see poster above - £90k) while it raises not a lot on a national scale.
It raises £8billion ish a year
The UK raises around £800-900billion a year in total.
broader UK public-sector receipts including non-HMRC sources such as council tax, business rates, and other income are higher around £1.1–1.2 trillion.
Yeah but let’s take away people’s opportunities to help their or receive help from their loved ones for arguably less than 1% of tax income.
COYP
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sun 2 Aug 09:42
Sorry...... where is the 100% death tax?
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 2 Aug 10:00
Quote:
ipswichpar, Sun 2 Aug 09:42
Sorry...... where is the 100% death tax?
“I genuinely believe 100%, death tax needs to be abolished”
Not “100% death tax”
I really should have put a comma in there
COYP
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sun 2 Aug 10:43
Sorry, I should have been a bit smarter about what you obviously meant!
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 2 Aug 10:44
My fault 🤦🏻♂️😂
COYP
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sun 2 Aug 11:27
What is the ideological argument in favour of mollycoddling the offspring of some people because they happened to have competent parents?
Doesn`t inherited wealth create weak people who don`t know the value of hard work because they know they`ll be handed everything on a plate through the work of others?
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 2 Aug 11:35
Quote:
Wotsit, Sun 2 Aug 11:27
What is the ideological argument in favour of mollycoddling the offspring of some people because they happened to have competent parents?
Doesn`t inherited wealth create weak people who don`t know the value of hard work because they know they`ll be handed everything on a plate through the work of others?
I wonder what you’d say if you couldn’t inherit from your family unless you paid £200,000.
It probably wouldn’t be that ☝🏻
It’s not about mollycoddling the rich. It’s about families being able to build up assets and capital to pass on to their kids so that can continue to grow the assets and capital to pass onto their kids. It creates inter-generational wealth that could raise a families financial status.
Instead an inheritance tax creates further obstacles and keeps the rich, rich and the poor with less opportunities.
COYP
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sun 2 Aug 11:49
Quote:
Wotsit, Sun 2 Aug 11:27
What is the ideological argument in favour of mollycoddling the offspring of some people because they happened to have competent parents?
Doesn`t inherited wealth create weak people who don`t know the value of hard work because they know they`ll be handed everything on a plate through the work of others?
Similarly, but in the opposite direction, how many people would think "Jack that, the state will take everything anyway so what`s the point?".
One of my biggest drivers is working hard to leave something decent for my kids.
It hasn`t stopped either of my kids working very hard to follow their own dreams.
It simply feels like jealousy to me.... many folk are much richer than me...good for them. Some people won the lottery this week, I didnt..... good for them.
Folk get taxed when the money comes in. I think there should be an element of tax on the way out to ensure that there`s funded quality social care when people need it. But to take everything off everyone is absolutely bonkers..... and good luck trying to get elected on that one.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sun 2 Aug 14:31
Thought inheritance tax kicked in at £325K?🤔
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Sun 2 Aug 14:35
Just crazy that HMRC are desperate to get their cut on something like a medal.
I`m quite lucky in that I`m a dual national and Sweden has no inheritance tax, so I can take advantage of that. Dad and Sister are both lawyers and the best way to avoid is to place things in trusts or gift them to your children before death.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sun 2 Aug 16:33
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Sun 2 Aug 14:31
Thought inheritance tax kicked in at £325K?🤔
Technically it does, but if you leave your house to kids or grandkids, there is a nil-rate applied to the next £175k per part of a couple which means it is tax free for the first 500k for a single person or 1m for a married couple.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sun 2 Aug 18:13
Quote:
ipswichpar, Sun 2 Aug 16:33
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Sun 2 Aug 14:31
Thought inheritance tax kicked in at £325K?🤔
Technically it does, but if you leave your house to kids or grandkids, there is a nil-rate applied to the next £175k per part of a couple which means it is tax free for the first 500k for a single person or 1m for a married couple.
Is that after your Care Home fees are deducted?😡
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sun 2 Aug 22:17
At this point we seem to get into a daft circular argument.
If we want a national care service that`s equivalent to the health service. It is going to cost money to provide. So the model can charge folk for a weekly usage. Some people will have lower cost if they don`t need it or if they die relatively early. Or everybody can pay into a pot either as part of general taxation or as a tax on estate after death.
Frankly, it is bonkers to expect that everything will be free without it having to be paid for. The same people would be complaining if they didn`t have a triple lock pension, they weren`t getting nice new disability cars and free NHS health care. This money doesn`t grow on trees, and the younger generation that have got poorer pensions and can`t afford a place to live will be paying to cover care for generally asset rich folk which is clearly not right.
The sooner we have this national debate and folk take the time to actually understand the economics the better.
There are of course options to a fully free and fully funded care service (which will cost many tens of billions per annum) which are cheaper, for example charging until the value of an individuals assets but to a higher cut off at which point it gets cheaper or becomes free.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 3 Aug 08:17
We`re not getting a national care service in Scotland. Some guy called Anas Sarwar and his party objected to it. Not sure what happened to that guy...
The problem with IHT is it typically hits the middle. The people with less don`t hit the threshold, the people with most find loopholes.
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Mon 3 Aug 08:38
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Sun 2 Aug 18:13
Quote:
ipswichpar, Sun 2 Aug 16:33
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Sun 2 Aug 14:31
Thought inheritance tax kicked in at £325K?🤔
Technically it does, but if you leave your house to kids or grandkids, there is a nil-rate applied to the next £175k per part of a couple which means it is tax free for the first 500k for a single person or 1m for a married couple.
Is that after your Care Home fees are deducted?😡
Sorry, but I refuse to pay for a wealthy pensioner to be cared for.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Mon 3 Aug 10:31
What about a wealthy middle aged person who has cancer or has difficulty living without a degree of care after a stroke?
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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