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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Wed 20 Jun 12:24
Good to see another country finally seeing sense. Shame it's only cannabis they've legalised.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Wed 20 Jun 12:30
Yeah science be damned.
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Topic Originator: WORST
Date: Wed 20 Jun 13:04
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Wed 20 Jun 13:17
The vast majority of science supports the decriminalisation of most drugs.
Alcohol, tobacco, caffeine and sugar are often cited has having a larger negative impact on the human body than the recreational use of a lot of drugs.
Teresa May was rumoured to have intervened on a report outlining how little negative impact many drugs have as it doesn't fit with the druggies bad narrative.
From memory Richie last time you put something up in drugs it was a female conservative blogger trying to blame all sorts of crime and society collapsing on the recreational use on cannabis but as we worked through it the entire article was false apart from more homeless people had gravitated to whichever state had decrimilised it.
I think the Portugal example I gave back then is still pretty relevant not to mention the Dutch way too (although that's a bit different).
Stevie I think I heard something similar years ago (I'm talking over 20) but I think when you look at all the modern day evidence the Government can't get away with crap like that as an excuse. Folk would just get fired if they couldn't work in much the same way if you come back steam boats from a lunch time sesh in the pub.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Wed 20 Jun 13:30
I wasn't talking about the social impact of drugs LPF,just the long term effects on the brain in particular memory formation and the processing of information.An 18 year old brain isn't fully developed.Trudeau is a fool.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Wed 20 Jun 13:36
From everything I've read I'm not sure if science does agree with you mate. It's the same as a lot of what you put in your body, if you go ott you run the risk of problems.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Wed 20 Jun 14:43
Current science says the brain isn't fully developed till 25.Well done Justin.Get em hooked at an early age and develop a number of well documented physical and mental problems.If his goal is to disrupt a society and burden the health services even more,he has succeeded.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Wed 20 Jun 14:55
Same would apply to alcohol then surely?
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Wed 20 Jun 14:57
Yes it would.Look at the burden that places on the health service.Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's without risks,none of which Trudeau highlighted.
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Topic Originator: cambozpar
Date: Wed 20 Jun 17:10
Yeah because if it was still illegal, people under the age of 25 without fully developed brains who want to smoke weed wouldn't do it eh?
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Wed 20 Jun 17:38
Sure,there will always be folks who want to do it/try it.Why would you actively encourage it though when the risks are clear?You have to conclude Trudeau doesn't give a toss about certain portions of his citizens.
Post Edited (Wed 20 Jun 17:38)
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Wed 20 Jun 17:51
The cannabis debates on here are utterly hilarious.
Taking science over a natural creation of your God richie...tsk tsk.
I'm sorry but your approach to this subject is childlike.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Wed 20 Jun 17:53
I thought you would be against any govt doping up it's citizens Rasta.Maybe not.
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Topic Originator: parsfan
Date: Wed 20 Jun 18:14
Happy with science when you think it supports your right wing agenda, aye? Not so when contradicts your stone age beliefs.
I'd have thought you'd be in favour of people exercising free will and not criminalising them for it, but is that only for things that harm others?
Are the Canadians encouraging it, or just legalising it? Big difference.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Wed 20 Jun 18:18
Science is science.Nothing to do with politics or belief.
Free will?Hardly.More like govt doping for maximum compliance.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Wed 20 Jun 18:34
Quote:
richie5401, Wed 20 Jun 17:53
I thought you would be against any govt doping up it's citizens Rasta.Maybe not.
Only the government won't be "doping" anyone up...like I said...childlike.
Your God messed up big time leaving a medicinal plant around eh.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Wed 20 Jun 23:42
Yeah they aren't into controlling the folks at all.A clear minded,sober population just might start asking questions.
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Topic Originator: shrek par
Date: Wed 20 Jun 23:59
Cracking move by trudeau, having seen the mass exodus from seattle to canada at the weekend , this move can only increase tourism in the southwest corner of Canada. As a point of interest there are 5 car valet businesses just over the canadian border from blaine all of which have sniffer dogs to stop folk getting busted after their weekend on the grass.
Double standards richie, can't have your cake and eat it.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Thu 21 Jun 00:19
Oh yeah i'm sure every canadian citizen is delighted.It's not like the don't have a sense of what might happen.Take a look at Colorado or California.
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Topic Originator: SergioDuarte
Date: Thu 21 Jun 01:11
Man who believes in sky fairy rages against plant that sky fairy gave to the earth.
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Topic Originator: SergioDuarte
Date: Thu 21 Jun 01:49
What a lot of absolute sh*te pal
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Topic Originator: WORST
Date: Thu 21 Jun 06:04
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Thu 21 Jun 06:52
Quote:
richie5401, Wed 20 Jun 23:42
Yeah they aren't into controlling the folks at all.A clear minded,sober population just might start asking questions.
Historically it's the clear minded sober populations that are the more easily controlled.
You really are a child on this subject...i see you are too scared to acknowledge my point about your God putting a medicinal plant everywhere...you're a coward in your God's name Richie.
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Topic Originator: TKF
Date: Thu 21 Jun 08:11
Has anyone ever seen Richie directly respond to any of the points other posters make? Seems to go off a new direction in every comment he makes. Almost as if he is having a discussion with only himself and disregarding the views of others without thought...
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Thu 21 Jun 09:14
Quote:
richie5401, Thu 21 Jun 00:19
Oh yeah i'm sure every canadian citizen is delighted.It's not like the don't have a sense of what might happen.Take a look at Colorado or California.
I did preempt that in my first post. None of the things claimed to be bad are actually really happening when you look at the official figures regarding crime etc.
Portugal decriminalized all drugs years ago and they've also seen reductions in use/aids cases and drug related crime since they made the move:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Thu 21 Jun 10:15
Genuine question, be gentle, no wiseguy stuff please.
What is RECREATIONAL cannabis as opposed to plain bog standard cannabis ?
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Topic Originator: parsfan
Date: Thu 21 Jun 10:35
Quote:
veteraneastender, Thu 21 Jun 10:15
Genuine question, be gentle, no wiseguy stuff please.
What is RECREATIONAL cannabis as opposed to plain bog standard cannabis ?
They're the same thing. It's as opposed to medicinal cannabis.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Thu 21 Jun 11:58
A well reasoned argument SD;)
I answered the question,Rasta,Genesis 3:18.Now do you really think offering a healthy 18 year old the option of getting high is really looking out for his best interests?Trudeau thinks so.He's a real,genuine carer.
We have had this discussion before LPF about the skyrocketing homelessness rate in Colorado and Calif.Interesting how the rate began to increase with legalisation.
No question was avoided TKF.Perhaps you didn't like the answer.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Thu 21 Jun 14:06
Quote:
richie5401, Thu 21 Jun 11:58
A well reasoned argument SD;)
I answered the question,Rasta,Genesis 3:18.Now do you really think offering a healthy 18 year old the option of getting high is really looking out for his best interests?Trudeau thinks so.He's a real,genuine carer.
We have had this discussion before LPF about the skyrocketing homelessness rate in Colorado and Calif.Interesting how the rate began to increase with legalisation.
No question was avoided TKF.Perhaps you didn't like the answer.
You really don't understand cannabis at all do you?
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Thu 21 Jun 14:09
..and just for the record i think there is some merits to medications that have high levels of CBD and they should be come with a recommendation from an M.D.However that is not what is being offered here.THC is being foisted on an unsuspecting generation that has no medical need.
Commercials are already being run all over the U.S."don't drive baked"
This will not end well.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Thu 21 Jun 14:10
I do understand it.as i said there seem to be merits to CBD.That isn't the issue proposed in Canada though.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Thu 21 Jun 14:19
It was due to homeless people migrating to areas where they weren't going to be criminalized.
Cannabis decreminilisation didn't generate more homelessness overall but it did change were they moved to.
Moves like that also attract tourists and in some cases people looking for jobs.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Thu 21 Jun 14:21
To the drink drive point none of the countries that have legalised cannabis have experienced spikes in drug driving.
Most users are responsible and view it the same way as drink driving.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Thu 21 Jun 14:23
Which in turn will lead to more people moving from said states to avoid that.California is having a pretty large exodus of it's middle class.Soon the super rich and the super poor will be all that is left.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Thu 21 Jun 14:26
It's probably too early to tell.It might though if you open it to a whole new teenage market.Why would any country want it's citizens high on THC?What would be the actual benefit?
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Topic Originator: General Zod
Date: Thu 21 Jun 15:02
Aye, just look at Holland. Easily the worst country on earth. Liberal and forward thinking scumbags. It’s all weeds fault!
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Thu 21 Jun 15:13
California is one of the most expensive places to live in the US so it's not surprising some people are leaving. I don't think that's really connected to legalizing cannabis.
On the point around why would they legalise drugs there's a long list of reasons why:
1) the legal status doesn't stop users using
2) brings in tax revenue
3) relieves pressures on policing and allows focus on more important areas
4) brings in proper standards so users are less at risk from dodgy drugs
5) addicts are more likely to seek help when the stigma and risk of being criminalised whilst a user are removed
6) reduces profits for organised crime if the supply chain is managed correctly
7) improved health as access to clean equipment is available where needed which also means less people dying/less spread of disease so there are reductions on the health services
8) proper education allows people to make better informed decisions about how to use drugs safely which again in turn helps keep people alive.
9) drug testing at events becomes more prevalent so people can check the quality of their drugs which again helps keep people alive
There's probably a few that I've missed but there's often very little negative impact from decriminilsing drugs.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Thu 21 Jun 15:59
So the answer is legalise everything and let the individual decide what he/she want to put in his/her body?
I'm not sure many doctors would agree with that proposal.
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Topic Originator: WORST
Date: Thu 21 Jun 16:11
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Thu 21 Jun 16:26
If there is some medical benefit to certain drugs and hopefully they are largely outweighed by the side effects then great.
That isn't what is being proposed though.
I agree worst.They are killers and the producers knew this decades ago.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Thu 21 Jun 16:30
There's no good reason not to decriminalise cannabis.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Thu 21 Jun 16:43
Sure there is.Exposing healthy male/female teenagers to THC.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Thu 21 Jun 16:46
They're exposed to it already. All it means now is that they'll get decent quality stuff, pay tax and possibly most importantly not run the risk of a criminal record.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Thu 21 Jun 16:54
Cool.Although you did leave out developing a physical dependence.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Thu 21 Jun 17:03
Quote:
richie5401, Thu 21 Jun 16:54
Cool.Although you did leave out developing a physical dependence.
Physical dependency?
Sorry but you are a child on this subject.
Your stupid is so bad it hurts.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Thu 21 Jun 17:04
Again that's not likely to be impacted by the legal status of the drug though.
Some interesting stats on dependency rates contained in the following article:
"The researchers found that of those who had tried marijuana at least once, about 9 percent eventually fit a diagnosis of cannabis dependence. The corresponding figure for alcohol was 15 percent; for cocaine, 17 percent; for heroin, 23 percent; and for nicotine, 32 percent. So although marijuana may be addictive for some, 91 percent of those who try it do not get hooked."
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-truth-about-pot/
In addition to a comparatively low addiction rate, use rates show a slight spike after decriminalization then fall back to rates either similar or lower than when drugs were illegal.
As I said above more addicts also seek help for their addiction when drugs are legal based on data from countries who've decriminilised drugs.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 21 Jun 17:11
The big tobacco firms will be rubbing their hands in glee.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Thu 21 Jun 17:20
Quote:
Rastapari, Thu 21 Jun 17:03
Quote:
richie5401, Thu 21 Jun 16:54
Cool.Although you did leave out developing a physical dependence.
Physical dependency?
Sorry but you are a child on this subject.
Your stupid is so bad it hurts.
Sometimes I just think likes to argue just to be contrary.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Thu 21 Jun 17:42
So we have go to the point where we now believe drugs cannot create dependency.Wow.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Thu 21 Jun 17:57
Quote:
richie5401, Thu 21 Jun 17:42
So we have go to the point where we now believe drugs cannot create dependency.Wow.
You do not understand marijuana or dependency.
Wow.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Thu 21 Jun 18:05
In what respect?I'm not immune to error.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Thu 21 Jun 18:08
Nobody on the thread has said dependency won't exist but it's less addictive than sugar to put that in context.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Thu 21 Jun 18:10
Excess sugar is not good.It generally won't change your perception/reaction time though.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Thu 21 Jun 18:11
Quote:
richie5401, Thu 21 Jun 18:05
In what respect?I'm not immune to error.
You come from a purely puritanical stance, you have no experience, no knowledge and no will at all to research.
Your argument tells me you don't even understand your own religion, not a clue.
You are the archetypal fraud who stakes a pious claim to having some sort of spiritual worth when in actual fact you possess nothing of the qualities religion claims to espouse, you should be embarrassed but I know you won't, you're too far into the delusional entitlement.
That you back pharmaceutical drugs developed for profit over a plant in it's natural form says it all.
Fake Christianity, just like Trump,May et al.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Thu 21 Jun 18:26
Well we do agree on something.Big Pharma.As for the rest of your monologue you make many assumptions with limited information.
I do agree with you on Trump and May and the studies done on CBD.
Where we disagree is on recreational usage without a medical need.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Thu 21 Jun 18:33
It gives you highs and lows though and shares many of the characteristics of drugs.
Depending on what drugs you compare sugar to the physical impact of prolonged use can be worse too.
People that do drugs including alcohol and tobacco generally want their mind altered to some degree..
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Thu 21 Jun 18:59
Quote:
londonparsfan, Thu 21 Jun 18:33
It gives you highs and lows though and shares many of the characteristics of drugs.
Depending on what drugs you compare sugar to the physical impact of prolonged use can be worse too.
People that do drugs including alcohol and tobacco generally want their mind altered to some degree..
When I was down a big dark hole of depression and anxiety with a side portion of personality disorder...you bet I wanted my mind altered...between DMT, mushrooms, weed and counselling I am all but completely recovered...no pharma drugs involved...except at the start when they nearly made me commit suicide.
To this day pharmaceutical drugs kill far many more than street drugs..but hey, the money's good.
There is an antidepressant widely distributed in the UK right now that originated in the US....and was developed for dogs...yep...that's right...dogs...it was just rebranded.
So yeah Richie....do I think people should have domain over what goes into their body over a profit driven share owning government..yeah...yeah I do.
Ask yourself this...if Jesus turned up now...do you think he would favour a plant created by his father available to anyone with a seed and soil...or a drug designed to create a dependency for profit and greed?
I predict you'll answer that question wrongly.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Thu 21 Jun 19:56
You're not the first person that's said something similar to me mate.
We really need to get away from the stereo typing that drugs are bad and only taken by jakies that are putting your car windows in to fund their habits.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Thu 21 Jun 20:04
Quote:
londonparsfan, Thu 21 Jun 19:56
You're not the first person that's said something similar to me mate.
We really need to get away from the stereo typing that drugs are bad and only taken by jakies that are putting your car windows in to fund their habits.
Like any mind altering substance use and dosage are key...everything can be over done.
Plenty of research has been done on how mushrooms "rewrite" the brain positively in depressed subjects...however the voice on side of pharma and money will always be louder.
Horses for courses imo.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Thu 21 Jun 20:46
Absolutely. MDMA used to get prescribed by marriage counsellors to help mediate arguments and is also being looked at to help ptsd disorders.
There's loads of examples out there of drugs helping people as well as people doing them because they're fun.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Thu 21 Jun 21:07
Quote:
londonparsfan, Thu 21 Jun 20:46
Absolutely. MDMA used to get prescribed by marriage counsellors to help mediate arguments and is also being looked at to help ptsd disorders.
There's loads of examples out there of drugs helping people as well as people doing them because they're fun.
Exactly.
The problem is when they cannot be privatised for MP's to buy shares in...legality supersedes morality.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Thu 21 Jun 22:17
Rasta-I think Jesus would be the first to tell you the side effects of most pharma drugs are likely to make you worse or possibly kill you.
Why not restrict access to M.D's for both THC and CBD.A clinician can then assess any patients need.
It's not necessary to make it available without recommendation.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Thu 21 Jun 22:29
Quote:
richie5401, Thu 21 Jun 22:17
Rasta-I think Jesus would be the first to tell you the side effects of most pharma drugs are likely to make you worse or possibly kill you.
Why not restrict access to M.D's for both THC and CBD.A clinician can then assess any patients need.
It's not necessary to make it available without recommendation.
But it's already available without recommendation.
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Topic Originator: richie5401
Date: Thu 21 Jun 22:32
Recreational isn't.The point is seek a professional if you feel you need help.
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Topic Originator: AlfonzoBonzo
Date: Thu 21 Jun 22:54
Cannabis: safer than guns
Show us yer.... 
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Topic Originator: pars4life1
Date: Fri 22 Jun 05:27
Think its a little bit naive to say cannabis is illegal as there no money in it for big companies.
The recreational drug market is ripe for the taking, it won't be that long after legalisation before there's a handful of big players controlling the majority of sales
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Fri 22 Jun 06:38
Quote:
pars4life1, Fri 22 Jun 05:27
Think its a little bit naive to say cannabis is illegal as there no money in it for big companies.
The recreational drug market is ripe for the taking, it won't be that long after legalisation before there's a handful of big players controlling the majority of sales
Of course.. .once they find the right trough the snouts will feed.
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Topic Originator: calpar
Date: Fri 22 Jun 21:51
Used to buy my various wares weekly from a wee coffee bar round the corner in Breda, Holland, whilst working therein the midnineties, dont know if the setup in Holland at the time was run by big companies, gangsters, or farmers
Was a very lovely hassle free existence tho, recreationally 👍
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