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 The Samson Option
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Tue 14 Aug 19:16

As mentioned by Rasta on the Holocaust thread.

I thought Israel was dependent on America for military power, but according to this, it has a very powerful nuclear capability of its own.

The Samson Option means that even if Israel were wiped out, it would still have the capability to retaliate from elsewhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

It seems unclear whether they really have that capability, but it's a clever deterrent.



Post Edited (Tue 14 Aug 19:20)
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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Tue 14 Aug 19:17

Speaks volumes of why Israel gets away with murder.

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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Tue 14 Aug 19:23

Yes but I think you also have to realise they are determined not to be subjected to an attempted genocide again.

I find some reassurance in what Ari Shavit says, if correct: "Concerning anything and everything nuclear, Israel would be much, much more cautious than the United States and NATO.'



Post Edited (Tue 14 Aug 19:30)
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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Tue 14 Aug 19:29

Quote:

onandupthepars, Tue 14 Aug 19:23

Yes but I think you also have to realise they are determined not to be subjected to an attempted genocide again.


So they get to carry one out and flout international law?
Sorry...poor excuse to threaten the security of the entire planet...and to kill at will.
I suppose that explains why an IDF soldier would shoot a Palestinian football player seven times in the foot though.
Sorry but Netanyahu has long gone mad...and he's taken his rogue terrorist state with him.

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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Tue 14 Aug 19:38

I'm not offering any excuses for Israeli government policy, but I can understand why they would want to have this capability, if it means nobody is ever going to try and wipe them out again.

As for what Israel is doing to the Palestinians, what can the international community do? The UN has no teeth. I've heard folk say it's an impossible issue to resolve.

Regarding the Israeli-Palestinian Peace Process, this seems interesting and informative, I'll have to study it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution

Also, Israeli-Palestinian Peace Process:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_peace_process



Post Edited (Tue 14 Aug 19:53)
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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Tue 14 Aug 19:50

Quote:

onandupthepars, Tue 14 Aug 19:38

I'm not offering any excuses for Israeli government policy, but I can understand why they would want to have this capability, if it means nobody is ever going to try and wipe them out again.

As for what Israel is doing to the Palestinians, what can the international community do? The UN has no teeth. I've heard folk say it's an impossible issue to resolve.


Have you read it all or looked at other sources?
People should be appalled at this...

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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Tue 14 Aug 19:55

Appalled at what? The Samson Option? If they've got it or not, it is what it is. No amount of indignation is going to change it. The Peace Process seems to offer some hope.



Post Edited (Tue 14 Aug 20:02)
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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Tue 14 Aug 20:01

Quote:

onandupthepars, Tue 14 Aug 19:55

Appalled at what?


The Samson Option.
It's purpose...it's existence.

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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Tue 14 Aug 20:21

Yes I've read the article you drew our attention to, Rasta. I don't see any great need for alarm, any more than we should be alarmed by US or Russian capabilities.
At least The Samson Option is not a strategy based on making the first strike, it seems to be only something that would come into force if Israel was under nuclear attack. Who's gonna be daft enough to start that?

Don't worry. Nothing has changed since you discovered its existence. We might as well keep calm, it's better for us 😉



Post Edited (Tue 14 Aug 20:22)
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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Tue 14 Aug 20:38

Quote:

onandupthepars, Tue 14 Aug 20:21

Yes I've read the article you drew our attention to, Rasta. I don't see any great need for alarm, any more than we should be alarmed by US or Russian capabilities.
At least The Samson Option is not a strategy based on making the first strike, it seems to be only something that would come into force if Israel was under nuclear attack. Who's gonna be daft enough to start that?

Don't worry. Nothing has changed since you discovered its existence. We might as well keep calm, it's better for us 😉


Given Israel's recent behaviour...nah...it's not cool.

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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 14 Aug 20:54

"The Samson Option means that even if Israel were wiped out, it would still have the capability to retaliate from elsewhere."

The same deterrent that the US, Russians, UK, China and France has had for decades.
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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Tue 14 Aug 21:07

Quote:

veteraneastender, Tue 14 Aug 20:54

"The Samson Option means that even if Israel were wiped out, it would still have the capability to retaliate from elsewhere."

The same deterrent that the US, Russians, UK, China and France has had for decades.


As I thought...some would skim it.

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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 14 Aug 22:21

Israel has had nuclear weapons for decades, so why is it suddenly an issue now ?

It is believed A4 Skyhawks were on instant readiness alert during the Yom Kippur War of 1973 with so called tactical battlefield nukes when Israel was backs to the wall against Egypt and Syria - then their conventional forces turned things around and the crisis was averted.
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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Tue 14 Aug 22:58

Ref: Rastapari
Tue 14 Aug 20:38

<<<Given Israel's recent behaviour...nah...it's not cool.>>>

You're right Rasta, it's not cool, but we have to live with it and it's because you brought up the Samson Option that I've got interested in reading about the Peace Process.

Unfortunately what the Israelis want and what the Palestinians (or more particularly, Hamas) want seem to be mutually exclusive. But I think something positive going on is The Peace Valley Plan, 'a joint effort of the Israeli, Palestinian and Jordanian governments' to try, through co-operation, to create better diplomatic and economic conditions on which peace may be built.
It's a bit of hope.

Valley of Peace Initiative:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_of_Peace_initiative



Post Edited (Wed 15 Aug 00:25)
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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Thu 16 Aug 06:44

Quote:

onandupthepars, Tue 14 Aug 22:58

Ref: Rastapari
Tue 14 Aug 20:38

<<<Given Israel's recent behaviour...nah...it's not cool.>>>

You're right Rasta, it's not cool, but we have to live with it and it's because you brought up the Samson Option that I've got interested in reading about the Peace Process.

Unfortunately what the Israelis want and what the Palestinians (or more particularly, Hamas) want seem to be mutually exclusive. But I think something positive going on is The Peace Valley Plan, 'a joint effort of the Israeli, Palestinian and Jordanian governments' to try, through co-operation, to create better diplomatic and economic conditions on which peace may be built.
It's a bit of hope.

Valley of Peace Initiative:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_of_Peace_initiative


Given Isreal just bombed the **** out of Gaza It's not going so well.

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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 16 Aug 07:09

Why did they bomb Gazza this time Rasta.
No I am not justifying it. It was appalling. Just wondered if you are aware of any reason they might have given for doing it.

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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 16 Aug 08:45

Hamas fired 90 + rockets and mortar rounds against Israeli territory.

Each side contributes to the cycle of violence.
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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 16 Aug 09:19

Nothing to do with this Samson nonsense but this is a powerful clip from a UN meeting.
https://youtu.be/35eEljsSQfc

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 16 Aug 12:50

Syria criticising another state in the UN over civil rights - pot and kettle comes to mind.
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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 16 Aug 18:14

Quote:

veteraneastender, Thu 16 Aug 08:45

Hamas fired 90 + rockets and mortar rounds against Israeli territory.

Each side contributes to the cycle of violence.


....and that is my point exactly. They also kicked this bout off by killing an Israeli soldier. I take neither side but if you are going to get your news from "Electronic Intifada" maybe you should dig a bit deeper.



Post Edited (Thu 16 Aug 18:15)
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 Re: The Samson Option
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sat 18 Aug 15:07

Ref: Rastapari (Thu 16 Aug 06:44,) responding to my comments about The Valley of Peace Initiative:

<<< Given Israel just bombed the **** out of Gaza It's not going so well. >>>

It doesn't claim to be the whole solution, far from it, but I can see potential value in having workforces which include Palestinians, Israelis and Jordanians all working together. It seems to me to be something that may result in a wee bit of community-building. A political solution may be a long time coming.



Post Edited (Sat 18 Aug 21:03)
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