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 Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: calpar  
Date:   Sat 20 Oct 01:36

Lessons will be learnt, in Huddersfield,really ?
fckng sickening, well done CPS, & police
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: General Zod  
Date:   Sat 20 Oct 06:45

Do we have to call them grooming gangs or can we use the more accurate term Asian grooming gangs? Do you think Tommy Robinson was right as to why their trials were kept a secret? Are we allowed to agree with him sometimes? These people are scumbags. Hopefully they are on the receiving end of some prison justice. Rapists and kiddy fiddlers are the most hated among all prisoners.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: Bamba-Daft  
Date:   Sat 20 Oct 10:58

Well done the police? Are you kidding? The police ALLOWED this to happen. They turned a blind eye, just like they did in Rotherham.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 20 Oct 11:16

Quote:

Bamba-Daft, Sat 20 Oct 10:58

Well done the police? Are you kidding? The police ALLOWED this to happen. They turned a blind eye, just like they did in Rotherham.


This.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 20 Oct 11:30

Quote:

General Zod, Sat 20 Oct 06:45

Do we have to call them grooming gangs or can we use the more accurate term Asian grooming gangs? Do you think Tommy Robinson was right as to why their trials were kept a secret? Are we allowed to agree with him sometimes? These people are scumbags. Hopefully they are on the receiving end of some prison justice. Rapists and kiddy fiddlers are the most hated among all prisoners.


A passionate and interesting post, Zod. If we call them Asian grooming gangs, it wouldn't be PC and it would leave us open to the charge of racism. I don't know what Tommy Robinson said, so I can't comment.

These people ARE scumbags - not because they are Asian, Pakistanis or anything else, but because they have no morals. There are plenty of other scumbags born in almost every corner of the world - besides at least some members of this gang will be British born, so technically at least, they're not Asians.

There's little doubt however, that in some cultures, women do not enjoy equal status with men and are looked down on or regarded as mere possessions. Most members of this gang would probably not have targeted girls from their own background but Western or white girls are probably regarded as fair game, partly because they dress differently, which they see as provocative and partly because they are regarded as being more promiscuous and therefore "fair game" in their eyes.

None of the above should be seen as a justification for their vile behaviour, nor am I condoning it in any way. Like Zod, I hope they are all locked up and the keys are thrown away.

Edit. I've been on line now and read about what Tommy Robinson said and did and I should like to distance myself from this really unsavoury character. In his own way, he's as bad as some of the scumbags he so obviously detests. His hatred appears to be founded more on their racial origin than the crimes they have been convicted of.



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Sun 21 Oct 09:10)
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 20 Oct 11:43

A very balanced post GG.
I dont see any reason to include, or for that matter exclude the word Asian. What does it matter if they were Asian, African, Oriental or European. Men are capable of this whatever the ethnic background. There are plenty European people trafficking gangs but we wouldn't expect the press to specify European if that was the case.

I think the necessity to include the specific race indicates a distrust or dislike of that group, or an insinuation that it is typical or synonymous of that group.

Tommy's agenda was down that line.



Post Edited (Sat 20 Oct 11:44)
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: calpar  
Date:   Sat 20 Oct 11:54

I dont know about the police 'allowing' it to happen, but certainly 1 parents interview I read, the parents were fully aware of what was going on, and didnt appear to do much about it.
If i was the father, i'm fairly sure i'd have gone to jail before this pile of scum
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 20 Oct 12:06

This looks particularly bad because of the scale in a specific group.

Unfortunately, if you speak to any police officer they will tell you a great deal of their time and resources is taken up with domestic and sexual abuse.
I have seen the extent of the abuse in Dundee alone when I was at a fostering meeting. Pins on a local map. You would not believe it. I found out one of my most trusted friends was a paedophile preying on his wife's daughter. He only got 4 years.

I'm telling you now that statistically you have friends and acquaintances who are guilty. We should all be vigilant...but not paranoid.

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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Sat 20 Oct 12:48

"The necessity to include the specific race indicates a distrust or dislike of that group.

Some will probably come to that conclusion but it shouldn't prevent the press printing the facts of who was involved.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sat 20 Oct 13:06

I think half the problem with the way these grooming gangs were allowed to continue is that the authorities were scared to tackle the problem for fear of offending the Pakistani community. There is a widescale problem here and it should be called out for what it is. We have seen this up and down the country. I see today Sajid Javid has actually referred to them as 'Asian Paedophiles' and is now facing s backlash from human rights campaigners. Jack Straw was vilified years ago for telling it how it was. This is part of the problem, people should be allowed to speak up
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Sat 20 Oct 15:52

Watching the BBC news this morning on this subject when a lawyer of ethnic minority descent was unequivocal in his statement that we should not beat about the bush that these criminal are from Pakistani background. Nothing of racist intent. He feels strongly that the majority of where these crimes are being committed are from non white background. Knowing nothing of the case, it was an interesting interview to listen to.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 20 Oct 16:07

Im not going to disagree but does this mean we also have to stipulate white european in every case too.

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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Sat 20 Oct 16:57

Certainly European if that's the case.I agree with you folks of all skin colour do bad things,that's nothing new.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Sat 20 Oct 18:28

Strange that this isnt on politics forum

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 20 Oct 20:04

South Yorkshire Constabulary - say no more.

Hillsborough.

Cliff Richard fiasco.

Rotherham child abuse network.

Now Huddersfield.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: parbucks  
Date:   Sat 20 Oct 21:21

Not just South Yorkshire:

Aylesbury, Oxford, Bristol,Newcastle Telford....

As far as I am aware Robinson was “ guilty” of getting involved in publicising the trial when it was the subject of a media blackout and could have prejudiced the court proceedings and verdict outcome.

The common denominator in all this seems to be the lack of action by the police in what were distasteful and illegal activities involving kids and young adults over many years.
It is inconceivable, IMO, that the scale of these abhorrent activities could have gone on across the country involving many people without the knowledge of public authorities.

There is a clear pattern here and we deserve answers.



Post Edited (Sat 20 Oct 22:17)
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sun 21 Oct 09:02

Really annoys me when they are described as Asians.
They are not Chinese, Japananese, Mongolian or any other Asian origin you can think of.
The problem is predominantly one of Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Somalian origin. All of the men involved in all these grooming gangs have origins from these cultures.
I also am uneasy about calling them Muslim grooming gangs as it gives fuel to the right wing scumbags.
The sad thing is that these grooming gangs use their religion to justify their actions.
Mohammed married Aisha when she was only 6.
This is used not only to justify the actions of these grooming gangs but child marriages across the Muslim world.

Historically we also had older men getting married to children. Our own Robert the Bruce married a 13 year old. Edward the Third married an 8 year old. Thankfully we have moved on. Sadly the religious world not so much. With child marriage happening in religious communities in the USA even.

I recently read that cases of paedophilia in Evangelical churches in America now surpass those of the Catholic church.
I wonder if Richie would be as keen to call these Evangelical paodophiles what that are as he seems to be keen to call the grooming gangs here Asians.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 21 Oct 09:09

Show me the post where Richie describes them as Asian?

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sun 21 Oct 09:14

Quote:

richie5401, Sat 20 Oct 12:48

"The necessity to include the specific race indicates a distrust or dislike of that group.

Some will probably come to that conclusion but it shouldn't prevent the press printing the facts of who was involved.


Not directly saying "call them Asians" but he is defending the press reporting that they are Asians.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 21 Oct 10:04

He also, in reply to parrot asking if they should be labelled white european if applicable, said;
" Certainly European if that's the case.I agree with you folks of all skin colour do bad things,that's nothing new."

Plenty of other posters on here are calling them Asian but you seem to have an issue with Richie because you have a bias against his religious leanings but Richie hasn't mentioned religion once in this thread.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 21 Oct 10:09

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Sun 21 Oct 09:14

Quote:

richie5401, Sat 20 Oct 12:48

"The necessity to include the specific race indicates a distrust or dislike of that group.

Some will probably come to that conclusion but it shouldn't prevent the press printing the facts of who was involved.


Not directly saying "call them Asians" but he is defending the press reporting that they are Asians.


Yes but why do they need to?
As you said earlier the never say white european anglicans when that is often the case.

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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 21 Oct 10:14

Marriages between royalty and landed gentry were arranged for political reasons. It doesn't mean they were at it with kids that young. I doubt Mohammed had sex with a 6 year old.
I would guess these guys had plenty concubines. The marriage had a completely different purpose.



Post Edited (Sun 21 Oct 10:15)
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sun 21 Oct 10:56

Quote:

PARrot, Sun 21 Oct 10:14

I doubt Mohammed had sex with a 6 year old.


No he waited until she was 9. Before that he performed what is known as thighing. Where he satisfied himself by humping the gap between her thighs. You OK with that?
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 21 Oct 12:31

Is that what it says in the Koran?

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Sun 21 Oct 13:10

SIF's original post is pretty much on the mark(apart from i actually read the BBC report and all it mentioned was Pakastani grooming gangs).

In all other areas though he is correct.For the record it shouldn't matter what affiliation/religion an individual adheres to,if he interferes with children/young adults he going away for a long time.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sun 21 Oct 13:47

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 21 Oct 12:31

Is that what it says in the Koran?


No it's in letters that Aisha wrote in later life.
So more reliable evidence than any religious text.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sun 21 Oct 13:49

Quote:

richie5401, Sun 21 Oct 13:10

SIF's original post is pretty much on the mark(apart from i actually read the BBC report and all it mentioned was Pakastani grooming gangs).

In all other areas though he is correct.For the record it shouldn't matter what affiliation/religion an individual adheres to,if he interferes with children/young adults he going away for a long time.


End times must be just round the corner. Me and Richie in agreement on something.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Sun 21 Oct 14:07

lol.It could be.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sun 21 Oct 14:13

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Sun 21 Oct 13:47

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 21 Oct 12:31

Is that what it says in the Koran?


No it's in letters that Aisha wrote in later life.
So more reliable evidence than any religious text.


Actually on fact checking myself found that Aishas letters are included in various Hadiths so they are religious texts also.
Making the argument that these men have sex with children because of their religious beliefs even stronger.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 21 Oct 14:49

No it doesn't. I don't believe there is any religious aspect to this at all. Cultural perhaps but thats different. I don't think these sleazy scumbags truly believe in God or that their actions are somehow following holy instructions. In the same way that when atheists commit terrible crimes do I believe that it's their lack of religious beliefs that have led to their flawed characters.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 21 Oct 15:42

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Sun 21 Oct 10:56

Quote:

PARrot, Sun 21 Oct 10:14

I doubt Mohammed had sex with a 6 year old.


No he waited until she was 9. Before that he performed what is known as thighing. Where he satisfied himself by humping the gap between her thighs. You OK with that?


Why would I be alright with that. What a weird question, especially as you know me reasonably well. Thanks for the rest though. I didn't know any of that.

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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sun 21 Oct 21:41

Quote:

PARrot, Sun 21 Oct 15:42

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Sun 21 Oct 10:56

Quote:

PARrot, Sun 21 Oct 10:14

I doubt Mohammed had sex with a 6 year old.


No he waited until she was 9. Before that he performed what is known as thighing. Where he satisfied himself by humping the gap between her thighs. You OK with that?


Why would I be alright with that. What a weird question, especially as you know me reasonably well. Thanks for the rest though. I didn't know any of that.


It was a rhetorical question. Of course I know you would not be OK with it.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sun 21 Oct 21:58

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 21 Oct 14:49

No it doesn't. I don't believe there is any religious aspect to this at all. Cultural perhaps but thats different. I don't think these sleazy scumbags truly believe in God or that their actions are somehow following holy instructions. In the same way that when atheists commit terrible crimes do I believe that it's their lack of religious beliefs that have led to their flawed characters.


I truly wish it was just a cultural thing. It would possibly be easier to deal with.
This subject has been discussed numerous times in atheist groups I am in on Facebook.
There are many ex Muslims in these groups and whenever a video of some Imam is posted that has subtitles and is purported to be them saying it's OK to have sex with children. Using Aisha as an example because their perfect prophet could not be wrong. These ex Muslims always confirm the translation to be accurate.

Culture definitely has a major role or these grooming gangs would be from across the Muslim world and not mostly of Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Somali origin.
The fact is they do use their religion as justification because Imams from these countries preach that it is OK. The other country I have seen Imams preach this message from is Saudi Arabia.
My boss worked in Dubai for a few years but eventually quit as some of the people he worked with would have 1 hour marriages at the weekend.
They would come into work on the Monday boasting of how they had has sex with girls as young as 8. It was all ok though as they were married to them so didn't break their religious rules.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 22 Oct 08:28

Did the South Yorkshire shame not start with a case in Darlington - was that not the one that the BBC made into a true story drama ?

Or am I confusing different “investigations” - or rather the lack thereof ?
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: calpar  
Date:   Mon 22 Oct 08:30

I think i would have punched my bosses pus long before leaving in that situation, respect for culture long out the window before then
Thankfully i never spent any time in these places, bad enough seeing the expoitation of young asian women by white europeans in hong kong
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 22 Oct 08:43

Did the South Yorkshire shame not start with a case in Darlington - was that not the one that the BBC made into a true story drama ?

Or am I confusing different “investigations” - or rather the lack thereof ?

On the age issue in different cultures, didn’t Jerry Lee Lewis get kicked out the UK way back for having his child bride over here when he did a tour ?
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Mon 22 Oct 16:33

Yaxley-Lennons actions could have led to the collapse of the trial and rather than convictions those now in Hotel HMP would end up being back in the communities potentially repeating the vile actions.

Everyone deserves a fair trial etc but the publication of similar cases in close proximity could undoubtedly influence the jury or set precedences when it comes to sentencing etc and for that reason having it as a media blackout is the correct way to do things and not because they are trying to hush things up like Mr "I don't know my own identity" will have the baying gangs believing.

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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Tue 23 Oct 00:39

It wasn't the wisest decision to go there.Neither was the speed of his "trial"
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: Bamba-Daft  
Date:   Tue 23 Oct 11:44

“Yaxley-Lennons actions could have led to the collapse of the trial and rather than convictions those now in Hotel HMP would end up being back in the communities potentially repeating the vile actions.”

The judge and crown agreed that nothing he said could have prejudiced the trial.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: Opelfruitloops  
Date:   Wed 31 Oct 17:41

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sat 20 Oct 20:04

South Yorkshire Constabulary - say no more.

Hillsborough.

Cliff Richard fiasco.

Rotherham child abuse network.

Now Huddersfield.


And don't forget Orgreave during the 1984 miners strike. Again South Yorkshire police

Be true to who you are
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: DRFC_no1  
Date:   Wed 31 Oct 22:44

Take religion out of the world and it instantly becomes a happier place........most wars recently have been fought due to religion.......how many lives have their gods saved from falling bombs and flying bullets?
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 11:43

The last 2 World Wars had nothing to do with religion.Wars are fought for many reasons.Principally though for something the other has.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 12:07

He did say "recently" 🤔

ADMIN.... min 😏

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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 12:09

The Iraq war was over religion?I think not.Black gold.
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 12:27

I'm not siding with anyone on this btw... I'm just stating that he did use the term "recent" so was probably not meaning the world wars... Just to be clear.
Carry on 😉

ADMIN.... min 😏

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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 12:29

I dunno 5000 years of world history-100 year-70 odd years ago could be considered recent;)
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 12:32

I'm not getting into that debate with you good sir... 😏
Well played though.

ADMIN.... min 😏

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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 12:55

Yep,no unpleasantness this close to Christmas:)
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: calpar  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 13:46

Sunnis against shia, i'd say that was religious
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 Re: Do we ever learn ?
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 13:53

That's a war that been going on since 630 A.D
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