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 Gun Laws
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Fri 28 Dec 12:21

Following on from the very opinionated thread earlier in the year regarding the need for tighter gun laws here and in the US I was reading with interest this article today.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/27/police-struggle-to-stop-flood-of-firearms-into-uk?CMP=share_btn_tw&fbclid=IwAR1hKai2spckaNqNJGXuB8arjL9OS_ckV6Y7_rKzsdKvYHjoBhyRShpephc

We appear to be going down a very dangerous road in this country at the moment with a small minority totally committed to being unlawful to protect their little crime enterprises or gang wars.

In a country like ours where we have very tough laws on gun ownership to read stories like this really concerns me because the knee jerk reaction will always be we need to tighten the laws when actually in this case the people wanting them have no regards to the law anyway.

A very similar situation to the US where the weapon of choice to a mass murderer is going to be what they can get there hands on. They have banned bump stops being sold but not made them illegal, so those with them carry on. Illegal weapons throughout the world will continue to be the issue.

With the types of weapons finding there way here now I really am concerned we do potentially are coming closer to our own horrific mass shooting probably in some underground music venue all part of a teenage gang war!
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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Fri 28 Dec 14:24

Tighter gun laws really are not the answer.,just a flailing attempt to cover a major blunder in immigration policy.Open borders,sanctuary cities etc are inevitably going to lead to a minority of folks with bad intentions.

The irony being the institution that is supposed to protect it's citizens now feels threatened when the individual takes responsibility for his/her protection.
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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: Mr Mac  
Date:   Fri 28 Dec 14:33

Take a look at Gun No. 6 on BBC iPlayer, charts the crimes linked to one weapon which has never been recovered; if I remember correctly its the most 'prolific' weapon not found.

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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 28 Dec 15:59

'Tighter gun laws really are not the answer.,just a flailing attempt to cover a major blunder in immigration policy.Open borders,sanctuary cities etc are inevitably going to lead to a minority of folks with bad intentions.'


I'm finding it hard to follow the logic here. How is immigration connected to a rising importation of illegal weapons? The police spokesman indicated that the illegal weapons are to bolster organised criminal groups within the country, with a small number of those being obtained from criminals by what are called 'terrorists.'

Using 'shooters' has a long tradition in the UK underworld, in London at least, and many of these diamond geezers swear loyalty to the queen and dislike foreigners on their manor. They are instinctive UKIP voters for the most part. Over the last century they have fought with/allied with criminals arriving from Eastern Europe (mainly Jewish as led by Jack Spot and Alf Solomon), Italy (the Sabinis), Cypress (the Messinas), Yardies from the Caribbean and more recently crime gangs from Africa. It's an old story and I cannot see a link to any immigration policy. The main problem seems to be availability of illegal weapons which as Renegade Master indicated will not be deterred by gun laws aimed at law-abiding citizens.
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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Fri 28 Dec 16:22

It wouldn't be a massive leap to suggest that criminal gangs are selling them on to anyone who wants them.They are not adverse to making a pound or dollar.
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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par  
Date:   Fri 28 Dec 16:51

<How is immigration connected to a rising importation of illegal weapons?>

I suspect the point is that if the borders fail to stop immigrants, the very same routes can easily be used to bring in the guns in question (and drugs/whatever else they want)

It's not in my view, a blaming of immigrants, but pointing out the very poor border controls of the UK and the non-existent border controls in Schengen

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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Fri 28 Dec 16:59

^Correct.Open borders policies have never worked for any country.You will always have the problem that a minority(and thank goodness it's only that) will cause havoc.
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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 28 Dec 17:54

The UK doesn't and never has had open borders.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 28 Dec 18:15

You could ban immigration entirely, as UKIP would like, but you would still have to import goods. There was no connection made between immigration and the illegal importation of goods in the article. That link was made by Richie, who I understand is probably an immigrant to the USA. As in the USA, most organised crime groups in the UK can trace their inglorious heritage back at least a century.


Given the UKs significant role in exporting weapons (legally) to many infamous tyrannies, it is ironic for us to be squealing about the importation of illegal weaponry.
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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Fri 28 Dec 18:16

I think the PC term is "relaxed"
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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Fri 28 Dec 18:26

It's not really a ban entirely Sammer,it would be a points based system.
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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Fri 28 Dec 18:46

Its more worrying the type of guns now coming in which is what is the most concerning.

Like drugs the more readily available the cheaper they get and the more they get into the wrong hands with horrific consequences, the knife epidemic we are currently seeing in London looks set to soon to escalate to guns.

As I said previously you start getting the guns into hand of those who have come from countries where that is second nature and use is common place for your own safety then it is not going to matter what country you are now in, I think this is where there immigration link/factor is being highlighted.

For the police to say they can't cope with this influx is the most alarming thing!
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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 28 Dec 21:16

If you want to keep guns out of the hands of those from countries where they are second nature then you will have to ban poor, law-abiding Richie from the USA! But somehow I don't think that is your agenda.

There are no right hands for guns to be in, though since we cannot dis-invent them, some are worse than others. The suggestion that gun crime is a result of immigration controls being weak is standard UKIP/Streicher propanda, and a bit of an insult to our long tradition of violent crime, much of it carried out by those of Scottish descent such as Frankie Fraser, Jimmy Boyle and MacVicar to name but three. Gun crime is not about immigration, so don't try to twist the article to your own ends. The police said no such thing; it was your preconceptions which did the rest.
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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Fri 28 Dec 23:39

Well i guess Merkel and Blair actually admitting they made mistakes in their immigration policy was propaganda as well.

The majority are actually for immigration,as am i.They got the numbers completely wrong though.
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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Sat 29 Dec 00:20

I don't object to immigration! I object to non vetted refugee status from war torn countries where the upbringing has been violence and guns for protection.

I'm well aware of the gun crime scenario have made much comment on it and actually how rife it is in Glasgow especially but also how low key it is kept as it only involves scroats shooting scroats and has very little effect on the general public.

The current situation developing in inner cities of England especially London are going to have serious and innocent consequences very soon and will quickly prove gun laws or no gun laws won't stop mass shootings. Nor will banning guns I hasten to say as I have mentioned earlier. Millions have been spent preventing vehicle attacks while the borders have been getting flooded with guns!

Too much money in this country spent protecting planes and vehicle attacks at the same times as guns and those who know and will use use them get into the country unchecked!
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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Sat 29 Dec 00:33

Pretty much spot on RM.Kind of makes you nostalgic for common sense.
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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sat 29 Dec 02:45

Nostalgia and common sense are the watchwords of UKIP and their racist agenda. They have not served this country well. Freud is very good on the contradictions of nostalgia.

Despite Renegade Master sounding like he is under imminent attack somewhere in the UK, neither you Richie, nor him, has established any connection between gun crime and immigration. Short of your own prejudices that is. The article with which RM opened this thread made no connection either. I have mentioned a number of well known criminal figures and gangs stretching back a century to indicate that gun crime is integral to indigenous London crime, but I all I have in return is bigotry against foreigners. Can either of you name a specific 'immigrant' gang that is buying or using these weapons?

If RM really wants to be frightened by weaponry, then try visiting a country where these weapons are sold by the UK from their workshops in, predominantly, London and the West Midlands. He'll know what fear is then. Not the fake version of fear hyped up by police bosses trying to squeeze more money from the public purse.
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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: calpar  
Date:   Sat 29 Dec 03:58

Hm rm needs a gun licencse doesnt he? Ooh imagine the lobbying
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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 29 Dec 10:05

I agree with much of what Sammer says until he goes overboard with the hyperbole about nations living in fear because of the wave of guns being knocked up in English workshops. In actuality it's the former states of the Soviet Union and certain eastern bloc nations that are trafficking the highest number of small arms around the globe.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Gun Laws
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Sat 29 Dec 12:34

Of course it's racist to ask who is coming into a country,what their background is,intentions and skills.None of those questions make any sense at all.A leader who cares for his/her nation shouldn't use anywhere near that judgement.

The connection i was making Sammer was between mass immigration and tighter gun laws,not crime.Legal and illegal folks commit serious crimes.
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