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 Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey  
Date:   Fri 20 Sep 08:44

Could go into administration within 48 hours if recent news reports are accurate, stranding nearly 200,000 holidaymakers abroad.

Was reading last night that they need to sell in the region of 3 million holidays per year just to service the interest on their debt alone. Can't see too many people going into them today to book anything !
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Fri 20 Sep 10:05

Given AirBnB/no frills airlines the "package" holiday is becoming a thing of the past. Sadly my mate works for TC and has long said how evident cost cutting has been across branches.

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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Fri 20 Sep 13:54

Back in 2012 I made an absolute killing on Thomas Cook when a similar situation occurred. Thankfully they got through it and I managed to sell at about 15 times more than I bought for a nice wee profit. Having looked at the data, I'm not sure I have much stomach for it this time though
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 20 Sep 15:42

We are booked with TUI to Mallorca next month, friends joining us from Manchester on same TUI package deal but flights are TC airlines.

I hear their flights will go ahead - from TUI staff.

A great pity if they go down the pan, regardless of all other issues.



Post Edited (Fri 20 Sep 18:36)
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Fri 20 Sep 21:26

Jet2 being blamed as a huge reason to this situation who have adapted to modern times.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 20 Sep 22:22

Wow never thought red star was the Gordon Gekko capitalist type.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 21 Sep 09:26

Outlook this morning is looking bleak - when a company is asking for a government bailout to continue trading.

Even if it does survive, customer confidence will evoporate in case this situation comes around again in the near term.

Only TUI and Jet2 stand to benefit in that scenario.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Sat 21 Sep 09:44

Sitting in Tunisia at the moment with flight back supposed to be Tuesday but no idea if we'll get back then.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 21 Sep 10:02

Uncertain times donj, sorry to hear of your situation.

If TC go bust this weekend there can't (?) be any holidaymakers heading out from the UK on flights next week that are scheduled to turn around and bring back returning clients.

I suspect TC flights will fly out empty to collect only.

A huge logistical exercise to repatriate Brits abroad - and a big hit for the hotels etc. - apparently the holiday companies settle up with these establishments 6 weeks after the rooms have been occupied.

As I said, friends are on a TUI package next month using TC flights - and we've been advised they are good to go.



Post Edited (Sat 21 Sep 10:04)
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: Jbob  
Date:   Sat 21 Sep 10:34

Awful for everyone yet some folk focus on making money out of it. Shameful.

Bobs of the world unite
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Sat 21 Sep 15:51

Thing is as Atol protected we get to stay at no cost but we have our pup to pick up.Nice if you fancy a few extra days for free but I want home for him.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 21 Sep 18:13

Does ATOL cover accommodation and meals ?

I thought it was only guaranteed flights home.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 06:38

A friend of mine, 21 years an air hostess, has just been made redundant...

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 07:24

ATOL pays up what is owed to hoteliers and gets people home. Current advice is to check the website as your flight might be a different date/time but not to cut the holidays short and try to get home under your own steam.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 08:02

Really sad news to wake up to today.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 08:46

"A friend of mine, 21 years an air hostess, has just been made redundant..."

Hopefully other companies will quickly take advantage of this unfortunate situation, put on extra flights, and open up a lot of posts. I hope your friend can find something quickly.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 08:50

21,000 people globally and 9,000 people in the UK set to lose their jobs is gutting.

When you consider the Government was able to find £1.2 trillion in total for bank bail outs it seems hard to believe that they couldn't have found a way to either lend or take an equity share in TC for the £200 million TC needed to continue operating and finalise their rescue package.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 08:52

9000 UK jobs going. Let's be honest, maybe only a quarter will get a new job?
This is the saddest part of the collapse.




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 08:54

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/thomas-cook-collapse-bailout-boris-johnson-150m-administration-passengers-a9116171.html

Just saw that apparently TC did ask for £150 million but were knocked back as it was a "moral hazard" to give them the money.

Comedy gold if it wasn't so serious.

Post Edited (Mon 23 Sep 08:54)
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 09:12

Flying back tomorrow but landing at Gatwick then I assume bus to Glasgow.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 10:28

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/23/boris-johnson-repeatedly-declines-to-comment-on-claims-he-awarded-public-funds-to-friend

Obviously not on the same scale but I guess giving public funds to some companies isn't always a moral hazard.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 10:58

Working in a bank, today has been an absolute nightmare with this. Feel awful for people who are losing out on money etc
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 13:06

I suspect a buyer will be found, once they have 1p in the £ sorted with creditors,same name new business (chinese) and a total restructure. Follow advice on money saving expert just now, at least if your away you can finish your holiday.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 13:38

I think it’s liquidation rather than administration so the penny in the pound scenario isn’t relevant (I think). The business has ceased to be rather than an administration period where the business carries on trading while looking for a buyer. Assets will be sold off separately.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: dave67  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 15:48

Meanwhile jet2 and virgin have added up to £1000 on holidays

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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 17:06

"A friend of mine, 21 years an air hostess, has just been made redundant..."

That's the tragic bit - Mr.Frankhauser, the CEO, was taking BIG money rewards in recent years and the top executives likewise.

The airline arm of TC is a highly attractive saleable asset, hopefully she'll be offered a job with them once the "Phoenix" arises.

Incidentally - the worst airline collapse in terms of avoidability was Globespan some years back. They were profitable and viable but some form of financial dark arts (which I wouldn't claim to understand) squeezed their cashflow.



Post Edited (Mon 23 Sep 17:17)
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 17:56

Apologies for the source but this was a nice touch:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/4754149/scots-thomas-cook-passengers-raise-money/
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 18:11

Globespan was avoidable but their finances were very sketchy. Bit like the airline itself. Used them 3 times. Every single time there was a significant flight delay.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 18:57

Will the £200 million TC asked for actually turn out less than the cost of transporting stranded holidaymakers? I see the tabloids are in full Dunkirk mode and no doubt good old Boris will be presented as the man for a crisis.

The government could of course have renationalised Thomas Cook, which was a nationalised company from 1948 until 1972, but that would be politically unpalatable to the Conservative Party. Public=bad; Private=good remains the mantra.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 23:14

Not only TC staff are going to suffer as hotels will dump staff as less customers.I feel sorry for all these people who suffer whilst the top guy still has his massive wages for ruining a lot of lives.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 23:19

People will still go on holiday, donj, so don't agree that hotel staff will suffer

I was told there was a queue out the door at Barrhead Travel in Duloch today




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 23:25

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/23/hedge-funds-win-big-from-short-selling-thomas-cook-shares

Quelle surprise.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 07:55

The queue at Duloch would be TV customers trying to find out how to get their money back. There's not normally a queue at Barrhead Travel.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 09:56

Pizza Hut and Subway were apparently keeping the team at Duloch fed and watered so well done to them too.

Post Edited (Tue 24 Sep 09:56)
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 11:54

Still waiting to board flight back.It's an A380 to Gatwick.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 17:53

To keep the company trading with a £200m bailout would have kept them going for about 2 weeks. RBS are the biggest creditor. The Chinese investor was wanting certain debt written off that is why they asked for the additional security.

TC have not paid for any of the hotels used over the whole summer holiday period they work on a 8 week delay after your holiday to pay for accommodation. The hotels will really feel this especially the TC Exclusive resorts!

The timing by the bank to wind them up is crucial, no hotels paid, no wages paid, no fuel paid, no airports paid. I doubt the £200m would have even covered that.

So if the company had carried on trading flying out customers then this scenario would certainly have played out sooner or later. Possibly with more impact with customers sitting at airports as flights got cancelled and people being turned away at their destination.

It was wound up when TC had 1 plane in the air and was half way over the Atlantic.

Giving £200m to TC would have been worse than the burning money!
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 18:23

RM is right, TC was a dead man walking scenario.

Bailing them out with public funds would only have delayed their demise for a short period of time.

The blame can’t wholly be dumped on the present CEO - he inherited a poisoned chalice when he took over - the previous regime had purchased the Co-op travel business for a grossly overpriced amount around 8 years ago and this financial burden was a major factor in the downfall.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 18:37

Quote:

veteraneastender, Tue 24 Sep 18:23

RM is right, TC was a dead man walking scenario.

Bailing them out with public funds would only have delayed their demise for a short period of time.

The blame can’t wholly be dumped on the present CEO - he inherited a poisoned chalice when he took over - the previous regime had purchased the Co-op travel business for a grossly overpriced amount around 8 years ago and this financial burden was a major factor in the downfall.


Is this the CEO who earned £8m over 3 years? Money well spent eh.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 18:48

I wouldn't say RM is right as that wasnt actually the scenario. The £200 million wasnt working capital, there was a deal for a £900 million recapitalisation of the business.

The £200m was an additional request by a lender for the funds as a "stand by seasonal facility" so they needed to find a £200 million safety net they might not need.

It was similar to the SFA telling a cash strapped Livi back in the day that they had to provide a £200k bond to guarantee their seasonal fixtures then relegating them when they couldn't.

The cash flow delays for the hotels wont be good but they will be covered by atol.

If TC had stayed in business it wouldn't have been £200 million they were working from and the company could have kept on trading for a bit at least and may (not guaranteed) have gone bust if they could have made it through the winter.

We'll never know. The estimate bill for bringing everyone back is £600 million.

It would be interesting to see how many of the hedge funds shorting TC make donations to the people that decided not to provide the additional security to TC.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 18:48

The rewards he received are way over the top, no argument there, as I alluded to earlier - as is the norm with these large outfits.

However he is not the reason TC floundered.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 19:01

The estimates I've seen for getting people home is £100 million. The Repatriation following Monarch Airlines demise was £60 million.Where has the figure of £600 million been banded about?
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 19:07

https://www.ft.com/content/a43857fc-dd2e-11e9-b112-9624ec9edc59

Been quite widely reported actually.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 19:23

Cheers but subscription required. Guardian reports over £100 million-granted 600 million is more than £100 million but it's a bit of a leap!

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/23/squadrons-start-flying-150000-thomas-cook-customers-back-to-uk

The CAA has chartered more than 40 aircraft, including from the US and Malaysia, to bring customers home from 18 countries, after Thomas Cook’s own planes were grounded. The repatriation is expected to incur costs of more than £100m, borne by the Department for Transport.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 19:35

This was discussed today, would you really want a flight crew who have just been made redundant flying you home? The flight home from Florida the last flight by all accounts the pilot came on the radio in tears to tell all the passengers that it was his duty to complete this flight even though he would not be paid and he had no idea if or when he would work again or how he was going to pay his mortgage this month. The stewardesses subsequently burst into tears.

I think I'd feel a little nervous to say the least!

It doesn't matter if it is £100m or £600m these will be covered by the fees all travel agents pay into the fund to be ATOL and ABTA registered, it's like house insurance you pay it all your life but might never claim on it. TC have probably paid more than anyone over the years.

The £200m bailout would have been an utter waste of public money with nothing to stop the CEO paying himself another £2m farewell bonus.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 19:36

I haven't got a subscription - weird!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/a43857fc-dd2e-11e9-b112-9624ec9edc59

To be fair it does say up to £600m so that's probably the top end of the scale.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/20/thomas-cook-in-talks-stave-off-collapse-biggest-peacetime-repatriation

The £600m includes the ATOL guarantees not just the air fares which is maybe why theres such a difference vs Monarch.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 19:41

"The £200m bailout would have been an utter waste of public money with nothing to stop the CEO paying himself another £2m farewell bonus."

Not necessarily, as I posted above the £200 million wasnt needed as working capital.

If there were concerns of over the CEO, the Government could have made it a condition he stepped down.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 19:47

Topic Originator: londonparsfan like | nolike
Date: Tue 24 Sep 19:41

"The £200m bailout would have been an utter waste of public money with nothing to stop the CEO paying himself another £2m farewell bonus."

Not necessarily, as I posted above the £200 million wasnt needed as working capital.

If there were concerns of over the CEO, the Government could have made it a condition he stepped down.


They are currently over £1 Billion in debt, they had no capital the £900m from China was agreed but yet available due to certain conditions it had requested from RBS.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 20:06

If I'm reading it correctly that was the £200 million that was needed as security to release the £900 million I believe.

The banks wanted Fosun to cover it as stand by equity but they were already putting up £450m towards a risky venture so declined.

Thomas Cook might never had needed to use the £200m and could have been repaid in the spring.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 22:30

"The flight home from Florida the last flight by all accounts the pilot came on the radio in tears to tell all the passengers that it was his duty to complete this flight even though he would not be paid and he had no idea if or when he would work again or how he was going to pay his mortgage this month."

According to an industry observer on radio - pilots are in short supply worldwide and they should not have too much difficulty finding positions.

TC aircraft will still need pilots where ever they end up being flown.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 23:28

Finally home after flight on A380 in business class seat to Gatwick and a Dreamliner back to Glasgow.Long long day but at least loads of room on the flights.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 26 Sep 10:17

It's all coming to the fore now.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/thomas-cook-failed-with-balance-sheet-deficit-of-over-3-1bn-szxxn2593
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: RhinoPars  
Date:   Thu 26 Sep 11:23

Agree with RM and VEE - Bad strategic and capital allocation decisions by management and a failure to evolve with the times caused the collapse (not anyone who shorted the shares). I feel very sorry for the poor employees who have lost their jobs.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 26 Sep 13:02

The executives and board members involved in the so called merger with My Travel (Airtours as was way back) in 2007 did Thomas Cook no favours.

Questions should be asked of them.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 26 Sep 13:33

Just to be clear at no point do I say that it was the people shorting the company was thr reason that it failed. Doesnt change the fact I'd be interested to know if there were any links between the hedge funds making millions off the collapse of TC and the Conservative Government.

At least there has been some good news this morning. It looks like the German Government (2 world wars and 1 world cup muttha fukkas) have managed to find €384 million as a bridging loan saving over 4000 jobs (hopefully).

Can the folk on here saying the bail out wouldn't have worked please explain to me how it wouldn't have worked?
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 6 Oct 08:47

Heads up - for anybody interested.

Channel 4 tonight at 9pm.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: charlie1  
Date:   Sun 6 Oct 10:56

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sun 6 Oct 08:47

Heads up - for anybody interested.

Channel 4 tonight at 9pm.


It's 8pm
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 6 Oct 13:46

Well spotted Charlie.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 9 Oct 13:44

A little bit more good news. Hayes have bought all the TC stores from the liquidator and are looking to hire the TC staff back to run the stores again. Potentially 2,500 jobs being saved with some store opening as quickly as tomorrow.

It's almost like there was a viable business in there..
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 9 Oct 13:54

Or Hayes is taking a massive risk.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 9 Oct 14:11

It was the debt that was dragging the company down and the rescue deal contained a debt to equity conversion that would have helped to alleviate (not eradicate) the debt issues and Fosun were going to put additional cash in for a controlling stake of the business.

I'm not saying it was plain sailing but they were a £9 billion a year business being hamstrung by previous bad decisions.

The Government put in £1 trillion to the banking industry to bail out banks that were technically insolvent but hadn't run out of cash. The £200 million might never even have had to be touched as it was an insurance policy for the banks over the winter period.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 9 Oct 15:22

"A little bit more good news. Hayes have bought all the TC stores from the liquidator and are looking to hire the TC staff back to run the stores again. Potentially 2,500 jobs being saved with some store opening as quickly as tomorrow."

As I understand it, Hays Travel are only planning to open some stores - presumably the better performing ones.

They already have 190 shops, so obviously they'll not be interested in duplication in these locations.

Good news nevertheless.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 9 Oct 15:57

https://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?news_id=2039634&c=setreg®ion=2

Long term you might well be right as it wouldn't make sense to have two stores in one location unless they were both profitable and one store couldn't meet demand but according to the report I saw on TV and the summary in the link above it looks like they're going to try and reopen all of them. At least to start with.
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 9 Oct 22:47

A tidy wee rebrand and refit contract in the offing hopefully

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Thomas Cook
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Wed 9 Oct 23:11

Quote:

da_no_1, Wed 9 Oct 22:47

A tidy wee rebrand and refit contract in the offing hopefully


Aye if only there was a decent sized local shopfitter that could handle such a volume of work...
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