DAFC.net
Home 10 July 2020 
 Post Message  |  Top of Board  |  Go to Topic  |  Search  |  Twitter Updates  |  Log In   Forum Rules  |  Newer Topic  |  Older Topic  |  end 
[ please login to use the Like feature ]
 Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Wed 12 Feb 02:24

Ref: If I was God thread
PARrot |
Tue 11 Feb 23:46


I was hoping you’d join the fun.


<<< Both male and female????? Ye mean neither male nor female ya roaster. >>>


?????

No I mean male and female in character, not sexual, ya birdbrain. 😃

I suppose it’d be more accurate to say masculine and feminine.

In life, men and women are different in ways that are not just physical. Yes?

If our personality continues in afterlife, it must be as it was in life, masculine and feminine or we wouldn’t be the same people.

Jesus was a man – so he ought to still be masculine ?

And Jesus is God, hence God is part masculine.

There are feminine metaphors in the Bible which suggest God has feminine characteristics.

So God has masculine and feminine characteristics.

I'm just trying to understand the orthodox Christian view on this.

Have I got it right now?



Post Edited (Wed 12 Feb 02:33)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Wed 12 Feb 02:57

Ref: If I was God thread
PARrot
Tue 11 Feb 23:46

<<< I think if you were God you would have complete understanding of all the complexities and reasons why the bad stuff happens and you would follow exactly the same plan. Whatever that is. >>>

Whatever it is, it reflects badly on a God that there's no flexibility, no modification to the initial plan. And the fact that we humans are subject to the Law of the jungle just as are the other animals, suggests we were not designed or specially created. Rather it suggests a common ancestry and evolution.



Post Edited (Wed 12 Feb 13:22)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: Skerla  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 12:35

Wow
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 16:49

Ref: Skerla
Thu 13 Feb 12:35

<<< Wow>>>

= a wee dog's bark: 'Yes!'



Post Edited (Thu 13 Feb 23:55)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 13:49

Googled : Where is God?

Led to:

In a different dimension, ‘outside of time and space as we know it.’
https://www.everystudent.com/wires/finger.html

OK.

Does the Bible say so?

Googled: Does the Bible mention a dimension outside of space and time?

Led to:

‘Is God Outside of Time? Not According to the Bible’
https://kgov.com/is-god-outside-of-time

Quote:

‘Most Christian theologians join countless philosophers of the last 2,500 years in saying that God is outside of time…'

‘When Reading in the Greek, We See that God:

‘is timeless, atemporal and outside of time (etc.)
‘Of course NOT ONE of these phrases is in the Bible. They're from Plato. And the Platonists. For the Reformation broke with Rome, but not with Greece. So these philosophical terms are uncritically repeated by the Christian authors of typical systematic theology textbooks, and therefore, taught to young ministers in seminary.
In the section heading just above, the word Greek does not refer, as many would assume, to the text of the New Testament that was originally written in Greek. Rather, it was used to refer to pagan Greek philosophy, which insisted that God exists outside of time. In contrast, the Hebrew and Greek terms in the Bible about God and time are TOTALLY different and refer not to timelessness but to unending duration. The phrases in the Scriptures all speak of God existing through unending time and an everlasting duration. The above timelessness terms are foreign to the reader of God's Word, whereas the Bible's many terms, as listed below, are all so very familiar from our reading of Scripture.

When Reading the Bible, We See that God:

‘is - and was - and is to come - Whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting - Forever and ever’ (etc., more examples)
‘Of course ALL THESE are verbatim phrases from Scripture, some being repeated many times. NOT ONE MEANS TIMELESSNESS. Rather, they mean unending duration. So the Bible teaches the opposite of pagan Greek philosophy…’

My conclusions

Where is God?

a) In a different dimension, outside of time and space as we know it.

OR

b) Here, in our 3 dimensions.

I prefer b).

I’m not saying I’m a believer. I’m just saying, if I were to believe, I think b) makes better sense.

Any advance on b)?



Post Edited (Fri 14 Feb 13:54)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 14:31

Thanks for the no-likes. At least it's an opinion. I suppose the next stage would be a comment. I mean the thread is 'Discusiing....'
Come on man, spit it out! Get it off your chest for goodness sake. 😃

Of course I realise, discussing religion with religious folk is usually a no-no.
I used to enjoy a few ding-dongs wi' Richie though.

But there must be one or two non-religious or agnostics who have curiosity and opinions. And maybe even one religious who's got the time and inclination?

I know a fitba' forum is an unlikely place to try and discuss such things but I can't be bothered wi' 'Quora' and forums like that.

Is my tongue too raspy?

Anyway you can see from my last post that I thought - if the subject interests me that much I should do my own research. So I posted my findings on the off-chance.

Yes, I've been thinking lately, I should be nicer tae folk on here, just as I am in real life face to face. Ha! 😃

To post or not to post? Nothing ventured nothing gained.



Post Edited (Fri 14 Feb 14:31)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 14:41

For your half-time entertainment:




The More it Snows (Tiddely Pom)


The more it snows (Tiddely pom)
The more it goes (Tiddely pom)
The more it goes (Tiddely pom)
On snowing

And nobody knows (Tiddely pom)
How cold my toes (Tiddely pom)
How cold my toes (Tiddely pom)
Are growing


https://youtu.be/iWowM5FwIxg



Post Edited (Fri 14 Feb 14:45)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 22:27

I think the difference you are making is between Timelessness and Eternity but the Old Testament is not very interested in philosophical questions of this sort. The Vedas would be a better place to look for that kind of concept.

The Old Testament is a pretty dull, didactic plod through what was the oral history of the Jewish people written up by a religious elite during exile. Like any monotheistic tract it’s pretty thin gruel but Judaism and Christianity may differ from Islam in relation to the concept of time. I think Muslims consider that Allah already knows what their life will be, even although they have free will of course. Their life has already been decided, whereas in the Judeo/Christian tradition we consider the future to be more a blank sheet of paper.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 14:00

Ref: sammer
Fri 14 Feb 22:27

'Thin gruel' - I like that 😃

Thanks for the tip on the Vedas, but I'm going to try and get a satisfactory answer to 'Where is God?' first.

According to my research above, 'most Christian theologians' say 'God is outside of time.' i.e. not in our three dimensions?

Either I look on that as a cop-out, or I can go along with it and try to see it the way most Christian theologians do.

OK. From their point of view. if God existed before our universe he must have been outside of it and still is? So he's a superbeing, a vast store of knowledge and wisdom, outside of our universe.

That's a problem for me, because if God is spirit, or is 'A spirit', he's non-material.

Problem 1

How is God's knowledge and wisdom stored without material? Could it be by energy? Is spirit energy?

So if I'm going with the believers I have to accept

a) God is outside of our universe.
b) His vast knowledge and wisdom is stored in his non-material spirit, possibly in the form of energy?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 14:13

A non-Biblical 'God' need not assume vast knowledge and wisdom.

What if 'God' (non-Biblical, not a superbeing) is actually simply

the source of all energy?

Gravity and evolution took over from there?



Post Edited (Sat 15 Feb 14:17)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 17:27

That's in line with Buddhist thinking.

So far as I can gather there are three main concepts of Time.
1. The linear theory we were brought up under, whereby there was a God/Big Bang and the Universe has been expanding ever since, extending time.
2. Time is cyclical and although there may have been a Big Bang, that means there will at some point ahead be a 'Big Whimper' causing us all to live out time backwards. The process will then repeat itself endlessly, which means I have probably written this about 12 million times before.
3. Time is an illusion created in our own minds. The Universe just 'is' and always will be and exists with or without our narrative of time.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 21:12

Ref: onandupthepars
Sat 15 Feb 14:13

<<< A non-Biblical 'God' need not assume vast knowledge and wisdom.

What if 'God' (non-Biblical, not a superbeing) is actually simply

the source of all energy?

Gravity and evolution took over from there? >>>

Ref: sammer
Sat 15 Feb 17:27

<<< That's in line with Buddhist thinking. >>>

I didn't know that. I'm glad I'm not alone with my ideas.

Time. What is time?

How do you think of it, Sammer?

I think time doesn’t really exist. What exists is atoms and ‘stuff’ all constantly changing.
In one second there are zillions of changes to everything in the universe. So I don’t think time travel will be possible because you’d have to put everything back the way it was. We’re not on a film, it can’t just be wound back. I think many things are irreversible.

That’s why I don’t think we could live our lives backwards or over again.

I have sometimes wondered if all time is here now. But I like to think we’re only here once. I don’t want to be making the same mistakes again.



Post Edited (Sat 15 Feb 21:13)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 21:52

If the Universe were a closed system, a squash ball which expanded limitlessly 13 billion years ago before contracting sometime in the future, then it would be possible to retrace your steps exactly. Not a nice thought I grant you and one that flies in the face of our instincts as intelligent animals, ones who believe we have the freedom to carve out our own destiny.

The idea of Time being a construct created by we humans fits your last observation. We are here at any given moment in the here and now and that is Existence; all the rest- whether memories or future plans- is simply sentiment or propaganda. Live for the moment for there is no other moment guaranteed. Yet those who follow this philosophy tend to die young. Is old age a measure of a wasted life?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 22:27

<<<If the Universe were a closed system, a squash ball which expanded limitlessly 13 billion years ago before contracting sometime in the future, then it would be possible to retrace your steps exactly. >>>

I don't think the universe is comparable to a squash ball. 😃

The universe contains such a massive amount of stuff - zillions upon zillions of interactions, changes, movements etc in a single second. Multiply by 13+ billion years. To retrace would be exactly the same as creating everything in the first place only 'backwards'. All the energy that went into the universe would have to be re-applied. I mean think of our sun - gigatons? of hydrogen burnt in a second. It's just not possible to put all that energy back into it. That energy would have to come from somewhere else that's not our universe.

Even a squash ball can't be returned to exactly what it was a second ago. Some changes have taken place - molecules removed or whatever.

Anyway travelling back in time would I think, mean not just returning a small amount of stuff, say a room and it's contents to where it was, but everything in the universe to where and what it was. I don't have to tell you how vast the universe is.

'even if the Universe were to exist forever: space may expand faster than light can traverse it.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe

No honestly Sammer I wouldn't worry about that one.

<<< Live for the moment for there is no other moment guaranteed.>>>

You mean - make the most of each moment - yes it's true. I sometimes forget I could go any moment. Heart attack, stroke in the night. It's as well for us oldies to remember that and keep our papers and everything in order. I had a friend who went to work one day and never came home. I fear one day being whisked off to hospital and game over, leaving a house full of cr*p for my poor wife to deal with. Thanks for the reminder Sammer, got to get ship shape.

<<< Is old age a measure of a wasted life? >>>

No we've been lucky I reckon.😃

I think I should have made the title of this thread, 'Discussing issues of religion and whatever...'



Post Edited (Sat 15 Feb 22:32)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 01:35

I was re-thinking time travel.

If we wanted to go back to the Battle of Bannockburn, would we have to recreate the whole universe at that time? Up to now I thought so. But not sure now.

There's this problem though - we can't resurrect things that were living. All those folk, horses, trees, birds, grass - they're all dead. It's not just a case of putting all the atoms back to where they were at the time. All the living things are coofert.

So unless everything that's existed still exists somewhere (which I don't go along with - the past isn't a place, I'd say it's a previous state of Existence) I can't see how we could travel back in time.



Post Edited (Sun 16 Feb 01:37)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 08:53

Come on its obvious. We are a computer simulation. God is the current being who is playing. Since off them like a war here and there and others like peace. You don't die you are merely switched off or not renewed. A bit like Dallas and Dynasty.... :)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 09:17

Sometimes it seems that way, Movie. Mind, if that's the case, knowledge is power - maybe we can find a way to infiltrate and save the world! Dotnet stormtroopers of Reality here we come. Who should we switch off first? 😃



Post Edited (Sun 16 Feb 17:19)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 12:07

I'd switch off this guy:



Priorities!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 19:56



I had googled - 'The worlds's most useless person' - when I came across this, more interesting article:

'Nine Useless Body parts that Humans No Longer Need'

'Some human body parts have become useless over the past few million years.'

1 - Appendix
2 - A muscle from wrist to elbow (called palmaris longus)
3 - Wisdom teeth
4 - Goose pimple muscle fibres (arrector pili)
5 - Tail and tailbone (Tail usually vanishes before we're born but babies are sometimes born with a tail)
6 - Ear-moving muscles (auricular muscles)
7 - Lower abdominal muscle (pyramidalis)
8 - Male nipples
9 - Third eyelid (plica semilunaris)

I thought this was interesting relative to evolution (BTW I don't think any scientist these days believes Darwinian evolution is anything like the whole story).

I'm pretty certain Creationists have explanations for all of the above. Over to you, if you want to give your side of it.

source:https://www.businessinsider.com/human-useless-body-parts-2019-1?r=US&IR=T



Post Edited (Sun 16 Feb 20:05)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 21:04

onandupthepars .... I would love to have No. 6 ... ear moving muscles to impress my Granddaughter :-)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 21:26

Some folk can wiggle their ears a bit. I'm jealous.

I donno about you Busspass, but I can only raise my left eyebrow on it's own, can't raise the right without the left. Bet ye can't resist tryin' 😃

I wonder if I'm part Vulcan?



Post Edited (Sun 16 Feb 22:19)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Mon 17 Feb 10:28

About Current Evolution Theory


From what I've read on the Net and been told by Jehova Witnesses, I find that many Creationists seem to think Darwin's book, published in 1859, is all there is to evolution.

But current evolution theory is very different.

I haven't quite got a grasp of it yet but here's a wee taster:

It seems there was a development in the 1930s and 40s called the 'modern synthesis' which is itself long out of date.

Biologists are now striving for a post-modern synthesis to unite "all biological fields of research related to evolution, adaptation, and diversity in a single theoretical frame." This would include 'the disciplines of embryological developmental theory, morphology, and ecology, omitted from the out of date modern synthesis.

That's the easy bit. Now, not for the faint-hearted:


'There are two groups of challenges to the way the modern synthesis viewed inheritance. The first is that other modes such as epigenetic inheritance, phenotypic plasticity, the Baldwin effect, and the maternal effect allow new characteristics to arise and be passed on, and for the genes to catch up with the new adaptations later. The second is that all such mechanisms are part, not of an inheritance system, but a developmental system: the fundamental unit is not a discrete selfishly competing gene, but a collaborating system that works at all levels from genes and cells to organisms and cultures to guide evolution.'

Life and evolution theory have moved on a long, long way since 1859, when:

The Royal Navy launched a wooden three-decker ship, 'HMS Victoria'

Queen Victoria herself had another 42 years to serve as monarch

and a Penny savings bank opened in Leeds


So, it would help if defenders of evolution and Creationism alike would stop harping on about that old stuff.

Get with the new!😃


If anyone else could do a brief layperson's guide to current evolution theory or suggest recommended reading, I'd be grateful.

sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_synthesis_(20th_century)#Towards_a_replacement_synthesis
(sorry, don't know why this is failing to link)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1859

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1859_in_the_United_Kingdom



Post Edited (Mon 17 Feb 11:50)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Mon 17 Feb 11:50

For Your Entertainment: OAUTP's VIC AND BOB BUSHBABY SKETCH

CLICK:
https://youtu.be/t3gNMY8SeXo?t=17




Vic and Bob with masks on.



Bob - (sings) 'Bushbaby bushbaby
Give me a chance
Give me somethin' that
I can remember'

Vic - That was Beach baby.

Bob - Oh. I thought it was bushbaby. You're sure it was Beach baby?

Vic - I'm sure.

Bob - Because bushbaby is just as good. Better I'd say.

Vic - That's not the point.

Bob - What is the point?

Vic - The point is, the song you were singing was Beach baby.

Bob - How d'ye know. How d'ye know there's not another version - 'bushhbaby'.

Vic - Don't be daft. Who'd sing about that?

Bob - Well I would. Because I like bushbabies better than beach babies. What's
a beach baby anyway, a baby on a beach.

Vic - Yeh but not the kind you think.

Bob - What d'ye mean - ye mean there's other kinds o' babies. Well of course
there is, hundreds - thousands of different kinds o' babies. Anyone knows
that.

Vic - You don't.

Bob - I do.

Vic - You don't even know what a beach baby is.

Bob - I do. It's a baby on a beach.

Vic - It's not. We'll just have to agree to disagree,

Bob - How can we agree to disagree, we'll have to disagree to disagree, or else
we'd agree.

Vic - Oh you're hopeless.

Bob - You give up then?

Vic - No. Alright we'll disagree to disagree.

Bob - Yeh.

Vic - Yeh.

Bob - Bushbaby bushbaby...

Vic - Proper bonkers you are.


(Would have finished with them hitting each other with a frying pan but can't find the gif)



Post Edited (Mon 17 Feb 15:35)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 17 Feb 19:29


Makes ye think eh 🤣



[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Mon 17 Feb 23:36

Makes ye think what's a REAON ?

Suggestions:

a) seek medical care

b) Lie doon for a bit and chill:

https://youtu.be/-yXVufG5oV0



The best 'REA ON' I know.



Post Edited (Tue 18 Feb 00:04)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 17 Feb 23:45

Ha... Just noticed that.
That's a helluva typo lol.
P. S... I hate Chris Rea... Gimme some motorhead instead please... With a dash of Dio to send me off to sleep



[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Discussing issues of religion
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Tue 18 Feb 00:47

Dio, Motorhead - great music. Not so keen on the lyrics, but then I'd prefer most songs in a foreign language, better than hearing the same old words.

Except some tag lines which are superb e.g. 'The ace of spades', the rest sounds good in Japanese.
That goes for Rea as well. Apart from the line 'On the beach', the rest of that would be better in Italian.

Online translators in voice mode are fun.

John Smith's for me and a pint o' what you like Wid, Cheers!



Post Edited (Tue 18 Feb 00:50)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Top of Board  |  Forum List  |  Threaded View   Forum Rules  |  Newer Topic  |  Older Topic  |  end 


 Forum List  |  Need a Login? Register Here 
 User Login
 User Name:
 Password:
 Remember my login:
   
 Forgot Your Password?
Enter your email address or user name below and a new password will be sent to the email address associated with your profile.
Security : type 'pars' in the box:
email:
© 2020 -- DAFC.net